PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

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Adverse Effects
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PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by Adverse Effects » Mon, 26 Oct 2015, 04:38

agreed in trying to find an old system with a true comm port but there getting hard to find and there again you want win XP and back

i have 2 loner systems here that are XP and have true 9 pin comm ports on them if you need to borrow one i am happy to lone it to you even have a 12 inch LCD monitor if needed to go with it

i am on the south side of brisbane 14Km out just PM me if needed
Last edited by Adverse Effects on Sun, 25 Oct 2015, 17:40, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by fllniks » Mon, 26 Oct 2015, 04:47

Thanks very much Coulomb for the firmware links!

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Post by coulomb » Mon, 26 Oct 2015, 14:38

offgridQLD wrote: Looks like I Bricked it Image

It sounds like it's not bricked, and I suspect that the bootstrap loader (the flash code that talks to the PC program doing the firmware update) is somewhat separate from the firmware that gets updated.

But in case you really have bricked it, I have a solution. It's untested, but if you have a bricked PIP, then it sounds like an excellent guinea pig for my diabolic experiments Image

[ Edit: clarified "bootstrap loader". ]
Last edited by coulomb on Mon, 26 Oct 2015, 04:14, edited 1 time in total.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, PIP-4048MS inverter, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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offgridQLD
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Post by offgridQLD » Mon, 26 Oct 2015, 14:42

Image

Edit: Ok I see what your saying. Lets hope it isn't bricked and I will keep that in mind.

I will try a windows XP computer with a dedicated 9 pin serial port. I have other devices Selectronic inverter, motor timing adjuster and a few other things that use software disks written in the windows XP days that use serial coms. They don't work as nice after I upgraded my new PC's to later operating systems using serial to usb adapters.

So investing in a dedicated old school XP area PC/Laptop with a 9 pin serial port might be a good idea. I always liked the Panasonic tough books but they were always silly expensive new. Though old 2nd hand XP vintage are reasonable now days.

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Mon, 26 Oct 2015, 16:04, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by rinaldoparaipan » Tue, 27 Oct 2015, 02:32

Hello everyone.
It seems that the new type of 4048MS(which is build in a new case, without the black heatsink at the upper side)has problems with the 3300uF capacitors.
I had problems with my inverter, a friend of mine has the same fault: with only 500W load the inverter collapsed after 5min.The capacitors exploded and the device stopped functioning.
Image

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Post by paulvk » Tue, 27 Oct 2015, 02:43

Is it the only solar charger in the system?

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Post by rinaldoparaipan » Tue, 27 Oct 2015, 03:10

Yes, is the only one.

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Post by paulvk » Tue, 27 Oct 2015, 03:23

What type of batteries are you using.

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Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 27 Oct 2015, 03:30

So no big black heat sink up the top to cool the MPPT solar charge controller.

How is the solar charge controller cooled then?

Edit: Or is it only a PWM solar charge controller so not as much heat to deal with Like the MPPT models.

Kurt


Last edited by offgridQLD on Mon, 26 Oct 2015, 16:33, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by paulvk » Tue, 27 Oct 2015, 03:37

My unit is not getting hot at all even with 60amps of solar so the heat sink has to be overkill.

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offgridQLD
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Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 27 Oct 2015, 03:45

Are you sure it's MPPT and not PWM. If it's MPPT there has to be some kind of aluminum block at the top perhaps just with no fins?

There would have to be some way to dissipate heat from the Mosfets.

Pics would be great.

Kurt
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Post by paulvk » Tue, 27 Oct 2015, 03:49

My ones are the units with the heat sinks on the top but only get warm even at 60amps they are MPPT units.

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Post by rinaldoparaipan » Tue, 27 Oct 2015, 04:23

The unit is MPPT.When I opened the box i thought that is a wrong delivery, but the label is MS 4048.MPP solar confirmed that they changed the case after July 2015.
The problem is the MPPT board, the compacted construction and the capacitors very close to the heatsink.

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Post by fllniks » Tue, 27 Oct 2015, 06:17

It will be best if you can click a pic of the unit and side sticker on the right side of the inverter. Post those pictures here.

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Post by rinaldoparaipan » Tue, 27 Oct 2015, 07:05

Here are the picturesImageImage

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Post by paulvk » Tue, 27 Oct 2015, 15:40

It looks like a different MPPT unit I wonder if the older ones are capable of much higher currents.
All the rest looks the same.
You sill have not said what type of battery, is it lead acid or something else.
The two caps that have gone would be across the battery and at 63volts I think there is a need to keep the system at 58v max I have set my ones to 56v when the warranties are up I will be changing them to 100v.

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Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 27 Oct 2015, 16:03

Interesting,
            Thanks for the pics. I wonder if the decision to use a thin strip of aluminum plate at the MPPT charge controller as the heat sink was a cost cutting decision (BIG heat sinks are expensive)

As others have mentioned, what size and kind of battery are you using. How much solar do you have connected and at what voltage?

Also how old is the unit (how long has it been in service)?

Kurt

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Post by paulvk » Tue, 27 Oct 2015, 18:38

Looking through the posts I do not see mention of M.E.N http://www.eece.uwa.edu.au/students/saf ... rthing-cpd
I just wonder if those with these units have paid attention to this.
Here we have an example of what can be required as the relay switching in the units leaves the neutral floating
http://www.aeesolar.com/how-stationary- ... ems-differ

If used as off grid with generator the M.E.N should as the article says be in the distribution board of the system.
Might be something to get the sparky to do when they are installed

Note The generator start relay output can be used to operate the relay.
Last edited by paulvk on Tue, 27 Oct 2015, 07:42, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by rinaldoparaipan » Tue, 27 Oct 2015, 22:51

The battery are lead acid Banner Energy-Made in Austria-8 pcs 12V 230Ah.
I set the absorbtion voltage at 57V.The first inverter failed after 10 days of use, without any high loads-maximum 3000W.
The second one is connected with Sunlight gel batteries, 16 pcs 12V 100Ah and failed after 5min Image ,with 500W load.
Both of them had 2760W PV pannels, 4strings of 3 in series(Voc=38.7V, Pmax=230W)
The Jamicon caps 3300uF/63V are probably "custom made" because I have not found the same size(diameter/high).I replaced with Rubicon.
I had installed more than 10 pcs (the old "style", 4048MS and 2424 MSX) and I had no problems with them.

Here are my achievements
www.ecowindsolar.ro
LE Sorry for my English, as you see, I am from Romania.
Last edited by rinaldoparaipan on Tue, 27 Oct 2015, 11:55, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by offgridQLD » Fri, 30 Oct 2015, 02:40

"It sounds like it's not bricked, and I suspect that the bootstrap loader (the flash code that talks to the PC program doing the firmware update) is somewhat separate from the firmware that gets updated."

Yes not bricked.

I got my hands on a old dell laptop with a 9 pin serial and xp pro. Worked perfect first try. Image

New firmware 72 40 looks to run fine on my PIP

Thanks for the tips guys.

Kurt

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Post by paulvk » Fri, 30 Oct 2015, 03:00

When you loaded the new firmware exactly how was your inverter set up I want to update my ones.

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Post by offgridQLD » Fri, 30 Oct 2015, 03:07

Inverter was powered up (with dc battery only) the units on/off switch was in the on position.

Had the included serial cable directly from the laptop to the inverter then ran the program (port 1) and just let it run.

Took about 5 mins. a audio chime plays and it displays successful. Then you will see the display on the inverter light up as it comes to life.


Instructions are included in the folder when you download the new driver.

Kurt
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Post by paulvk » Sat, 31 Oct 2015, 18:38

I have a question for those that have taken their units apart and looked closely at the circuit and components as I still have warranty I have not completely pulled my ones appart.
Other than the 63V capacitors is there any reason it could not go to 62volts ?
I know its firmware will not but what about the components on the DC side.

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Post by coulomb » Sun, 08 Nov 2015, 15:12

paulvk wrote: Other than the 63V capacitors is there any reason it could not go to 62volts ?
I know its firmware will not but what about the components on the DC side.

There is the voltage rating of the DC side MOSFETs. According to the "repairing service guide", these are supplied as 11-320110-00G or IR/IRFB3307ZPBF which are 120 A and 75 V rated. 75 V does not leave a whole lot of headroom for inductive spikes.

According to this post by Solamahn, later models are supplied with higher current MOSFETs, but still 75 V or 80 V rated.

If you routinely need to run your DC side at 62 volts, I'd suggest replacing those MOSFETs with at least 100 V rated parts. Weber posted about upgrading MOSFETs as well as capacitors here.
Last edited by coulomb on Sun, 08 Nov 2015, 04:44, edited 1 time in total.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, PIP-4048MS inverter, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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coulomb
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Post by coulomb » Sun, 08 Nov 2015, 15:41

Adverse Effects wrote: i would try to find a win XP desktop (not laptop) and give it another go

everything after XP seems to do stupid things with USB that makes it unstable for comms type of things like updating firmware's ...

Interesting. But Weber and I flashed an older (2013?) PIP yesterday with a Prolific USB to serial converter and Windows 10 twice, without a problem. It was plenty slow; about 10 blocks per second and over 7 minutes for the complete update. But it's a big update (some 224 kiB, less some unused space), so that's expected over a slow serial link. The Prolific is the $30 model from Jaycar.

We did it twice because we first tried the 52.30 update, then the 72.40. (These numbers refer to the firmware version number, which can be read from the LCD display menu.) These later firmware updates are not recommended for pre-2014 hardware, since it assumes higher current capable hardware. It looks so far that setting the maximum mains and total charging current to 30 A is sufficient to protect the older hardware from overload. That's not to say that there won't be problems later on. We may put the original firmware (52.02) back again later.

So it looks like some USB to serial devices will work with updating, and some won't. The Prolifics are generally not regarded as the best USB to serial converters, especially if timing is critical. I'm told that converters based on FTDI or Silicon Labs chips, which cost a bit more, are required when timing is critical. It's pleasing to see that they seem to work for firmware updating.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, PIP-4048MS inverter, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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