Where are the maglev trains?

[Revlac]

Some time back they built a rail line between Brisbane and the airport, a nice direct trip, turned out too expensive for most people to use, it ran almost empty for some time, a bit like these toll roads that are avoided as much as possible.
A tunnel under Brisbane river and others, convenient for some and expensive, not used for others, I used to take a train into Brisbane show, the price was acceptable until you have to go in as a family, not doing that again better to travel by car and far more convenient if rest stop's are needed or end up going somewhere else due to circumstances.
Even now they run public transport at a loss, they are getting some more people on public transport, it will have to be paid for later in some way of form.


The Idea is fine, just that those who run the transport will always stuff it up.

Many people can kick a tin around and eventually an idea will come out of it, sometimes from others that are watching.
And something should have been done about the overuse of aircraft long ago, taking passengers away from that would be a good thing...just my thought's

[eddyb]

Some time back they built a rail line between Brisbane and the airport, a nice direct trip, turned out too expensive for most people to use, it ran almost empty for some time, a bit like these toll roads that are avoided as much as possible.
A tunnel under Brisbane river and others, convenient for some and expensive, not used for others, I used to take a train into Brisbane show, the price was acceptable until you have to go in as a family, not doing that again better to travel by car and far more convenient if rest stop's are needed or end up going somewhere else due to circumstances.
Even now they run public transport at a loss, they are getting some more people on public transport, it will have to be paid for later in some way of form.


The Idea is fine, just that those who run the transport will always stuff it up.

Many people can kick a tin around and eventually an idea will come out of it, sometimes from others that are watching.
And something should have been done about the overuse of aircraft long ago, taking passengers away from that would be a good thing...just my thought's

I know many truckies that avoid toll roads where possible and those that use them just put the extra on what you buy at the supermarket because supermarkets do not vote.

The only way people like my sister who love planes will ever go in a train is if it is cheaper and the only way to do that is to pay for the construction with overnight container trains that can beat any truck by at least 8 hours.

With train drivers always going on strike you only have to be caught out once and it is back to the car but as the SC maglev will have little maintenance and no drivers it will be very reliable.

We need a federal government that is bold enough to connect Melbourne to Brisbane with a SC maglev via Albury, Canberra, Sydney, Newcastle, and Coffs harbour rather than one that tries to buy your vote with a few cents off your beer.

[T1 Terry]

You not only want to put truck drivers out of work, you want to do the same with train drivers? I'll put money on the fact you will never get it off the ground ..... or the first shovel of dirt turned in the case. Take the trucks off the Hume Hwy alone will end a number of small towns and owner operated truck stops, the fuel industry will block you, the unions will block you ..... and that would include the Transport Workers Union, so even if you did get it up and running, truck drivers would boycott the facility unless you had the TWU onside ..... In fact, you wouldn't even be able to get the materials to site to build the thing in the first place.

T1 Terry

[eddyb]

You not only want to put truck drivers out of work, you want to do the same with train drivers? I'll put money on the fact you will never get it off the ground ..... or the first shovel of dirt turned in the case. Take the trucks off the Hume Hwy alone will end a number of small towns and owner operated truck stops, the fuel industry will block you, the unions will block you ..... and that would include the Transport Workers Union, so even if you did get it up and running, truck drivers would boycott the facility unless you had the TWU onside ..... In fact, you wouldn't even be able to get the materials to site to build the thing in the first place.

T1 Terry

There would be winners and losers but overall people would be better off particularly the following generations with global warming.

[eddyb]

To encourage the use of electric semitrailers perhaps they could be toll free so with out of hours empty roads and no queuing up to load or unload the container the electric semitrailers would be twice as efficient.

[eddyb]

At 600 km/h containers could not have curtain sides like these B doubles.
https://youtu.be/PicdjnK0tjE

Some customers would have a dock to back the skeletal on and others would prefer to drop the container like this.
https://youtu.be/9J73fxsN4Lg

[eddyb]

When they rebuild the northbound Gundagai bridge to allow A doubles to use it then they will need to have loading docks instead of tautliner B doubles.

A double Pantech.
https://youtu.be/4zsALxkD5Us?t=55

Gundagai bridge.
https://www.infrastructureaustralia.gov ... ay-upgrade

Loading dock.
https://youtu.be/sPkjq5skZUM

[eddyb]

I looked at a Sydney to Melbourne dash cam video for old times sake and noticed every truck was a curtain sider B double and this made me wonder if A doubles, possibly with containers, will be all the go once they build a new northbound bridge at Gundagai.

This would mean changing many sheds to loading docks like this.
https://youtu.be/JKmpSpeCecI?t=149

[eddyb]

Overnight container trains only work over 1,000 kilometres and the main reason is to subsidise daytime fares below planes.

In a democracy it is just as cheap and more secure to have the SC maglev in a 14m diameter tunnel which will allow 600 km/h

[eddyb]

Could Utopian thinking save democracy.

https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/ ... /104522810

[eddyb]

The daytime SC maglev is always the same price and unaffected by weather.

https://www.escape.com.au/news/are-auss ... 2606d3c7ab

[eddyb]

I have always worried about Trumps bitcoin love and thought gold was safer until I saw this thing on trying to hide it from Hitler.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waZtO35-RG8

Connecting Sydney to Melbourne would be a monopoly without inflation and it only has to keep prices below trucks and planes, although at present it would only recover 2% of the construction cost but this would increase with inflation.

Because so many people are interested in a maglev between Sydney and Melbourne perhaps private investors may do it with Bitcoin.

[T1 Terry]

Can't see that happening. Bit Coin investors are in the majority looking for that fast buck, buy low and sell high. The others have invested early and know that in the long term, their investment will remain better than inflation or bank interest.
Governments are the only ones that invest in infrastructure that never really pays its way, they look at the benefit to the state or nation rather than short term profits.

For a govt department to take it on, it would have had to be a failure in at least 3 other countries, politician's are the only ones who believe that doing the same thing repeatedly will not always end up the same way .... because they are smarter and want to prove to the rest of the world that they can make it work ......
Private enterprise looks at how much pushback they will see compared to how much money they can make in the short term ..... far too much pushback every step of the way for private enterprise to even consider it ....
Can you imagine a private enterprise taking on Snowy 2.0? Everyone involved knew it couldn't be built for the estimated cost and no where near enough bore drilling had been done along the planned route ..... only a govt would take on a project like that, simply because those in charged didn't understand the complexity of just what was involved. To have a sink hole 500 mtrs from where they started boring was a clear indication that not near enough prep work had been done, but they blundered on regardless .....

You are talking about building the same sort of thing, you have to remember that a lot of Australia was under the sea for a very long time, it required a lot of geological movement and the oceans to recede for it to become dry land, a lot of those sandhills are trapped under a lot of rock, a lot of water still flowing under a lot of rock, check out all the cave formations all through the area you plan to tunnel bore, the Shoalhaven River is just one of the many that flow underground through the cave systems, before it falls out of a cliff face to flow above ground .... Lake George is one of those mystery lakes that fill from no where and drain much the same way, who knows how much water from all the dams across the escarpment have filled caverns underground, through the area you feel they should bore a tunnel ......

T1 Terry

[eddyb]

I know Australia is sending money overseas to make a quick buck but start-ups generally get opposition very quickly where a maglev connecting Sydney to Melbourne would be a maintenance free monopoly that increases return every year.

Regarding Snowy 2, all the bells and whistles plus pressure from greenies it was guaranteed to blow out.

I have always believed if is deep enough for long enough it turns to rock but you may know something that I don’t but am very interested in what you say.

[Revlac]

The infrastructure requirement is massive and not something that can be just thrown together, it requires town planning to have it planned 15 to 20 years, then some contractors will get some info on it so as to go and acquire land an other resources long before the public would even hear about it, I have seen it happen, the public can have the opportunity to object or ask for amendments, but the plan is already in place and will go-ahead despite any massive objection.

Not trying to start a debate, just pointing out that its a long drawn out process.
This is the section of the railway plan that is about 12km away from me, thats the only reason I looked, It was over 10 years ago some of the local were told about the rail line and thus land was sold divided and acquired, more to the story but not going to bother.

https://maps.inlandrail.com.au/c2k#/

There is about 3 bridges just in this area.

[eddyb]

The infrastructure requirement is massive and not something that can be just thrown together, it requires town planning to have it planned 15 to 20 years, then some contractors will get some info on it so as to go and acquire land an other resources long before the public would even hear about it, I have seen it happen, the public can have the opportunity to object or ask for amendments, but the plan is already in place and will go-ahead despite any massive objection.

Not trying to start a debate, just pointing out that its a long drawn out process.
This is the section of the railway plan that is about 12km away from me, thats the only reason I looked, It was over 10 years ago some of the local were told about the rail line and thus land was sold divided and acquired, more to the story but not going to bother.

https://maps.inlandrail.com.au/c2k#/

There is about 3 bridges just in this area.

Ha ha it sounds like the California HSR joke where everybody has input and that is why it is cheaper to do it underground as well as being more secure it is less disruptive and nobody even sees it.

Getting China to build it from launch shaft compounds balances up our trade with them and they will not need the bells and whistles needed to encourage workers to live there rather than travel on icy roads.

If we become a customer of China we can save a lot on defence and as they have the most TBM expertise in the world they could drive a 14m diameter tunnel Sydney to Melbourne in two years with allowing the proven SC maglev to then be installed

[T1 Terry]

How deep were you thinking of tunnelling? Even the Bungonia caves have never been dug out to see if they continue deeper, the sinkhole, a collapsed cave system, has passages in the lower sections that have never really been explored .... or not made public anyway
When they did test drillings in a section of the Snowy 2.0 that they previously had found soft soil, they had water and moving mud blast back out of the test bore hole ..... that wasn't there the last time they drilled ..... The cost started at $2 billion and would be completed in 2021, and everyone gasped, it's now at $12 billion and climbing because they are planning to bring in 4th tunnel boring machine .... I wonder where they plan to bury that one The optimistic guess for completion is now 2028 .... what renewable energy and energy storage could have been built and now operational for the $12 billion and climbing price tag?

It was insane election time nonsense noise that should have died when the Turnbull govt was defeated, the same as the Maldon/Dombarton rail link ...... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kj8wwcM70xk ........ Will Snowy 2.0 end up the same as the Maldon/Dombarton link a huge white elephant?

Can you see why the high speed rail link you are proposing will never happen in our life time?

T1 Terry

[eddyb]

How deep were you thinking of tunnelling? Even the Bungonia caves have never been dug out to see if they continue deeper, the sinkhole, a collapsed cave system, has passages in the lower sections that have never really been explored .... or not made public anyway
When they did test drillings in a section of the Snowy 2.0 that they previously had found soft soil, they had water and moving mud blast back out of the test bore hole ..... that wasn't there the last time they drilled ..... The cost started at $2 billion and would be completed in 2021, and everyone gasped, it's now at $12 billion and climbing because they are planning to bring in 4th tunnel boring machine .... I wonder where they plan to bury that one The optimistic guess for completion is now 2028 .... what renewable energy and energy storage could have been built and now operational for the $12 billion and climbing price tag?

It was insane election time nonsense noise that should have died when the Turnbull govt was defeated, the same as the Maldon/Dombarton rail link ...... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kj8wwcM70xk ........ Will Snowy 2.0 end up the same as the Maldon/Dombarton link a huge white elephant?

Can you see why the high speed rail link you are proposing will never happen in our life time?

T1 Terry

There is a certain amount of risk in investment that is why people only try crazy things in time of war but with batteries too heavy and hydrogen too hard, eliminating trucks and planes on this route with a proven SC maglev will reduce prices on the shelf with increased productivity.

Snowy 2 may work well with HVDC cables in it if we start the tunnel ASAP to save the Humelink overhead wires.

I once read it is better for the people who drive the tunnel also to design the segments and with this in mind I think China should design it in consultation with Australia.

Neville Wran stopped Maldon/Dombarton when the bottom dropped out of the coal market so I suppose he thought it was a good idea when he started it.

[T1 Terry]

How deep were you thinking of tunnelling? Even the Bungonia caves have never been dug out to see if they continue deeper, the sinkhole, a collapsed cave system, has passages in the lower sections that have never really been explored .... or not made public anyway
When they did test drillings in a section of the Snowy 2.0 that they previously had found soft soil, they had water and moving mud blast back out of the test bore hole ..... that wasn't there the last time they drilled ..... The cost started at $2 billion and would be completed in 2021, and everyone gasped, it's now at $12 billion and climbing because they are planning to bring in 4th tunnel boring machine .... I wonder where they plan to bury that one The optimistic guess for completion is now 2028 .... what renewable energy and energy storage could have been built and now operational for the $12 billion and climbing price tag?

It was insane election time nonsense noise that should have died when the Turnbull govt was defeated, the same as the Maldon/Dombarton rail link ...... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kj8wwcM70xk ........ Will Snowy 2.0 end up the same as the Maldon/Dombarton link a huge white elephant?

Can you see why the high speed rail link you are proposing will never happen in our life time?

T1 Terry

There is a certain amount of risk in investment that is why people only try crazy things in time of war but with batteries too heavy and hydrogen too hard, eliminating trucks and planes on this route with a proven SC maglev will reduce prices on the shelf with increased productivity.

Snowy 2 may work well with HVDC cables in it if we start the tunnel ASAP to save the Humelink overhead wires.

I once read it is better for the people who drive the tunnel also to design the segments and with this in mind I think China should design it in consultation with Australia.

Neville Wran stopped Maldon/Dombarton when the bottom dropped out of the coal market so I suppose he thought it was a good idea when he started it.

Nick Greiner killed the Maldon Dombarton rail link, not Neville Wran ..... and he paid out all the contracts even though they didn't complete the work They ignored the stress it would put on the road network when the Balmain coal loader closes and the Glebe Island grain terminal closed ... it was basically a case of killing off any projects the Labor govt started.

Even though so much of it is still there, the corridor is still there, 1 bridge and one tunnel to finish the project, but since 1988 it has had more money spent of feasibility studies than what it would have cost to finish it, but it still remains unfinished.

The rail line from Ouyen through to Tailem Bend in South Australia, sits idle, because some one decided it would be easier to truck the grain rather than rail, even though everything is set up all the way along the rail line for it to continue to be transported by rail. The end result is a heap of dead towns now the silos are no longer operating .....

Don't confuse sensible with the way govts operate, the palm greasing and on going political party funding for both sides would be cost prohibitive to break the grip those who benefit from the road transport remaining already have on govts.

Did you watch the video, they even mentioned using the route for a mag lev ultra fast line to link Syd, Wollongong and Canberra, but John Howard knocked it on the head .... because, yet again, it was a Labor initiative and "he wasn't going to fund that sort of risky unproven technology"

T1 Terry

[eddyb]

Terry thanks for the information I remember it was about the same time the valley coal mines were shut and it is cheaper to use Newcastle port to export coal and diesel trains could not go through the non ventilated tunnel and there was insufficient power for electric trains for loaded container trains.

What you say about governments wanting to change things is true and that is why I suggest connecting Sydney to Melbourne with SC maglev in three years although I believe it would have support from everybody.

[T1 Terry]

Even if, some how, you get it built and running, doesn't mean it will keep running https://www.autoevolution.com/news/aban ... tml#agal_0

T1 Terry

[eddyb]

Even if, some how, you get it built and running, doesn't mean it will keep running https://www.autoevolution.com/news/aban ... tml#agal_0

T1 Terry

The problem with the German one in China is it only has one cm clearance and as it impossible to keep it dead level it has been slowed due to rocking.

The problem with the one in Japan is the same as the Californian HSR with huge opposition from everybody particularly the Japanese communist party.

The problem with a SC maglev in Australia is overcome with overnight container trains earning sufficient to always keep the daytime fares below planes.

[eddyb]

I know China observer is always bagging China but this video shows how broke China is and it may be the best time to use their TBM expertise to drive Sydney to Melbourne privately using bitcoin as Australian governments like to keep a low profile.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Otz43CL2R2s

[T1 Terry]

If you can build it to run between Syd and Perth, or even Adelaide and Perth, you would have a winner. Use the money from that to build a second parallel line, and WA could lose it's Wait A While Tag, then with the money and proof on concept, build the same thing from Adelaide to Darwin where the big Chinese shipping port is located.

The aera you want to build a tunnel to house a train through mountains, is not really stable enough, but a tube train above ground, that would be a winner.
Cameras on the outside of the tube sending video of what can be seen outside the tube and a separate viewing/lounge car, for the tourist trains, very fast freight for the container trains ..... and you might just get the project off the ground.
I'm sure you would find private investors and superfunds interested in such a project .....

T1 Terry

[eddyb]

If you can build it to run between Syd and Perth, or even Adelaide and Perth, you would have a winner. Use the money from that to build a second parallel line, and WA could lose it's Wait A While Tag, then with the money and proof on concept, build the same thing from Adelaide to Darwin where the big Chinese shipping port is located.

The aera you want to build a tunnel to house a train through mountains, is not really stable enough, but a tube train above ground, that would be a winner.
Cameras on the outside of the tube sending video of what can be seen outside the tube and a separate viewing/lounge car, for the tourist trains, very fast freight for the container trains ..... and you might just get the project off the ground.
I'm sure you would find private investors and superfunds interested in such a project .....

T1 Terry

The only way a SC maglev would get rid of trucks and planes is if it has overnight container trains and this is only viable over 1,000 kilometres and if there is sufficient demand.