Soyachips’ Electric FZR250

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soyachips
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Re: Soyachips’ Electric FZR250

Post by soyachips » Mon, 14 Oct 2019, 20:27

Richo wrote:
Mon, 14 Oct 2019, 12:33
4 x headway is 12.8V nominal and 14.6V charged.
So anything from 13V-14V is ok.
Most of that would be for the headlight+brake light.

So 100-150W for a DC-DC?
Thanks, I was wondering what sort of power I should get.

Any ideas where to get a reasonably priced isolated DC-DC converter?

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Re: Soyachips’ Electric FZR250

Post by Richo » Tue, 15 Oct 2019, 13:13

Ah I had a quick look yesterday but your main traction pack doesn't fit into the universal input AC supplies.
So you need an isolated dedicated DC/DC - not just an AC/DC with DC shoved into it.
That makes it a bit more expensive.
So the short answer is NO but the long answer is YES.
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Re: Soyachips’ Electric FZR250

Post by Richo » Tue, 15 Oct 2019, 13:17

24 cells in series so the input range of the DC-DC needs to be ~60V-87.6V with ~13.8V out preferably with constant current.
So the short answer is NO but the long answer is YES.
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Re: Soyachips’ Electric FZR250

Post by Richo » Tue, 15 Oct 2019, 13:27

Under heavy loads the headway go down to 2V so the minimum should be 48V.
So the short answer is NO but the long answer is YES.
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Re: Soyachips’ Electric FZR250

Post by brendon_m » Tue, 15 Oct 2019, 17:27


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Re: Soyachips’ Electric FZR250

Post by Richo » Tue, 15 Oct 2019, 18:20

Mmm that would do most of it.

It's not quite specific under heavy load.
eg the "12V" battery is flat and could take an 8A charge.
Add on the headlights and brake lights and you have a 16A draw.
Meanwell Datasheet wrote:Normally works within 150% rated power for more than 3 seconds and then constant current protection 105-135% rated output power with auto-recovery
I'd want to see when an excessive load is applied if it stays in constant current mode.

The only other solution I can come up with so far is to use a boost circuit to get the traction pack to 120Vdc and then run a CC+CV power supply such as the ELG-150-12A.
So the short answer is NO but the long answer is YES.
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Re: Soyachips’ Electric FZR250

Post by brendon_m » Tue, 15 Oct 2019, 20:34

I haven't stress tested it fully but I have had mine running 2 x 60w halogen lights, 2x 5w park lights and then assorted rear LEDs / indicators- didn't burst into flames.
Ill disconnect the battery this weekend and see what does on overload.

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Re: Soyachips’ Electric FZR250

Post by soyachips » Tue, 15 Oct 2019, 20:52

Sorry @Richo can you explain what this means?
Richo wrote:
Tue, 15 Oct 2019, 13:13
Ah I had a quick look yesterday but your main traction pack doesn't fit into the universal input AC supplies.

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Re: Soyachips’ Electric FZR250

Post by soyachips » Tue, 15 Oct 2019, 21:02

I actually ordered this one from AliExpress

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3288813 ... 4c4dH6UCry

I'm using 4 x 10ah Headway cells as my 12V battery so I'm assuming that handles most of the load and the converter just helps to keep the cells charged. I tried to find one with 13.8V output but couldn't find one that was also isolated.

I'm now wondering if this means the battery won't really get charged properly by the converter and I'll need to charge that up as well as the traction pack on a regular basis ... or keep looking for a better converter.

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Re: Soyachips’ Electric FZR250

Post by soyachips » Tue, 15 Oct 2019, 21:04

brendon_m wrote:
Tue, 15 Oct 2019, 17:27
I used this
https://au.element14.com/mean-well/ddr- ... dp/3002980

Its 67.2v to 154v
That's looks great. Will keep it in mind if mine doesn't work out!

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Re: Soyachips’ Electric FZR250

Post by soyachips » Tue, 15 Oct 2019, 21:09

Also just got the rear brake bracket back from 3DHubs ... super impressed with the part and can't wait to put it into the bike!

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Re: Soyachips’ Electric FZR250

Post by francisco.shi » Wed, 16 Oct 2019, 03:21

How much did it cost to make the part from 3Dhubs and how long did it take?

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Re: Soyachips’ Electric FZR250

Post by Richo » Wed, 16 Oct 2019, 12:51

Richo wrote:
Tue, 15 Oct 2019, 13:13
...traction pack doesn't fit into the universal input AC supplies.
soyachips wrote:
Tue, 15 Oct 2019, 20:52
...can you explain what this means?
Sure.
Most universal power supplies are say 90Vac-270Vac.
BUT they can accept DC as well.
So this would mean 127Vdc-382Vdc.
People who have converted a car and have 144Vdc can use off the shelf power supplies that have a universal input for the DC/DC.

Your pack voltage is too low so the only way to use a universal input power supply is to "preboost" it up to say 130V.
They're not off the shelf either.
So it would be just the same to make an isolated buck converter with current regulation and bypass the boost+ universal input DC/DC.
So the short answer is NO but the long answer is YES.
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Re: Soyachips’ Electric FZR250

Post by Richo » Wed, 16 Oct 2019, 12:59

soyachips wrote:
Tue, 15 Oct 2019, 21:02
I actually ordered this one from AliExpress
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3288813 ... 4c4dH6UCry
Yeah I did see those.
But at 12V the battery will always be "flat".
The nominal 20-80% is 3.2V so 3.0V will be in the last 20% of the cell capacity.
It also has no current limiting.

I have tested similar models before and it had an issue with low input voltage would cause it to draw excessive current and not output 12V. (Fails to start)
Gets really hot and I'm assuming would eventually die.

It'll get you started but I'd suggest organising an alternative soon.
So the short answer is NO but the long answer is YES.
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Re: Soyachips’ Electric FZR250

Post by soyachips » Wed, 16 Oct 2019, 15:02

Doh! At least it wasn’t too expensive :?

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Re: Soyachips’ Electric FZR250

Post by soyachips » Wed, 16 Oct 2019, 15:07

francisco.shi wrote:
Wed, 16 Oct 2019, 03:21
How much did it cost to make the part from 3Dhubs and how long did it take?
It would have been around $320 but I paid extra to get it done quickly so ended up being $370 and took 2 weeks.

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Re: Soyachips’ Electric FZR250

Post by soyachips » Sun, 20 Oct 2019, 19:23

Made some more progress over the last week or two
  • Added BMS leads
  • Installed rear brake caliper bracket
  • Finished the bracket on the back of the battery pack and installed it
  • Temporary plate to hold the controller. Still working out where this will go and how to keep it cool.
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Re: Soyachips’ Electric FZR250

Post by Richo » Mon, 21 Oct 2019, 12:54

Squze my ignorance - what is this for?
Do the washers go on later?

Image
So the short answer is NO but the long answer is YES.
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Re: Soyachips’ Electric FZR250

Post by soyachips » Mon, 21 Oct 2019, 13:28

The certifying engineer suggested I use something to isolate vibration from the frame to the batteries so I'm using a couple of sway bar bushes that the original engine mounting bolts will go through to hold the box.

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Re: Soyachips’ Electric FZR250

Post by soyachips » Wed, 23 Oct 2019, 15:48

I'm trying to get the bike ready to show at EV Expo in Sydney this weekend so got some more work done yesterday. Made a plate to mount a waterproof box to hold things like 12V battery, contactor, fuse and other bits and pieces. Most of the high voltage stuff is in and wired up so its mostly the 12V bits to get it running. I've had trouble finding a wiring diagram for the bike so it may take some time to work out. After the expo I'll take it all apart again and do things properly before it's really done so this is kind of a practice run putting it all together!

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Re: Soyachips’ Electric FZR250

Post by boars » Thu, 31 Oct 2019, 08:41

That looks awesome, cannot wait to see what sort of speed and range you can get out of that - this sort of conversion is very much up my alley if a bike manufacturer doesn't drop something in AU soon. Starting to get really desperate for an electric motorbike.

Had a Stealth bomber for a while which was fantastic fun off-road, a proper motorbike is the next logical step :mrgreen:

I'm currently tossing up between a QS 8000W and QS 14000W - the price jump is jaw dropping but I need to maintain highway speeds for 20km and I'm not sure a 8k is up to the task without overheating in qld heat?

Looking forward to more updates and seeing how fast you can push that hub. :mrgreen:

I don't suppose you know anyone that fabricates/modifies swingarms for this sort of application do you? Although looks like you just did it yourself? Would that I had the tools.
Contemplating converting a Mito Cagiva - since they're super light and happen to share visual DNA with one of the all time sexiest bikes (in my opinion) the Ducati 916.

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Re: Soyachips’ Electric FZR250

Post by soyachips » Fri, 01 Nov 2019, 03:45

Thanks, looking forward to working out speed and range too. This will be my commuter to work so I don’t need it to go super fast, as long as the acceleration is good and I can get around comfortably without worrying about the range it should be good. I’m hoping the 6kW motor will be enough as I was thinking about the 8kW one :shock:

I did a Vespa conversion a while back and got help from https://www.extremecreations.com.au/ to modify the swingarm so I guess someone similar up your way could help. I tried as much as possible to use the original bits of the bike to make engineering simpler.

Good luck with your project if you decide to go down the conversion path!

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Re: Soyachips’ Electric FZR250

Post by soyachips » Tue, 03 Dec 2019, 20:48

OK it’s been a while again so there are a few updates. The EV Expo was great to be part of. Lots of interesting conversations with people and great to see all the other conversions people have done. I didn’t quite manage to get it running for the show but it was all together at least. It didn’t take too long after the show to get it running but like everything on this project there’s been a lot of two steps forward one step back! I killed a relay I was using to turn on the controller, also damaged a relay in one of the BMS modules I’m using so had to send that off to get repaired. Also spent quite a bit of time getting the 12V system working and cleaning up the wiring harness to only have the wires still being used. Last weekend went for my first ride on the bike and adjusted some of the controller settings. Overall the testing went really well so I’m pretty close to getting the certifying engineer to do brake testing except that one of the cell groups died and I now have to get some replacement cells :shock: so probably a couple of weeks before they arrive. Will post some videos of the test rides soon.

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Re: Soyachips’ Electric FZR250

Post by soyachips » Tue, 03 Dec 2019, 21:10




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