Francisco's Electric Pajero

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coulomb
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by coulomb »

So many pipes. It's great that the battery will be liquid cooled, but it seems to me that there will be hundreds of potential places where coolant could leak out. Ask Chris Jones about leaking battery modules.

Will the coolant be distilled water based, or some other relatively low conducting liquid?
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by francisco.shi »

Leaks are a concern. The joints at the end of the pipes have two orings. I am also (seriously) considering potting the ends of the pipes and the manifold.
I will probably be using glycol coolant.
What I am planning to do is to test the battery without coolant and make sure everything functions correctly before potting the ends. I could also use a soft potting compound that can be removed in case I need to do repairs.
I guess it is difficult to get good compactness and serviceability. I think the new Tesla modules are also potted but even if they weren't you couldn't easily replace some dead cells.
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by francisco.shi »

Making more progress on the left hand side module.
Got parts ready.
Cooling plates.
Cooling plates.
20220519_212424.jpg (1.87 MiB) Viewed 10384 times
Mylar for wrapping cells.
Mylar for wrapping cells.
20220519_212634.jpg (1.52 MiB) Viewed 10384 times
Metal parts.
Metal parts.
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Wrapped cells with folded tabs.
Wrapped cells with folded tabs.
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3 bottom layers. (4P15S)
3 bottom layers. (4P15S)
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3 more layers to go.
I hope I can finish this module tomorrow.
Most of the time is used wrapping the cells, folding the tabs and cleaning the tabs and applying contact grease.
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by francisco.shi »

Bottom of the left module is assembled and now compressing the cells.
Bottom left battery module. 4P26S (22kwh)
Bottom left battery module. 4P26S (22kwh)
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This is the largest module. It should be around 90kg.
I will try to finish the top modules some time this week.
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by francisco.shi »

Battery module removed from the jig and placed roughly how it will fit in the battery case.
Rough arrangement of battery modules.
Rough arrangement of battery modules.
20220523_112401.jpg (1.77 MiB) Viewed 10341 times
There are still 3 more small modules to go on top similar to the right hand side.
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by francisco.shi »

Finished the 3 top modules.
Outer battery modules complete.
Outer battery modules complete.
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Top view.
Top view.
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34S on the right hand side and 44S on the left hand side for a total of 66kwh.
Now just the small center module missing which is 18S.
The separation of the modules is about right so this is the rough size of the battery pack.
I now need to make some plastic spacers to go between the horizontal and vertical blocks, add the bus bars and clamp everything together into two single units. Make sure I can get the bus bars from the terminals of each unit to the right place.
After that I need to get the battery box prototype that is in the car and put the two blocks in and update the drawing. After that i need to get it made and hopefully everything will fit in the car. I still have not thought about how to get all the cooling pipes connected together to ensure I get the same flow thru each string and to make sure I can get the inlet and outlet hoses in an accessible place.
It is getting to the point that it is difficult to visualise this in the CAD model. Some times real parts are easier to figure out.
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by coulomb »

Wow. All that and more has to fit into one vehicle? It doesn't look possible. It will be interesting to see the installation photos.
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Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by francisco.shi »

It does fit. There is a lot of space under the floor. The box that all this is supposed to fit into (according to the CAD model) is already in the car. It is just empty at the moment. If it wasn't because the motors encroach into the battery I could get 100kwh.
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by francisco.shi »

Today I made the spacers to go between the modules.
Module spacers.
Module spacers.
20220604_230905.jpg (1.67 MiB) Viewed 10187 times
The spacers have grooves to match the pipes on the bottom module and has the shape of the top 3 modules. These spacers keep everything locked so nothing slides.
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by francisco.shi »

Spacers installed. I also made some manifold dummies to see how it will fit. I haven't decides how I will do the liquid routing so I don't want to make the proper manifolds yet.
There were a few difficulties during assembly. I found that I need to come up with a better method of applying the correct compression. I have had to re do the crimping because they were compressed too much and the spacers didn't fit correctly.
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I have also added some shields for the bus bars.
If I can get it finished I will try to bring this module on Wednesday to the meeting.
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by francisco.shi »

I got most of the straps done. Just missing bus 3 bus bars (about 200g extra). All the other links are in.
The total weight is 150kg for 31.5kwh (210wh/kg).
Strapped right hand side module.
Strapped right hand side module.
20220615_233806.jpg (1.62 MiB) Viewed 10064 times
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by necrogt4 »

That's looking rather monstrous! It must feel good to finally be getting the batteries together.

Two questions:
  • What will the total battery box weight and capacity be?
  • How're you going to lift what's on the table? Is it rigid enough to support its own weight?
Well, maybe three. But anyways...
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by francisco.shi »

The block on the table is very strong. If I put a block of wood on each end to hold it off the table I can stand on the middle without any problems. I took it to the AEVA meeting for show and tell. I used a piece of RHS with two straps and an engine hoist to lift it.
The total capacity of the battery will be about 85 kWh. It should weigh about 400kg for the battery modules, about 40kg for the case and about 70kg for each motor. So total going in will be about 585kg. I am hoping the engine, gearbox, transfer case, exhaust and fuel tank will be about 500kg may be more. The fuel tank with fuel alone is 100kg.
It is exciting getting the battery together but there are so many small parts that I need to make and they take a lot of time.
There are 3 bus bars missing in the picture. I have done two already. Still one more to go. There are some isolator blocks to allow the bus bars to go thru the cooling manifolds which I hope I can do tomorrow and then one more link on the back and it should all be done except for the real cooling manifolds and the BMS boards.

The block that goes on the other side has onr bus bar that is a bit complicated and I still haven't got a good solution for it but will see how it goes.
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by francisco.shi »

I got the left door controller installed and working.
All door functions are controlled via CAN bus. The small board is used to generate the CAN messages to make the door operate for testing.
The door controller (inside the door) broadcasts the state of all inputs like door switch, window up/down buttons, lock state and will carry out commands send to it by the test board.
The test board will look at the state of the inputs and will generate messages for the door to act. For example when the handle touch sensor is activated the test board will check if the door is closed and if it is it will send a command to the door controller to unlock the door.
All the lights attached to the door (indicator, puddle light in the mirror and the red light in the inside of the door) have brightness control.

Here is a video of the test.
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by francisco.shi »

I have an update on the door controllers. I managed to get both front doors done. All the functions of the door are now controllable via CAN.
The next step was to try to get some kind of FOB working. I did look up trying to find a chipset or something that would do the job but so far no luck. So I decided to try to use a BLE (blue tooth low energy) beacon. I ordered some tags and for them two days ago. I got some test software on an ESP32 that can detect the beacon and gives me signal strength and a 6 byte address. I got two boards with ESP32 and CAN bus channel and programmed them to transmit the signal strength and address over CAN and put a board on each door. There are some good and bad results. The first is that I can detect the beacon and read a signal strength and use it to allow the door to be unlocked and automatically lock if the beacon is not detected for a certain length of time. The problem is that the signal strength is not reliable enough to be used as a measure of proximity and the signal strength varies too much. For example if I put the beacon in my pocket and I walk up to the car it will detect the beacon about 1m away but if I take it out of my pocket some times it detects the beacon from 5m away. I am using signal strength as an indication of distance which does not seem to be working reliably. I may need to linearise the reading. The signal strength reading I believe is in db so it is a log scale. This may solve the problem. There is also another issue which is the broadcast rate. It seems the tags I got do not transmit often enough to get a quick response or maybe the scan rare is not fast enough. It seems to transmit every 2 seconds or so. If i press the button on the tag it transmits more often for a while and then it goes back to a low rate. If anyone has any suggestions I am happy to try them.
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by necrogt4 »

I'm looking at using bluetooth BLE to lock / unlock my doors also. But not with a beacon.

I will be using an iPhone but it could just as easily be done with an Android phone. Either way you will have much greater control over the communication as you will be solely responsible for it. Plus, who want's to carry around keys and a beacon when you've already got your phone on your pocket that can replace them?

If you control hardware and software on both ends then signal strength should be far less of an issue. Tesla can do it, there's no reason we can't easily solve the same problem.

I've only just begun work on a proof of concept, but I'd be happy to share the code once I've got a working example. In vehicle I will be running a Raspberry Pi 4 running Android (to run my custom digital dash) and an iOS phone key.
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by francisco.shi »

Using the phone as a beacon was the next step. As far as I know Android phones (and apple) can also transmit signals using BLE and behave as a beacon. I don't know how to write Android apps. The issue with the signal strength is mostly to determine where the beacon is. So if I am next to the driver door I want to only unlock the driver door. I also need to determine if the beacon is inside or outside of the car. I want it to work the same as a standard FOB.
I am also considering to make it auto start.
So say I have the FOB (or phone) with me then if I touch the handle it will unlock. If I let go off the handle without opening the door it will lock back up. If I open the door the car will do the precharge and have everything ready. If it detects someone sitting on the driver seat then I can enable the motors if I press the brake and move the gear lever out of park.
For now the important requirement is to determine where the beacon is (which side of the car and inside or outside).
Many beacons have buttons that can be used as a remote control. The ones I got have a button but I haven't figure out what it transmits when the button is pressed. Nothing appears to change other than the refresh rate.
If you are planning on using a raspberry pi for your dash you may consider this one.
https://www.facebook.com/Raspexi/
It has an interface with dual CAN and GPS and you can add IO via CAN. It is only a dash so it will only display. I have asked the supplier if they could add functionality to allow for inputs from the touch screen to be sent via CAN. He may add it in the future. I think he is working on adding more functionality for EVs.
It may be easier to buy his instead of writing the software.
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by necrogt4 »

A simple FOB app/service running on an Android phone shouldn't be too hard to knock up. I can send across some code once I've got something basic working. I'd like to add some sort of encryption and handshake to give mine a layer of security but that'd be down the track.

Yep, I know of the Powertune Dash. It's pretty neat and would be good for a basic dash but I've got a whole long list of things I want mine to do (odometer, power generation and consumption, BMS/motor status, lap timer, maps, log book etc etc etc) and a simple dash display won't quite cut it. It will also be in charge of door security as the Raspberry Pi will have a mobile connection to keep track of where the car is via my phone, door key with server based security and the list goes on.

I've got a pretty neat expansion board for the Raspberry Pi to allow it to run on 12v and take some 12v standard inputs (lights, reverse etc) along with having a CANbus port. That combined with a display and GPS sensor ticks all the boxes.

Luckily this is what I do for a day job (mobile and headunit software) so this is right down my alley.
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by francisco.shi »

I am about to get a new head unit for the Pajero. Do you have any that you can recommend that I can program and will have some interface so I can display things like battery level and consumption.
I would like to be able to use the head unit to change settings in the car and display things like AC settings.

I am interested in helping if you need hardware made.
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by francisco.shi »

I think i got the FOB working now.
First is u converted the RSSI (signal strength) to a distance measurement and placed the receivers in such a way that the receiver is not obstructed by any metal (like the doors) this seems to give better results.
The tags I am using don't seem to be very good. I think the refresh rate is a bit slow and they are not always detected quickly.
I got the puddle lights to light up when the tag is below the distance limit for allowing unlocking. This way I can tell when they are detected. It is nice and convenient so I think I will leave this feature in the final version.
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by 4Springs »

That IS fancy!
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by necrogt4 »

francisco.shi wrote: Fri, 15 Jul 2022, 18:39 I am about to get a new head unit for the Pajero. Do you have any that you can recommend that I can program and will have some interface so I can display things like battery level and consumption.
I would like to be able to use the head unit to change settings in the car and display things like AC settings.

I am interested in helping if you need hardware made.
There's a few options here:
  • A headunit that natively runs Android. This you could put your own Android app on that handles your settings and HVAC controls.
  • A headunit that supports Android Auto and Apple CarPlay. Either using your phone or in my car an Arduino running Android to act as the phone.
  • A double din sized tablet in place of a headunit.
With any of the options you're going to need some way to communicate to the rest of the systems in the car. Be it via a bluetooth / usb CANbus device or bluetooth / USB for Android Auto.

I think a double din sized Android table might be the easiest to get working and gives you the greatest control. You could run a rooted image on the tablet giving your app or apps root access to do things they otherwise wouldn't be allowed to do also. Not that you'd need an app running as root to achieve basic settings and HVAC controls. Running a tablet also gives you a ton of free space behind it where the headunit would normally sit. Throw in a sim car and you've got digital radio too.

I'll either run a tablet or a head unit that supports Android Auto / Apple CarPlay. I like the idea of the Arduino dash acting as an Android Auto Phone to a headunit (allowing for simple access to navigation and settings) but Android Auto Apps are far more limited than normal Android / iOS apps are in terms of user interface. Unless you roll your own user interface drawing you're stuck to very limited user interface types (e.g. media player, list view).
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by francisco.shi »

I am not very familiar with the options you mentioned. I was going to go to the car sound shop and ask them to install an off the shelf unit that will connect to my phone using android auto. As far as I know they already have the amplifiers to drive the speakers and all the software that you would need for a head unit but I don't really know what other interface they have to connect to the car. I know they have inputs for reversing cameras and side cameras but other than that I don't really know what to get.
I was trying to avoid doing the sound system myself because it is something that other people can do.
Do you have any models you can suggest?
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by necrogt4 »

I'm not familiar with the current model line-up but a reputable brand that can do wireless Android Auto and Apple CarPlay along with all of the other things you're looking for in a stereo/headunit would be fine. A decent car audio shop would be able to better advise you on the current models.

With this setup it would actually be your phone that needs to connect to the hardware you put in your car to manage the settings (seperate to the Android Auto connection that is). There's plenty of options for that. Be it wired or wireless CANbus via a dongle, or bluetooth/WiFi directly to one of the boards in the car or even via the mobile network so you can do things remotely.

With Android Auto apps they actually run on your phone and essentially use the screen of the headunit to do the drawing. So even if the headunit had a CANbus connection you wouldn't be able to leverage that in an Android Auto app. The app/phone will need its own separate connection.
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by Cowardlyduck »

A few months back I did a ton of research on head units for my Pajero recently after the CD player seemingly died. I have a 2012 NW with the Rockford system which makes it hard, but I narrowed it down to these units:
https://www.extnix.com.au/EPX5-MPRF/
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002842593681.html?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003486737622.html?
https://www.teyes.com.au/collections/mi ... 6857068740

Anyway, soon after doing the research the CD player decided to start working again and has kept working since, so I've not bothered to get one of the above units as yet, but they should all work well. :)

Keep up the awesome work on this project btw....I've been lurking for a while. :D

Cheers
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