PV diversion EV charger

How do you store and manage your electricity?
Post Reply
spod
Noobie
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed, 15 Mar 2017, 15:10
Real Name: Lance Turner
Location: Earth
Contact:

PV diversion EV charger

Post by spod » Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 02:52

Did a quick search on the forum and didn't see any posts to it, thought some people here would like to know about a new EVSE that can charge an EV using excess output from a solar array (instead of sending that energy to the grid).

It is the Zappi, is on indiegogo at the moment at https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/zapp ... r-pv-solar#/

I have talked with the creators of it (same people who developed the Immersun PV diverter) and they say it will have Oz approvals, so should be of interest to anyone with a PV system.

[ Edited by webmaster to make link clickable ]
Last edited by rhills on Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 10:32, edited 1 time in total.

Rusdy
Groupie
Posts: 206
Joined: Mon, 09 Jun 2014, 16:45
Real Name: Rusdy
Location: Australia
Contact:

PV diversion EV charger

Post by Rusdy » Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 16:40

At last! I've been waiting for this product for a looooong time. Looks like I don't need to do my own cowboy style charger and learning the ChaDemo protocol Image

User avatar
Johny
Senior Member
Posts: 3729
Joined: Mon, 23 Jun 2008, 16:26
Real Name: John Wright
Location: Melbourne
Contact:

PV diversion EV charger

Post by Johny » Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 17:28

Hmmm - needs at least a 2kw system (with 1500w spare) to function by the looks of it. They mention "from 6A to...".

Rusdy
Groupie
Posts: 206
Joined: Mon, 09 Jun 2014, 16:45
Real Name: Rusdy
Location: Australia
Contact:

PV diversion EV charger

Post by Rusdy » Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 18:50

Yea, that's the pity bit. I'm expecting the charger to cut out completely (or as an option) when there is no spare 1500W. Better than nothing. I presume this is the limitation set by the charging standard (chademo / AC fast charger / etc).

rhills
Site Admin
Posts: 386
Joined: Fri, 25 Jul 2008, 01:57
Real Name: Rob Hills
Location: Waikiki, WA

PV diversion EV charger

Post by rhills » Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 21:42

I'm also very interested, but the "perks" on the Indegogo website seem to ship to the EU only Image

It'd be nice to see it get up and going but worryingly, I see that it's only 20% of the way to its funding goal with only 20 days left. Maybe their campaign has only been going for a short time?
Rob Hills
AEVA Webmaster
2014 Mitsubishi Outlander Aspire PHEV
Jul 2014 - Mar 2019
Total Petrol: 646.6L
ODO: 47979
Av Consumption: 1.35 L/100km

adam lippiatt
Noobie
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed, 25 Feb 2015, 20:10
Real Name: Adam Lippiatt
Location: Perth

Re: PV diversion EV charger

Post by adam lippiatt » Tue, 02 Jul 2019, 06:02

Available in Australia and review seems positive. https://www.drivezero.com.au/charging/r ... v-charger/

I wonder if it would work on the vectrix if I changed over plugs.

francisco.shi
Groupie
Posts: 232
Joined: Mon, 17 Sep 2018, 16:30
Real Name: Francisco
Location: Brisbane, Strathpine

Re: PV diversion EV charger

Post by francisco.shi » Tue, 02 Jul 2019, 07:02

I was looking for some information about what the cars do with the battery while charging.
This is what I want to do:
Get a hybrid inverter that runs with 400v batteries. I have heard the new Samsung or LG lithium battery inverters run of this voltage.
Connect the car to the inverter thru the dc charging port so the inverter uses the car battery as the main storage battery and put some capacitors so the inverter thinks it has a battery when I unplug the car and have a kind of precharge circuit so I can plug and unplug the battery.
If I can do this then the car will function as a very large home storage battery. It will only feed power to the grid if I have excess power and the car is not plugged in or is full. At night I can run off the car battery.
If I plan to do a long trip the next day I will need to have a setting so it will not use the car battery as storage and charge the battery from the grid.
I have been trying to find a solar system that has a hybrid inverter that runs of 400v and has an approved with a mains disconnect in case the mains goes out so the house will keep running but so far no one seems to have this available. They either run of 48v or the mains disconnect hardware is not available yet.
Does anyone have any comments or suggestions?

User avatar
coulomb
Site Admin
Posts: 3766
Joined: Thu, 22 Jan 2009, 20:32
Real Name: Mike Van Emmerik
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: PV diversion EV charger

Post by coulomb » Tue, 02 Jul 2019, 08:15

francisco.shi wrote:
Tue, 02 Jul 2019, 07:02
Connect the car to the inverter thru the dc charging port so the inverter uses the car battery as the main storage battery and put some capacitors so the inverter thinks it has a battery when I unplug the car and have a kind of precharge circuit so I can plug and unplug the battery.
So you want to get a solar inverter-charger that expects a 400 V battery, but doesn't have one built-in? And use the car, when it's home, as the inverter's battery. I'm not aware of any such inverter-chargers, but I haven't been looking for them. Many inverter-chargers work with an internal 400 V bus, and some connect their solar chargers directly to this bus (e.g. the PIP-5048MG). But safely gaining access to that bus, and having the inverter firmware deal sensibly with unexpected power into or out of that bus, could be challenging.

It's an interesting idea, but I see several problems. You don't want to be connecting and disconnecting the battery under load, or the DC port will arc and wear out quickly. That's probably doable, but will require some thought.
I don't see a set of capacitors acting like a battery to the inverter-charger. So I think you'd need an actual small battery for the inverter-charger. As you say, you'll need some sort of pre-charge or soft connect to sort out the difference in battery voltage.

There is also the question of extra degradation of your car battery. For a while I rejected any thought of V2G system like this, unless the power company paid a huge amount, so that would only be in cases where the power company was desperate, and might only happen a few times a year. But now it looks like car battery degradation is far more age related than usage related. So maybe it's not such a bad idea.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

User avatar
coulomb
Site Admin
Posts: 3766
Joined: Thu, 22 Jan 2009, 20:32
Real Name: Mike Van Emmerik
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: PV diversion EV charger

Post by coulomb » Tue, 02 Jul 2019, 08:32

adam lippiatt wrote:
Tue, 02 Jul 2019, 06:02
Available in Australia and review seems positive.
Yes, I've been watching the Zappi. It seems to be mostly set up for large grid-connect systems with no FIT. I have a small grid-connect system with a good FIT, and a separate battery inverter-charger. I see that they have several CT (Current Transformer) options, and it can handle a battery like a Tesla that discharges and also charges via AC. But my main solar energy system charges via DC, and they don't seem to have any DC options at present. It may well be possible to make my own, it's probably not that hard. Or probably, someone's figured it out and published a how-to. I haven't had time to look into this.
I wonder if it would work on the vectrix if I changed over plugs.
I notice that there seem to be Zappi models that have a socket on the front, rather than a tethered cable. If you could get that model, you could arrange a special cable for your Vectrix, or maybe they already make one. So then you don't have to chop off a $100 J1772 or Mennekes plug. If you ever got an electric car as well as the Vectrix, you could charge either one from the Zappi, just using different cables to plug into its socket.

Zappi with socket.jpg
Zappi with socket.jpg (31.62 KiB) Viewed 550 times

Edit: it seems that the above is a new model, not yet available but can be pre-ordered. It has a more direct 3-phase capability (you don't have to use a Harvi if it's near the switchboard). I'd say that's a type 2 (Mennekes) socket on the front, since they're 3-phase, and type 2 chargers often seem to be "BYO cord". The new model seems to have less flexibility than the old (which will still probably be available), from my quick reading of the FAQ, but I think further study (by me, for my own curiosity) is warranted.

Edit 2: As Antiscab points out below, you would also need a small interface to make it J1772 compatible.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

antiscab
Senior Member
Posts: 2486
Joined: Mon, 26 Nov 2007, 05:39
Real Name: Matthew Lacey
Location: Perth, WA

Re: PV diversion EV charger

Post by antiscab » Tue, 02 Jul 2019, 09:40

adam lippiatt wrote:
Tue, 02 Jul 2019, 06:02
Available in Australia and review seems positive. https://www.drivezero.com.au/charging/r ... v-charger/

I wonder if it would work on the vectrix if I changed over plugs.
sadly no, the vectrix charger isn't j1772 compatible.
Though at 1500W, it can be made to plug into a charge station, as it already draws close to the lowest current defined by the standard (7.5A vs 6A)
Matt
2017 Renault zoe - 25'000km
2007 vectrix - 156'000km
1998 prius - needs Batt
1999 Prius - needs batt
2000 prius - has 200 x headway 38120 cells

francisco.shi
Groupie
Posts: 232
Joined: Mon, 17 Sep 2018, 16:30
Real Name: Francisco
Location: Brisbane, Strathpine

Re: PV diversion EV charger

Post by francisco.shi » Tue, 02 Jul 2019, 11:51

coulomb wrote: So you want to get a solar inverter-charger that expects a 400 V battery, but doesn't have one built-in? And use the car, when it's home, as the inverter's battery. I'm not aware of any such inverter-chargers, but I haven't been looking for them. Many inverter-chargers work with an internal 400 V bus, and some connect their solar chargers directly to this bus (e.g. the PIP-5048MG). But safely gaining access to that bus, and having the inverter firmware deal sensibly with unexpected power into or out of that bus, could be challenging.

The idea of having an inverter that runs of high voltage batteries was that I wouldn't have to get to the insides of the inverter.
coulomb wrote: t's an interesting idea, but I see several problems. You don't want to be connecting and disconnecting the battery under load, or the DC port will arc and wear out quickly. That's probably doable, but will require some thought.
I don't see a set of capacitors acting like a battery to the inverter-charger. So I think you'd need an actual small battery for the inverter-charger. As you say, you'll need some sort of pre-charge or soft connect to sort out the difference in battery voltage.

The idea of the capacitors was that there would be a charge circuit with a contactor. When the car is plugged in the charge circuit will connect the car battery and recharge the capacitors. The capacitors should follow the battery voltage easily so I do not need a high power circuit to match the voltage difference. The capacitors are meant to look like a very small battery to the inverter.
coulomb wrote: There is also the question of extra degradation of your car battery. For a while I rejected any thought of V2G system like this, unless the power company paid a huge amount, so that would only be in cases where the power company was desperate, and might only happen a few times a year. But now it looks like car battery degradation is far more age related than usage related. So maybe it's not such a bad idea.
The car battery would wear out quicker but you save the cost of a home storage battery.
If you had two electric cars and you had one at home all the time you can potentially not have to have a separate battery for home.
The ultimate aim is to be independent of the grid. Essentially energy independ.

Post Reply