PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

non-EV Solar, Wind and other renewable power sources
non-EV batteries and other energy storage stuff
Forum rules
Important!
This forum is for discussion of Non-EV matters.
Solar Junky
Groupie
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat, 15 Oct 2016, 04:00
Real Name: Danny
Location: Orlando

PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by Solar Junky » Fri, 14 Apr 2017, 15:03

What's up guy's !!!
nice to see some new post.

Weber, trying to get a new module so my rs232 will work.
Thanks for your help!

rinaldoparaipan
Noobie
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon, 26 Oct 2015, 03:26
Real Name: Dan Paraipan
Location: Romania
Contact:

PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by rinaldoparaipan » Fri, 21 Apr 2017, 10:52

Hello again.
I have a strange situation with a PIP-4048.In the meniu 16 I set OSO(only solar charging)option.If I shut down the inverter from On-Off button and the AC grid is connected, after about 30 seconds the inverter try to start for few seconds: the LEDs and the display are lighting and after that is shutting down.The process is repeating continuously until I cut-of the AC in breaker.
Any idea?

User avatar
coulomb
Site Admin
Posts: 3779
Joined: Thu, 22 Jan 2009, 20:32
Real Name: Mike Van Emmerik
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by coulomb » Fri, 21 Apr 2017, 13:53

rinaldoparaipan wrote: I have a strange situation with a PIP-4048.
What main firmware are you running on that inverter?
When you say the LEDs are on before they go off, are they all on together for just a second or so, like at startup?
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

rinaldoparaipan
Noobie
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon, 26 Oct 2015, 03:26
Real Name: Dan Paraipan
Location: Romania
Contact:

PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by rinaldoparaipan » Sat, 22 Apr 2017, 00:13

The firmware is 72.60.
Yes, the LEDs has the same behavior like at startup.
This happens not for one, but for two inverters-one is MPP Solar, the second one is Effekta(Voltronic branded for Germany)
Last edited by rinaldoparaipan on Fri, 21 Apr 2017, 14:16, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
coulomb
Site Admin
Posts: 3779
Joined: Thu, 22 Jan 2009, 20:32
Real Name: Mike Van Emmerik
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by coulomb » Sun, 23 Apr 2017, 02:20

While reading through the firmware to possibly answer the above, I decided to search for a few keywords to see if perhaps Texas Instruments had published an application note with sample source code that Voltronic Power based part of their code on. I used "OSSched OSMaskEventPend" in a Google search. There were no results from TI, but it came up with this:

https://wenku.baidu.com/view/7915e57ca2 ... 5bfae.html###

It may take a moment for the PDF slides to show up in HTML format (a la http://www.alldatasheet.com/). In case it disappears, here is a sample page:

Image

There it is. The definition for the real-time operating system Task Control Block structure. I have to say I was a little surprised to see that this was published in a scholarly presentation. Alas, I don't read Chinese, but the fact that source code seems to be always written in English means that there are chunks of readable code throughout. I've long wondered what the second and third fields were about.

If anyone knows how to translate such pages (Google Translate translates the text around the PDF, but nothing inside the PDF), I'd appreciate a pointer, perhaps via Private Message.
Last edited by coulomb on Mon, 24 Apr 2017, 10:00, edited 1 time in total.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

xenonhost
Noobie
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun, 23 Apr 2017, 00:19
Real Name: Marian Titieni
Location: Romania
Contact:

PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by xenonhost » Sun, 23 Apr 2017, 13:14

Hello, everyone!
I want to buy LiFePO4 for my photovoltaic system but I need to know where to get a BMS for the cells and a remote monitoring device for the battery bank. I will buy the lithium cells from ev-power. At the moment I have 5 pcs PIP4048 in paralel which I haven't changed the firmware but I want to.
Any advice?

joaquinsfy
Noobie
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri, 16 Dec 2016, 06:56
Real Name: joaquin
Location: barcelona

PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by joaquinsfy » Tue, 25 Apr 2017, 04:06

Hi!

Finally is here!.

I have to update the firmware to start my installation, i want to install the 72.70b Firmware version, but i don't know if i need to install the PB version or the LF version. My installation is litihium iron chemistry (18650)

Thanks in advance, this can't be possible without your help.
Image

User avatar
coulomb
Site Admin
Posts: 3779
Joined: Thu, 22 Jan 2009, 20:32
Real Name: Mike Van Emmerik
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by coulomb » Wed, 26 Apr 2017, 00:36

joaquinsfy wrote: I have to update the firmware to start my installation, i want to install the 72.70b Firmware version, but i don't know if i need to install the PB version or the LF version. My installation is litihium iron chemistry (18650)

Yes, the patched firmware has some unfortunate naming that doesn't reflect the realistic chance that someone, such as yourself, might use a non-LiFePO₄ but still lithium based battery. At least we've started calling the one with the extended voltage ranges the LiFePO₄ patch (it was the "lithium" patch).

To answer your question, basically only use the LiFePO₄ version of the patch if you actually have a LiFePO₄ battery. Yours appear to be 14s of a non-LiFePO₄ lithium chemistry, so you should use the so-called lead-acid version. You will be restricted, as with lead acid, to a maximum low-voltage cutoff of 48.0 V, which is some 3.43 volts per cell. I don't know your cells, but a quick search indicates that about 3.3 VPC is a reasonable figure. If you are indeed running 14s, you could use 46.2 V for setting 29, "Low DC cut-off voltage". You still have a little leeway if you want to increase that cut-off voltage.

The U1 display (DSP firmware version) will become Pb1, where Pb is the chemical symbol for lead. Just ignore that. We'll fix it as soon as we figure out how to capture "non-LiFePO₄" in two letters Image Maybe we'll settle on Fe (for LiFePO₄) and "St" (for standard battery voltage range).

It's not helped by the fact that people are starting to use the term "lithium ion" to mean "non-LiFePO₄ lithium based" (as I believe you did, joaquinsfy). LiFePO₄ (Lithium Iron Phosphate) is in fact one of the many chemistries under the "lithium ion" umbrella.

[ Edit: spelled out Lithium Iron Phosphate. ]
Last edited by coulomb on Tue, 25 Apr 2017, 16:16, edited 1 time in total.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

User avatar
weber
Site Admin
Posts: 2624
Joined: Fri, 23 Jan 2009, 17:27
Real Name: Dave Keenan
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by weber » Wed, 26 Apr 2017, 02:37

joaquinsfy wrote:I have to update the firmware to start my installation, i want to install the 72.70b Firmware version, but i don't know if i need to install the PB version or the LF version. My installation is litihium iron chemistry (18650)


Hi joaquinsfy, You need to install the Pb version.

Your installation is lithium ion, not lithium iron. They sound the same, but they are very different things. The spelling matters.
One of the fathers of MeXy the electric MX-5, along with Coulomb and Newton (Jeff Owen).

joaquinsfy
Noobie
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri, 16 Dec 2016, 06:56
Real Name: joaquin
Location: barcelona

PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by joaquinsfy » Wed, 26 Apr 2017, 02:44

@weber, @coulomb, thanks guys,

Sorry i make a mistake "lithium ion", and understood that also it's not so accurate.

i will say "18660 batteries" :-)

I will install the PB version, and set the 29 parameter to 46.2, that means 3.3 volts * cell, it's ok for now... but many people set to 3V the cell cutoff.

Thanks again Guys. i will keep you posted with my progress.

christians
Noobie
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun, 09 Apr 2017, 22:04
Real Name: Christian
Location: Philippines

PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by christians » Sun, 30 Apr 2017, 17:29

hey guys. i got firmware version 52.30 and 1.24 and i think its working pretty well. what am i missing with the latest firmware?

User avatar
coulomb
Site Admin
Posts: 3779
Joined: Thu, 22 Jan 2009, 20:32
Real Name: Mike Van Emmerik
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by coulomb » Mon, 01 May 2017, 16:14

christians wrote: what am i missing with the latest firmware?

In short, not much. Since you're not using a patched firmware, you could be affected by the "too early to float" bug. This bug can be a bit subtle, as it only shows up when the charge current is low. So you might have it, and it might be undercharging your battery, and you might not know it. As far as I can tell, the charge bug has existed at least from firmware versions 52.02 to 73.00.

[ Edit: the latest official firmware, 73.00, still has the bug. ]

Changes to the official firmware have been fairly modest, usually minor changes here and there, often to take advantage of changing hardware capability, such as a higher maximum charge current of 60 or 80 A. So that won't affect you.

One exception to this is 72.70, which introduced some extra settings designed for occasional equalisation of lead acid batteries.

Edit: 73.00 has introduced a new option for setting 04, Power Saving Mode. It is also the default, and has the label "NOr". Does anyone have firmware 73.xx, and if so does the manual indicate what this setting is about?

[ Edit: reworded first paragraph, since it could be read as saying that the latest firmware fixes the charging bug. ]

[ Edit 2: NOr or NOk -> NOr. ]
Last edited by coulomb on Mon, 08 May 2017, 08:57, edited 1 time in total.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

Ian60D
Noobie
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun, 02 Apr 2017, 13:30
Real Name: Ian
Location: NSW South Coast

PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by Ian60D » Thu, 04 May 2017, 18:28

Hi My name is Ian,
Well I have read all 67 pages and have learnt a lot.
I am looking to use 3 x PIP-4048's in a 3 phase configuration.
I will be using this to power equipment in my shed. Plus powering the house.
System is will be RAPS. No mains.
I read a comment that there could be problems with unbalanced loads.
Has anyone used this configuration? Any problems?
An alternative would be a 4th unit just for the single phase stuff but don't really want to spend the money if I don't have to.
I had a look at the Giant site but it appears from the site that they only offer full systems now?
Thanks in advance.
Cheers Ian

Ian60D
Noobie
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun, 02 Apr 2017, 13:30
Real Name: Ian
Location: NSW South Coast

PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by Ian60D » Thu, 04 May 2017, 18:54

solamahn wrote: It's actually running in single phase now. Had some problems balancing the loads with the 3 phase plus they are using a single phase generator for backup. It runs an office block and a workshop


Found the original comment. Any more details Solamahn? The other person looking at this was Kurt in Brisbane. How did you go Kurt?
Cheers Ian

andys
Groupie
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed, 20 Jul 2016, 19:44
Real Name: Andrew Snow
Location: Sydney

PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by andys » Thu, 04 May 2017, 19:06

I'm also working on a shed+house setup and it just seemed too hard to balance loads, so I'm attempting to stick to single phase.

Also I've discovered you can single phase 4 pole electric motors in up to 3.7kW (5HP) so I can't see single phase ever being a problem for me.

solamahn
Groupie
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu, 18 Jun 2015, 00:09
Real Name: Julian Leach
Location: PNG

PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by solamahn » Thu, 04 May 2017, 19:33

With 3 4048's in single phase parallel, you have a pool of 12kw to run all your single phase appliances on and will not overload until your demand exceeds 12kw. If you are running a 3 phase appliance, then you have to have the 4048's setup for 3 phase. If you only have single phase appliances and have the 4048's set up for 3 phase, then it is easier to overload a phase because now you have 3 pools of 4kw so if a phase demand exceeds 4kw, you have an overload situation. Your utility or generator supply being either single phase or 3 phase also requires your 4048's to be programmed the same way.
I am installing 2 4048V in single phase parallel at the moment. 30 x 300w panels and 16 x 700Ah Lifepo4
Solamahn PNG

xenonhost
Noobie
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun, 23 Apr 2017, 00:19
Real Name: Marian Titieni
Location: Romania
Contact:

PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by xenonhost » Thu, 04 May 2017, 21:31

I bought 48 Winston cells 40Ah and I need to know how to connect them in series/parallel to PIP4048, and what voltages I have to put into PIP. I have no BMS, I couldn't find one in Europe. please help!

solamahn
Groupie
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu, 18 Jun 2015, 00:09
Real Name: Julian Leach
Location: PNG

PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by solamahn » Thu, 04 May 2017, 22:03

Don't bother with BMS. Connect 3P16S. 16 sets in series, each set is 3 in parallel. Set your low voltage disconnect to 48, float to 54v and bulk to 54.6. Connect a load of about 1kw and bring the battery bank down to 48v checking every now and then to make sure that no group of 3 cells in parallel goes too much below 3v. 2 cellog 8's would make the monitoring easier. After the interverter turns itself off because it has reached 48v, measure the voltage of each of the 16 parallel groups and write it down. Then charge up to 54v and take a note of each group of 16 while not much current is going into the battery. Groups with a higher low voltage and higher high voltage need some energy removed. Groups with lower low voltage and lower high voltage need some energy added. Lower low voltage and higher high voltage leave. Same with higher low voltage and lower high voltage. Discharge the bank to 48v again and do you cell group energy adjustments. When you have your system running you could adjust float and bulk. If your battery is usually full, then lower float to 53.7 and see how it goes.
Solamahn PNG

xenonhost
Noobie
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun, 23 Apr 2017, 00:19
Real Name: Marian Titieni
Location: Romania
Contact:

PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by xenonhost » Thu, 04 May 2017, 22:12

And how to add energy for groups with low voltage and remove for the ones with high?

solamahn
Groupie
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu, 18 Jun 2015, 00:09
Real Name: Julian Leach
Location: PNG

PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by solamahn » Thu, 04 May 2017, 22:57

I use a lab power supply to add energy and a 100m roll of cable to remove. It would also be nice to group your 3 cells so that the total Ah capacity was very similar but it would require a lot of effort.
Solamahn PNG

Ian60D
Noobie
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun, 02 Apr 2017, 13:30
Real Name: Ian
Location: NSW South Coast

PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by Ian60D » Fri, 05 May 2017, 06:09

solamahn wrote: With 3 4048's in single phase parallel, you have a pool of 12kw to run all your single phase appliances on and will not overload until your demand exceeds 12kw. If you are running a 3 phase appliance, then you have to have the 4048's setup for 3 phase. If you only have single phase appliances and have the 4048's set up for 3 phase, then it is easier to overload a phase because now you have 3 pools of 4kw so if a phase demand exceeds 4kw, you have an overload situation. Your utility or generator supply being either single phase or 3 phase also requires your 4048's to be programmed the same way.
I am installing 2 4048V in single phase parallel at the moment. 30 x 300w panels and 16 x 700Ah Lifepo4


So If I spread my single phase loads (which are generally small) across the phases then I should be OK?
Do the pips handle a load, less than 4kw, on one phase but not on the others OK?
No good running it all in single phase as I need 3 phase for my machines. ie I have a mix of 3 phase and single phase loads.
Thanks for the info
Cheers Ian

solamahn
Groupie
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu, 18 Jun 2015, 00:09
Real Name: Julian Leach
Location: PNG

PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by solamahn » Fri, 05 May 2017, 12:17

Yes. If you can spread your single phase loads across each of the 3 phases without ever overloading any phase then you will be ok.
The problem I had on the particular job I am referring to had 3 air conditioners which I allocated one to each phase but I could not control what was connected to the GPO's. I ran 3 circuits for the GPO's and spread them out as best as I could. In the end I changed to single phase and connected a single phase 15kva generator which was also on site and set the utility battery charging to 10A per inverter.
Solamahn PNG

Ian60D
Noobie
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun, 02 Apr 2017, 13:30
Real Name: Ian
Location: NSW South Coast

PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by Ian60D » Sat, 06 May 2017, 00:57

Thanks for you advice Solamahn. Image
Cheers Ian

JvdSpoel
Noobie
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun, 19 Feb 2017, 04:08
Real Name: Johan
Location: Male

PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by JvdSpoel » Wed, 10 May 2017, 03:06

Hi all,

Just a quick question about the charger of the Axpert inverter. Anybody experienced any issues with the charger - hardware for example ripple which might damaged batteries, or is this nonsense?

Was talking to a supplier who said that they found that their batteries was damaged by the inverters charger. (AGM) Personally I have not experienced it but got a client who's batteries seems to have failed after 2 years.

Kind Regards,
Johan
   
JPS

User avatar
coulomb
Site Admin
Posts: 3779
Joined: Thu, 22 Jan 2009, 20:32
Real Name: Mike Van Emmerik
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by coulomb » Wed, 10 May 2017, 19:00

JvdSpoel wrote: Anybody experienced any issues with the charger - hardware for example ripple which might damaged batteries, or is this nonsense?
I've not heard of problems with ripple. I would think that batteries wouldn't care much about ripple, but that's just a gut feeling.
Was talking to a supplier who said that they found that their batteries was damaged by the inverters charger. (AGM) Personally I have not experienced it but got a client who's batteries seems to have failed after 2 years.
Well, there is the documented charging bug, where batteries can end up not getting charged fully a lot of the time, despite available solar energy. Chronic undercharging could shorten the life of any battery, particularly lead acid types. Our patched firmware fixes this charging bug. So far, I see no sign of the manufacturer fixing their code, and ironically it's a very simple fix.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

Post Reply