PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by daimyo »

@coulomb

Hi,

Do you know why all of my 4048 inverters are "limited" to 3,2 kW power input from solar panels?

Whatever I pun over that on them they cut the rest off... :|

Sa far as I know they are nominated to be 4kW? :?:

Thank You and best regards

T
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb »

daimyo wrote: Sun, 01 May 2022, 18:13 Do you know why all of my 4048 inverters are "limited" to 3,2 kW power input from solar panels?
Some time in late 2015, they changed from 60 A max to 80 A max. Mine are manufactured October 2015, and still have the 60 A max SCCs.

60 A is close to 3.2 kW, 80 A is close to 4 kW. About 10% more at higher battery voltages (LFP battery).

Wnen were yours manufactured? There is usually a small sticker on the side that has the manufacturing year and month, or it's encoded in the serial number.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by daimyo »

coulomb wrote: Sun, 01 May 2022, 21:54
daimyo wrote: Sun, 01 May 2022, 18:13 Do you know why all of my 4048 inverters are "limited" to 3,2 kW power input from solar panels?
Some time in late 2015, they changed from 60 A max to 80 A max. Mine are manufactured October 2015, and still have the 60 A max SCCs.

60 A is close to 3.2 kW, 80 A is close to 4 kW. About 10% more at higher battery voltages (LFP battery).

Wnen were yours manufactured? There is usually a small sticker on the side that has the manufacturing year and month, or it's encoded in the serial number.
Yes thats it... You know everything :P

Mine is year 2014, and 60A model,

Never mind I will put rest of panels on 5048 in 6S.

Thank you once again. You are the best.

T
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by mihaigsm2003 »

Hi!
I need firmware for PIP 5048MGX.
Problem, i change display (removable) after this i can't change Current in menu 02 and 11. i write new version of display, now i can set current on menu 11 but 02 can't change. if try comand line i get failed.
Write setting MCHGC020 to inverter 92932012101612 ... FAILED
i try firmware from this topic but finaly inverter was bricked (rewrite back firmware with motherboard witout DC transistors FET's)
Firmware actualy:
U1 71.03 MCU
U2 12.11 LCD
U3 00.24 ???
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb »

mihaigsm2003 wrote: Wed, 11 May 2022, 20:09 I need firmware for PIP 5048MGX.
Problem, i change display (removable) after this i can't change Current in menu 02 and 11. i write new version of display, now i can set current on menu 11 but 02 can't change.
Which removable display versions did you try? And which one was better?

i try firmware from this topic but finaly inverter was bricked (rewrite back firmware with motherboard witout DC transistors FET's)
Do you mean that you've actually damaged the MOSFETs now?
Firmware actualy:
U1 71.03 MCU
U2 12.11 LCD
Do you mean that these were the versions originally, from the factory? The first one is usually called DSP not MCU; MCU is usually reserved for the removable display.
U3 00.24 ???
I believe that this is the Bluetooth or WiFi firmware. I've never seen an update for these, and suspect that it's not possible for end users to update this firmware, except by updating hardware.

In my collection, for the MGX, I have only 72.10 (main, DSP, U1) and 15.04 (MCU, removable display). Would either of these help you at present? [ Edit: I've since realised that these two are for rack mounted Axpert Kings, not PIP-MGXs. ]
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by mihaigsm2003 »

Which removable display versions did you try? And which one was better?
I received inverter for repair with non original display, i try with all finded fw from internet
i try firmware from this topic but finaly inverter was bricked (rewrite back firmware with motherboard witout DC transistors FET's)
Do you mean that you've actually damaged the MOSFETs now?
Inverter is now working, but can't change current total charging at menu 02
Fet's is ok, i have automatic fuse on mai testing battery 10A
i am back to 71.03 with logical board on motherboard witout FET's
Firmware actualy:
U1 71.03 MCU
U2 12.11 LCD
Do you mean that these were the versions originally, from the factory? The first one is usually called DSP not MCU; MCU is usually reserved for the removable display.
only U1 and U3 is from factory
In my collection, for the MGX, I have only 72.10 (main, DSP, U1) and 15.04 (MCU, removable display). Would either of these help you at present?
i can try
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb »

mihaigsm2003 wrote: Thu, 12 May 2022, 01:35 I received inverter for repair with non original display, i try with all finded fw from internet
The removable display firmware handles a variety of models. In particular, the 12.xx series seem to attempt to handle VM III, King, MAX 230 V, and MAX 120 V. Running that on a model it's not expecting (PIP-MGX) is likely to cause trouble. In your case, it likely won't recognise the MGX's query name command response, so it likely defaults to code 0, which means it thinks it's talking to a VM III. For the maximum current setting, it checks to see if it's a VM III, and if so, it doesn't send the machine number in the command (VM IIIs can't be paralleled). This is not valid for a PIP-MGX, hence the error.

[ Edit: My guess is that they are working towards unifying the 02.xx display firmware (for Kings and VM IIIs) with the 15.xx MAX display firmware, but since Kings and VM IIIs still seem to come with 02.xx display firmware, I'd say that the unification is not yet complete. So while 12.xx might appear to work on a King or VM III, there may be subtle problems. ]
Coulomb wrote: In my collection, for the MGX, I have only 72.10 (main, DSP, U1) and 15.04 (MCU, removable display). Would either of these help you at present?
i can try
OK. Please find attached. [ Edit: WARNING! These are for rack mounted Axpert Kings, not PIP-MGXs (Axpert MKS IIIs). ]
Attachments
MGX5K71.10.7z
(1.29 MiB) Downloaded 93 times
Remote Panel_Reflash_MCU(15.04).rar
(858.35 KiB) Downloaded 65 times
MG ZS EV 2021 April 2021. Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
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Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by mihaigsm2003 »

coulomb wrote: Thu, 12 May 2022, 09:07
mihaigsm2003 wrote: Thu, 12 May 2022, 01:35 I received inverter for repair with non original display, i try with all finded fw from internet
The removable display firmware handles a variety of models. In particular, the 12.xx series seem to attempt to handle VM III, King, MAX 230 V, and MAX 120 V. Running that on a model it's not expecting (PIP-MGX) is likely to cause trouble. In your case, it likely won't recognise the MGX's query name command response, so it likely defaults to code 0, which means it thinks it's talking to a VM III. For the maximum current setting, it checks to see if it's a VM III, and if so, it doesn't send the machine number in the command (VM IIIs can't be paralleled). This is not valid for a PIP-MGX, hence the error.

[ Edit: My guess is that they are working towards unifying the 02.xx display firmware (for Kings and VM IIIs) with the 15.xx MAX display firmware, but since Kings and VM IIIs still seem to come with 02.xx display firmware, I'd say that the unification is not yet complete. So while 12.xx might appear to work on a King or VM III, there may be subtle problems. ]
Coulomb wrote: In my collection, for the MGX, I have only 72.10 (main, DSP, U1) and 15.04 (MCU, removable display). Would either of these help you at present?
i can try
OK. Please find attached.
Thanks for reply!
i put but firmware on inverter but no luck :oops:
[20220512 12:26:20] Starting MultiSIBControl 1.6 ...
[20220512 12:26:20] Connected serial inverter device: 92932012101612, PI30, 037, VMIII-5000
[20220512 12:26:40] INVERTER ERROR [92932012101612]: Fxx - PV loss; Wxx - Line fail;
Work mode: Battery ; Grid voltage: 0.0V ; Grid frequency: 0.00Hz ; Grid watts: 0W ; Output voltage: 230.0V ; Output frequency: 50.00Hz ; Load active power: 2W ; Load percent: 0.00% ; Battery voltage: 52.90V ; Battery watts: 0W ; Battery SOC: 100% ; PV voltage: 0.0V ; PV watts: 0W ; PV2 voltage: 0.0V ; PV2 watts: 0W ; Inverter bus voltage: 368V ; Inverter temperature: 32°C
[20220512 12:27:22] Write setting MCHGC010 to inverter 92932012101612 ... FAILED
[20220512 12:27:24] Write setting MUCHGC010 to inverter 92932012101612 ... FAILED
from panel same error, with this firmware can't set current charging for both settings 02 and 11 maybe other settings too

mutiSIBControl is recognise as VMIII-5000
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb »

mihaigsm2003 wrote: Thu, 12 May 2022, 17:35 i put but firmware on inverter but no luck :oops:
Err, woops! I assumed that I had a matched set, but it seems that I don't. It's possible that the reseller via Voltronics has supplied some hapless owner the mismatched set, I would not put it past them.

71.10 returns code (042 from QGMN, but display firmware 15.04 doesn't look for those values; only for King values. There was a note I put at the front of the firmware saying that this was from a rack mounted King, but I assumed I made a copy and paste error. But perhaps I didn't. Sigh.

So I don't know what display firmware a PIP-MGX comes with, sorry. I did a quick search, and find I said as much some 8 months ago: https://powerforum.co.za/topic/9947-fir ... ent=105578 . I even admitted back then that the firmware I thought was for MGX is in fact for rack-mounted Kings. Sigh. So many versions to remember.

Edit: Ah. From this post, it seems it comes with 13.xx (in his case, 13.12). Sadly, this is not in my collection.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by Powersony09 »

Hello everyone, I'm new on these forum and I need help.
I have 2 inverters MPPSolar U5648MS connected in Parallel mode. Wen I have power from solar panels above 4kWp and I connect the 5kw load the power of solar panels is oscillate badly from 0 to 3kw on each inverter.
Is possible to have a bug in firmware because is new version of off-grid inverters?
Also I have parameters 14 and 15 that I don't know what is do.
Thanks!
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb »

Powersony09 wrote: Fri, 20 May 2022, 19:51 Hello everyone, I'm new on these forums...
Welcome.
I have 2 inverters MPPSolar U5648MS connected in Parallel mode. Wen I have power from solar panels above 4kWp and I connect the 5kw load the power of solar panels is oscillate badly from 0 to 3kw on each inverter.
I doubt it's a firmware issue. Check the current sharing cables. Those are the red and black twisted pair wires with the green connectors at the ends.
Is possible to have a bug in firmware because is new version of off-grid inverters?
It's nearly guaranteed. And of course, the premature float bugs are proudly provided with every new (and every old) model. But as I say, I suspect that your particular problem isn't firmware.
Also I have parameters 14 and 15 that I don't know what is do.
Huh. The manual doesn't mention these. Looks like I'll have to read the firmware to find out what they mean. But I don't have any of these firmwares in my collection as yet. A quick run though a few manuals for other models didn't reveal anything for settings 14 or 15.

Do you get any prompts at the bottom, like 2 or 3 letters before 3 digits, that sort of thing? Or do the up and down keys scroll through all-letter options?

I suppose you could ask your supplier, and they might get an answer back from Taiwan. But it seems unlikely, sadly.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by Powersony09 »

Thank you for your replay.
If I'm in discharge mode without power from solar panels the inverters work great in paralel mode.
Only wen the power of solar panels increase above 2kwp on both inverter the inverter is apear the problem wen I have the load conneted.
The parameter 14 I have set LbE and I can set to Lbd and the second inverter change inself automatic and the parameter 15 I have Nbd set and if I set to NbE is change automatic to Nbd.
If the solar panel are available and I don't have anything to output the inverter work great and charge with 6kwp the baterry and the power on solar panels are verry stable.
I will check all wiring again to be shure are all wright.
The supplier is not answare to my quastions about the 2 paramaters.
Thanks again.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by mihaigsm2003 »

coulomb wrote: Wed, 11 May 2022, 22:15 In my collection, for the MGX, I have only 72.10 (main, DSP, U1) and 15.04 (MCU, removable display). Would either of these help you at present? [ Edit: these are for rack mounted Axpert Kings. ]
Correct firmware for display! Tested and work 100% ok.
Attachments
Remote Panel_Reflash_MCU(13.13).rar
Display firmware 5048MGX
(861.29 KiB) Downloaded 58 times
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by holmoe »

Has someone used one of those Switches as Battery main switch?
I've found descriptions with 1000A and 48V and even some with 24V max. They are sometimes called Nato-Bone...
and seem to be a clone of original military battery main switches..


This is an AA Cell (R6) on the picture, Contact posts are M10.



Regards,
Holm
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by paulvk »

holmoe wrote: Tue, 31 May 2022, 04:14 Has someone used one of those Switches as Battery main switch?
I use miniature AC circuit breakers rated for 48V DC they go as high as 100 amp you can even get them rated to 400V DC
just need to get the ones with 10ka or higher marked on them.
You can use double , triple , quad breakers with their contacts in series to increase the voltage rating and arc gap
reading the specifications will tell you if they are suitable NO ARK brand has a number of DC types.
Note reading specification for the current trip at DC is important as it will be different to to the AC one
it can be 3 to 5 times the AC trip also for a large battery bank its a good idea to use a HRC fuse in one
of the links of the cells/batteries so that a short at the battery output is accounted for.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb »

paulvk wrote: Tue, 31 May 2022, 08:12 I use miniature AC circuit breakers rated for 48V DC they go as high as 100 amp
I'm not a fan of that idea. You'd need at least two poles in parallel for each leg (must break positive and negative sides), and if you need a HRC fuse anyway, the switch is just slightly more convenient than removing a fuse.

I use removable 28 mm DC rated HRC fuses in mine. The removable fuse holders are not cheap, and fuse ejecting is not rated for disconnection under load, but nothing DC rated is cheap.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by paulvk »

coulomb wrote: Tue, 31 May 2022, 10:58 I'm not a fan of that idea
Been used for more than 30 years in telecommunication where its all 48v dc only ever in the neg 48v side
as positive is grounded , proper safety and engineering practices had to be followed but they must be
the DC rated ones.
Note my system is positive grounded as I have an ex telecoms battery cabinet and 48v to 24v and 12v dc/dc
converters all with positive ground.
coulomb wrote: Tue, 31 May 2022, 10:58 and if you need a HRC fuse anyway
It is a bolt in type that forms part of the links in the battery a last resort if the short is close to the battery output terminals.
The NOARK Ex9BP-JX are rated to 250v dc https://www.noark-electric.eu/en/products/110139
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb »

paulvk wrote: Tue, 31 May 2022, 14:29 Been used for more than 30 years in telecommunication
Huh. I never knew that. But I never did spend much time inside exchanges.
where its all 48v dc
Even after the relay era? I guess there is a lot of inertia.
only ever in the neg 48v side
I have to admit I'm not fond of that regulation. Or countries that insist on switching neutrals.
The NOARK Ex9BP-JX are rated to 250v dc https://www.noark-electric.eu/en/products/110139
Yes, they're good for PV isolating and protection. I have many of them myself.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by holmoe »

...but 20A capability only?

I've found that on Ebay: https://www.ebay.de/itm/334408075288

..at least I've found the 63A Version interesting.

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by mihaigsm2003 »

Hi, i need any firmware for display MCU for inverter hybrid. I need to convert display from offgrid to ongrid (hybrid), ex lvx6048 mcu firmware. Is totaly other protocol between processors.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb »

mihaigsm2003 wrote: Wed, 01 Jun 2022, 04:18 Hi, i need any firmware for display MCU for inverter hybrid. I need to convert display from offgrid to ongrid (hybrid), ex lvx6048 mcu firmware.
Are you saying that you have a spare off-grid removable display, and want to use it with an on-grid LV6048 inverter? I don’t know much about the on-grid firmware. I would guess that the hardware is similar, though the display typically has different LCD segments, for example to represent power flow to the grid. So I don't believe that this will work.

Is totaly other protocol between processors.
On-grid inverters from Voltronic seem to have several different protocols, none of them the same (sometimes similar) as the off-grid protocol. I imagine that split phase models like the LV6048 might have a few extra commands or response fields to report on or control the two AC inputs and outputs. I don't collect on-grid firmware any more, and have never noticed split phase firmware update files. These models are common only in North America and a few other countries, for obvious reasons, so I don't tend to hear about them.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by paulvk »

The switching of both positive and negative makes not much sense when all the
metal surrounding the equipment is the positive battery and even though
a positive wire was run to equipment it was grounded when it got there
which seems odd when you think about earth loops yet it worked fine.
With a floating battery no earth system and no common buss I can see
switching both reasonable. I like having the battery in respect to ground
as it means you will not end up with it much more than 60 volts above
ground in case of a fault eg loss of insulation between primary and secondary
in a transformer putting 240v ac on the DC side.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb »

paulvk wrote: Wed, 01 Jun 2022, 07:54 The switching of both positive and negative makes not much sense when all the
metal surrounding the equipment is the positive battery
Agreed. But it surprises me that a large battery would ever be grounded to metal. It means that every accidental short to metal means a high current arc, UV flash, flying copper snot, and soiled underwear. As far as I know, all EV batteries are floating and have insulation checking.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by Revlac »

I just thought this looks interesting and thought I better check a few things.
Over the years I have used Ex Telecom batteries and chargers with great success, batteries were stuffed many years ago and have since moved on, still have the large lead acid batter boxes and 50Amp rectifiers, and need some of the control boards repairing, just looking, and yes they all switch the negative either by circuit breaker or by fuse link to the 48v battery bank.
From checking I could not find them grounded either positive or negative.
And my battery banks have always been floating, no issues.
The Noark circuit breakers are great. :D
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by paulvk »

Revlac wrote: Wed, 01 Jun 2022, 10:35 From checking I could not find them grounded either positive or negative.
All the metalwork in exchanges are grounded so mounting anything grounds it.
The power supplies do not normally have an internal ground , if mains powered
then the metal case would be connected to mains earth but it does need some
investigation when mounting in grounded racks with positive battery grounded
RCDs can trip.
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