PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

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tahir
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Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Post by tahir »

5kw inverter showing PV input volt without PV connection and also 23 volt coming on inverter PV input connector.
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Cactus
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Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Post by Cactus »

Hi all,

Firstly all the best 2023 to everyone. It's been a while since I last posted but I have been lurking on and off.

I am trying to repair an old (MPPT heatsink on top) 5Kva unit that keeps coming up with error 6 output voltage too high which it apparently is as it pops the suppressor cap C54 across the output before shutting down. I have gone through everything mentioned in the service manual (section 3.4) recommended to check/ replace for this error to no avail.

Has anyone had any success repairing fault 6 and if so what advice could you offer me.

Thanks, Luke.
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coulomb
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Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Post by coulomb »

Cactus wrote: Sat, 21 Jan 2023, 20:26Has anyone had any success repairing fault 6 ...
A quick search doesn't reveal much, though I mention it in this Power Forum post.
MG ZS EV 2021 April 2021.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
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Cactus
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Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Post by Cactus »

Hi Coulomb,

Thank you for putting me on to the the Power Forum thread, I didn't even think of looking there even though I'm also registered there as this is my go to for repair info.

I messed around with it a bit more yesterday and I notice that it shows the battery as being only half charged although the battery voltage is above 52v, so I'm thinking this has something to do with the output being too high. So I will start looking at the DC side why the false DC reading is showing.
I also know that it is a fault on the main board and not a firmware issue as the control board does not show this fault when I test it on another main board.

I will update here if or when I figure this out.
Thanks again for the help.

P.S. Is there a specific place where alternative components are listed? I have kept track of some of the substitutes I've come across as well as what I've found to work and will gladly share this info if it might help someone else get up and running.
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Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Post by coulomb »

Cactus wrote: Sun, 22 Jan 2023, 13:11P.S. Is there a specific place where alternative components are listed? I have kept track of some of the substitutes I've come across as well as what I've found to work and will gladly share this info if it might help someone else get up and running.
I think just post it here as a reply, and I'll link to it from the index.
MG ZS EV 2021 April 2021.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
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Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

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As far as DC/DC mosfets (Q11 etc) I've used the following with success:
SUP70040E-GE3 100v 120A
IRFB4110pbf 100v 180A
HY3810P 100v 180A
TK100E10N1 100v 100A
CSD19535KCS 100v 150A

Bus IGBT's (Q27-Q30) and buck mosfet Q31/32:
(ST)GW80H65DFB 650v 80A (I've used both TO-3 packages)
(ST)GW60H65DFB 650v 60A (I've used both TO-3 packages)
IRGP4066Dpbf 600v 75A
I have also come across the following parts that seamed to work perfectly well in inverters that I have repaired:
(FGW)50G60HD 600v 50A
(FGW)75G60HD 600v 75A
FGHL75T65 650v 75A

These are the more expensive components I've had experience with, I also used equivalents on some of the drivers too but there's no reason to substitute unless original parts are not available.
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Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Post by Cactus »

If anyone has an old early main board (with both Q31 and Q32 as well as both Ac and battery switching power supplies) lying around could you please check the values of R260 and R276 for me?

I have found that someone has replaced these with 20K resistors on the board I'm trying to repair and my only other reference is a spare much newer post 2017 board with a different layout and no AC power supply. On the newer board they are 49K9 resistors but I'm not sure if that is the correct value for the older version too and would like confirmation before replacing them.
Both resistors are near U16 and TX2.

Thanks in advance.
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Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Post by Kamil said »

High frequency solar Inverters(High PV voltage) block diagram
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Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

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Cactus wrote: Wed, 25 Jan 2023, 02:59 If anyone has an old early main board (with both Q31 and Q32 as well as both Ac and battery switching power supplies) lying around
That's me. 🙋‍♂️
could you please check the values of R260 and R276 for me?
R260 is indeed 20kΩ (I'll fix the schematic soon) [ Edit: done. ] . The SMD code is 30C, perhaps why it was shown as 30k before.
R276 is 1kΩ (that seems very low for doing the same job, but it has the impedance of the opto-coupler to add to that resistor).
I have found that someone has replaced these with 20K resistors on the board I'm trying to repair and my only other reference is a spare much newer post 2017 board with a different layout and no AC power supply.
On a model with no AC power supply, I would not expect there to be any equivalent of R260. So I'd say they re-used that parts designator for something else.
MG ZS EV 2021 April 2021.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
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Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

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Once again thank you very much Coulomb, you are a gentleman in the truest sense.
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Kamil said
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Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Post by Kamil said »

[ Edit: These are for non-VM models; VM models seem to have a single connector, though the pinouts may be similar. ]

Control Board Channels pinwise explanation:

Channel 9 (CN9, mainly dedicated to analog input signals)

1: L Voltage Grid (fraction)

2: N Voltage grid (fraction)

3: + CT1 signal (Vac out current transformer)

4: - for the above

5: -Vbat (fraction)

6: +Vbat

7:L Vac out average

8:N Vac out average (= GND)

9: L Inverter Vac out (fraction)

10: N Inverter Vac out (fraction)

11: + Vlem (LEM is the HALL module that measures Grid current)

12: - for above

13: V Bus+ (fraction)

14: - for above

15: Connected to R226 and it is to pin 7 of CN6 (TO CAN POWER)

Channel 10: (CN10, dedicated to Control board power supply and signals from the different NTCs)

1: NTC1 (temperature sensor under the HF power transformer)

2: NTC4 (temperature sensor in heatsink of IGBT's transformer, AC and components of the Bus Buck High)

3: NTC3 (temperature sensor of the heatsink of the MOSFETS on the battery side)

4,5:-12V

8,9,10,11: GND

6,7,12,13: +12V

14,15,16: +5V

Channel 11: (CN11, dedicated to digital inputs/outputs)

1: U3 driver activation output (QB2 AC Inverter Bridge, upper live)

2: U1 driver activation output (QA1 AC Inverter Bridge, upper neutral)

3: U4 driver activation output (Qd2 AC Inverter Bridge, lower live)

4: U2 driver activation output (QC1 AC Inverter Bridge, lower neutral)

5: Buck driver activation output

6: U19 opto activation output (activation of the SG3525, battery side MOSFETs driver and HF transformer output IGBTs)

7.- U18 opto activation output (reverse battery MOSFET activation, where fitted)

8.- Fan speed control output

9.- RPM signal input fans

10.- U11 opto signal input (indicates AC input is present)

11.- Relay activation output (inverter relay, where fitted)

12.- Relay activation output (output/load relay)

13.- Relay activation output ("safety" / AC-in relays)

14: U17 opto activation output (Bus Soft Start Control)

15: Q59 activation output (Shutdown from CPU)

16: U13 opto activation input (AC Start switch signal, high = switch on)

[ Edited Coulomb: Minor edits as requested by the author. ]
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Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Post by komprez »

Hi ;)
I fixed the inverter (IGBT, Mosfets) but something strange is happening, a strange noise from the high voltage coil, like crackling? The inverter works fine with no errors but it worries me. The most interesting thing is that after replacing the control board it is OK, so I suspect that something on the control board is damaged. Can you help?
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Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

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komprez wrote: Thu, 26 Jan 2023, 21:47a strange noise from the high voltage coil, like crackling?
Do you mean the large DC-DC transformer, or the bus soft start circuit, or one of the other transformers or inductors?

This sounds vaguely familiar; knowing the coil involved may jog my memory or aid with a search.
MG ZS EV 2021 April 2021.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
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Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Post by komprez »

Hi Coulomb ;)

it's about the coil in the AC track, exactly the one in the photo.
coil.png
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In addition, I checked the waveforms with an oscilloscope and I behave strangely at the zero crossing, moreover, see for yourself in the video (you can hear this sound)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOnvavp2ofo
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Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Post by komprez »

I'm starting to suspect a capacitor? Only I do not know on which pins the control signals from the processor board come out
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Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

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komprez wrote: Fri, 27 Jan 2023, 01:36 In addition, I checked the waveforms with an oscilloscope and I behave strangely at the zero crossing,....
That's probably the reason for the noise. It's like the narrowest pulses aren't always turning on reliably, or the neutral is switching over late some of the time.

Kamil posted the control board signals a few posts back. I'd check the neutral pulses first. My guess would be resistance in series with the signal, resulting in a delay of the neutral square wave. Only the active (Line) output is PWM switched. I'd guess gate driver components, since the waveform seems ok except near the zero crossings.

The positive going and negative going crossings seem different, which might be a clue. But I can't immediately think what it points to.
MG ZS EV 2021 April 2021.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
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Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Post by komprez »

Gates controller on mainboard will be 100% ok, because just replacing the board with the processor solves the problem, so I suspect that one of the control elements on this board may be damaged. I initially compared the 2 boards with a meter in the ohmmeter and diode mode and there is not much difference, so maybe it will only show the truth during operation. I checked yesterday with thermal imaging and these two boards also heat up the same. I'll let you know when I find something.
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Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

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komprez wrote: Fri, 27 Jan 2023, 15:07 just replacing the board with the processor solves the problem, so I suspect that one of the control elements on this board may be damaged.
There are some single flipflop chips on the control board (5 pins: power and ground, in, inverted out, and clock), a 74LVC1G80 (SMD code VTL) in an SOT23-5 package that seem to be associated with the PWM outputs. Perhaps they want all the outputs to change at the same time, even if that affects the PWM slightly. There are diodes connected to the clock inputs. I never did fully trace that part of the circuit; the tracks disappear under components on the top side, and I could never find where important ones went.

From a chicken scratching, EPWM2A goes through flipflop U19, then pins 7 and 10 of U12, before connecting to CN11 pin 1. Diode D31 is on its clock input (pin 1). The cathodes of about 5 diodes (all BAT54, SMD code L4) seem to be commoned, with R174 (2kΩ) to ground at the junction of these cathodes. Where the cathode of the diodes go is one of the things I could not trace. Ah, but I find inconsistent other scratchings, so use with caution.

In any case, one of these diodes or flipflops could be the problem. This would be tricky to diagnose, I imagine, unless one of the diodes was obviously faulty.
MG ZS EV 2021 April 2021.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
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Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Post by komprez »

Exactly :) Just found this section. I will try to replace these flip-flops, if that doesn't help, I'll take care of the diodes. We'll see what comes out :)
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Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Post by komprez »

I did a little investigation, I completely replaced the section with flip-flops from the second board (good working ), diodes and ULN2003 and it didn't help, I also suspect the processor, unless these signals go through some elements.

EDIT: Checked signals and it's going stright to processor - carp....
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