Zoe servicing in Sydney

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doggy
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Zoe servicing in Sydney

Post by doggy »

Our Zoe, purchased in 2018 (2017 model) has just had its annual service. It is great there is a new service possibility for Zoes (and Kangoos) in Sydney.

Previously, we had our services done at Col Crawford at Collaroy on the Northern Beaches. Crawfords made a conscious effort to focus on EVs a few years back and as well as Renault EVs also service Hyundai (and possibly other EVs). The do an even broader range of ICE vehicles.

They are a very big service outlet and we have been generally happy with them.

However, over 6 months ago their head mechanic Andy and another mechanic Luke, both well trained in Renault EVs, left and formed their own business called C&C Motorworks. They are also in Collaroy and very accessible.

I had always been happy with Andy and found him a real straight-shooter who never used "mumbo jumbo" and honestly told things as they were. So, when another Zoe owner reported good things about the new organisation, I was keen to give them a go. Our Zoe is still under warranty but that is not an issue. They have all the appropriate scantools and workshop manuals. Plus plenty of Renault and Zoe experience.

So how did it go? Great! Cost was lower. I asked them to do some specific things such as dry lube all hinges, latches and seat slides and not to do others (such as checking 12V because I replaced the battery with an AGM earlier this year). They did everything I asked, plus "normal" things and did not do stuff that I didn't want. Being a small (but more than adequate) workshop, we were able to book in for a specific time and then go for a walk and coffee and everything was finished in less than 90mins. We did not expect this huge benefit. At Crawfords, due to the large number of bookings, we had to go at the start of the day and pick up at the end. So, this avoided a trip home plus return for us and also meant that we needn't have taken our second EV for ferry duties. We'll know next year.

So I am delighted to recommend C&C Motorworks. I have no vested or other interest in them so consider myself totally unbiased. However, I do like plain speaking, honesty and a really professional job. I think they have three mechanics (maybe more). Access is good and uncluttered.

Here are their details:

C&C Motorworks
Unit 1 - 111 Old Pittwater Road
Brookvale New South Wales 2100

Phone: (02) 8970 2749
Email: service@ccmotorworks.com.au
Website: www.ccmotorworks.com.au

Cheers,
David Kerr
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LouB
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Re: Zoe servicing in Sydney

Post by LouB »

That's actually very good news. I was wondering how long it would take before independent servicing of EVs (that is: independent of the manufacturers centres) became available. Our Renault Zoe is due its 4th annual service in late September and looks likely to be needing new rear brake linings. I spoke with the guys that service our remaining ICE vehicle but they are leery about working on an EV. Its a droll thing really, as I get tyres and wheel alignments on the Zoe done at local Jax Tyres with no problem. Maybe I should also ask them about the brakes.
I really can't see, once warranty period is over, why any good mechanic should not undertake mechanical repairs to wheels, brakes steering aircon etc.

Because of distances we have had our Zoe serviced at Peter Warren (Warwick Farm). Can't say anything really negative about them except that I would prefer someone closer and cheaper.

In the good old days I used to do all vehicle servicing myself. Once cars went electronic things got too complicated and regulation bound. The other day I went online to see if I could source suitable front brake pads and rear brake shoes/linings for the Zoe but most information was from overseas and there was some confusion as to which part numbers were the correct ones for our model:

(RENAULT ZOE ZEN, INTENS Auto 06/2016~10/2020 4 Door Hatchback FWD ELECTRIC 0.0 litre, R90 {65kW – 41kWh}).

I would be grateful to anyone who can provide this information.

Cheers,
Lou
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Re: Zoe servicing in Sydney

Post by brendon_m »

Can't help immediately with the rears as there doesn't appear to be a listing, but the fronts are as follows
16601091306235271853594588234066.jpg
16601091306235271853594588234066.jpg (3.01 MiB) Viewed 926 times
Looks like you have to look for the brand on the caliper to work out which ones you need.
doggy
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Re: Zoe servicing in Sydney

Post by doggy »

Amazing you need to replace pads and linings. The mechanic reckons ours will do well over 100K.
Have you been doing big kms or lots of very heavy braking?

Cheers,
Dave
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LouB
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Re: Zoe servicing in Sydney

Post by LouB »

Hi Dave,
Yes it surprised me too, but at our last annual service I was told that new rear linings would be soon needed. The car has only done some 25,000 k, though a lot of it is in hilly terrain where we live. Neither of us rides the brake nor do we practice screeching stops. I have lately noticed an increased sluggishness to come to full stop so something is not right. As I mentioned to Brendon I will try removing wheels and hubs and see if it is really linings wear or stuck automatic adjusters.

And I thought that these electrics were simply foolproof, drive and go machines! ...He...He.

Cheers
Lou
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Re: Zoe servicing in Sydney

Post by doggy »

We recently had our 4yr service and have also done 25,000. They said there was zero wear on front and rear brakes. That's the new service guy with the full Renault Zoe training.

Col Crawfords last year reported the same (low wear on all brakes).

We also do plenty of hills but I suppose it depends upon whether or not you reach the 43kilowatt regen limit downhill and gently braking. Worth a check sometime while monitoring the regen as you come down a typical hill. Perhaps they are really steep and therefor your "real" brakes are being used a lot? The transition on Zoe from regen to real brakes seems to be so gentle I cannot feel it through the pedal. I think you can use CanZE in brake record mode and it will give graphs of actual brake usage on a drive. But I have not actually tried it other than once when we got the car.

Our Tesla has huge regen (around 100kW or more) and we almost never touch brakes on that. It is true one pedal driving (went from sea level Sydney to Canbetta, around town and return about 800km and only touched the brake pedal twice! Unlike the Zoe, the brake pedal is only the friction brakes whereas Zoe does regen and then blends to friction.
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Re: Zoe servicing in Sydney

Post by LouB »

Hi Brendon,
Thanks for the info. I thought I had replied before,but when I looked through the thread I couldn't find my post. I must have pressed the wrong key, or something. All I had to say was that I was considering removing wheel and hub to see the brand and parts number on the brake shoes but because my wife drives the Zoe almost every day it is hard to find a suitable time. Alternatively I could ask the mechanic to give me back the old parts at the next service.

Cheers
Lou
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Re: Zoe servicing in Sydney

Post by LouB »

It wonder how many other people have had mechanical work done on their Zoe (or any EV for that matter) at NON dealer workshops. My only experience so far is with tyres and wheel balancing and alignment at my local Jax Tyres. Lately I had to get 2 new rear tyres. There were only problems with one but I decided to go for a matched pair. The Michelin Energy tyres that were original on the car are no longer available so I went with MIchelin Primacy4 ST. They seem Ok, perhaps just a tad noisier but it could be my imagination. The reason I chose them was that the premium Michelin Pilots retail at an exorbitant price and because I read that the Hyundai Kona had been upgraded from its original issue tyres to the Primacy4. So I figured they should
also be ok in other EVs.
I had no issues with the work carried out by Jax Tyres.

If anyone has experienced work done at non dealer, and especially non EV specialist shops, it would be interesting to know what work was done and how satisfactorily it turned out.
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Lou
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Re: Zoe servicing in Sydney

Post by antiscab »

I'm only on my 3rd set of tyres - and that's all the work that's been done on the Zoe.
The "servicing" (all inspection items) I've done myself
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Re: Zoe servicing in Sydney

Post by doggy »

Given antiscab has done 103,000+ without brake pads/shoes changed and that mine are barely worn at 25K and a friend with a Zoe at 55K has just been told his have hardly any wear, I would question being told pads and shoes need replacing. It sounds like an ICE routine change based on kilometres type deal. Or really heavy brake use which would be a bit unlikely. I would certainly want to see some proof of need.
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Re: Zoe servicing in Sydney

Post by brendon_m »

The number of times someone has come to my workshop for us to replace their brake pads because they've been told elsewhere that the pads out worn out and we pull out a set of 50%+ pads makes me disappointed in society
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Re: Zoe servicing in Sydney

Post by LouB »

Today I'll be pulling the rear brake drums from the Zoe to see for myself how much wear there is on the linings. I suspect that they're ok and that the adjusters are just way off.
Even if the Zoe has holes in the backplate ( don't know until I have a look) to operate the adjuster knurled wheel, I prefer to pull the drums to visually check the linings. Have to do it now, before booking for our 4th service and being slugged for new brake shoes and labour.

Completely agree with Brendon
I don't mind paying (even quite a lot) for something that needs doing or replacing, it just riles me to find I'm being ripped off. Yeah... I know, it's the accepted business model these days and I'm just being naive.

Cheers
Lou
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Re: Zoe servicing in Sydney

Post by doggy »

All my previous (ICE) cars have produced brake dust around the wheels. Zero in four years on the Zoe front wheels which fits with the minimal wear. Of course, harder to tell with drum brakes on the rear of Zoe. Also hard to know if they typically wear faster than disk pads.

My last 2 reminders for 4th service told me how they were going to change the spark plugs, change engine oil, change coolant, check exhaust ....on my Renault Zoe ZE40 electric (actually written on the email). When I twice queried what they were really going to do and to perhaps improve their automated systems I received no reply. A LONG way to go for some of these service organisations!
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Re: Zoe servicing in Sydney

Post by LouB »

I have now pulled the drums off the Zoe. The news is good and bad. The bad is that it appears that a certified Renault dealership/repairer is trying to scam me. The good is that forewarned is forearmed.
Here is a pic of the brake shoe/linings from the driver side rear wheel. The only thing I did before taking the photo was to spray the shoes with brake cleaner to wash off some very light dust.
The linings, measured with a digital caliper, showed remaining thickness of 4.80 mm average on both leading and trailing shoe. The linings on the curb side wheel were practically identical. In the interest of thoroughness I also inspected the disc brake pads on the front wheels. These all had approx 10.50 mm remaining lining on both inside and outside pads. If this is the rate of wear after 4 years driving they should last another 30+ years :D.
Zoe DS rear brake 01.jpg
Zoe DS rear brake 01.jpg (2.24 MiB) Viewed 809 times

The whole job, though time consuming, was easy; hardest thing was getting the seized-on dust caps off without damage. When reassembling, I put anti-seize compound on these and other threaded parts. One bugbear is how tyre service places over-torque wheel nuts with their air impact wrenches. I had to place an extension on my 600 mm breaker bar to loosen a couple of wheel bolts. The recommended torque for these bolts is 105 Nm and I'm sure the ones I struggled with were tightened to well in excess of 180 Nm. Not too good for alloy wheels!.

Cheers
Lou
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Re: Zoe servicing in Sydney

Post by doggy »

Hi Lou,

Wheel nuts- a constant problem with tyre places, even when you tell them what you want them torqued to.

So, you join the growing group of Zoes with almost no brake wear. Your measurements are about the same as mine a few months after purchase.

Definitely over 100K predicted at that rate.

Glad you checked and did not let the service people at it.

Regds,
Dave
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Re: Zoe servicing in Sydney

Post by coulomb »

LouB wrote: Mon, 15 Aug 2022, 13:08 The whole job, though time consuming, was easy;
So was there a problem with the adjusters that explains the increasing pressure needed to stop? And is that pressure back to normal now?

My apologies if it's obvious from the photo or your explanation; I know next to nothing about brakes.
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Re: Zoe servicing in Sydney

Post by LouB »

To Coulomb,

I don't now think there was any problem with the adjusters. Just autosuggestion (my overthinking it) once I was told that new rear brake shoes/linings would need to be fitted by the next service.
Driving the Zoe I normally practically coast to a stop using regen and only apply the brakes lightly at the very end. When told I would be up for new shoes I tried some hard braking sessions and felt it was less effective than our ICE Subaru. On reflection, the behaviour is probably normal. The Subaru has disc brakes all round and the EV is a heavy vehicle. Additionally, under heavy braking, regen is shut off and the hydraulic brake system takes over completely so behaviour becomes totally dependent on pressure applied to the brake pedal.

To test the adjustments I measured the at-rest diameter of the shoes + linings and each closely matched the Renault specified 227.5 mm +or- 0.1 mm. I refitted each drum (without the 36 mm fixing nut) and spun it to make sure it moved freely. Then, ensured that with handbrake lever at first click there was some resistance. Turned with difficulty at 2 clicks and held fast at 3 clicks.

So, I am satisfied that everything appears to be working normally and within spec.

Cheers
Lou
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Re: Zoe servicing in Sydney

Post by doggy »

Re "and only apply the brakes lightly at the very end", in that case your are not actually applying the friction brakes. You are just applying extra regen, up to the limit of 43kW, at which point the friction brakes start to be applied.

Almost every other EV does it differently, but apart from LEAF they have all been later on the scene. I think Renault did it the way they did because, at the introduction of the Zoe in 2012, they were looking at people transitioning as seamlessly as possible from ICE to EV. My wife certainly appreciated it working the way it does when we got Zoe. Slightly more regen than engine braking on our ICE (then diesel) with a seamless transition as you gently press the brake pedal.

So, your driving style is hardly using the friction brakes at all as born out by your measurements. What a pity your service provider has turned out to be so untrustworthy.
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Re: Zoe servicing in Sydney

Post by LouB »

Dave you're right.
My wife and I are both precautious drivers. Long gone are the days when I would show off doing double de-clutching (no syncro in first gear in 59" VW Beetle) and handbrake wheelie turns. These days cars are just a means to an end, transport from A to B. I would not even want to own one if we didn't live in a rural area with no public transport, 11 Km from the nearest town (Campbelltown NSW).

It will probably not happen in my lifetime, but I would give up cars like a shot if practical, fully autonomous vehicles came on the scene.

They would not be free, of course nothing is, but think of all the lovely negatives:
No cost of buying a vehicle.
No need to garage same.
No depreciation.
No need for driving licence.
No cost of registration or insurance.
No service, maintenance or repair costs.
No being ripped off by dishonest dealerships.
And the list could surely go on.....

I envisage calling for a vehicle on the cell phone (a small car for personal transportation or van when carrying more stuff), leaving it at destination and hailing another for the return journey. Even if there was a breakdown, you could just sit in the first, maybe read a book (book = legacy analogue information/entertainment device) while another autonomous vehicle would be automatically on its way to you.

Ahh, such stuff as dreams are made of.... (apologies to Will Shakey).

Cheers
Lou
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Re: Zoe servicing in Sydney

Post by LouB »

The Zoe has been booked in at the Renault dealership for its 4th annual service. I have decided to make this the last time I will allow them to rip me off. From now on I'll be doing all checks and maintenance myself. Major mechanical repairs will be farmed out to independent local mechanics.
As it happens, all manufacturer warranties (including for traction battery) will expire in one year's time. So after that I am up for total costs anyhow.
Registration inspections are the same as for ICE vehicles, so almost any mechanic can sign off on them. Damage through accidents are (supposedly) covered by comprehensive vehicle insurance.
The only supplies that I have been constantly charged for are:
Cabin air/pollen filter
Coolant fluid
Brake fluid
I can guarantee that the last two have never been actually supplied because these fluids have always been up to the Max mark before the car was put in for 'service'.

To make sure that I am able to service the Zoe by myself I have sourced and purchased a spare pollen filter and small quantities of coolant and brake fluid that match those specified by Renault.

BTW I don't believe that changing the pollen filter every year is always necessary. I reckon it really depends on the condition of the existing filter and that is itself dependent on total yearly mileage and dusty conditions. For instance: the one now in our Zoe still looks practically clean and new after 1 year with only approx 5,000 Km. But, even if you are not concerned by pollen, it's still good to have an adequate filter installed since it also prevents dust and grit from getting into the fan motor.

Interested in your comments re: doing your own EV servicing.

Cheers
Lou
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Re: Zoe servicing in Sydney

Post by TomZoe »

Hi Lou

I am into 5th year - I bought the car March 2018.

I changed the 12v battery proactively in March 2020 and will do this again 2023 (well I will tell mechanic to).

I have car serviced at a private VW/Mercedes mechanic who agreed to take on Zoe.

This year he did change the brake fluid.

Next year I think that the coolant is due as well as 12v battery.

I do buy the pollen filter myself and give to mechanic.

I would never do myself as not mechanically minded but the mechanic only charges in the 100s - batter will be more next year and perhaps coolant also.

I've done nearly 49000 kms.

I live in Darwin and I have a work car too but I love Zoe so don't drive the work car very much at all except for out of town trips!

regards,
Tom
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Re: Zoe servicing in Sydney

Post by LouB »

Hi Tom,
sounds like you're doing very well with your Zoe. We like it too and, during its 4 years has been trouble free. I'm not really keen to do a lot of work on it myself, getting too old for that caper. But I'll do minor things when it saves some money and especially, lots of time. Every time it goes for service at the Renault dealer it takes them around 4 to 5 hours before they call me to say it is ready. I have to hang about in the vicinity because it is too far to go home to wait. I suspect that when the EV comes in for service, the mechanics light up with a big grin and just go for a long tea break and then, after a decent interval, phone me and slug me for doing bugger all.

As mentioned, I have booked it in for its 4th service but before taking it there I'am going to ask if they intend to do the brake fluid change and if it is really needed. I hope that if I don't get it done they will not refuse to stamp my logbook.

Cheers
Lou
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Re: Zoe servicing in Sydney

Post by doggy »

My fluid checked as almost no water in it and so not changed at 4th service. Logbook still stamped okay.

I've now purchased my own brake fluid moisture detector so I can keep an eye on both Zoe and Tesla.

One of the pleasant things about C&C Motorworks is that there is a scheduled time and then they focus on your car. I no longer need to leave it with the big dealer, early in the day, then await the call to come back at the end of the day. So, I save at least 90mins travel per service and the service only takes 90mins.
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Re: Zoe servicing in Sydney

Post by LouB »

Getting back to the topic of servicing in Sydney: options to use independent service shops appear to be expanding. Besides C&C Motorworks, (already mentioned by Dave) I have now belatedly discovered that the mycar Tyre and Auto chain has committed to EV servicing. At the moment it has 7 EV Service Ready Locations in NSW. and plans to have 30 Australian outlets EV ready very soon. I have no idea how reliable mycar is as I have never used them. The closest EV Ready one for us is in Wollongong, so a bit of a drive, but in the Zoe it is still possible to get comfortably there and back on a full charge. Other EV Ready NSW locations are: Brookvale, Chatswood, Hurstville, Pagewood Eastgardens, Parramatta and Seven Hills.
Whether one should use them or not, it's encouraging to see that more avenues for servicing our EVs are finally emerging.
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