PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

[weber]

I assume that the KettleKomp™ voltage is tested against PBCV and raw battery voltage against PSDV. Am I right?

No. All comparisons related to either low cutoff voltage (PBCV) or back-to-utility voltage (PSDV) use the compensated battery voltage. That includes the low battery warning that appears below the low cutoff voltage plus 0.5 V, and goes away above the low cutoff voltage plus 1.0 V.

[teba]

Thanks to both of you.
Now I've got it.

[Suncatcher1]

Hi. I'm having trouble to connect with my inverter with the com board. I used pin 1 and 2 for tx and rx and 8 for ground. But it doesn't want to connect via a USB RS232 adaptor. What is the problem to connect it straight to the 6 pins connector on the board? Why is the opto coupler so important? I bought the inverter second hand and there was no cable and that's the reason i have to fiddle around. What could happen if i connect it straight to the white connector?
Thanks for help
Marcel

[coulomb]

I bought the inverter second hand and there was no cable and that's the reason i have to fiddle around.

I assume you've made a cable from the pin-out in this post.

Why is the opto coupler so important? ...
What could happen if i connect it straight to the white connector?

It's not clear to me, but I believe that the power supply common ("digital earth") is essentially connected to the negative end of the DC bus. This alternately connects to neutral or active of the inverter output, depending on whether the output is active-positive (one half cycle) or active-negative (the other half cycle), respectively. So for 10 ms it is at neutral potential (a few volts AC with respect to earth, depending on wiring and loads), and for 10 ms it is a negative half-cycle of 230 VAC.

In short, I believe you'd fry your interface, possibly also your computer, and there is a chance of shock and/or fire. Plus, the signal would not get through. But that's about it

This is what makes the PV input connections on the 450 V and 500 V max PV input models lethal, even at night. It also seems to be the cause of a bus over-voltage problem when there is leakage to earth from wet solar panels in the PIP-5048MG / Axpert MKS II models, resulting in fault code 08. It seems that the voltage from the negative end of the DC bus (where you want to connect, in effect), is getting rectified and fed into the bus capacitors.

So you absolutely need the opto-couplers; either those on the communications board or your own. But it seems to me that you may as well use the ones on the communications board.

Lots of people have trouble connecting to the comm port at first; read through the relevant posts and eliminate all potential problems.
For example, is your USB to serial adapter one that uses the known-compatible PL2303 chip?
Can you see your commands coming through on the PIP's RXD pin (pin 2 of the 8-pin RJ-45 connector)?

[maxo]

Hi to everyone here.
I 'm new here in this blog, neverlless, I have checked already all what was written about the fault code 08 here .
This is probably question for one of the members with similar problem or maybe for Coulomb directly.

What is the problem: I have ORVALDI MKS5K MPPT 3000W, 48V, 4/5kVA, installed originally back in year 2014, with lead acid battery's 48V system- 180Ah, solar panels on roof 3,6 kWpp. All operated by line or from solar/batterys. All was OK until in year 2017 when I have problems with the TX6, D62 and souroundings on main board, only solution then was to change complete main board in July 2017 and since then up to 1 month ago, all works as need to.
Then sporadically starts to happened fault 08, which could only be reset by hard reset (battery off) and after restart it works OK until to another fault 08.
Mainly fault comes out, when in the morning between 8-9 AM at very high sun in this days, battery charge reach 52,0V (setup in parameter) and when unit want to change the supply of house loads from line supply to battery/solar supply.
Fault 08 comes out very sporadically, one or two - three days with no fault and then (especially on days with strong sun already in the early morning) happened last days every day.
Just today I have encountered, what really happened in that moment: when battery voltage reach 53,9 or 54,0 V and charge step up to upper charge setup of 58,0V , suddenly starts to charge the battery's with very high current (setup max is to 60A) - at that moment it could be heard the bubbles in the battery's. Of coarse (thank's good) the fault 08 comes out imidiatelly (otherwise probably the battery would explode).
After restart (hard reset) unit works like never has nothing happened, but it is busy to do that all and all again.

So on first view, mine problem is not like any similar what's already described here in this forum happening around fault 08.

Just for info: PIP operates still with original software version U1= 52.20 and U2=01.24 ( I was not upgrade it when it was not needed at all, when all works ).

I still have old (original main board with missing TX 6 as upper described) and maybe somebody could help me to trace, where this battery charge control is located (is it on the main board or it is somewhere on the SCC or other boards).

My intention is to repair the unit in any case, first need to locate the electronics parts, after then would order possible problematic parts and then reassemble all needed when spare parts will be in hand.
Otherwise I' m dealing with hobby electronics and have all needed instrumentation and parts around, but anyway

Please help if possible

Many thanks in advance

maxo

[dinu_tiberiu_george]

Hy, I have a parralel configuration of Two Mppsolar 5048ms "58.4v" version (not 64v)
Can i update with this firmware? viewtopic.php?p=77943#p77943

[coulomb]

Two Mppsolar 5048ms "58.4v" version (not 64v) Can i update with this firmware? viewtopic.php?p=77943#p77943

Yes. Though you should first check that your present firmware is version 74.XX.

[lopezjm2001]

I just upgraded my old PIP4048MS (purchased September 2015) with a Victron Energy MultiPlus II Inverter Charger 48 5000 70-50 IP21.
The SCC in my PIP4048MS smoked itself about a year ago and MppSolar will not supply me with a new SCC as the inverter is too old.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Victron-Ene ... 2749.l2649. I was amazed how compatible the connections are. Also needed a seperate Smart MPPT solar charger. This inverter can export power to the grid or it can just be setup as an off-grid inverter. And this inverter is actually designed for lithium batteries. Weighs a ton (29kg) compared to the old PIP4048MS. Built in India and designed in the Netherlands this inverter feels like quality. And this inverter is CEC approved which means you can get solar panels installed by a CEC Accredited solar installer and the cost of the solar panels will mostly be covered by STCs (government rebate - Australia only).

Below is my CCGX monitor setup in my kitchen.

Below is a picture of my VRM portal. Everything can be viewed or settings can be changed over the internet anywhere in the world where you can get a WIFI connection.

I am posting this for anyone who is looking or considering buying a better designed inverter and is willing to spend more then this is a good replacement.

[paulvk]

The victron units are good inverters but the cost difference is enormous if I had used their inverter then purchased all the MPPT chargers needed that are part of the mpp solar units it would have cost me 4 times as much if they brought the price down and made them competitive they would sell a lot more. As a person who could design and build an inverter I do not see the extra cost in them, for a commercial installation I can see them and similar units installed due to warranty etc.

[coulomb]

For those that need a COM port number changed to allow a flash update to an inverter firmware, here is a step by step guide for Windows 10.

Before you start this, make sure that the problem isn't that Watchpower is still running in the background. Merely closing the GUI window doesn't stop the background task, which keeps the COM port in use. You have to exit using the system tray, as per the firmware upload instructions. This is probably the most common problem preventing a reflash. The symptom is that the COM port for your USB to serial adapter doesn't appear in the Ports drop-down box on the reflash tool. Other monitoring software that runs on your PC probably also keeps the COM port in use as well. ICC usually runs on a Raspberry Pi, so that won't be a problem, unless you are running a very old copy of ICC for Windows.

Step one is to run device manager. I just start typing the name in the "Type here to search" box at the bottom of my Windows 10 machine. Windows 10 can be configured many different ways, so use whatever method you need to run device manager. It's part of the system, it should always be there. It will look like this:

Redefine com port 1.png (41.92 KiB) Viewed 1987 times

Look for the Ports section (highlighted in blue above). Click it to show your current ports. Note that if you have nothing plugged into a port, it won't appear in the list of active ports. If your USB to serial adapter doesn't appear, check that it is working, plugged in properly, and that the USB port is working (try some others if necessary). Here is my list:

Redefine com port 2.png (63.46 KiB) Viewed 1987 times

Your USB to serial adapter will probably have a similar, perhaps not identical name. Double click on that entry to bring up the main dialog box for COM ports:

Redefine com port 3.png (39.5 KiB) Viewed 1987 times

It will probably open in the General tab. We want the Port Settings tab (highlighted in blue). Click on that:

Redefine com port 4.png (32.58 KiB) Viewed 1987 times

Click on the Advanced button:

Redefine com port 5.png (46.07 KiB) Viewed 1987 times

Click on the Com Port Number drop-down list box:

Redefine com port 6.png (55.73 KiB) Viewed 1987 times

You may have to scroll up to see the early port numbers, as I have above (use the button outlined in orange). Note how several of them are marked as in use; avoid those (though I suspect you could force them at a pinch). I'll choose COM port 2; COM port 1 if available might be a better choice for those rare occasions where you need to update the SCC firmware on a PIP-MS (Axpert MKS) machine. The reflash loader for those is different to the others, and insists on using only COM port 1. If you need COM port 1 and it is in use, you can temporarily redefine that port to some other number, then move the USB to serial COM port to COM1. With the desired port (COM1-9) highlighted, press OK. That's it. Just close all the device manager dialog boxes by pressing OK.

If you have an earlier version of Windows, and following the above doesn't work, you might be able to find instructions like these inside one of your update .zip files; these are often for older versions of windows.

[coulomb]

I have some trouble, hope you can help me.

Two weeks ago I installed my 2 EASUN SM5KV which seems to be genuine. It is a 64V version with Firmware 72.40 and 04.12.

So this is a 64 V PIP-5048MS model; that's why I moved my reply to this topic.

I have 3 Pylontech batteries connected now.

After some problems with overvoltage that seems to be fine now, but whatever I do, it switch back to grid at 49.9V when no solar is present. That means a capacity of 40,9 AH or 81% per batterie.

I suspect that you have about 47.9 V in setting 29 (low DC cutoff). With its lead-acid thinking, the firmware is trying to save your battery from reaching too low an SOC (for lead acid). It adds 2.0 V to setting 29, and if this is higher than the voltage in setting 12 (back to grid), it uses this higher voltage instead.

If this is the case, reducing setting 29 should work around the problem. If you don't like lowering the low DC cutoff voltage, LFP flavours of the patched firmware (unfortunately based on slightly older factory firmware version 72.20, so you'll lose two major updates) reduce this 2.0 V figure to 0.5 V. See patched firmware version 72.20e.

[ Edit: FLP -> LFP ]

[MarkusRE]

Thanks for your reply, I set it to 42V now, but what I do not understand. To test it I turned of PV input from one inverter and a part from the other. Immeaditly they go in bypass mode. When I turn pv on thes still uses bypass until battery voltage is around 52.7V. When this is reached they jump back to battery mode.

[coulomb]

I set it to 42V now,

Aw, come on, what was it set to before that? I like to know if my suspicions are confirmed

but what I do not understand. To test it I turned of PV input from one inverter and a part from the other. Immediately they go in bypass mode.

Did you have a lot of loads at that time, to cause the battery voltage to drop suddenly with much less PV power?

When I turn pv on thes still uses bypass until battery voltage is around 52.7V. When this is reached they jump back to battery mode.

When the battery voltage falls to within 2.0 V of the low DC cutoff setting, the battery is declared "weak". It becomes non-weak only when it reaches 0.5 V below the absorb/CV setting (setting 26). That's another undocumented behaviour. It pays to read your firmware

[MarkusRE]

I set it to 42V now,

Aw, come on, what was it set to before that? I like to know if my suspicions are confirmed

It was at 47.5 V

but what I do not understand. To test it I turned of PV input from one inverter and a part from the other. Immediately they go in bypass mode.

Did you have a lot of loads at that time, to cause the battery voltage to drop suddenly with much less PV power?

No, the load was about 300W max but I will test it in the afternoon or evening. I just wondered about, that it come back to battery when 52.7V was reached.

When I turn pv on thes still uses bypass until battery voltage is around 52.7V. When this is reached they jump back to battery mode.

When the battery voltage falls to within 2.0 V of the low DC cutoff setting, the battery is declared "weak". It becomes non-weak only when it reaches 0.5 V below the absorb/CV setting (setting 26). That's another undocumented behaviour. It pays to read your firmware

I will post all my settings later on, maybe you can have a look on it, would be nice.

Best regards
Markus

[ Edited Coulomb: fixed quoting. ]

[MarkusRE]

Hi Coulomb,

I was very happy as it seems your workaround is fine, but just now at 49,7V it dropped again to grid.

Here some values I stored:

12. 46V
13. 48V
26. 51.0V
27. 49.9V
29. 43.5V

So 43.5 from 29 plus 2V should be 45.5V to be safe for battery, but this is fa away. Any idea, what I can try before flashing?

Kind regards
Markus

[coulomb]

I was very happy as it seems your workaround is fine, but just now at 49,7V it dropped again to grid.

Slim progress. It seems you have another issue.

Here some values I stored:
26. 51.0V
27. 49.9V

Those values are quite low. What might be happening is that your battery isn't getting near enough to full for the SOC meter to reset to 100%, so it's accuracy could be gradually drifting off. If so, your battery might actually be at a fairly low state of charge, where the internal resistance is higher, prompting the more frequent changes to line/bypass mode. I think that it is certainly worth trying an increase in those settings.

My recommended values for settings 26 and 27 are 52.5 and 51.8 V respectively. If these values work (it might take a few days), it might be worth trying my recommended values for settings 12 and 13, which are 48 and 50 V respectively (the latter for people such as yourself with 3 or more battery modules).

As a point of interest, does your inverter look like the one in this advertisement? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3301619 ... 2675cl538B

It has been suggested in this post that your machine may in fact be a PIP-MK/Axpert King equivalent after all. The post continues your original post in the PIP-MK/Axpert King topic.

[MarkusRE]

Here some pictures and a Amazon link:

Specs.jpg (119.58 KiB) Viewed 1830 times

front.jpg (104.73 KiB) Viewed 1830 times

sticker.jpg (84.66 KiB) Viewed 1830 times

Link to Amazon:
https://www.amazon.de/EASUN-Inverter-Hy ... B01ABU91JY

And yes, I have a Whatap contact to Tony in China, who is a salesman. I'm waiting for an answer but it is weekend now.

[MarkusRE]

Here some pictures and a Amazon link:

Specs.jpg

front.jpg

sticker.jpg

Link to Amazon:
https://www.amazon.de/EASUN-Inverter-Hy ... B01ABU91JY

And yes, I have a Whatap contact to Tony in China, who is a salesman. I'm waiting for an answer but it is weekend now.

I forgot two pictures:

First, you can see the Overvoltage when it turns off the Inverters.

ueberlast.jpg (270.49 KiB) Viewed 1828 times

And what is strange I remembered that it worked a few days before as you can see in my test. I tried to reach the maximum of 10kW this is only one inverter but the other reacts the same. And it stayed on battery mode!!

5kw last.jpg (235.95 KiB) Viewed 1828 times

I hope this is enough information for some suggestions.

Thanks very much to all of you.

[MarkusRE]

Ich könnt grad so kotzen...

Sorry, german but I‘m really frusrated now. Just now it go back to grid again. Look at the Battery Voltage which is fine Capacity is not really accurate, because it depends just on the Batteryvoltage as far as I know.

12C8052C-F88B-40EE-895B-268178FE577F.jpeg (1.13 MiB) Viewed 1797 times

I stored the values Coulomb described before.
Until now a very expensive shit. Sorry for that.

22:16: Battery reach 50V but still on grid

Edit 20.07 8:24: this morning system was back on battery at 49.8V I stressed it with about 4KW for 30min, battery goes down to 49.4 V but stays on battery.

[teba]

Hi Markus,

seems I have a similar set up - one EASUN SM 5KW & Pylontech US2000B.
Where do you get the battery capacity from? Do you read out the Pylontech?
You should not go below 10% capacity left.

I downgraded to coulombs patched firmware 72.20e for the LiFePo4 batteries with very good experience.
One inverter is connected to 5 batteries and this are my settings:

QPIRI 230.0 21.7 230.0 50.0 21.7 5000 5000 48.0 48.0 47.4 52.5 50.3 2 02 120 1 2 1 9 01 0 0 50.0 1 1 015

From time to time I manually switch from grid to battery when I know there will be sunshine in the next few hours. I do it this way:

1. axpert.sh PBDV49.0
2. sleep 5
3. axpert.sh PBDV50.0
4. axpert.sh QMOD

Cheers,
Lars

[MarkusRE]

I do not go below 10%, would be nice to reach something about 15 20%.
Here some Screenshots a minute ago.

D101C066-6162-4D07-9EBB-D6136AC0B089.jpeg (832.1 KiB) Viewed 1801 times

E202C3A6-F82A-42BB-B850-A503E7818B18.jpeg (94.47 KiB) Viewed 1801 times

As you can see, it is about 78%, so enough energy left. I realy don‘t know what to do else. Now it is charging and while writing 50V are reached again.

At 22:00 you see it dropped to grid.

[MarkusRE]

First of all, please excuse me. I was really pissed of.

But good news, I flashed this great firmware and it works really great. Many thanks go out to @coulomb and @teba. You helped me a lot.

I stressed my batteries today a bit. Everything looks pretty nice now.

D68051EF-1DCC-4FA2-B2DF-6B43972C49B6.jpeg (564.67 KiB) Viewed 1753 times

This with a capacity left of around 63% and still on battery mode.

Thanks very very much. You all are great.

Markus

P.S.: Now I go for the next batteries.

What about the function setting one inverter to standby. Is it done automtically? How does it work?

[daimyo]

Hi guys,

Does anyone know what would happend if I connect more panels power than nominated... example... I connect 4.500W of solar panels to 4000W nominated device, each of course (3 devices connected together)?

What will happend if PV input is greater than nominated device input power? Will it burnout, will it reduce input power, or what...?

I ask that becaue I want to use maximum that device can give troughout a year...

Thank You

Best regards

[coulomb]

Does anyone know what would happen if I connect more panels power than nominated... example... I connect 4.500W of solar panels to 4000W nominated device

That level of "overclocking" is safe and is commonly used. The solar charge controller just stops "trying harder" when it reaches its power limit (which may be less than the nominal power limit due to temperature or PV voltage).

However, higher levels of overclocking (more than the 12.5% you mentioned) are not a good idea. There is a control system regulating the power level and hence battery voltage, and it's designed for nominal power or less. It will become more "twitchy" as the overclocking level increases; a small change of PWM ratio or incident sunlight will cause a larger and larger change in charge current. The resultant overshoots could cause the SCC to overheat. More likely and more importantly, the overshoots could start causing problems with battery life, and/or the excessive voltage could stress and eventually destroy the SCC or other parts of the inverter-charger.

[daimyo]

Does anyone know what would happen if I connect more panels power than nominated... example... I connect 4.500W of solar panels to 4000W nominated device

That level of "overclocking" is safe and is commonly used. The solar charge controller just stops "trying harder" when it reaches its power limit (which may be less than the nominal power limit due to temperature or PV voltage).

However, higher levels of overclocking (more than the 12.5% you mentioned) are not a good idea. There is a control system regulating the power level and hence battery voltage, and it's designed for nominal power or less. It will become more "twitchy" as the overclocking level increases; a small change of PWM ratio or incident sunlight will cause a larger and larger change in charge current. The resultant overshoots could cause the SCC to overheat. More likely and more importantly, the overshoots could start causing problems with battery life, and/or the excessive voltage could stress and eventually destroy the SCC or other parts of the inverter-charger.

Thank You Coulomb

I have now aprox. 11.5 kW total PV power, and get in ideal conditions max of 9kW, So i am trying to figure what would be max (inverter safe) PV field that I can connect to my 4kW devices.

I also have extra large battery bank if that mean anything.

Thank You!