Prelude conversion project - some questions

Technical discussion on converting internal combustion to electric
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coulomb
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Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by coulomb »

Wouldn't longer bolts be easier? Unless they're very special bolts.
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Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by jonescg »

Sorry I wasn't clear in my post. My problem is there is no room for the nuts on the back. An alternative is to use countersunk bolts in the opposite direction but then I would have to assemble the midshaft-end plate unit as one, making repairs very difficult.
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Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by francisco.shi »

Could you put some thread inserts?
I am assuming the problem is you drilled the holes for the bolt size so now you can't put a thread on it?
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Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by jonescg »

francisco.shi wrote: Thu, 27 Jun 2019, 08:08 I am assuming the problem is you drilled the holes for the bolt size so now you can't put a thread on it?
Bingo.

Nah, I have access to some machine tools today, I'll just make up a 13 mm thick block and tap it. That should be enough meat to keep it steady.
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Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by T1 Terry »

Longer blots maybe? The spacing still needs to be the same thickness so using a thinner plate isn't going to improve the bolt stick through at all.
If you helicoil the thread holes in the ally it will be a lot stronger thread wise.

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Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by jonescg »

All good - I'm sourcing a 13 mm thick bit of aluminium which can be tapped directly - less room for mis-alignment that way too.
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Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by blwnhr »

Just make sure you put anti-seize on the threads, alloy is a shocker for galling.
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Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by jonescg »

Good call - I have some nickel based stuff that would work well.
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Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by jonescg »

Much nicer - 13 mm and some coarse thread should hold it in place.
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At a pinch I might be able to fit a jam nut on the back, but it's window dressing really.
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I will drill and tap these tomorrow, and band-saw off the corner.
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Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by rhills »

I use Tef-Gel on the boat. It's perfect for preventing galling of stainless steel screws/fittings on aluminium masts in a salty environment. Without it, the ally is oxidising within 6 months.
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Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by jonescg »

Knocked this up before work.
Midshaft support plate.jpg
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Might finally get a chance to drop the motor-gearbox into the engine bay and size up the last two chassis mounts this weekend.
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Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by jonescg »

Finished this part. I'll have to get to the chassis mounts tomorrow.
It seems to be held in position quite well and spins freely, but I will be using some locktite for sure.
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Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by T1 Terry »

If you use Loctite you don't need to use anti seize type products because the Loctite fills in the spaces where the problems can occur and acts as a lubricant on the thread while assembling. Just be care what grade you use because you can't really heat the bolt or thread area to release the Loctite. the last thing you want is to pull the thread and all out when trying to undo the fastener. This is why helicoils are Loctited in but the stainless fastener has anti seize between the helicoil thread and the fastener thread, you don't want the helicoil to come out but you don't want the fastener to bind to the helicoil either.
Even the Winston LYP cells now have helicoils in all the terminal threads, far less risk of pulling a thread out.

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Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by jonescg »

Well I lowered the assembly into the engine bay, carefully avoiding all the plumbing I've already installed.
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The side and rear transmission mounts are good, but I need to find a place for the front and side engine mounts.
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It's going to be a rather long one I suspect, so I can use the other three M10 fixings on the other end of the motor.
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Front mount should be a little easier, but nothing like the original I suspect.
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The height above is pretty good - I can work with it but it will still be very tight.
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Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by T1 Terry »

Maybe see what components you can fit into that space and make the cradle that supports them part of the structure that also supports the motor weight. That mount is really only to reduce the see-saw effect on the two side mounts by carrying the weight rather than acting as any sort of torsional member. I doubt you could get away with leaving that mount out, the drivers side mount isn't designed to reduce movement but rather the reduce vibration transfer.

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Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by jonescg »

I think the only one I can afford to leave out is the front mount, but unfortunately that's the easiest one to fabricate :)
I'd like to put the airconditioning compressor down there, as I'd really rather not have to de-gas and re-gas the system should the motor ever need to come out. Worst case the aircon can be accessed from underneath.
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Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by jonescg »

Left hand side engine mount is done (less the grinding and black-painting). I will need to get the front one done - torsional movement will be fairly significant so it's wise to have it solidly mounted on all four sides.
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Ignore the brass nuts - they were the only M10 nuts I could find for the test fit!
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Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by Richo »

Sorry I can't see your brass nuts because of your long rod.
I would have thought 100RHS would be more appropriate.
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Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by jonescg »

:P

It's only there to prevent any roll, which there will be very little of. Most of the forces on the motor-gearbox assembly will be pitch; rapid acceleration and deceleration will cause the motor to twist a little.
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Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by jonescg »

Front engine mount is done! We're almost ready to mount the motor permanently in the car :D Only upon removing the front engine mount bush did I discover it's shagged :x So until eBay delivers I will have to settle for a grinding and painting day.
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Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

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jonescg wrote: Wed, 17 Apr 2019, 09:37 Hehe, well as always you find errors as you go along. I wired up the A/C system as drawn here with much discomfort (soldering painfully short wires upside down in a car footwell is awful) but when I turned the ignition to ON, the system fired up. That's not supposed to happen...

Then I realised what's wrong. The second relay which is designed to switch the A/C system to ground and power it up is also being powered by the ignition +12 V supply. I still need to take the +12 V supply from the Arduino thermal management system and use it to power the grounding relay so that all of the thermal protection sensors are in series.

I believe the solution is to add a blocking diode. Provided the current doesn't exceed 10 A...

new Aircon wiring5.png
OK well this is new.

I put a 12 V power supply on the car to test the reversing light circuit. Since the wiring loom from the engine included the section which links the reverse switch on the transmission to the main loom is gone, I'll just have to wire another section back in. The jumper worked - great. I turned the key off and the radiator fan fires up!

Somehow the fan is being powered by an unswitched supply whenever the car is turned off. And whenever the car is turned on, it stops, unless the A/C button is pressed :? :?

So very strange, because it never did this before. I've done nothing with the wiring since finishing the AC wiring (and testing it thoroughly).
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Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by T1 Terry »

Just double check you haven't accidently put a wire that should have gone on the 12v negative terminal, on to the 12v positive terminal. I spent a while trying to figure out what had gone wrong with my caravan mover EB falcon because when the battery was connected there was no starter but the air con fan came on and a few other weird bits when the ignition was off. Finally found the error, it certainly looked like a cable that belonged on the positive busbar, but once on the negative terminal, all was well with the world again. The car had sat for at least 12 mths because I couldn't get it going, about 3 turns of the motor and away it went, gotta love the Fords :lol:

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Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by brendon_m »

Looking at your diagram I'd guess that the blue wire that goes to the fan switch I've circled is probably floating high.
Did you mess with any blue wires in the engine bay?
If you find that wire and probe it and see what's there.
If I'm right then it couldn't be much power because it would be a short through the diode block that's above the pressure switch and you would blow Fuses when the ac is on
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Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by jonescg »

That cooling fan switch is the thermostat - normally hooked up to an NO thermostat, so once it goes above 90'C it conducts.

I turned the car off, and the radiator fan fired up. I also noticed that the condensor fan fires up briefly but soon stops. While the fan was running (and the ignition was off) I pulled fuse 17 - nothing. I pulled fuse 18 - no change either. SO I went to the under-hood box and pulled fuse 39 - that stopped the fan. But it fired up as soon as I returned it, suggesting there was something powering the black and yellow wire. Strange though that the condensor fan didn't also fire up.

So it seems to be getting power from somewhere further back... Terry - no Hondas a definitely more complicated than that!
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Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by brendon_m »

What I was trying to say is I reckon the relay is getting a positive on the blue wire (just enough to turn on a relay but not much more and it sounds like not even enough power to run 2 relays, hence the condenser fan dropping out) and then the circuit gets a ground from the black/yellow wire through the ignition circuits while the key is off. Once you turn the key on the black/yellow goes to 12v( which puts 12v on both sides of the relay which makes it turn off until the blue wire gets a ground from the a/c switch
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