PHEV Loss of Km Range with Battery.

Mitsubishi EV Interest Group
rhills
Site Admin
Posts: 386
Joined: Fri, 25 Jul 2008, 01:57
Real Name: Rob Hills
Location: Waikiki, WA

Re: PHEV Loss of Km Range with Battery.

Post by rhills » Sun, 25 Nov 2018, 21:11

Don't forget there are a number of internet archival sites around too, for example https://archive.org/web/.
Rob Hills
AEVA Webmaster
2014 Mitsubishi Outlander Aspire PHEV
Jul 2014 - Mar 2019
Total Petrol: 646.6L
ODO: 47979
Av Consumption: 1.35 L/100km

tressteleg1
Noobie
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed, 26 Sep 2018, 09:38
Real Name: Richard
MSN: tressteleg1

Re: PHEV Loss of Km Range with Battery.

Post by tressteleg1 » Fri, 30 Nov 2018, 05:08

Hi Reecho,
Your battery problems are just like what seems to be a limited number of PHEV owners are suffering. Whether it is related directly to cell failure or whether the Battery Maintenance Unit (BMU) is limiting excessively the amount of charge is not quite clear to me.

Nevertheless the fact that Mitsubishi no longer promises 80% of battery life after 8 years should be a concern.

You might be interested to know that under Australian consumer law, if you would not have bought the product if you knew that its performance would be so dismal, in this case premature failing of the battery, then the situation would be considered a Major Failure and you would be entitled to a total refund of the cost of the vehicle. This may or may not apply to you.

Whether this is the motive or not, Mitsubishi is known to be replacing some batteries free of charge and with a further guarantee over at least five years.

I suggest that you be persistent in your pursuit of this matter and hopefully Mitsubishi do the right thing whatever the cure might be.

Sorry I did not reply earlier but I don’t seem to get any emails about postings.

mikedufty
Senior Member
Posts: 628
Joined: Tue, 02 Dec 2008, 00:15
Real Name: Michael Dufty
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Contact:

Re: PHEV Loss of Km Range with Battery.

Post by mikedufty » Fri, 30 Nov 2018, 09:54

Someone just listed a PHEV on carsales with 200,000km on it. I wonder how the battery is going on that one.
$17k

User avatar
Johny
Senior Member
Posts: 3729
Joined: Mon, 23 Jun 2008, 16:26
Real Name: John Wright
Location: Melbourne
Contact:

Re: PHEV Loss of Km Range with Battery.

Post by Johny » Fri, 30 Nov 2018, 13:14

mikedufty wrote:
Fri, 30 Nov 2018, 09:54
Someone just listed a PHEV on carsales with 200,000km on it. I wonder how the battery is going on that one.
$17k
Hmm. It would be interesting to take it for a test drive and quietly check with EvBatmon.

Edit: Queensland - it won't be me.

User avatar
coulomb
Site Admin
Posts: 3723
Joined: Thu, 22 Jan 2009, 20:32
Real Name: Mike Van Emmerik
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: PHEV Loss of Km Range with Battery.

Post by coulomb » Sun, 02 Dec 2018, 09:10

Johny wrote:
Fri, 30 Nov 2018, 13:14
Hmm. It would be interesting to take it for a test drive and quietly check with EvBatmon.
Indeed. Or perhaps PHEV Watchdog, as this gentleman uses, from Toowoomba Queensland:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SxFrklQT98

The video is painfully slow. The gist is that after the "cell smoothing procedure", his PHEV had amazing range, actual verified real-world range, and was back to near new condition, with 37.9 Ah of capacity reported (38.0 Ah is the new, nominal capacity). Then the figures started degrading again, and he's back to just over 80% SOH again. But since he actually had good range immediately after the smoothing, it looks like it's the BMS being too cautious and pessimistic. You'd think they've had enough time to get that BMS firmware right by now. Sigh. Or maybe one or more cells is/are getting discharged more than the others (e.g. to run a BMS PCB), and the normal balancing procedure isn't enough to get these cells fully charged after the others are full.

Anyone have any idea what the battery smoothing procedure involves, in a technical sense?

Is it something that someone could do at home over a weekend, say? Or does it require special equipment, and dropping the battery out of the vehicle?

I'm curious because $17k is a near-EV that I could actually afford, but I don't want to buy a load of misery.

[ Edit: added link to PHEV Watchdog site. ]
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

wanpoh
Noobie
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri, 19 Apr 2019, 21:17
Real Name: Wan LEE

Re: PHEV Loss of Km Range with Battery.

Post by wanpoh » Fri, 19 Apr 2019, 21:36

look like my battery (2014 PHEV) is pretty bad. :|
2018 03 16 089950km 82.9% 31.5Ah
2018 12 08 102659km 75.3% 28.6Ah
2019 04 07 107768km 71.6% 27.2Ah

Anyone done a BMU reset?

antiscab
Senior Member
Posts: 2446
Joined: Mon, 26 Nov 2007, 05:39
Real Name: Matthew Lacey
Location: Perth, WA

Re: PHEV Loss of Km Range with Battery.

Post by antiscab » Sat, 20 Apr 2019, 12:18

A BMU reset won't get your capacity back

107k km is pretty good - how much has been on battery only?
Matt
2017 Renault zoe - 25'000km
2007 vectrix - 156'000km
1998 prius - needs Batt
1999 Prius - needs batt
2000 prius - has 200 x headway 38120 cells

wanpoh
Noobie
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri, 19 Apr 2019, 21:17
Real Name: Wan LEE

Re: PHEV Loss of Km Range with Battery.

Post by wanpoh » Sun, 21 Apr 2019, 08:28

I believe the degradation calculation is pretty pessimistic. Was hoping the BMU reset will allow me to use the battery to it's full potential.

I have 19288Ah reported as charging through AC. I got 0.5175Ah/km on average so that equal to 38,000km powered by Grid/Solar.
Total current charged & discharged since manufacturing is 101980Ah. I suppose the rest of it is powered by onboard fossil fuel generator/engine.

tressteleg1
Noobie
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed, 26 Sep 2018, 09:38
Real Name: Richard
MSN: tressteleg1

Re: PHEV Loss of Km Range with Battery.

Post by tressteleg1 » Tue, 23 Apr 2019, 06:16

I don’t get any notification when anyone makes a comment to this thread which I started last year so I only come across comments when I happened to look for any new ones.

I watch some of Andy’s videos and both he and a friend of mine have received brand-new batteries, probably with the improved range, free as warranty replacements for the originals. Certainly Andy is already suffering from noticeable degradation despite having all known procedures performed. My friend has not done enough kilometres for any drop to be very noticeable yet.

This proves what I have considered for a very long time – The Battery Monitoring Unit (BMU) is artificially suppressing the amount of charge permitted into the battery at a far greater rate than the battery is actually degrading.

What is surprising and depressing is that Mitsubishi seems totally clueless about this problem and how to fix it. Surely doing a software upgrade of the BMU should bring this nonsense to a close but the engineers at Mitsubishi seem too dense to realise this.

I recently saw a video by a Nissan leaf owner and his battery-only car has done quite a significant milage with only a rather small drop in vehicle range.

My own PHEV which has gone only 32,000 km in 4 1/2 years is now struggling to do a 38 km regular trip which it used to do with quite a few kilometres left over. The car’s battery state as read by a monitoring unit called a DOG a month ago showed battery was down to 77.9 km. The Mitsubishi warranty stated the battery would still have 80% after something like eight years!

Surely there must be other PHEV owners with similar performance drops. I can only presume that they are accepting flagging vehicle range as inevitable even if it is happening far more quickly than it should.

Richard

wanpoh
Noobie
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri, 19 Apr 2019, 21:17
Real Name: Wan LEE

Re: PHEV Loss of Km Range with Battery.

Post by wanpoh » Thu, 25 Apr 2019, 11:58

Hi Richard,

your MY14 now have 77.9% SOH (32,000km)
my MY14 now have 71.6% SOH (107,000km)
both now below the 80% SOH MMA claim.

I wonder if any member in the forum are able to provide data?
do you know any website actually collect these data?

Wan

User avatar
zzcoopej
Groupie
Posts: 212
Joined: Fri, 14 Nov 2014, 13:37
Real Name: Jeremy
Location: Gosford
Contact:

Re: PHEV Loss of Km Range with Battery.

Post by zzcoopej » Fri, 26 Apr 2019, 05:51

wanpoh wrote:
Thu, 25 Apr 2019, 11:58
do you know any website actually collect these data?
Users of our App EvBatMon can upload their PHEV SOH/PMC data to our cloud portal to compare with other owners.
We now have much more data than the graph below from 2016, but it still gives you an idea -

http://evpositive.com/battery-history.html
2010 iMiEV
2015 PHEV Aspire
Battery App EvBatMon for PHEV & iMiEV iOS(iPhone,iPad)& Android
www.EvPositive.com

xphread
Noobie
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu, 04 Dec 2008, 03:34
Real Name: Tim McLennan
Location: Perth

Re: PHEV Loss of Km Range with Battery.

Post by xphread » Mon, 06 May 2019, 22:35

I suspect I might be in this boat too.
Our 14/15 PHEV is often struggling to get 40kms, when I could regularly eek 50+ out of it when we first got it just over 3 years ago. (new)

I feel I have to do a few more tests (and triple check things like tyre pressures with each test) before collecting my pitchfork and starting a march though...

Most recent service stated "battery check done" ..but didn't give any figures/percentages.
I have been meaning to contact the dealer to see if this info is available.

Ultralights
Groupie
Posts: 131
Joined: Wed, 01 Jun 2016, 02:19
Real Name: robert
Location: Sydney

Re: PHEV Loss of Km Range with Battery.

Post by Ultralights » Tue, 07 May 2019, 16:23

mine is at 80,000Km, and still gets about 45 km summer, 35 winter, if the OP is at about 44,000km, thats when i saw a similar drop in range, and also, worn out tyres.. new set of tyres, range came back!
PHEV, i-Miev, Youtube @SydEV, Twitter @Sydney_ev Insta @Sydney_ev

tressteleg1
Noobie
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed, 26 Sep 2018, 09:38
Real Name: Richard
MSN: tressteleg1

Re: PHEV Loss of Km Range with Battery.

Post by tressteleg1 » Mon, 13 May 2019, 12:27

Unfortunately I cannot find a way to reply directly to each of the three recent posts so I will have to do it this way. Everyone should read all of this as there are overlaps applicable to you all, and no doubt many other PHEV owners.

To WAN, your state of health of 71.6% in a car of this age is clearly well below the 80% promised in the original advertising splurge.
Ande’s Unplugged EV YouTube video site recently did cover his recommendations about how to make a claim. It includes presenting the dealership with a copy of that warranty promise of 80% after eight or whatever years. You should also provide the evidence that the S0H has dropped to whatever it is now under 80%. Obviously you have used some device to come up with your figures.

To XPHread, dealerships seem rather coy in giving the exact figures they see upon checking the state of health of your battery but maybe nobody has been forceful enough in insisting upon a copy before the test is performed. If in fact they refuse, if you don’t already have one of those DOG devices or a friend who can test your car for you, it maybe would be worth the investment. They don’t cost a lot.

To ultralights, obviously a car with new tyres etc will perform better and in extreme climates do better in summer but nevertheless the real answer is to get up to date SOH readings for the car’s battery.

At this stage it seems that Mitsubishi is totally befuddled by these problems even if to some of us all that is required is new software for the BMU (battery monitoring unit) which includes controlling the depth of battery charging.

At this stage Andy mentioned above and a good friend of mine have both been supplied with brand-new batteries but nevertheless it is not taking long for the state of health to be declining to a remarkable degree.

I am on the point of pushing Mitsubishi for a solution and hopefully the response will be a new battery, but that generosity may not last much longer.

Good luck to all of you who decide to press Mitsubishi for a solution.

Richard

russ57
Noobie
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue, 25 Jun 2019, 09:44
Real Name: russell

Re: PHEV Loss of Km Range with Battery.

Post by russ57 » Tue, 25 Jun 2019, 09:49

hello everyone...
i'm new here, but i have had an Outlander phev for a couple of years, and i am very happy with it. however, i am also seeing some degradation.
my dealer said yesterday that the battery is measuring 29.6AH but claims that is only 12% degradation. eithe i dont understand or he needs a new calculator.
anyway, i would appreciate a copy of the 20% degradation screenshots if you are still around rechio

tressteleg1
Noobie
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed, 26 Sep 2018, 09:38
Real Name: Richard
MSN: tressteleg1

Re: PHEV Loss of Km Range with Battery.

Post by tressteleg1 » Mon, 08 Jul 2019, 03:30

At nearly 5 years since purchase and 33,000 km my battery range is down to 77.6% at 29.5 Ah according to a Watchdog check.
I would post the images but can’t see a way to do so with this app using my iPad.

User avatar
reecho
Senior Member
Posts: 696
Joined: Sun, 17 Apr 2011, 02:39
Real Name: Richard Baird
Location: Perth WA
Contact:

Re: PHEV Loss of Km Range with Battery.

Post by reecho » Mon, 08 Jul 2019, 09:27

russ57 wrote:
Tue, 25 Jun 2019, 09:49
hello everyone...
i'm new here, but i have had an Outlander phev for a couple of years, and i am very happy with it. however, i am also seeing some degradation.
my dealer said yesterday that the battery is measuring 29.6AH but claims that is only 12% degradation. eithe i dont understand or he needs a new calculator.
anyway, i would appreciate a copy of the 20% degradation screenshots if you are still around rechio
Ah yeah my PHEV is long gone. Enjoying the Kona now....LOTS...

mpev
Noobie
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu, 14 Mar 2019, 10:47
Real Name: MPEV

Re: PHEV Loss of Km Range with Battery.

Post by mpev » Tue, 09 Jul 2019, 20:40

Have just purchased 2014 PHEV with 160,000Kms. Getting around 35Kms in winter in Victoria. Not too bad.
Just ordered 'Vgate Icar Pro Bluetooth Obd2 Car Detector' and going to use to see how SOH is via PHEV Dog.
Then like many others will be looking at a method to perform bottom balance and capacity test. Maybe reset also.
Thanks to Andy as his videos have helped paint the picture quite well.

User avatar
avolt
Noobie
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu, 22 May 2008, 23:29
Real Name: Andrew
Location: N.S.W Australia

Re: PHEV Loss of Km Range with Battery.

Post by avolt » Sun, 11 Aug 2019, 20:29

Hi is there anyone Wrecking a PHEV? i would like to play around with the BMU computer
"Ohms what a feeling Toyvolta"



http://www.evalbum.com/3325

tressteleg1
Noobie
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed, 26 Sep 2018, 09:38
Real Name: Richard
MSN: tressteleg1

Re: PHEV Loss of Km Range with Battery.

Post by tressteleg1 » Sat, 17 Aug 2019, 17:20

avolt wrote:
Sun, 11 Aug 2019, 20:29
Hi is there anyone Wrecking a PHEV? i would like to play around with the BMU computer


If your problem is dimishing Km range from the battery, check Andy’s Youtube site Unplugged EV with particular attention to the Lindqvist Method which is a very simple and often effective method of resetting the BMU so that the charger puts a full amount of charge into the battery which almost certainly is still in very good condition.

Apparently the problem is within the hardware of the BMU, and cannot be altered with a software update.

Richard.

Post Reply