PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

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weber
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Post by weber » Sat, 15 Oct 2016, 20:14

It doesn't require our firmware to make those float and bulk/absorb settings, but it does requires our firmware to get the low cutoff voltage up that high. And our firmware is required to ensure that the PIP transitions between float and bulk/absorb modes in a sensible manner. Without our bug-fix it may never go up to the absorb voltage on charge (going directly from bulk to float), and it may never go back to bulk mode except after a very deep discharge.
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Post by Solar Junky » Sun, 16 Oct 2016, 15:05

Have not been able to update firmware can't seem to get the db9 cable working only the USB

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Post by offgridQLD » Sun, 16 Oct 2016, 16:54

I have notices there has been a slight decrease in price of PIP inverters listed online through ebay.

Particularly when you take into account the Au exchange rate at the moment vs what they are asking. Not to mention the increased specs of inbuilt SCC to 4000w.

With the price of PV and product's like the PIP4048 going off grid is a no brainer.

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Sun, 16 Oct 2016, 05:55, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by coulomb » Sun, 16 Oct 2016, 17:42

Solar Junky wrote: Have not been able to update firmware can't seem to get the db9 cable working only the USB

I've not done it, but you should be able to do the firmware update over USB much the same as over a DB9 connector. When the inverter's USB cable is plugged in to a computer, the computer should see it as a COM port (often a high COM number, perhaps COM10 or COM13 or higher). I believe it should appear in the drop down box labelled Serial, using the same ReflashTool.exe that is inside the firmware .rar or .zip file.

However, I seem to recall not being able to see the USB connection with an ordinary communications program like TeraTerm, so despite coming from the manufacturer, ReflashTool may not see it. ReflashTool seems to be quite old, and doesn't seem to have changed since USB ports have appeared on the 5 kVA models. Then again, the 24 V models have had USB ports for longer, and no DB9 ports, so maybe it will work after all.

Have you tried with the USB port?

Can you try using a different USB to serial adapter to connect to the DB9 cable, or a different computer? Weber has a collection of older laptops, and from memory one of them would not work with ReflashTool, despite working with other software using the same USB to serial adapter.
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5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Post by weber » Sun, 16 Oct 2016, 17:46

I just tried doing a firmware update via the PIP's USB port. Nothing appears in the Serial Port menu of the Reflash tool. But then why would it, since it doesn't appear as a COM port in TeraTerm or the Device Manager either.
Last edited by weber on Sun, 16 Oct 2016, 07:03, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by weber » Sun, 16 Oct 2016, 18:08

Solar Junky wrote: What kind of BMS are you using??

We're using the open source LyteFyba BMS, which we're still developing.
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Post by andys » Sun, 16 Oct 2016, 18:37

Hi there,
I'm using 16 x 160Ah lifepo4, charging at 56.2V, and then my linux PC stops the charge every day when the charge current falls to 0.05C (8A) by resetting the float voltage to 54.0V. I call that full battery, even though its probably only 90% or 95%.

I'm using the BMS from zeva.com.au to monitor individual cell voltages and provide a state of charge meter.

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Post by PGutti » Mon, 17 Oct 2016, 00:08

Thank you Coulomb!
I did not realize or have not looked unto the rar files. Image Image Image

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Post by Solar Junky » Mon, 17 Oct 2016, 01:27

Thanks for your input!!!!! Have been trying to update firmware with USB no luck tried many times............. lol! I'm kinda obsessive compulsive! haha.. Contacted MPP Solar they told me firmware update only works with DB9 This Sucks for me as it was working with db9 on my home computer & laptop then one day just stopped working on both???????? tried every thing..... Even working with mpp solar for long time and they send me a USB to replace the db9 and it worked.... I bought the 2nd unit after thinking something was wrong with my first unit's DB9 output because how could it stop working on two computers?????? anyway after much time of trying different things. I'm at a loss......

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Post by Solar Junky » Mon, 17 Oct 2016, 01:41

Thanks for the bms info Awesome!
With your firmware can you set the ( Back to grid voltage ) Setting to a much higher setting 51v is a bit low would like 52.2 or 52.1 as the back to grid setting. can this be done with your firmware?

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Post by Solar Junky » Mon, 17 Oct 2016, 01:45

Andys Thanks!

That is one cool BMS system!

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Post by coulomb » Mon, 17 Oct 2016, 02:54

Solar Junky wrote: With your firmware can you set the ( Back to grid voltage ) Setting to a much higher setting 51v is a bit low would like 52.2 or 52.1 as the back to grid setting. can this be done with your firmware?

Yes. [ Edit: Actually, it's no. I was confused between battery disconnect and back to grid voltage; see Weber's post below. ]

From the download post:
5) The Battery Under Voltage Cutoff setting voltage range has been changed from 40-48 V to 44 to 52 V (i.e. 4 V has been added to the lower and upper limits).

The Battery Under Voltage Cutoff can only be set to whole volts, not tenths of a volt. It's just a limitation of using an LCD "menu" with just a few buttons.
Last edited by coulomb on Mon, 17 Oct 2016, 05:28, edited 1 time in total.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Post by weber » Mon, 17 Oct 2016, 03:20

Solar Junky wrote: With your firmware can you set the ( Back to grid voltage ) Setting to a much higher setting 51v is a bit low would like 52.2 or 52.1 as the back to grid setting. can this be done with your firmware?

Not sure what Coulomb's been smoking. Image The answer is, unfortunately, no. The Back to utility setting (parameter 12) is still 44 to 51 in 1 V increments. But it's now on our list to raise its range by 4 volts for the next version, like we did to the Low cutoff voltage (parameter 29), which can in fact be changed in 0.1 V increments. I just tried both of these things on a Li-patched PIP.
Last edited by weber on Sun, 16 Oct 2016, 16:24, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Ankit » Mon, 17 Oct 2016, 09:58

Hello,

I am working on PV system Integration with APC-UPS. For MPPT, i am using SCC-MPPT 3K from Voltronics.

I have written firmware such that solar is always given priority to AC mains.

Problem.
When system goes from online to on-PV , current from MPPT starts increasing and after a particular current MPPT turns off. Now again system goes online.

sequence of events -

online----detection of pv presence------goes to on PV------after a particular current MPPT turns off------again system online.

I have kept MPPT to max. charging current limit which is 60A.

Any help would be great.

Thanks
Ankit

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Post by Northland » Mon, 17 Oct 2016, 11:07

Solar Junky wrote:That is one cool BMS system!


Cooler than mine?
A better BMS with unlimited everything
Last edited by Northland on Mon, 17 Oct 2016, 00:09, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by coulomb » Mon, 17 Oct 2016, 16:36

Ankit wrote: I am working on PV system Integration with APC-UPS. For MPPT, i am using SCC-MPPT 3K from Voltronics.
So this is a stand-alone SCC with a non-Voltronic UPS? If so, this is off topic.

I know a little about how the SCC firmware operates, but it behaves so differently when integrated inside a PIP/Axpert integrated charger/inverter that unfortunately I can't begin to answer your question.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Post by Solar Junky » Tue, 18 Oct 2016, 01:56

Your system is nice!! really like that 800 watt victron inverter You got.

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Post by andys » Thu, 20 Oct 2016, 17:22

Has anyone used (or know of anyone that has used) a PIP system with the 1000Ah LiFePO4 batteries successfully?

(Is there any analysis of using 1000Ah batteries instead of smaller ones in parallel?)
Last edited by andys on Thu, 20 Oct 2016, 06:27, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by offgridQLD » Thu, 20 Oct 2016, 17:41

In general the less number of cells to get the job done the better.

I don't see any big issue with 1000ah of lithium on a pip over say 400ah that I am using now.

Though one issue is the pip older version is 3000w pv charger. Let's just call the battery bank 1000ah x 53v 53kwh of storage. And let's just say 3000w x 5hrs max potential of the charger . That's only 15kwh over 24hrs. So if you need 1000ah of lithium (that's a lot!) because your power needs overnight are big enough to warrant it. Then one pip won't be enough to recover more than 15kwh max.

Two of the newer pips 4000w pv chargers x 2 would be a good fit for 1000ah at 53v.

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Thu, 20 Oct 2016, 06:42, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by andys » Thu, 20 Oct 2016, 17:45

Thanks. Makes sense.

Since this small system is working well, I'm now looking at a bigger system for a busy home+office. Current usage is 30kWh/day and instant (5 second) peaks of 10kW.

So I was planning on at least 3 PIP units in parallel, a nice side effect being that means three available MPPT channels for the solar panels in different orientations.

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Post by offgridQLD » Thu, 20 Oct 2016, 18:06

The other down side to 3 pips is 3x50w idle consumption roughly 12hrs at 150w .1.8kwh extra drain on the bank. Though it's a wast and it always bugs me wasting energy the reality is a big system can brush off that 1.8kwh with little effect .

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Post by andys » Thu, 20 Oct 2016, 18:11

I was worried about that initially, but currently (with 4kW of panels) I've yet to see the panels put out less than about 100 watts even in the worst weather, so its only really a problem while the sun is down.

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Post by offgridQLD » Thu, 20 Oct 2016, 18:42

Yes that's why I calculated the 1.8kwh on 12hrs 3 pips actually consumes a shocking 3.6kwh every 24rs doing nothing!

Standalone power always has some inefficacy's that you need to cover for. In your case with 30kwh consumption each day 15% of your energy is going towards powering 3 pips idle consumption.

Perhaps 2 pips would be a good match they would have no issue handling 10kw spikes and are rated to 8kw continuous. 8kw of pv is a good size. I often consume 40kwh in good weather from 8.2kw of pv with a 400ah bank. most big loads are run in the day time.

Spend the extra $1000 for the 3rd pip and $4000 for the 4kw of PV that would go with that 3rd pip on more energy efficient appliances. And try and get that 30kwh daily consumption down its always way less expensive to reduce your energy needs than to cover for them off grid.

Kurt

Last edited by offgridQLD on Thu, 20 Oct 2016, 07:43, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by andys » Thu, 20 Oct 2016, 19:01

All good advice and I agree - up to a point.

Areas of concern are space heating, water heating, and cooking/cleaning. We don't have gas.

Seems that to get energy efficiency after a certain point takes a big jump in appliance cost which makes it seem not worth while, since if you put the same money into panels and batteries, they can be used for multiple purposes and not just the one appliance.

Since each PIP has a peak overload output of another whole PIP, would it be feasible to have the next inverter in the string turn on only when the previous one has exceeded its output?

(Say I wired up the PIP power switches to relays somehow)

Or can you not switch units on/off when they're operating in parallel like that?

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Post by Northland » Thu, 20 Oct 2016, 19:04

You should get a victron multi plus. Ultra low consumption and can act as a grid tie (in your case the pip could be the grid) but you should only run the victron at night. That way you get your 8kw without high consumption, in fact you would reduce consumption since the victron draws 8w

I see no need to have huge amounts of panels or inverters.

For hot water, buy a heat pump. They use 75% less and it's usually the biggest load
Last edited by Northland on Thu, 20 Oct 2016, 08:10, edited 1 time in total.

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