Outlander PHEV-should I get one?

Mitsubishi EV Interest Group
FairyFloss
Noobie
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun, 08 Mar 2015, 04:17
Real Name: Floss
Location: Australia

Outlander PHEV-should I get one?

Post by FairyFloss » Sun, 08 Mar 2015, 14:23

Hi everyone,

I hope this is not a blasphemous question on a pure electric car forum.

Should I buy a Outlander PHEV?

Here's our situation.

I'm a stay at home mum of two primary school ages kids.
I drop them off to school and pick them up most days - about 35km x 4 days a week.
The other 3 days are about 50km x 2 and 75km.

We go for weekends away about once a month and camping 4 times a year.

We currently have a Mazda 6 hatch which consume about 13l/100km, it is 10 years old and was just thinking of updating it. It has a massive boot which is perfect for camping. But so fuel inefficient when I'm mostly doing city driving.

My husband has a 3 year old Ford Focus and drives to work 3 times a week, 50km return. Rides his bicycle the other 2 days. And probably does about 30km on the weekends. Now that we have started to looking into the world of hybrids and EV's we are starting to regret him buying this car. The Prius C came out 2 months after he bought his Ford, I was more interested in hybrids than him. He is a little afraid of "new" technologies.

We don't buys cars often, we assume we'll keep a car for 10 years or more and then buy another new car.

At first glance the Outlander PHEV seems like the perfect solution for us, as I thought I could use it mostly on EV but it has the capacity to go for weekend away, it's a bigger car for all the family stuff and camping trips.

I've never wanted a SUV but there doesn't seem to be a bigger car option (like large hatch or wagon) in hybrid or EV.

The price is in the range we were willing to spend $35-45K.

I'm hesitant as after searching forums and test driving the car, the range is not 52km on EV as advertised. Well if you don't use air con you may get that. We live in Sydney so in Summer air con is necessary with the heat and humidity. So it drops to 40km EV range with air con. But I think you actually get less than that. I drove it for 32km but it used 38km EV on the dash board. I've read people saying 30km EV range is probably more realistic when using AC or heater.

Do you have one, if so what range do you get?

It also seems like when you use the petrol it's pretty inefficient, like 8l/100km.
What is your fuel usage like? I'd love to know some real life examples.

We are also thinking about going solar for home energy. We currently have 100% GreenPower and use about 10-18kh / day. Charging the car would double our usage, as it need 10kwh (or is it 12).
However charging at night would be most likely and convenient so our solar wouldn't be getting used. I think the rebates are really poor now.
Does anyone have solar and use it to charge their car?

Should we wait a few years for a hybrid with a longer EV range or for a cheaper and larger EV car to come to Australia? Does anyone know if there are any expected to arrive soon?

Any other things I should know to help decide?

Many thanks from a newbie.






mikedufty
Senior Member
Posts: 628
Joined: Tue, 02 Dec 2008, 00:15
Real Name: Michael Dufty
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Contact:

Outlander PHEV-should I get one?

Post by mikedufty » Sun, 08 Mar 2015, 21:22

It definitely counts as an EV, there are a few people in this forum with them who seem to think they are great. I test drove one, but ended up getting the capabilities split between two cars, a $15,000 second hand i-MiEV that gets used around town and a petrol SUV for longer trips. Probably works well for us because I never drive to work, so the SUV is only needed on weekends.

User avatar
Gabz
Senior Member
Posts: 580
Joined: Thu, 08 Aug 2013, 03:30
Real Name: Gabriel Noronha
Location: Maitland NSW
Contact:

Outlander PHEV-should I get one?

Post by Gabz » Sun, 08 Mar 2015, 23:55

http://aussieleaf.tumblr.com/
is a pretty good blog worth a read.

Toyota prius v 7 seater hybrid not an EV. is an option.

you could pick up a 2nd hand i-miev for under $20k and spend that extra $15k on a hire car for camping for the next 10 years.

In terms of solar you need around 3.5 kW of panels to charge the car with not a lot else using power. rebates are poor but do range between retailers see http://noronha.id.au/2014/06/nsw-solar-feed-in-tariff/ you need to add powershop to that list but only 6.4c/kwh but does have green power.

Overnight power is cheapest especially if you have time of use or controlled load 1 or 2 http://rechargingnsw.com.au/charging-yo ... -off-peak/ but you may then need to then pay for extra equipment.

there is not magical car which meets all requirements at the moment. I would love the range of tesla but not the price. etc..
Corporate Member Recharging NSW Pty Ltd. http://rechargingnsw.com.au/

rhills
Site Admin
Posts: 386
Joined: Fri, 25 Jul 2008, 01:57
Real Name: Rob Hills
Location: Waikiki, WA

Outlander PHEV-should I get one?

Post by rhills » Mon, 09 Mar 2015, 05:04

Hi FairyFloss, welcome to the AEVA forum :-)

We bought our Outlander PHEV Aspire in May last year and we love it! I originally wanted an iMiev, but my wife suffered range anxiety and also pointed out that we often needed something bigger. The Outlander fitted the bill perfectly. We have now done 13,200 kms in it and purchased a total of 223L of petrol (ie an average of 1.69L/100km) with the tank currently about 3/4 full still and 1300 on the trip meter since the last fill.

I drive it mostly and my main trips are to and from work (5km total) two days a week and to and from the yacht club (35km each way) two to three days a week. I usually have about 10km range left on batteries when I arrive at the yacht club and about 6km or so when I arrive home (after fully recharging at the club). We've also done some longer trips but I don't recall seeing the petrol consumption (as shown by the trip computer) go higher than 6l/100km which is on a par with the long-term average for our other car, a Golf Bluemotion!

I have to say that my driving style has changed significantly since we bought the PHEV, from a real lead-foot to being very gentle, almost entirely due to the instantaneous feedback from the trip computer and I believe that helps me get good range from the batteries. Driving the PHEV is a joy, especially the regenerative braking. We have not had to clean any brake dust off the wheels yet! On the Aspire, the "Adaptive" cruise control is also superb, matching your speed to the vehicle in front if they're going slower than your selected speed. You just sit back and let the car do the work!

A few months after we bought our PHEV, my brother (crustovich on this forum) also bought one and he has posted some of his experiences with it also. As a parent with 2 kids living in Melbourne, his driving experience may match yours more closely than mine.

When considering range, keep in mind that once you have an electric vehicle, you develop an eye for charging opportunities and you'd be surprised how often they turn up (helped by apps/websites like PlugShare). I've never had anyone turn me down when asking if I could plug my car in (though we do live in friendly Perth). In reality, it rarely uses more than a couple of dollars of electricity for a charge anyway.

You mentioned the Prius hybrid, I hope you're aware of the difference between a Plug-in Hybrid and a "normal" hybrid like the Prius or the Honda. The latter basically have very small battery capacity which can't be charged from the grid (except by some on this forum who have specifically modified them).

WRT your query about solar panels, I believe this is a decision that should be made completely independently of your decision about your car. We have a 5kw system that we are lucky enough to have on a generously subsidised feed-in tariff. If I were buying a system today, I would buy one big enough for our daytime power usage, which might or might not include some vehicle charging. I believe that within another 5 years or so, technological developments will completely change the dynamics of domestic solar systems, with cheaper, more efficient panels, and affordable battery storage making it quite cost effective to go off grid. Don't let that discourage you from buying a small system today, properly sized and designed, it will likely pay for itself inside 6-10 years anyway.

If you have any other questions, please feel free to post them here.

Cheers,
Rob Hills
AEVA Webmaster
2014 Mitsubishi Outlander Aspire PHEV
Jul 2014 - Mar 2019
Total Petrol: 646.6L
ODO: 47979
Av Consumption: 1.35 L/100km

User avatar
jonescg
Senior Member
Posts: 2983
Joined: Thu, 21 Jan 2010, 23:05
Real Name: Chris Jones
Location: Perth, WA.

Outlander PHEV-should I get one?

Post by jonescg » Mon, 09 Mar 2015, 05:32

Although the discussion is about the Outlander, I took the Shacks Holden Volt (another PHEV) for a 64 km drive today. Did the whole lot on electric, and most of that was at about 100 km/h. It's a shame GM didn't try to fit more batteries into the Volt and make the ICE much smaller, cause it's a very nice car all the same.

What you mention about range anxiety with iMiEV versus PHEV is interesting - The Volt leaves you with no concerns at all. However, the thought of regular ICE servicing does make me shudder (I really hate servicing engines!).
AEVA National Secretary, WA branch chair.

User avatar
offgridQLD
Senior Member
Posts: 1825
Joined: Tue, 23 Jul 2013, 16:05
Real Name: Kurt
Location: Fleurieu Peninsula, SA

Outlander PHEV-should I get one?

Post by offgridQLD » Mon, 09 Mar 2015, 14:08

13lt/100km from a Mazda 6 Image

The specs for a 2005 vintage mazda 6 have it as 9.5lt/100km for the Auto and 8.8lt/100km for the manual.

Are you sure that's not (13km per lt)....7.6lt/100km? I know my car car display both on the dash lt/100km and km pr lt depending on how its set.

Just sounds very high. 13lt /100 is terrible for a 2.3lt medium sized car.

The out lander seems to be well priced for what your getting.If it meets your needs. As long as your considering the car because you want a EV for it's many driving benefits and environmental benefits vs any kind of money savings as the later doesn't usually stack up.

Kurt

FairyFloss
Noobie
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun, 08 Mar 2015, 04:17
Real Name: Floss
Location: Australia

Outlander PHEV-should I get one?

Post by FairyFloss » Mon, 09 Mar 2015, 15:48

Thanks for all the replies so far and the links, they are a great resource.

I looked up Plug Share and I have a question - what type of charger could I charge the PHEV off?

From what I've read the PHEV in Australia doesn't come with a fast charging option ie. under and hour. So the only place I can charge is if I'm staying somewhere overnight (friends, families house or caravan park). Is that true?

Is it possible to get a faster charger for the car?

Can you do a partial charge? For example if I'm home for 2 hours during the day.

The dealer advised us the best way to drive the car is to start off using the EV mode in the morning and then switch to "save" when the battery is at a 1/4 full thus turning it into a hybrid option. Eg if you plan on driving 60km in the day, use the first 20-25km on EV and then switch to "save" for the remaining 35-40km. He suggested this would be more fuel efficient as a hybrid rather than exhausting the battery completely and using it as a petrol car. Is this true? How do you drive your car?

User avatar
Gabz
Senior Member
Posts: 580
Joined: Thu, 08 Aug 2013, 03:30
Real Name: Gabriel Noronha
Location: Maitland NSW
Contact:

Outlander PHEV-should I get one?

Post by Gabz » Mon, 09 Mar 2015, 15:56

you want EV Plug or J1772 or wall connector (3112)

no fast charging options it'll take between 3.5 hours and 5 hours from empty to full to recharge.

not possible to fast charge unless you import a Japan or Euro model

you can do a partial charge 2 hours would expect into increase 40%-60% of capacity
Corporate Member Recharging NSW Pty Ltd. http://rechargingnsw.com.au/

mikedufty
Senior Member
Posts: 628
Joined: Tue, 02 Dec 2008, 00:15
Real Name: Michael Dufty
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Contact:

Outlander PHEV-should I get one?

Post by mikedufty » Mon, 09 Mar 2015, 17:54

One of the things I didn't like about the PHEV is it doesn't actually seem to have a selectable "EV only" mode, the engine will always cut in if you try to accellerate hard enough. I assume the salesman meant to use the normal or eco mode.
I'm disappointed I didn't think of trying the Eco mode when I test drove one. Can any owners report if the eco mode does a good job of keeping it under electric power, or does it just make it slower like ICE eco modes seem to.

User avatar
reecho
Senior Member
Posts: 700
Joined: Sun, 17 Apr 2011, 02:39
Real Name: Richard Baird
Location: Perth WA
Contact:

Outlander PHEV-should I get one?

Post by reecho » Mon, 09 Mar 2015, 19:18

Gabz wrote: not possible to fast charge unless you import a Japan or Euro model


You can't import vehicles from overseas unless you own them (and pay all road charges) for at least 12 months in another country.

I think a Chedemo addon will be a viable aftermarket option for the PHEV but it will likely bust the local warranty.

mikedufty
Senior Member
Posts: 628
Joined: Tue, 02 Dec 2008, 00:15
Real Name: Michael Dufty
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Contact:

Outlander PHEV-should I get one?

Post by mikedufty » Tue, 10 Mar 2015, 00:17

I can understand why the left the fast charge option off. Not many places to use it, and since you have the ICE backup there all the time its not really necessary to get anywhere, just good for the feel good factor.

User avatar
g4qber
Senior Member
Posts: 1729
Joined: Sat, 31 Jul 2010, 06:27
Real Name: Joseph
Location: Perth
Contact:

Outlander PHEV-should I get one?

Post by g4qber » Wed, 11 Mar 2015, 15:25

fast charge vital in Japan and for owners who live in apartments.
2011 i-MiEV - k kms 212

User avatar
Johny
Senior Member
Posts: 3729
Joined: Mon, 23 Jun 2008, 16:26
Real Name: John Wright
Location: Melbourne
Contact:

Outlander PHEV-should I get one?

Post by Johny » Wed, 11 Mar 2015, 19:50

Felicity, have you considered the 2nd hand Volt for sale by the Dubbo council? It's on Carsales. Around $33,000. If the Outlander is a bit big for your tastes then the Volt might suit better.
Other than a major accident I can't think of a way that they could have mistreated the Volt - but the price is low.

MrD
Groupie
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon, 23 Dec 2013, 18:59
Real Name: Chris Dalitz
Location: Geurie

Outlander PHEV-should I get one?

Post by MrD » Thu, 12 Mar 2015, 18:00

Hi Felicity - I can assure the Dubbo Volt was well looked after by the Mayor and is a 'steal' at k$33.
MrD-85-TSLA

User avatar
acmotor
Senior Member
Posts: 3595
Joined: Thu, 26 Apr 2007, 03:30
Real Name: Tuarn
Location: Perth,Australia

Outlander PHEV-should I get one?

Post by acmotor » Thu, 12 Mar 2015, 18:11

The Volt and Outlander are chalk and cheese in many ways.
One is a sedan almost electrically assisted ICE, the other a twin electric motored EV with ICE extender 4WD SUV with towbar.
The Outlander will outsell the Volt in Oz by 100:1 at least IMHO.

Chris made the same observation of the Volt.... if only they had put more battery and less ICE it would have been interesting. But then that is the direction a BMW i3 has gone.   Image

I don't own an Outlander but for shear practicality, if I had to buy a PHEV (hybrid EV) the Outlander ticks many boxes right now.
BTW, the aircon uses relatively little energy. Maybe 1kWh per hour so could be as little as 5% of battery. The heater uses a lot more.
Driving style is the biggest factor in range. Learning to relax and being smooth and steady with accelerator and letting the regen do its job can increase your EV range considerably.
For instance, regularly enjoying the great EV acceleration needs to be a 'I know I can but do I really have to all the time' thought.
iMiEV MY12     105,131km in pure Electric and loving it !

User avatar
offgridQLD
Senior Member
Posts: 1825
Joined: Tue, 23 Jul 2013, 16:05
Real Name: Kurt
Location: Fleurieu Peninsula, SA

Outlander PHEV-should I get one?

Post by offgridQLD » Thu, 12 Mar 2015, 19:50

"For instance, regularly enjoying the great EV acceleration needs to be a 'I know I can but do I really have to all the time' thought."

It's just so tempting though. No noise or protesting from the motor, No ..what a hoon looks from bystanders due to the lack of commotion from the car and it feels so good Image

I find that unless I really need to push the range. Trips around 100km+ (imiev) I practice holding the carpet down with the peddle on most lights and up most hills Image

I think there was a report I read once saying that most EV drivers thrash there cars. They wouldn't do it with there ICE car as they would get feedback it's not healthy (noise- vibration - RPM needle in red)You loose a lot of that feedback with a EV.

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Thu, 12 Mar 2015, 08:51, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
acmotor
Senior Member
Posts: 3595
Joined: Thu, 26 Apr 2007, 03:30
Real Name: Tuarn
Location: Perth,Australia

Outlander PHEV-should I get one?

Post by acmotor » Thu, 12 Mar 2015, 23:45

Quite right.
It is probably why mitsi toned down the 80kW that was potentially available from the emotor. They probably sat back and said... Kurt will buy one of these so best not have everything available at the pedal. Image
iMiEV MY12     105,131km in pure Electric and loving it !

FairyFloss
Noobie
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun, 08 Mar 2015, 04:17
Real Name: Floss
Location: Australia

Outlander PHEV-should I get one?

Post by FairyFloss » Sun, 15 Mar 2015, 17:29

offgridQLD wrote: 13lt/100km from a Mazda 6 Image

The specs for a 2005 vintage mazda 6 have it as 9.5lt/100km for the Auto and 8.8lt/100km for the manual.

Are you sure that's not (13km per lt)....7.6lt/100km? I know my car car display both on the dash lt/100km and km pr lt depending on how its set.

Just sounds very high. 13lt /100 is terrible for a 2.3lt medium sized car.

The out lander seems to be well priced for what your getting.If it meets your needs. As long as your considering the car because you want a EV for it's many driving benefits and environmental benefits vs any kind of money savings as the later doesn't usually stack up.

Kurt


Yep its 12.8km/100km. They are always higher than the sticker says. Most of my driving is in the city, averaging about 30km/hr. i do about 34km/day minimum.
Sydney, Australia
Outlander PHEV Aspire 2015
Mazda 6 hatch 2005 -2015

Peter C in Canberra
Senior Member
Posts: 491
Joined: Sun, 27 Jul 2008, 04:05
Real Name: Peter Campbell
Location: Canberra

Outlander PHEV-should I get one?

Post by Peter C in Canberra » Tue, 31 Mar 2015, 03:15

Two friends who were not at all into EVs aside from polite interest in what I did have bought PHEV Outlanders and both are very happy. Both seem to manage to stay in EV mode most of the time for their city driving.
I approve of your 100% greenpower and to me the point of EVs is being able to use greenpower for vehicles as well as at home. Look at my signature if you want a cheaper, tax-deductible way to do greenpower.
We have a 1.8KW PV system. As it happens we got it at about the same time as our first EV. The PV system has made as much electricity as we have used over the past 6 years in our home converted 100% battery car for 45,000km pls as much as we have used in our iMiEV for 18 months and about another 12,000km. The two are not really related though because we get a gross feed-in tariff so all electricity is exported and we then pay separately for all electricity imported.
I would just get the PHEV. It is cheaper to run on 100% greenpower electricity than petrol so win-win all round, environment and wallet.
Daihatsu charade conversion 2009-18, iMiEV 2013-2019, Holden Volt 2018-present, on the ACT's 100% renewable electricity. Kona on order.

ZIPPIE11CAR
Groupie
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri, 22 Apr 2011, 00:36
Real Name: Paul
Location: Perth

Outlander PHEV-should I get one?

Post by ZIPPIE11CAR » Tue, 31 Mar 2015, 18:07

Has anyone done any off road driving in their Outlander PHEV yet?

I'm not expecting serious off-roading comments but any sort of off-roading comments.

I know the car was entered in the Asian rally but would like some "real world" comments on dirt action.

Found some youtube video's of UK blokes towing caravans(European caravans that is, light weight composite, not old school, heavy Australian style caravan) & he said no problems towing at all. But haven't found any decent Australian 4wd vids.

Tow video

Terrible music :)
Last edited by ZIPPIE11CAR on Tue, 31 Mar 2015, 07:39, edited 1 time in total.

ZIPPIE11CAR
Groupie
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri, 22 Apr 2011, 00:36
Real Name: Paul
Location: Perth

Outlander PHEV-should I get one?

Post by ZIPPIE11CAR » Tue, 31 Mar 2015, 18:37

Found this one from Mitsubishi Japan.

Probably better than some of the videos where the people don't know how to use the driving modes off-road.

But in a controlled, non-offroad environment

Shame its not in English :)


Controlled off-road video :)

Another

Looks like the new Pajero will be PHEV aswell.
Last edited by ZIPPIE11CAR on Tue, 31 Mar 2015, 07:38, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
acmotor
Senior Member
Posts: 3595
Joined: Thu, 26 Apr 2007, 03:30
Real Name: Tuarn
Location: Perth,Australia

Outlander PHEV-should I get one?

Post by acmotor » Tue, 31 Mar 2015, 21:10

Yes, very controlled vids.
But in fact negotiating obstacles slowly is a real test of 4WD, particularly traction.
Most people throw the vehicle at situations and use inertia.... The old keep it rolling principal. Never stop at the critical point.
The Outlander is not an off-road 4WD looking at these tests. Like most soft toppers it lacks suspension articulation.
I have owned two landrover discoveries. They understood articulation. The hydraulically activated sway bars were a big part if it. The best of on road sway control and off road articulation. A decade of 4WD of the year awards was deserved.

On the other front, a PHEV Pajero could be a move to an already serious 4WD pedigree.

Still, an Outlander looks good.


iMiEV MY12     105,131km in pure Electric and loving it !

ZIPPIE11CAR
Groupie
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri, 22 Apr 2011, 00:36
Real Name: Paul
Location: Perth

Outlander PHEV-should I get one?

Post by ZIPPIE11CAR » Tue, 31 Mar 2015, 21:18

I think it did well considering.

So many of the "off road" videos have people you don't know how to drive them making the car look worse than it is.

Shame Disco's aren't to reliable...and totally overpriced.

Yes, will be interesting if the Pajero maintains its off-road capability or falls closer to the softroader world.

ZIPPIE11CAR
Groupie
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri, 22 Apr 2011, 00:36
Real Name: Paul
Location: Perth

Outlander PHEV-should I get one?

Post by ZIPPIE11CAR » Tue, 31 Mar 2015, 21:22

Traction in the Outlander "should" be good if its using the electric motors for drive in 4wd mode?

User avatar
acmotor
Senior Member
Posts: 3595
Joined: Thu, 26 Apr 2007, 03:30
Real Name: Tuarn
Location: Perth,Australia

Outlander PHEV-should I get one?

Post by acmotor » Tue, 31 Mar 2015, 22:15

Looking at the bridged wheel spin behaviour in the vids, the two electric motors ( one front axle, one rear) gave the effect like a centre diff lock, good control there. The wheel spin across axle showed no mechanical diff locks ( maybe some LSD, couldn't say) but then the traction control stepped in and the brake grabbed the spinning wheel. This is ok to get you out of difficulty but of course NOTHING replaces total diff locks and articulation when it really comes to 4WDing... Except one motor per wheel with each motor capable of driving the vehicle up a 40 deg slope on its own. This is where EVs will excel in the future... Or even now with the AWD model Tesla.

I did note the driver launched the Outlander up the steep ramp. Like the iMiEV, it would not be able to start on that slope but once under way, no problem, though that slope would likely be beyond the iMiEV anyway. Even a Suzuki Sierra or disco could stop on that ramp then start again in low ratio.

Yes, to the disco reliability issues.
iMiEV MY12     105,131km in pure Electric and loving it !

Post Reply