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offgridQLD
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Post by offgridQLD » Wed, 09 Oct 2013, 14:44

The install is temporary. For now the 7 inch tablet is just sitting on the shelf in front of the stock stereo with two sticky foam tabs stopping it from falling off.

I want to get it all sorted and test the the other features and bugs of a tablet form stereo. Before I pull the stock stereo out and replace it permanently with the tablet.

That said its a great tablet for other things in the house to, so perhaps a less permanent install in the Imiev is a option to.

The Bluetooth scanners range is good enough that I can monitor the car on the tablet when its on charge. The office room in the house is directly above the car parked below in the garage so well within the 10 - 15m range of Bluetooth.

Kurt

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Post by acmotor » Thu, 10 Oct 2013, 05:42

Kurt, is there an option to save data to external micro SD rather than phone SD ? (\sdcard\bt_can\btcan.db) (playing with app now)
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offgridQLD
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Post by offgridQLD » Thu, 10 Oct 2013, 13:50

Not that I know of. Though I am real green on android devises and this app. There is a thread on the US Imiev forum about the app and the developer is posting there.

Do you have the obd scanner tool? I can give you a link to the kind you need the $30 ebay ones don't work they are to slow to communicate all the data at high frame rates. The OBDLink MX Scan Tool is the one I have.I use it for my gas burners to. They are around $140 from the US. There is a guy in the US building a nice option of similar quality for $80.

Kurt

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Post by offgridQLD » Sat, 12 Oct 2013, 04:59

Tonight we drove the 105km trip up to the hinterland where I usually arrive with 2 bars on the Imiev gauge. This time we ran the obd scanner and android app. We hit 2 bars just before the house and the SOC was showing 23% at two bars. We were showing 19.5% on arrival with two flashing bars still showing.

We used a tad more than usual as we had some extra weight perhaps 40kg more than usual, one carton of beer and some tools as well as the normal fridge, luggage and so on.I think i drove a little faster to but not much.

Mitsubishi are giving you the flashing fuel gauge on two bars 23% SOC or 77% DOD

It looks like the 10.5% SOC when you hit turtle measured by another user will be about it.

Battery temps were all around 30 deg C after 105km and a steep climb up the range. Max amps was 170A at around 325v from memory, just over 3c (so its true we do get a little over 50kw) max Regen was around 50A.

cells were all withing 0.03v of each other even at 19.5% SOC

What more could you want.

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Sat, 12 Oct 2013, 03:49, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by acmotor » Sat, 12 Oct 2013, 05:46

That is great data ! Image Those more technical among us will really appreciate it.
It also shows what a fantastic job mitsi have done with the world's first mass production EV. Image

I guess the mitsi techs marvelled over it all for years and then decided in the end ho..hum.. lets just have a speedo. The rest of the info is so predictable.
As things age it will be intersting to see the changes though.
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Post by acmotor » Sat, 12 Oct 2013, 05:48

I'm still waiting on my BT OBD to arrive.
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Post by carnut1100 » Sun, 13 Oct 2013, 01:46

Could I run this on an android phone?
Not so much for instant data but for checking after a run...

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Post by offgridQLD » Sun, 13 Oct 2013, 02:36

Yes the app will work on a Android phone as long as it has Bluetooth and is a reasonably good processor.

Kurt

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Post by carnut1100 » Sun, 13 Oct 2013, 04:41

Xperia Z so should be awesome.

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Post by offgridQLD » Sun, 27 Oct 2013, 02:09

I pulled my etrike out of mothballs today and started resembling its ev components. I also Played around today with the idea of carrying my electric recumbent trike on - in or behind the imiev. I will buy the thule aero roof racks anhow for the Imiev ($305 on ebay) and make some custom wheel cradles. This is quick and easy for short trips and other uses though I will most likely build a aluminum hitch attachment that gets the trike sitting at the rear of the car sitting vertical to cut wind drag. Though the mesh seat is quick release and would cut down drag.

The idea is to use the Imiev as the mother ship and the trike is the little pod to take out have fun or extend range- mobility while public charging. The trike has a 6kw out runner large model aircraft motor (sounds like a jet engine and can be pushed well beyond its rating for short bursts)I stripped down the motor to replaced the crap bearings machined the stator out to fit internal hall sensors so I could run a censored controller, much better throttle control along with a few other mods. The reduction drive/ sipper clutch then sprag freewheel and gates carbon fiber belt to the rear hub. Total drive and motor weight is about 3kg. I have two controllers for it one 100v 100A and another 60v 45A. I run lithium polymer cells that are rated to 90C discharge. Due to there format I an configure the cell packs to create a variety of AH/voltage configurations. Typically I run 10ah 100v pack configuration or split it down to a 20AH 50v pack size. 100v at 100A is real white knuckle stuff on this bike at 30kg . yes I have some nice 200w stickers on the motor and the ability to govern it to that rating through a cycle analyst computerImage The bike peddles smooth and free wheels like stock it's no trouble to ride long distances without using the motor. when ridden conservatively with little peddle assist it can consume below 10whr - km . I have taken it on several 100km + rides.


Image

Image

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Sun, 27 Oct 2013, 06:31, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Monkeyboy » Mon, 28 Oct 2013, 04:27

Way cool,... Image

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Post by offgridQLD » Thu, 07 Nov 2013, 13:22

Just received the Thule roof racks in the mail today. They are quite well made. key Lockable and have a wing shape cross bars. Apparently wind tunnel tested to achieve the quietest outcome with the least amount of drag. They are made in Switzerland and have a 5/25 year warranty not sure what the conditions are of both.


Image

Image


They are listed on the side for Imiev / citron zero, so I don't think they are a one size fits all job. I think the base plates have been made just for the Imiev to follow the contour of the roof line to keep them level. I even noticed they have a slight pre bow to them so they level out flat when loaded to there rating.I have ryno roof racks on out 4wd ute and they are reasonably good though I think the Thule are a step up. They do three designs. A basic Square bar. Then a rounded bar Aero bar.... hmm wasn't that a chocolate bar from the 90s Imageand then the style I got. The Wing bar. The spacing between the bars is 700mm. By the look of it the bars are quite long. Lining them up with the bars on the ute they are the same length. So I am not sure if they need to be trimmed to size. I don't really like roof racks that stick out past the car on the sides.

The Imiev is at the other house at the moment But I will fit them up tomorrow evening and take some pics. I will even drive the 104km home with them on and compare the data for consumption.

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Thu, 07 Nov 2013, 03:19, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Monkeyboy » Sat, 09 Nov 2013, 04:58

SO much valuable research,.... thanks offgridQLD. I've been pondering roof racks as I use my Kiev as a trades vehicle from time to time and the ladder currently rides shotgun!

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Post by offgridQLD » Sun, 10 Nov 2013, 17:01

Thule wing roof rack on Imiev

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

I will have a energy consumption comparison with them on tonight.

kurt


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Post by offgridQLD » Mon, 11 Nov 2013, 00:33

Ok we drove the 104km home as we usually do but this time with both roof racks on the car. We usually record between 99 - 101 whr km. We got 103 whr km this time. Now this time it was bucketing down on the freeway so the sheet of water on the road would have contributed to a lot of that small gain.

I would say the additional consumption is under 1% with the racks on in mixed freeway/country driving. If it was city driving it would have below the resolution of the whr meter.

Given this result I will be just keep them all the time. They don't whistle of drum or make any noticeable noise (tested to 110 kph) so I am happy with that.

I will throw my E recumbent trike up on the racks next time and see what I get.

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Sun, 10 Nov 2013, 13:38, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by acmotor » Mon, 11 Nov 2013, 01:50

So next you need to hitch your tear drop caravan on and test the energy consumption with that.
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Post by offgridQLD » Mon, 11 Nov 2013, 02:06

I don't think the Imiev would even move the teardrop off the line. The Imievs 0 10kmh is so soft. I think if you were on a bit of a hill an needed to do a hill start it would just sit there not moving humming with your foot to the floor.

It feels about the same as taking of in 3rd or 4th in the ute for that first few meters.

It would need a reduction gear / low range option (I wish they did this I would be happy to shift H/L) Just for taking of with a bit more torque.

Once rolling the Imiev is adequate but you don't have that snap off the line. If you need some grunt/snap in a manual car you can just let the clutch out fast and let the fly wheels shock inertia get you rolling. Or in a auto it has a torque converter to do it for you.

It's one downfall of the imiev.

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Sun, 10 Nov 2013, 15:30, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by offgridQLD » Fri, 07 Feb 2014, 00:13

" Solar charge controller - it was pumping around 3300w into the battery's to hold float.
Inverter showed 2400W output. (iMiEV ~2200W + sundry house loads)
Loss 900W this would be 27% ?
iMiEV loss already accounted for in the 2200W.
FLAs consuming some power .... can you measure ? clamp meter cuurent ?
FLAs should approach zero current at float assuming they weren't still in boost charge mode.
Inverter efficiency may be closer to 80% at this load ?
All irrelevant if you have PV power to spare.
"

Regarding the 3300W to cover the Imievs load of 2200W. Thanks to a new calibrated shunt and some data logging along with a new clamp meter that agrees with the shunt.

It showed I have a gain issue on my charge controllers output shunt. It turned into a warranty issue as the trim pots would tame it down. I swapped out the 2nd charge controller I had in a box for the additional 4kw of PV and send the old one was sent off to be exchanged for a new one.

Anyhow I will take some more readings this weekend now they are accurate. With the Imiev on charge and see what I am putting with PV in VS the Imiev load. Its a lot closer now the old unit was reading very high.

I am actually going to use the Imiev this weekend to perform a load test on the old lead acid cells. I will be doing a full charge overnight just on house battery's. The 16kwh should give the 6 year old cells a good 25% DOD cycle and a rough health report with some logging and manual checks as I go. I like to do this now and then to see how they are going as they usually only get very shallow 10% or less cycles and this can mask some capacity loss.

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Thu, 06 Feb 2014, 16:20, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by acmotor » Fri, 07 Feb 2014, 02:18

I tried a house brick climb test just as a matter of interest.
On level concrete driveway... Bricks side on to wheel. 40psi in tyres.

A house brick in front of each front wheel, fine, drives over no effort. 2kW
A house brick in front of both front wheels, drives over, 4kW
Same for house bricks behind front wheels, (reverse)
A house brick in front of each rear wheel, fine, drives over. A bit of speed shudder from controller.
Same power as fronts for both wheels forward and reverse.

Now, bricks on all 4 wheels.
With gentle application of power this stops the i with about 6kW showing in forward and reverse. Not going to go anywhere.
Relax the power to zero and then stab the throttle. Hmmmmm. Rear Bricks were spat out the back and stopped 30m away.
Rear tyres squawked on the ground and left a black mark while fronts climbed over their bricks.
I didn't think it was a good idea to try this in reverse.

So there is a clear climb limit but it seems rate dependent.
Is there a max incline angle number for the i ?
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Post by offgridQLD » Fri, 07 Feb 2014, 03:11

Nice test,
               I only had a problem once when I parked at the lip of the shed slab and then tryed to climb it. Though the sheds slab is more like two bricks thick.

Brisbane is the place to test hill climbing ability. In Paddington there is a street that's so steep it's nerve wracking doing a upturn on it. Feels like your going to roll. My etrike starts chattering the back wheel on the edge of traction limits.

I have driven up the road in Paddington bellow the water tower in the Imiev and took a video doing it a few weeks back but didn't try a hill start I just drove down then up it.

Talking about steep roads my wife and I drove a sprinter camper van up what is claiming to be the steepest street in the world it's in Dunedin NZ . It was steep but not as bad as I was expecting though my wife was panicking a little. Image

Image
Last edited by offgridQLD on Thu, 06 Feb 2014, 17:00, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Peter C in Canberra » Sat, 08 Feb 2014, 00:26

Not in the iMiEV. When I was young and fit I cycle-toured about England and Europe. In Yorkshire, rural roads just went straight up the side of hills with the gradient posted. I am proud to say I got up a 1 in 3 with a full touring load (tent, sleeping bag, etc) without getting off to walk. I would be far more impressed by someone who said they cycled around Yorkshire and the Lakes District than Switzerland. When I got there the gradients were a woosie 1 in 20, albeit 1km up for 20km along, 500g of chocolate the fuel consumed.
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Post by acmotor » Sat, 08 Feb 2014, 02:51

That Dunedin road is 35deg and only second to one in the US at 37deg so some googling says, but who is counting ? The steepest in Perth is probably 18deg and short (Mount St) so not much of a test. What is the angle on that Paddington road ? 25deg ?
Some vid of an i hill start and accelerate up would be interesting Kurt.
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Post by acmotor » Sat, 08 Feb 2014, 03:48

Called in for lunch.
Do you get that feeling that ICEs are so last century ?

Image
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Post by offgridQLD » Sat, 08 Feb 2014, 03:54

Tonight I am experimenting with a overnight charge of the Imiev at the off-grid house. The flooded lead acid house bank is rated to just over 60KWH at C100 (650W load) and around 880AH and 42kwh at c20 (2100w load). Its a 800AH cell at c10 38kwh (3800w load).

Specs below

Short circuit current     6620 A
Nominal capacity at 5 hour rate - C5 to 1.70Vpc     725 Ah
Nominal capacity at 10 hour rate - C10 to 1.80Vpc     800 Ah
Nominal capacity at 20 hour rate - C20 to 1.85Vpc     880 Ah
Nominal capacity at 100 hour rate - C100 to 1.85Vpc     1330 Ah
Nominal capacity at 120 hour rate - C120 to 1.80Vpc     1460 Ah

The cells are almost 6 years old and have had a resonably easy life DOD 10% or less. Although they see some Big loads from my workshop tools , welders,plasma cutters and a few large AC motors. Most of the big loads are in the day time and PV covers a big portion of the load.

The cells get a cycle (under 10%) each day so roughly 2000 shallow cycles on them to date Image

Exide list the cycle lif as follows so in a ideal world I should see 5000 cycles or just over 13.5 years. SO my cells are roughly 1/2 way through there life (in all honesty I would be happy with 10 years)

1500 cycles to 80% DOD
2500 cycles to 50% DOD
3300 cycles to 30% DOD
5000 cycles to 10% DOD

Anyhow tonight they are getting a bit of a work out.Befor I started the house bank were showing 98% SOC and 50.8V just covering base loads. I put the Imiev on charge at 8:30pm and its pulling it's usual 2200W from the wall. The house is consuming another 400w on top of that though the house load varies from 250- 500W. The total load was 54 amps(2651w) and the voltage dropped to 49.1V on house battery.

Just over 1hr later and I am showing 94% SOC and the voltage has dropped to 48.8v under the load. I will be charging 1/2 the imiev battery tonight around 8kwh but I suspect I will need to pull around 10kw from the house bank. I will see how things look then and perhaps try a full charge next weekend.

never know It might do them some good giving them a bit of a shake up.hmmm I hope its sunny tomorrow...."opens new tap to check weatherImage"

Nice photoshop job ACmotor.Im over dealing with Ice motors. I'm starting to look at everything in the garage with a ice motor like fire pumps, wipper snipers, chainsaws, lawnmower even the tractor. Especially everything with a little petrol ice motor. I look at them with the grand plan in mind to convert it all to lithium battery and electric motor driveImage But I have nice Honda 4 stroke gear so it might be some time befor the Ice gives in.

Kurt     
Last edited by offgridQLD on Fri, 07 Feb 2014, 17:18, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by jonescg » Sat, 08 Feb 2014, 04:17

Flooded cells do like a big of a 'boiling' from time to time.
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