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offgridQLD
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Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 23 Jul 2013, 21:58

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Post by Hippie403 » Tue, 23 Jul 2013, 22:29

Congrats on getting a good deal Kurt. I paid $29,990 for my white i-MiEV, thought I would miss out on my preferred colour and was too anxious to haggle.

I think your 103km trip is possible but it will be close. You might end up in turtle mode. Don't use the heating or the A/C at all. I'd play it safe and keep down to 90km/h on the motorway, if that is safe in the traffic conditions.

I'd be interested to hear more about your off grid PV system. I'm in Melbourne and planning to put in some PV soon. I don't think off grid would be practical considering the current cost of batteries, but it will be nice to offset the increased electricity bill for charging the i-MiEV with some PV.

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offgridQLD
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Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 23 Jul 2013, 22:46

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Post by acmotor » Wed, 24 Jul 2013, 04:42

Hi Kurt, welcome to the AEVA forum (especially as you are an iMiEV owner Image )
This is good ! There sounds like a lot of interesting info you can offer, particularly on the off grid topic ! Image
We are small PV but mostly Wind Turbine based 80km North of Perth. Not yet let go of the Western Power apron strings.

Now your 103km run....
Best is to have a coffee stop at a power point planned along the way. Even an hours charge makes a lot of difference (more than make up for the hill). Most days the i will do the run but a head wind for instance can change the performance. Driving at night always seems to use more energy (lights etc?) and just driving slow has its diminishing returns compared to daytime. This also applies to heater etc.

I keep suggesting that driving to zero battery is not smart, for the battery or your anxiety. If you can't plan to get there with 2kWh left then have a backup charge plan.

I actually did 103km on one run today and had 4kWh left. 30km of that was freeway. I then charged for 4 hours at 3.3kW and drove another 85km. (today we reached 30,057km in 2 weeks short of a year in the i)

Your hill 4.5km at say 70km/h will use
(135Wh/km x 4.5km) + (1100kg x 10m/s/s x 450m) / 3600 = 1982.5Wh
say 2kWh at least.
You will notice that on the diving energy meter but going really slow won't change the energy required for the 450m vertical part. It may reduce the 135Wh/km to 100Wh/km (600Wh to 450Wh) but that is only a small improvement.

Yes, the 40km of motorway is the one to rationalise.

Clamp current sensors are the way to go. However the iMiEV energy meter is really accurate in kWh (16 segments = 16 kWh) and the power meter is 16kW of regen ,0, 16kW,32kW,48kW of power. It says it all really !
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Post by jonescg » Wed, 24 Jul 2013, 05:27

Hey Kurt! Welcome to the local forae Image. Make sure you become a member of the AEVA and get along to all the events, there's much knowledge to share.

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Post by offgridQLD » Wed, 24 Jul 2013, 05:34

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Post by acmotor » Wed, 24 Jul 2013, 19:24

The lights at night consumption doesn't add up I agree. Perhaps the cooler temperature at night has an effect too. Cooler batteries, denser air something but the night time difference is real in my experience.

Re battery info... I think this is all on the CAN bus anyway so just access that ? I agree though that the mitsi concept of 'you just don't need to know' is actually very good !

Ah yes, I put my e-jerry can in to boot on long runs....

Image

Never actually used it but often put the power into the i at home to avoid drawing mains at peak power times.

I originally tried a 2500W inverter but it was only good for 1800W continuous so went to the 5000W unit. It supplies up to 3500W continuous. (usual over claim by manufacturers). The standard 10A (2.2kW) EVSE is fine and the inverter also works with 3.3kW EVSE that I have.
The 2.2kW EVSE takes around 50 minutes to transfer 12V battery energy to the i.

The capacity is 160Ah LiFePO4 x 3.2V x 4 = 2.048kW and measuring the power out to i with arlec power meter I get around 1.8kWh to inverter shutdown. Inverter is around 90% eff.
You need to ground the Neutral pin to earth pin at inverter so the EVSE OKs the power feed. (The EVSE contains earth leakage protection shutdown that tests for earth connection of neutral.)

This inverter is pure sine and heavier and more expensive than modified sine inverters. The latter may work as well since the i just rectifies the mains that comes in... however there is a pf correction circuit etc that may not appreciate the harmonics in the more square wave power ?

I recharge off any (regulated) 12V battery charger via the 50A anderson. edit:just out of sight, top RHS of cells.
The BMS shunts at 3.45vpc (13.8V). The inverter shuts down at 10.5V (2.6vpc) and the BMS just sounds the buzzer if a cell goes below 2.5V, but that doesn't happen. 12V arrangements are quite friendly for lithium cells.

DC drain is around 200A so just over 1C on the batteries.
The wiring (2x50sq) is an overkill as are the 350A andersons. This setup was left over from my 12V EV blue gemini experiment.
gemini

Needs boxing up neatly... but maybe I'll go for 4kWh in the future ?

Image
edit:cyplin
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Post by jonescg » Wed, 24 Jul 2013, 19:56

I'd try to avoid a volume any greater than 20 litres for an e-jerry can. It's just too heavy otherwise; you'd strain your back lifting it into the car! Maybe there's a market for expensive, high-energy cells after all...

Whatever you do, please don't build a trailer full of batteries. It kind of sends the wrong message Image
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Post by Tritium_James » Wed, 24 Jul 2013, 20:24

Kurt,

Another reference point for you: I've driven our Leaf from Tennyson to Toowoomba, which was 116km of nearly all highway driving, with a ~700m altitude gain. It *just* made it, hit 0 on the "indicated distance to go" about 400m before getting to the top of the climb up the range into Toowoomba, but kept driving for another 3-4km before I stopped. It would have gone further I assume, but no idea how much! That was very careful driving, mostly at around 90km/h, drafting behind trucks, etc. This was at night with lights and radio running, but no A/C apart from a few bursts to demist the windscreen.

It easily made it back coming downhill. I drove 30km first, + the 116km back to Brisbane, and it still had 20km indicated remaining. The drive back was just normal highway driving, nothing careful, 100-105km/h, just going with the flow.

This makes sense with my calcs. 700m altitude gain with that mass vehicle should take about 4kWh of energy. So the trip up is essentially going that distance with an 80% pack, and the trip back is with a 120% pack.
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Post by offgridQLD » Wed, 24 Jul 2013, 20:39

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Post by offgridQLD » Wed, 24 Jul 2013, 20:52

Tritium_James,
              I know the climb to Toowoomba well. That's 300m more altitude climb up to Maleny on the sunshine cost that I need to do.the distance is 10km more than my trip and a lot more motorway speed.

That's very encouraging and like you said the trip back is a push over in comparison.

If I can eliminate the need to drive our ICE powered car up there each weekend I will be happy as that adds 206km to our weekly driving and around $33 fuel cost.



Kurt
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Post by acmotor » Wed, 24 Jul 2013, 21:18

jonescg wrote:
Whatever you do, please don't build a trailer full of batteries. It kind of sends the wrong message Image


Glenn George drove around Oz with just that.
Can't be that bad an idea ! Actually, I'd have the trailer self powered (own emotor).

Some EV conversions just put the 'trailer load of cells' in the EV. Image and end up with crazy overweight EVs.
No names. Image

edit: oops spelyn
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Post by jonescg » Wed, 24 Jul 2013, 21:36

Glen's new caravan is the perfect way to use a trailer for added battery capacity. At least you can sleep in there and tow your life around. I'll dig up the photo from somewhere...

I don't think many folks would considering hitching a trailer full of cells for a 160+ km drive as a 'practical' solution to extending range. Fast charger half way? Perfect. Until then we'll just need to find room for more on-board Coulombs.

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Post by offgridQLD » Wed, 24 Jul 2013, 21:38

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Post by Jeff Owen » Wed, 24 Jul 2013, 23:36

offgridQLD
PM sent

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Post by offgridQLD » Mon, 29 Jul 2013, 15:58

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Post by Johny » Mon, 29 Jul 2013, 16:51

Hi Kurt and welcome to the forum.
I reckon there is nothing lost by approaching whomeever can grant you permission at the train station. I agree that it would be risky to plug in without their knowledge but it could work out to be good publicity for them and may even result in an EVSE being placed there if it all goes well.

So I think you have nothing to lose and a fair bit to gain by asking.
If things went really, really well you might even find they let you stay plugged in unless they need the outlet and unplug and store the cord for you of that need arises.

Public transport - electric cars - pretty symbiotic really.


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Post by acmotor » Mon, 29 Jul 2013, 17:15

Kurt, this may be a top down request. IMHO

Perhaps the only person with suitable authority (and not likely to say no) is the State politician for the area that that train station is in.
Rail is State and if the MP is not the minister for transport then they will bat on your behalf.

The train station janitor, station master, an employee of Qld rail etc may say yes, but they do not have the authority to do so. If asked they may cite OHS or insurance or accounting as brick walls.

The MP can exercise all sorts of directive powers and require the establishment of policy. They can demolish the above brick walls.
If the MP is EV friendly that is even beter.

The saving grace may be if Qld rail already has an 'EV charging policy'. But that would be expecting too much.
edit: do ask about one first as often the lack of one prompts your approval process.

You are right not to just plug in, particularly in a public location. It could turn out badly. The 'get away with it' croud may think otherwise.

Remember, the key is that the authority to charge must be given by someone with the authority to give that authority. Typically starting with the person who pays the power bill.

If you go through the process, it will benefit all EV owners and maybe help an EV park and ride option, that sort of thing.

15A GPO is good, you will be able to use 3.3kW charger if you get one at some time. Image
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Post by weber » Mon, 29 Jul 2013, 18:34

Hey acmotor. I just saw the eJerryCan (TM). Love it. Image
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Post by acmotor » Mon, 29 Jul 2013, 18:59

Cheers. Image
Yeah, that 1.8kWh can make all the difference !

eJerryCans are perhaps a good case for low cycle number high density cells ?
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Post by jonescg » Mon, 29 Jul 2013, 19:04

And cells which don't mind being kept at high states of charge for long periods of time. I wonder if a 5 amp hour, 360 volt battery could achieve the same thing in a matter of minutes?
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Post by acmotor » Mon, 29 Jul 2013, 19:42

Connecting in via the CHAdeMO would then be required. I'd be interested in that.
Still waiting for a source of CHAdeMO connectors and a breakdown of the CAN code. The 360V may invoke some safety issues compared to 12V though ?

High state of charge may be an issue. That is why I often dump part of charge to the EV and only top up before a trip.
3.45vpc is not the 4.2V that they could be taken to of course.

This eJerryCan is KISS and not warranty voiding (important at this stage). I'll wait the 50 minutes while I dream of next technology batteries ! Image
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Post by offgridQLD » Mon, 29 Jul 2013, 20:36

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Post by Johny » Mon, 29 Jul 2013, 21:01

Congrats Kurt.

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Post by acmotor » Tue, 30 Jul 2013, 00:41

All good ! Nice feeling isn't it !
The headlight sensitivity is adjustable.this post

The RR meter in all EVs is more like a guessometer. Not bad if you are driving more of the same but wildly out if you next 25km are different to you last 25km. e.g. 40km/h city then 100km/h freeway.

I just display odometer and then look at the kWh on the energy 'tank' meter.

Yeah the single wiper is great coverage for RHD (Oz and the iMiEV home country Japan) as it wipes good vision for the driver. I haven't noticed if the Euro (pug etc) reversed the wiper. The US version had 2 wipers.

The sound system... well at least it doesn't have to overcome engine noise. Image
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