Kelly HIM, 156V induction motor controller

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peskanov
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Kelly HIM, 156V induction motor controller

Post by peskanov » Mon, 14 Nov 2011, 04:28

Looking at the leaflet that came with my kelly controller, I found a reference to a higher voltage controller, called Kelly HIM. It goes up to 156V (DC).
The controller is not found anywhere on internet. Does anybody know about it? It's an upcoming product, or vaporware, or...?

Here is a picture of it:

Image

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Kelly HIM, 156V induction motor controller

Post by coulomb » Mon, 14 Nov 2011, 13:51

Reading between the lines, is seems that there are many models, with a nominal (?) 72 V, 120 V, and 156 V rating, and only the 72 V version goes to 1000 A. I'd say the 120 V and 156 V models go to 800 A peak (the HIM1280 and HIM1580 models).

[ Edit: still, 156 VDC nominal (assuming that's what it is) and 800 A RMS per phase output (if that's what it is) for AC is pretty interesting. It shoots the still-coming 144 V Curtis out of the water, at least on paper. The Curtis will be 650 A, or possibly only 550 A RMS per phase. ]
Last edited by coulomb on Mon, 14 Nov 2011, 02:54, edited 1 time in total.
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Kelly HIM, 156V induction motor controller

Post by Catavolt » Mon, 14 Nov 2011, 14:15

They did tell me that they will have full range of KIM controllers early 2012.
The only down fall with these Kelly induction controllers is the 250hz peak in the present range.

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Kelly HIM, 156V induction motor controller

Post by peskanov » Mon, 14 Nov 2011, 14:31

Coulomb,
when manufacturers rate the amps of an AC controller, are they talking about 3-phase current or battery DC current?
I thought it was some kind of current average of the DC bus...

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Kelly HIM, 156V induction motor controller

Post by coulomb » Mon, 14 Nov 2011, 17:01

peskanov wrote: Coulomb,
when manufacturers rate the amps of an AC controller, are they talking about 3-phase current or battery DC current?

My understanding is that they usually specify the RMS current per phase at the output.

It turns out that when the controller is at maximum voltage, then the voltage at the output is about 1/sqrt(2) of the input DC voltage. The power output is (line voltage) x (line current) x (sqrt(3)), which is then about (DC volts / sqrt(2) x (RMS output per phase) x sqrt(3). Neglecting inefficiency and power factor, the input DC bus current (RMS) is therefore the above divided by (DC volts). So the input current is about sqrt(3) / sqrt(2) higher than the output RMS per phase current. Power factor is typically around 0.85, and the pack doesn't supply reactive power (only its losses), so the input current is typically around 1.73 / 1.41 * 0.85 times the output current per phase, or about 1.04x the output current.

Hence most people make the approximation that the DC input current (at maximum output voltage, usually at base speed or above) is the same as the RMS output current per phase, or a tiny bit more. In other words, an 800 amp AC controller is much like an 800 amp DC controller, drawing up to 800 A at maximum power.

As with a DC controller, at lower speeds the voltage will be lower, so at startup 800 A can be generated while only drawing say 200 A from the pack (depending on many factors).

I assume that they usually specify the output RMS per phase current, as that is the limit set by the IGBTs or MOSFETs, but the input current depends on many factors, including characteristics of the motor.
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Kelly HIM, 156V induction motor controller

Post by peskanov » Tue, 15 Nov 2011, 00:33

Good explanation; now I know the magnitude of the currents I should see in my EV. I had a fuzzy idea but now it's pretty clear, thanks.

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Kelly HIM, 156V induction motor controller

Post by Richo » Wed, 16 Nov 2011, 21:10

250Hz peak is still ~7500RPM on a 4-pole.\
So should suit everyone except Telsa Image

I would assume Kelly would print the highest value possible ie input current.
It's all down hill from that point.
Still that suits most small/mid sized cars.
So the short answer is NO but the long answer is YES.
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Kelly HIM, 156V induction motor controller

Post by Richo » Wed, 16 Nov 2011, 21:20

Once again I would say the downside is the max voltage.
156V will probably be the peak or fully charged battery pack voltage.
IF you recharge to 3.6V per cell that is 43 cells or 138V nominal.
This equates to around 100Vac.
For a 4-pole with peak around 4500RPM this is a nominal motor voltage of 33Vac/1500RPM/50Hz.
Not easy to get hold of...
So the short answer is NO but the long answer is YES.
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Kelly HIM, 156V induction motor controller

Post by T1 Terry » Fri, 18 Nov 2011, 13:41

Richo wrote: Once again I would say the downside is the max voltage.
156V will probably be the peak or fully charged battery pack voltage.
IF you recharge to 3.6V per cell that is 43 cells or 138V nominal.
This equates to around 100Vac.
For a 4-pole with peak around 4500RPM this is a nominal motor voltage of 33Vac/1500RPM/50Hz.
Not easy to get hold of...

But charged to a much safer 3.45v per cell it's 45 cells or 144v nom.

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Kelly HIM, 156V induction motor controller

Post by coulomb » Fri, 18 Nov 2011, 13:59

Richo wrote: 156V will probably be the peak or fully charged battery pack voltage.

Well, who knows with Chinese companies (I'm being bigoted and lazy here, I haven't looked up any datasheets), but I suspect that the "industry norm" is strong on this one, so the voltage would be nominal. For example, the 72 V model would be pretty useless if it could not handle a nominal 72 V battery, which could charge to almost 90 VDC.

For example, the Curtis 1238-7501 is nominally 96 V, and has a maximum working voltage of 130 VDC (about a 20% headroom for charging, or 14.4 V per 12 V nominal).
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Kelly HIM, 156V induction motor controller

Post by Richo » Fri, 18 Nov 2011, 21:11

Yes I'm guilty of not reading the data-sheet.
Evedently the "HIM" series datasheet don't exist yet.

BUT on the other versions"

HIMxxyy
Where xx is the nominal voltage (divide by root 2 is the max rated voltage of the motor).
However the 72V nominal is 90V max in the text.
AND Configurable battery voltage range is 1.25xmoninal voltage
So for a 156V nominal rating would be 200V max.
and configurable battery range is 1.25x156V=195V
yy is the max current divided by 10.
So 80 would be 800A.

Question is did they put 200V mosfets in?
Are you willing to recharge to 195V and hope the BEMF doesn't kill it?
So the short answer is NO but the long answer is YES.
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