Toyota Corolla Conversion

Post up a thread for your EV. Progress pics, description and assorted alliteration
lachlanmac
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Post by lachlanmac » Fri, 27 Mar 2009, 05:38

And another thing.

Im still smiling although the charger didnt work and had to go back. I cooked the volt and ammeters and had to replace them. The coupler has uncoupled. While the motor is out and on the ground, we have noticed a funny swishing noise when its hand turned. A bit like something is being moved around inside the casing. I dont think its the brushes scraping and its not providing any noticeable resistance. Has anyone pulled an ADC motor apart? Any ideas?

Cheers

LAchlan

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Post by HeadsUp » Fri, 27 Mar 2009, 05:54

you could retract the brushes and do it again , see if the noise is still there , just dont be holding the brushes with your fingers while turning the shaft coz you will get a zap

you might want to take it to a motor rewinder and give them $ 20 to pull off one end plate to look inside , you dont want to do it on the workbench at home and end up with something not lined up right when its reassembled

some motors use a fibrous string to wrap around armature windings where they meet the commutator , hopefully its only that come loose rather than something like a misaligned field winding rubbing on the armature.

maybe its just a leaf thats been sucked in through the motor vents ?

ps

i know about getting a zap from electric motors , coz i got zapped by a motor-generator ... 1200 volts at 0.5 amps when i was 8 years old , it burnt a hole in the end of my finger , and i washed brown powdered skin out of the hole for a week   Image

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Post by lachlanmac » Sat, 28 Mar 2009, 04:57

I took the coupling to my friend the welder and he is going to organize a laser cut accurate replacement. It may take a week but it will only cost $50 or $60. If the coupling breaks again, at least I will know how to make a good one. I think you learn much more from mistakes than successes. I have learnt a lot!

On the noise in the motor. I was thinking a leaf or something because it sounds but doesnt appear to retard. The motor doesnt have great protection against something falling in. The idea about a rewinder is a good one.

Cheers

Lach


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Post by Nutz » Sat, 28 Mar 2009, 17:34

Sounds like you are enjoying this challenge as much as the initial build, Keep it up, that E.V. grin will be all the bigger in the end.
I hope it is Just a leaf or something simple like that in your motor....an easy fix.
Thanks for keeping us in the loop, my own confidence is building as I read of problems occuring and being solved.
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Post by HeadsUp » Sun, 29 Mar 2009, 05:46

ps lachlan

whoever pulls the motor apart , ask them to do it while you wait and watch personally

wouldnt want to leave it there and come back later to hear that the whole motor was totally stuffed and had to be rebuilt or anything ;)

coz some people out there are just greedy ****


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Post by lachlanmac » Thu, 09 Apr 2009, 04:23

The car is still waiting. Thats good tho as I have been able to focus on our other project. Turning used vege oil into usable fuel. Its a messy filtering problem. The perfectly laser cut metal joining piece turned out to be perfectly too small because they programmed the computer wrongly. Their cost but my delay. I should be getting it back tomorrow but we are going away for easter. It can wait. One of the joys of being a teacher is that I get two weeks every 10 or so to work on stuff like this. It strikes me as peculiar that the only bit I did not feel confident to make and also thought it needed to be done right - is causing so much grief.
Cheers

Lachlan

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Post by Mark T » Thu, 09 Apr 2009, 13:25

My motor made a noise when turned by hand. I took it to Pro-Lec here in Sydney and he said it was a bit of insulation scraping. I assume he just stripped it and trimmed the offending item. All quiet now.

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Post by lachlanmac » Fri, 10 Apr 2009, 05:27

Thanks for that Mark. It does seem unusual that these expensive motor should have such avoidable faults. I will have to do something about the noise or choose to ignore it. I dont know which yet.
Cheers
lachlan

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Post by HeadsUp » Fri, 10 Apr 2009, 14:40

if you bought the motor new , try emailing the factory or distributor , they might give you a service agent to take it to who will check it out for free

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Post by lachlanmac » Mon, 20 Apr 2009, 04:40

The Saga continues.

Im back driving again. With a non vibrating motor this time, although I tense up at every little squeak and rattle. My mechanic friend said I should get a CD player. The strange noise in the electric motor sounds like a bearing cage rolling around as you turn the motor then rolling back to the bottom. Very strange. There is no play or float in the bearings. I am going to have to ignore it until something else happens.

I can now start thinking about and working on the next bits of the project, like covering the electricals, protecting the cables, adding stronger springs to the rear, moving the charger to the front, installing a heater, adding the voltmeter, talking with brake people about vacuum assist or resleeving the master cylinder and making the signs and logos.

Cheers all

Lachlan


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Post by lachlanmac » Sun, 10 May 2009, 05:38

Oh the ups and downs of EV conversions. The car drove wonderfully, then the motor overheated - that noise I think was bearing related. I have sent it back to Sydney so they can pull it apart and decide who is responsible. I will also be doing more work on the coupling as the replaced one is showing preliminary signs of failure after 60km. But again the AEVA comes through as I showed and told at the local meeting and lots of people had lots of ideas including one which seems to make sense. I need to do something to support the flexible disk so it stays centred. I also think I may need a heavier duty disk. They are common on mercedes and a local parts place has 70 different types. If they cope with a mercedec power and torque they should cope with mine.

Im still smiling, but it requires medication.

Cheers

Lachlan

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Post by coulomb » Sun, 10 May 2009, 05:47

lachlanmac wrote: Oh the ups and downs of EV conversions. ... Im still smiling, but it requires medication.

Well, just think of all those poor people that convert their cars and nothing goes wrong. They learn nothing from their (lack of) problems! Image

Please keep us informed, so we don't have to learn the hard way, too.
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Post by lachlanmac » Thu, 21 May 2009, 03:45

And there is good news.
The motor is fixed and on its way back from Sydney. They say that the scraping noise was melted bits of insulation cos I overheated it. The only way that can happen is by putting too much current through it. 200 amps for extended periods is OK. My trouble is that I dont know when I put heaps of current through for an extended period. I suspect now that it was during the first drives when, unknown to me, the flexible coupling was increasing its entropy. I was so busy driving and stopping and trying to source the vibration. The extra load of driving a totally out of balance mechanism may have kicked the current up for too long.

I used a courier company (whose name is three letters and starts and finishes with T) That was a marvellous experience. They picked the motor up at work in Melbourne and dropped it in Sydney next day. 30kg door to door for $37.50. And I have easily organised the return trip, brilliant.

The motor actually has a 120degree normally open temperature switch, which I can wire it to the old oil light. That will stop me cooking it again. It has been a bit of a process to find out about that temp switch. There are two types of people in the EV world, those who know about the switch, and those who dont. I did find a mention of it eventually on a PDF published by advanced DC motors for one of their small 75volt motors. Its not mentioned on info about my motor. I am now one who knows - and so are you.

With all the help and advice I have received about the coupling, I am working with a machinist to redesign it and get rid of the rubber. It will be all steel and strong. A lot of the original design is good and will be kept - but no more rubber!

Cheers

Lachlan







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Post by HeadsUp » Thu, 21 May 2009, 04:17


no rubber ?

emm .... i dont know about that


could create problems , the rubber isolates vibration, reduces wear on the splined shaft , takes a load off the shaft and bearings and reduces noise.

if you have even 0.2 mm of misalignment , given enough time you could create fatigue cracking in the shaft , and prematurely wear out the bearings.

use rubber , but match the rubber element to the torque and speed

talk to coupling experts , ( yellow pages under power transmission ) tell them whats happened already and ask for their 'pinion


good lukc


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Post by lachlanmac » Sun, 31 May 2009, 04:01

Image

Here we go again. This is my revised coupling. A father of a friend of mine is a retired toolmaker and we had many discussions about how to turn the damaged coupling into a working one. He has used the threepointed plate with splines and the keyed disk and joined them with solid collars. And straightened and aligned everything as well. Im happy. The transmission shaft will be supported. The motor is solidly bolted onto the transmission bell housing. I will get started again putting it back in - and wire up the overheat sensor. Tomorrow, sunday.
Im not aiming to finish it - but who knows.
Cheers

Lachlan


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Post by weber » Sun, 31 May 2009, 14:11

That looks way better. Make sure you grease that spline before it goes on.

It is OK for this coupling to be rigid because the allowance for misalignment (but only a very little) is made by this clutch spline being a slightly loose fit on the transmission input shaft spline and a similar loose-fitting spline existing inside the transmission at the other end of that input shaft. i.e. If you grab that input shaft and push it up, down and sideways it should "flop about" ever so slightly. Similarly your coupling should do the same, ever so slightly, on the input shaft. This two-spline flexible couple was necessary to allow for misalignment between the original ICE and the transmission.
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Post by HeadsUp » Sun, 31 May 2009, 14:47


Image


there is a small chance that might be reasonably okay if you dont intend driving the vehicle much

it will be okay if it doesnt result in a sh*tload of vibration and noise

it will be okay if it doesnt chew out the splines

or crack a shaft

or collapse a bearing

or crack a bearing housing

it will be okay if it doesnt cost you more money in repairs to the motor down the track.

edited;

P.S. i forgot to add , misaligned splines will run hotter , therefore the grease will burn off the spline and it will wear out faster


Image

Image
Last edited by HeadsUp on Sun, 31 May 2009, 07:31, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Nutz » Sun, 31 May 2009, 18:06

Gee HeadsUp, full of encouragement aren't you!!
You forgot to mention that we are all going to die.......eventually.
I'm sure most of this has been taken into considderation as a calculated risk. Keep up the good work Lauchlan.
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Post by Squiggles » Sun, 31 May 2009, 20:26

weber wrote: This two-spline flexible couple was necessary to allow for misalignment between the original ICE and the transmission.


Tell me the brands of cars that allow for misalignment between the original ICE and the transmission and I will promise never to buy one!

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Post by weber » Mon, 01 Jun 2009, 00:31

Squiggles wrote:
weber wrote: This two-spline flexible couple was necessary to allow for misalignment between the original ICE and the transmission.


Tell me the brands of cars that allow for misalignment between the original ICE and the transmission and I will promise never to buy one!


They all do. But it's only of the order of 0.2 mm max as mentioned by Headsup a few posts back. If that double spline arrangement wasn't there on the gearbox input shaft the tolerance for misalignment would be exactly zero, which is of course impossible to achieve.
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Post by Squiggles » Mon, 01 Jun 2009, 00:55

8 thou...OK I will accept that...mind you I struggle to put the words misalignment and 8 thou tolerance in the same discussion.

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Post by weber » Mon, 01 Jun 2009, 01:03

Squiggles wrote: 8 thou...OK I will accept that...mind you I struggle to put the words misalignment and 8 thou tolerance in the same discussion.

Well yes, you have a point. It's certainly not in the same league as that allowed by a rubber coupling and so it's probably best treated as if it were zero.
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Post by HeadsUp » Mon, 01 Jun 2009, 03:35

the splined shaft is there to tolerate wear in the clutch plate and compression / release of the clutch allowing it to slide back and forwards along the shaft while still accepting drive torque through both elements

it is not there to tolerate misalignment , in fact you would find manufacturer specifications would be 3 - 5 thou axial misalignment between box and motor , otherwise the gearbox shaft wouldnt be able to fit into the support bush in the end of the crankshaft .

i suspect that the 3 bosses on each flange of his coupling could have radial misalignment of up to 1 millimetre ( 40 thou )

if it was me i would get the 3 holes welded up , get a short piece of splined dummy shaft to hold the assembly in alignment during machining, machine the face on the side where the coupling bolts to and redrill the holes using a CNC machine .

all the holes need to be on the same PCD ( pitch circle diamter ) , and spaced evenly ( 120 degrees apart )

then find a coupling rubber to match the torque and RPM

do all that and you can drive it , thrash its panties off and never have to worry about it.

do it right , do it once.

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Post by Squiggles » Mon, 01 Jun 2009, 04:02

If you are determined to have some form of resilient connection how about adapting a CV joint?

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Post by lachlanmac » Mon, 01 Jun 2009, 04:51

Boy that started some interesting discussions.

My understanding of flexible couplings is that they often allow for a small angular misallignment between driver and driven but are not designed to accomodate coaxial misallignment. On the lathe, the tool maker friend said the difference in centres between the spline and the keyed holes is less than 5 thou. He spent a lot of time getting that right, which included redrilling the bolt holes and straightening the bracket. I wish I had started with him, but of course at that time I had no idea what a coupling should look like.

I will certainly be driving carefully and listening for strange noises from the transmission. The joy of electric cars is that you hear everything. And I will have the 120C warning light.

I do think I damaged the motor on the first long drive. I think the first coupling gave way and caused a bigger load and I was using a digital multimeter to read PD across the shunt. Not as big and bright as the current 3.5 digit display. A big also is that the day was black Saturday here in Vic. It was stinking hot and my mind was more focussed on fires than EVs. It was not the best day for a trial run but my wife didnt want all that work to be burnt, if a fire came through our place.

Anyway, Ive learnt a lot since then and had lots to stick on the forum.

Cheers

Lachlan



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