new newbie section??

Post by **TropicalEV** » Sat, 03 Jan 2009, 03:24

Hi guys,
I got to chatting to a guy a litle while ago and we ended up discussing EV conversions....(Of course...doesn't everyone?) He was pretty excited about the idea and especialy the fact that you could buy the required parts off the shelf. I directed him to this site saying
" everything you need to know is on there or there is someone to ask"

I ran into him today and he said "bugger that!...Have to be a rocket scientist to work it out!"
" I had a good look at that site and couldn't understand HALF of it! I'll wait till it's a bit easier"

Now I ask PLEASE read this post before replying..It is meant to be complimentary NOT derogotory!

The level of knowledge amongst the members of this forum is staggering. It is thanks to you guys and those like you around the world that EV conversions of the calibre we have now are even possible. The only problem I see is that newbies looking at this site are bewildered by all the techno-talk and maybe turned off by it. I have fallen victim to this in a small way by thinking my EV bike was going to cost me over 10 grand! It dawned on me recently that ...I don't need to have the latest and greatest "GA12345 batteries coupled to a busted aholetwist with a titanium dooviwhatisit" to have an EV bike...It can be done with dodgy flooded lead and a DC starter motor! Any improvement on that is all good! ( before you say it..I know it wouldn't work)

You guys have been there and done it....Made your mistakes and had your wins...Your experience in invaluable to those just getting into it.

The problem as I see it is that newbies reading these posts might get scared off! I know the tech talk scares the be-geezus outa me!

What I would like to propose is a "Newbie section" Maybe all the guys on here with the experience could each nut out an entry level conversion for "x" car and "x" bike and post it., If people want to improve on them they can delve into the rest of the forum and take their chances

The results could be collated into a list of conversion options...I know each conversion is as different as the cars and the individual doing it but surely we could come up with some generic stff we can all agree on?

So what do you think guys??? Maybe our esteemed administrators could make a new heading to put everyones posts under or sort them into something useable?

Asbestos jacket on ...ready for a flaming

Post by **Taffy** » Sat, 03 Jan 2009, 05:20

I think build diaries are the best way for a newbie to see what can be done. If they are clear, show each part etc.

A few example set ups in once stickied post to give people are start for what they should be getting:
Sporty (High performance), Train runner (Sub 50km low speed), daily driver, scooter and go kart.

EG:
Sporty
Motor: Three phase AC With ....
Controller:
Wiring setup:
Batteries:
Charging:
Safety controls:
Est cost total:

Possible a simple (Break it down to simple pieces which your average joe will understand) post on motors, controllers, batteries and circuit diagrams. Basics only, if they want to know more they can dive into the rest.

Just remember that most people on there are surrounded by EV's and follow this stuff day in day out. You will take many things for granted that others out there dont know, its a common problem for people explaining a project they are working on to others.

Just my thoughts on the issue.

Post by **Rattrap** » Sat, 03 Jan 2009, 16:16

I know exactly what you are talking about TropicalEV, i've felt it myself. A newbie section would be exellent IMO.
I remember from my early days of studying TV's & VCR's we used to break down the very complicated circuitry down into basic block diagrams then if necessary some of those blocks could be broken down further into more block diagrams. It made getting a handle on the whole operation much easier. I feel that EV newbies would benefit greatly from something similar.

Post by **Goombi** » Sat, 03 Jan 2009, 16:57

Lets start with DC and DC only. There is a excellent knowlege bank here for DC conversion...Total list of parts and cmponents available from China to US For newbies this is a MUST starting point.
AC conversion is still a complex technology and for someone that wish to enter the electric vehicle world they will have to start at higher knowledge level.. I have always been an advocate for simplicity and I think simplicity is a way to go. Its cheaper and trouble free in a long run

Post by **a4x4kiwi** » Sat, 03 Jan 2009, 17:09

Can we add a wiki, separate to the forums. Along the lines of wikipedia. Then we can all contribute what we know on various defined subjects. These would be in a format easier to read than the forums. Any gems from the forums can be copied by the author into the relevant topic. With editing this could almost become a book.

Suggested wiki pages

Introduction to EV
Donor vehicle selection
Motors DC
Motors AC
Controllers DC
Controlelrs AC
Suspension
Gearboxes Manual / Auto
Brakes
Clutch
Batteries Lithium
Batteries LA
Batteries SLA
Batteries in development
Safety
ADR rules / State by State rules
Whatever I have forgotten.

Post by **Rob M** » Sat, 03 Jan 2009, 17:40

I fully support the above concept and would be willing to help.
There is a lot of valuable information scattered through the forum threads. It is becoming difficult to find anything specific and even more difficult to verify or confirm as accurate.
As with Wiki, there needs to be proper referencing so we dont finish up with lots of conflicting opinions.
This would be a good topic to put on the agenda for this month's WAEVA meeting. I'll talk to Dave W.
Cheers

Post by **woody** » Sat, 03 Jan 2009, 22:25

I like the wiki idea

Is there some nice free open software for doing circuit diagrams etc so people can document their working vehicles/ideas? (Picture tells a thousand words and all that)

Post by **TropicalEV** » Sat, 03 Jan 2009, 22:44

Thanks for your support on the idea guys...That's awesome

The Wiki thing could be a goer....I'd never heard of them before

( I may be a nerd in many ways... but not a computer nerd) LOL
Keep the ideas rolling!

Post by **Peter C in Canberra** » Sun, 04 Jan 2009, 06:11

Wikis etc. would be great. In the meantime there are some excellent resources elsewhere that helped when I was a newbie and still do. For example, google kiwiEV and EVcapri. These people and others you can find on the net have taken a lot of trouble to document their conversions in new bite-sized chunks. Keep following links and you will find all sorts of handy stuff.

Post by **rhills** » Fri, 09 Jan 2009, 20:39

woody wrote: I like the wiki idea

Is there some nice free open software for doing circuit diagrams etc so people can document their working vehicles/ideas? (Picture tells a thousand words and all that)

Have you tried Dia? It's an open source program (ie free, as in beer) that is "is roughly inspired by the commercial Windows program 'Visio', though more geared towards informal diagrams for casual use" (to quote from the home page. You can download a Windows version from here.

I can read a circuit diagram (up to about 5 components anyway

) so I'm not really a good judge on how useful Dia is for doing circuits, but it seems to have all the common symbols available and this guy seems to think it's pretty good and seems to have come up with a complex (to me anyway) circuit with it.

HTH,

Rob Hills

Post by **Johny** » Fri, 09 Jan 2009, 21:02

I'll try it. I've been using Word drawing tools for my Brake and Heater control circuits (needed Pulse Width control) which is VERY clunky and I didn't want to start with the packages they use at work.

Post by **Striker** » Fri, 09 Jan 2009, 21:03

A wiki is planned, but it is for the new website, which is currently in development.

At this point I am not sure how long it is going to take for the new website to be ready.

Andrew and I are currently working hard in plans for the new site, but we will need the new forums up and running before we can add the wiki (wiki authentication will be controlled by the forum database).

Anyone who would like to write articles for the wiki is more than welcome to put up their efforts.

--Striker.

Post by **melt** » Sun, 08 Mar 2009, 23:32

I agree that there is a need for a separate, introductory page for newbies to conversions. I would add to that, though.

Many of you are experts via lots of hard work and experience. However, to quote MikeG

"90% of people won't be doing a DIY conversion, let's be realistic."

Most of the discussions in the General EV Forum are technical, despite the description of the forum. I feel this is daunting for those of us who don't have the technical knowledge but still support the concept of EVs (and hopefully one day will be able to afford / access one). Might I suggest that the technical stuff- which is vital to be shared- be kept in the technical forums?

This would allow more than 90% of the population - the group who need to be able to access information if EVs are going to move out of their niche- to recognise AEVA as the representative group to go to for answers. Having easy-to-get-into discussions without the techinical stuff will help inspire so many more people.

Post by **Goombi** » Mon, 09 Mar 2009, 05:26

Here here

Post by **EV2Go** » Wed, 11 Mar 2009, 18:28

Depends on how you define “General”... General can still be technical it is just non topic specific.

However yes I agree it would be good to have a newbie section that is totally flame free, so no matter how dumb the question is, a newbie and those not so new but mechanically or electrically inept can ask safe questions knowing it will be answered in a non technical way. There are probably people out there that currently don’t post because they figure their knowledge level is so much lower than some of the forum experts, but sometimes a beginner can get much more from a novice answer than an expert.

If the question requires escalation for a more technical response, then a new post would be required asking a more specific question in the non newbie section.

Post by **antiscab** » Thu, 12 Mar 2009, 05:23

this we could probably do.
conceptually, the how each component works and what it does in relation to the rest of the vehicle isnt to hard to explain.

explaining how to pick which component from a series of similar components is, however, much harder. It is IMHO, better left to asking the question, i need x range, at y speed in a vehicle that meets z needs.
its the explaining the maths and physics (and sometimes chemistry) that justify the selection of the more informed and experience members is what gives headaches.

If a prospective EV owner isnt interested at all how an EV works, or even what components are required, and are just interested in driving electric, then they arent likely to be converting a car in their back yard.
there isnt anything wrong with this, just as not everyone who drives an ICE vehicle is a mechanic, not every EV driver is an electrical or mechanical engineer
these people are better suited to contacting www.bev.com.au or www.evshop.com.au or www.evwa.com.au for batch or custom built EVs, where an experienced EV'er can make the design decisions and implemenet them.

Matt

Post by **melt** » Thu, 12 Mar 2009, 05:51

Exactly. However my understanding of AEVA is that it is not just for those who do conversions - it is for anyone who is interested in EVs. The membership page (which I acknowledge I am yet to officially sign up for) states "All converters, builders, owners, drivers and all round EV enthusiasts are welcome here." Directing people who are interested to other sites will actually make it a far less representative association, which means less influence when it counts (eg government policies, rebates, general community acceptance.) Just because I don't do the conversion myself doesn't mean I'm not interested in participating in the broader issues.

The main forum list describes the General Forum as "Open for any sort of non-technical discussion regarding EVs" and there is a separate technical forum. So it is already defined as non-technical.

If my understanding of the organisation is wrong and it is just for converters, let me know & i'll start a rival one

Post by **antiscab** » Thu, 12 Mar 2009, 08:17

Hi Melt,

The AEVA is indeed for anyone interested in Electric Vehicles.
The AEVA is still largely an old fashion medium organisation.
Our online presence is relatively limited (though striker and Andrew are having a crack at fixing this)

melt wrote: Exactly. However my understanding of AEVA is that it is not just for those who do conversions - it is for anyone who is interested in EVs. The membership page (which I acknowledge I am yet to officially sign up for) states "All converters, builders, owners, drivers and all round EV enthusiasts are welcome here." Directing people who are interested to other sites will actually make it a far less representative association, which means less influence when it counts (eg government policies, rebates, general community acceptance.) Just because I don't do the conversion myself doesn't mean I'm not interested in participating in the broader issues.

the other sites i have mentioned aren't "how to sites", rather they are places where you can *buy* a pre-made EV, so you dont have to learn how to make one yourself.

This forum is run by the AEVA, and is for discussion of all things relating to Electric Vehicles.
The reason you see technical discussion the most, is because thats what the majority of the active users happen to discuss.

Those who are more interested in the other aspects of EVs are more than welcome to start threads discussing the other aspects.
Things like insurance, rebates and parking are non-technical threads ive seen pop up recently.

The broader issues are more often brought up in the branch general meetings, rather than online in this forum.
alot of our members (including office holders) dont use the internet, so those on this forum represent only the relatively computer literate side of the AEVA community who have a bit of spare time during the day (even then, not everyone here is actually a member)

If you prefer more non-technical discussion, go to a branch meeting.
If you prefer more non-technical discussion online, try and get more like minded people to sign up, it is good to see a broader spectrum of people on here.

melt wrote: The main forum list describes the General Forum as "Open for any sort of non-technical discussion regarding EVs" and there is a separate technical forum. So it is already defined as non-technical.

This is more a problem of moderation.
Do i move a thread that started with a non-technical question that has become a technical discussion?
how do you define technical?

I the past i haven't moderated any further than to keep spam in check. I haven't actively tried to keep technical discussion out of the general area, as some questions really do require a technical answer.

Matt