Coulomb joins the MG ZS EV club

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coulomb
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Coulomb joins the MG ZS EV club

Post by coulomb »

New EV purchases are hopefully becoming more common now, but I thought I'd post a pair of pictures to mark my family going all-EV. I still have the 2012 Leaf, which still has 12 health bars (second battery) and still has range for 99% of our running about needs. Our dealer, Zac, took leave this week to attend a wedding in Sydney, so we were worried that we would have to wait till next Tuesday (two Monday public holidays in a row here in Queensland), but he kindly handled things by phone for us, and arranged for another dealer to do the handover.

I was watching the number plates while waiting, and thought I'd end up with a BN number (Queensland number plate "numbers" have only 2 letters until about 2045). That's OK I thought, BN for BrisbaNe. Then I saw a BO plate... eww. But luckily, I ended up with a nice, no-nonsense BS plate ;)

Showroom ribbon sm.jpg
Showroom ribbon sm.jpg (147.29 KiB) Viewed 2796 times
Those white rectangles that look like sheets of paper are actually reflections from the overhead lights.

So now we are a true, two blue, EV family :)

Two blue sm.jpg
Two blue sm.jpg (246.54 KiB) Viewed 2796 times
Between the two cars, you can just see the EVSE I use for the Leaf. It has a J1772 plug; I've ordered a type 1 to type 2 adapter. I'm yet to find out if the adapter and plug will be too rickety or too much strain on the ZS's type 2 socket. The EVSE (a Zwet Chinese one, 6-16 A adjustable in 1 A steps) is plugged into an industrial style 15 A socket, which has its own circuit and 20 A breaker. It runs off my two inverters, so ≈98% of EV charging (so far) has been free from solar. I'm wondering if I'll want to have the option of charging direct from the grid for the ZS. I might get a second EVSE, possibly an OpenEVSE, possibly wired direct to the grid so I don't have to worry about the inverters changing over to grid in the middle of the night at high load. We might still charge the ZS mostly from solar, we'll see how that goes. But it makes it more important to set it up so that it optionally charges only as much as solar will allow. I'm still thinking about how to do that, since my system isn't AC coupled.

[ Edit: Added sentence about the white rectangles. ]
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Re: Coulomb joins the MG ZS EV club

Post by jonescg »

Wonderful to see :) Kat and I did the same - giant bow and all that.

WA has been using a new numberplate format starting at 1AAA*000 and steadily increasing. Latest plates I spotted were 1HHN*123 or something. SO you can tell who's got a new car pretty easily. I'm keeping my state issued plates as they're a bit unique. Every man and his dog in WA has a personalised plate, so I thought I'd be different :)
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Re: Coulomb joins the MG ZS EV club

Post by Nagaman »

Nice work Mike , I’ve always hankered for a blue car from the days of Dinkies and Tim the Toyman.

Talked about plates, I was surprised to see the choice available in Custom Plates.
I have a collection covering the eniro, ekona, Byton etc in Victoria.
Seems it’s a good time to take advantage of the EV ignorance……one day they’ll be more valuable.
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Re: Coulomb joins the MG ZS EV club

Post by FyKnight »

Have you got the Type 1 to Type 2 adapter yet @coulomb? I'd like to order one too for connecting to older chargers that I've come across. The newer chargers supporting Type 1 seem to have a Type 2 socket then a Type 2 to Type 1 cable attached. On those I can just unplug that cable from the EVSE and plug in my own Type 2 to Type 2 cable. But the older chargers have a fixed Type 1 cable (probably because there is no spec for a socket at the EVSE in J1772) and my cable is no use.

Great colour choice too btw, glad you went for the Regal Blue. I was just in Queensland this week and caught out by the double Monday public holiday (we got neither in NSW!)... was pleased to see two EV charging bays (both empty) at Mossman Gorge when I visited.
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Re: Coulomb joins the MG ZS EV club

Post by coulomb »

FyKnight wrote: Sat, 08 May 2021, 15:13 Have you got the Type 1 to Type 2 adapter yet @coulomb?
Yes, it arrived Thursday. It works as expected, but it juts out from the car enough that the charge cover ends up resting on it. It seems solid enough, even with a type 1 plug out the end. I should take a photo next time I use it.

[ Edit: it was AU$85.98 including GST and "free" delivery for the 32 A adapter. ]

I'm looking for a suitable type 2 to type 2 cable. I could use the adapter plus my type 2 to type 1 cable, but it's only 16 A, and shuffling it between cars seems destined to guarantee than when I need it, it will be in the other car. I made a snug place in the boot for the adapter to live, but all that will change if/when I get the space-saver spare tyre organised.

Edit 2: One minor hassle is that the J1772 "trigger" doesn't stop the charge. So I have to train myself to fish out the key fob, open the car (thus stopping the charge, acknowledged by the zzzit sound of the type 2 socket unlocking), then remove the J1772 plug. It's no hardship.

[ Edit: This was only ever a 32 A version. I'm thinking of "colours" for type 2 to type 2 cables (single or three phase, 16 or 32 A). Sigh. ]
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Re: Coulomb joins the MG ZS EV club

Post by FyKnight »

Awesome thanks coulomb! I'll get the same one then. Since you've described the 32 A variant as the colour I know exactly where you got it from :D

For the Type 2 cable I found the cheapest (including delivery) single phase 32 A cable available on that same site. It's 5 m long, a kind of fluoro green in colour and was AU$176.13 / AU$193.74 in total (seems that the exchange rate has improved a little since then). Despite my stinginess it works perfectly with 7 kW chargers. I checked the sense resistors in both ends of the cable and they match what it was sold as.
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Re: Coulomb joins the MG ZS EV club

Post by 4Springs »

coulomb wrote: Sat, 01 May 2021, 10:52 Coulomb Joins the MG SZ EV Club
I was hoping that this heading meant that Coulomb had joined his local MG Car Club!
I was talking with someone recently about whether you'd be welcomed into such a club, or if the ZS EV would bee seen by the traditionalists as 'not an MG'...
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Re: Coulomb joins the MG ZS EV club

Post by Rusdy »

Hi @coulomb ,
Now I see the photo side by side, is the leaf really almost as big as the ZS EV?

Or lens effect?

I was expecting it to be bigger than the kona.
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Re: Coulomb joins the MG ZS EV club

Post by coulomb »

Rusdy wrote: Mon, 10 May 2021, 05:57 is the leaf really almost as big as the ZS EV?
I was expecting it to be bigger than the kona.
The Leaf is actually slightly longer and with slightly longer wheelbase, but a lot of that length seems to be low down in the Leaf, presumably for a lower drag coefficient. The Kona is a smaller vehicle, though with a longer wheelbase than the MG and almost as wide. The boot in the MG seems much larger than the Leaf.

Code: Select all

Vehicle      Length  Wheelbase  Height  Width
Leaf          4445      2690    1545    1770
MG ZS EV      4314      2585    1644    1809
Kona EV       4180      2600    1570    1800
Sources: Leaf 2012 brochure, ev-database.org for the other two.
MG ZS EV 2021 April 2021. Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
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Re: Coulomb joins the MG ZS EV club

Post by coulomb »

coulomb wrote: Sat, 08 May 2021, 17:02
FyKnight wrote: Sat, 08 May 2021, 15:13 Have you got the Type 1 to Type 2 adapter yet @coulomb?
Yes, it arrived Thursday. ... I should take a photo next time I use it.
Photos, as promised. It's a fair size, 150 mm long:

Adapter in hand sm.jpg
Adapter in hand sm.jpg (97.96 KiB) Viewed 2519 times
I have a place to stash it under the boot floor, for when not in use, for now. Those are two cardboard boxes waiting to be recycled; one was the perfect size, the other had to be cut down by 15 mm. The boxes sit in an otherwise empty square area in the provided foam block:

Adapter snug fit sm.jpg
Adapter snug fit sm.jpg (411.67 KiB) Viewed 2519 times
This is it ready for use:

Adapter plugged in sm.jpg
Adapter plugged in sm.jpg (291.29 KiB) Viewed 2519 times
The charge cover-thing with the MG logo actually rests lightly on the J1772 plug:

Adapter plugged close-up sm.jpg
Adapter plugged close-up sm.jpg (189.4 KiB) Viewed 2519 times
Without the J1772 plugged in:

Adapter alone sm.jpg
Adapter alone sm.jpg (235.45 KiB) Viewed 2519 times
As mentioned before, it seems solid enough. When charging publicly with a type-1 plug (hopefully very rare now), someone could just unplug the type 1, but the adapter will remain locked to the car. So nothing (of mine) is easily stolen. It's all easily broken, of course, e.g. if someone sat on the type 1 plug. I'm quite happy with it for charging at home (now 6-16 A adjustable, compared to 8 A fixed before), and for the occasional opportunity charge at a type 1 EVSE.
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Re: Coulomb joins the MG ZS EV club

Post by FyKnight »

Fantastic photos thanks coulomb!! I'm so jealous of your MG-branded granny charger that actually fits in the spot for it. Not only did mine come with a generic one, but it doesn't even fit into the foam.

I'm not too worried about someone sitting on the adapter. There are so many things in / on cars that are easy to break, e.g. wing mirrors, keying.

So the J1772 plug doesn't lock itself to this socket when it is charging — anyone can remove the plug. But I thought when you press the button on the plug, it changes the voltage on the proximity pin, and the car stops charging to avoid sparks when removing it, right? Doesn't the car then release its lock on the plug? Or is the proximity pin not wired through?

Also it's excellent that you have fine control over the charging current now. If you ever have time for an experiment, I'd love to know whether it's better efficiency-wise (thinking of solar charging here) to charge at low current or high current. You could charge for an hour at 16 A and observe the change in SoC / voltage reported by the car. Compare it to the theoretical 3.84 kWh input. Then charge for a few hours at 6 A and do the same calculation.
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Re: Coulomb joins the MG ZS EV club

Post by coulomb »

FyKnight wrote: Tue, 11 May 2021, 14:20 So the J1772 plug doesn't lock itself to this socket when it is charging — anyone can remove the plug.
They have to know to press the button, but that's a pretty low bar to jump.
But I thought when you press the button on the plug, it changes the voltage on the proximity pin, and the car stops charging to avoid sparks when removing it, right?
Yes, but type 2 is different, and uses that pin for a different purpose (cable current limit).
Doesn't the car then release its lock on the plug?
No.
Or is the proximity pin not wired through?
No. The adapter has a 220 Ω resistor from PP (type 2 side) to earth, signalling 32 A "cable" current capacity. The PP pin on the type 1 side doesn't seem to connect to anything (though the pin is present).
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Re: Coulomb joins the MG ZS EV club

Post by shallowal »

coulomb wrote: Tue, 11 May 2021, 15:58
FyKnight wrote: Tue, 11 May 2021, 14:20 So the J1772 plug doesn't lock itself to this socket when it is charging — anyone can remove the plug.
They have to know to press the button, but that's a pretty low bar to jump.
But I thought when you press the button on the plug, it changes the voltage on the proximity pin, and the car stops charging to avoid sparks when removing it, right?
Yes, but type 2 is different, and uses that pin for a different purpose (cable current limit).
Doesn't the car then release its lock on the plug?
No.
Or is the proximity pin not wired through?
No. The adapter has a 220 Ω resistor from PP (type 2 side) to earth, signalling 32 A "cable" current capacity. The PP pin on the type 1 side doesn't seem to connect to anything (though the pin is present).
Hmm!!, that's not my experience with my M3 Tesla. When I use the same adapter as you have with a type 1 chargepoint EVSE I get the following action:
1. Press the button (mechanical and electrical release) on the type 1 plug.
2. Vehicle acknowledges, shuts down the charging current and releases the latch inside the car.
3. I remove both the type1 plug from the adapter and the adapter from the car.
4. Car shuts the charging port.

On my home OpenEVSE I have added a switch to the type2 connector that adds a 330 ohm resistor in series with the built-in 150 ohm resistor. When the switch is pressed the car shuts down the charge and unlatches the plug.

I see in the wikipedia article about J1772 signalling (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772) there is a section that discusses an additional resistor on the Proximity wire to indicate cable capability, but this is on the EVSE end of the cable, not the vehicle end.
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Re: Coulomb joins the MG ZS EV club

Post by shallowal »

coulomb wrote: Mon, 10 May 2021, 09:59
Rusdy wrote: Mon, 10 May 2021, 05:57 is the leaf really almost as big as the ZS EV?
I was expecting it to be bigger than the kona.
The Leaf is actually slightly longer and with slightly longer wheelbase, but a lot of that length seems to be low down in the Leaf, presumably for a lower drag coefficient. The Kona is a smaller vehicle, though with a longer wheelbase than the MG and almost as wide. The boot in the MG seems much larger than the Leaf.

Code: Select all

Vehicle      Length  Wheelbase  Height  Width
Leaf          4445      2690    1545    1770
MG ZS EV      4314      2585    1644    1809
Kona EV       4180      2600    1570    1800
Sources: Leaf 2012 brochure, ev-database.org for the other two.
How does the MG ZS compare to some common "family" SUV's for size?. eg: Subaru outback/forester, Ford escape, Mazda 5CX etc.
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Re: Coulomb joins the MG ZS EV club

Post by coulomb »

shallowal wrote: Wed, 12 May 2021, 11:43 Hmm!!, that's not my experience with my M3 Tesla. When I use the same adapter as you have with a type 1 chargepoint EVSE I get the following action:
1. Press the button (mechanical and electrical release) on the type 1 plug.
2. Vehicle acknowledges, shuts down the charging current and releases the latch inside the car.
Interesting. I suspect that your Chargepoint EVSE may have the proximity wire connected through to the computer in the EVSE. That computer then acts on it being pressed, changing the pilot signal, which will get through to the car's computer, and it would then be the car computer that unlocks the type 2 socket (zzzzip). Having the proximity pin connect back to the EVSE is actually against the standard, but seems harmless enough if the type 1 cable is tethered (as it normally is).
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Re: Coulomb joins the MG ZS EV club

Post by shallowal »

I went and checked the wiring of my adapter plug and all the wiring is straight through. There is no resistor or any other "circuitry inside.
This makes sense to me, because the adapter is unlikely to be a limiting factor in the charge current, unlike the cable.
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Re: Coulomb joins the MG ZS EV club

Post by coulomb »

shallowal wrote: Wed, 12 May 2021, 16:22 I went and checked the wiring of my adapter plug and all the wiring is straight through. There is no resistor or any other "circuitry inside.
This makes sense to me, because the adapter is unlikely to be a limiting factor in the charge current, unlike the cable.
And 10¢ cheaper to make, too!

But if the EVSE sticks to the standard, open circuit implies a maximum of 6 A. My guess is that most EVSEs would guess that the cable really isn't 0.75 mm², and is a non standards compliant cable, and won't limit the current. Or at least not to 6 A.

Edit: But type 1 EVSEs are usually tethered, so I think I'd prefer your type of adapter. Of course, you're sadly unlikely to get details like that from a site like Ali Express. I wonder if the car specifically looks for an increase in resistance after the connection has been made to terminate the charge, and/or for the decrease in resistance to tell it that this is not a type 2 cable. And I wonder how many cars do this.
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Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
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Re: Coulomb joins the MG ZS EV club

Post by coulomb »

My type 2 to type 2 cable arrived yesterday, three days early, and of course when my wife had the ZS most of the day.

I found that the type 2 cord fitted perfectly in the square space in the foam, and I could rearrange the other foam to fit it reasonably neatly:

Cable fits nicely sm.jpg
Cable fits nicely sm.jpg (312.42 KiB) Viewed 2203 times
I tested it today by shopping a little further away than usual:

Charging at Coles sm.jpg
Charging at Coles sm.jpg (350.23 KiB) Viewed 2203 times
It started charging on about the fifth attempt. Those Schneider EVlink EVSEs are tricky to get going, and I hadn't used them for months, and not familiar with the car... But it should be much easier next time, when possibly I'm more in a hurry. It was nice to see over 15 A going into the battery, coming close to maxing out the charging port. That's according to Car Scanner, using the newly added ZS EV PIDs (Parameter IDentifiers).

Next practice / test: DC charging 🎺.
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Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
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Re: Coulomb joins the MG ZS EV club

Post by kesselrig »

Hi Coulomb and FyKnight, can you let me know where you sourced your Type 2 cables? We're picking up our ZS on Thursday and, given this will be our first EV, I'd rather order a cable that is known by the community to work with our vehicle. Thanks!
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Re: Coulomb joins the MG ZS EV club

Post by coulomb »

The original page for mine was something like this one:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32815080747.html

It says "Sorry, this item is no longer available!". I find that this happens a lot with Ali Express; you can never find the exact same item again. I suggest just searching Ali Express for keywords such as "type 2 to type 2" and "32A". If you find one with green cable, as in the above link, you're likely getting the exact same one we did.

Actually, if I was to buy it again, I'd possibly prefer one with a different arrangement of the resistor. I think that means that pressing the J1772 button would cause the charge session to stop, saving you from fishing out the key fob and pressing the open door button. See earlier posts for details, though I doubt you'd find enough detail in a listing to know what resistor arrangement you will get. But if you get the exact same one as mine, it will be the wrong one. I'm pretty sure that they will all work with the ZS EV; there just isn't much to get wrong.
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Re: Coulomb joins the MG ZS EV club

Post by kesselrig »

Thanks Coulomb. Are the DC fast chargers generally equipped with a CCS Combo 2 cable such that I don't need to bring my own?
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Re: Coulomb joins the MG ZS EV club

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kesselrig wrote: Fri, 02 Jul 2021, 17:08 Thanks Coulomb. Are the DC fast chargers generally equipped with a CCS Combo 2 cable such that I don't need to bring my own?
Yes. DC chargers always are tethered.

Some are quite special cables, e.g. with liquid cooling, and the connectors are very expensive. Some of them need to pass 200 amps or more, so you don't want more connections than necessary. So it's a good thing we don't have to bring our own!
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Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
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Re: Coulomb joins the MG ZS EV club

Post by navydiver »

Congratulations on the new car and thanks for the interesting information

The DC Chargers are great. Tried a new one yesterday Rectifier Technologies kindly provide a CCS charge I tried for an hour. I had a good chat with a few of the staff/managers as they arrived for work.

They have a few interesting products including a "DC Bi-Directional" 7 or 11kwh charger. Not yet approved for sale here. My hour added the expected 10 Kwh to my MG. My work Batteries and set up could be DC to DC. Not charging at work so that's just interesting for me.

The other larger CCS charging I have used are amazing with the 42Kwh battery fully charged in less than an hour. I wish there was a lot more of them.

I have to have a bigger look around this site as I see AEVA EV Vision e-conference 27 Nov 2020 by Nicholas from Rectifier Technologies on "A Case for Full DC charging" would be interesting to listen to
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Re: Coulomb joins the MG ZS EV club

Post by patti »

I have ordered a new MG and its on the boat! A big jump for me, calling it a tic off my bucket list, after driving my WA Electric Car Trial Ford Focus for the last 8 years. I'll get myself a bow too! I like that idea.
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Re: Coulomb joins the MG ZS EV club

Post by Nagaman »

patti wrote: Fri, 16 Jul 2021, 07:09 I have ordered a new MG and its on the boat! A big jump for me, calling it a tic off my bucket list, after driving my WA Electric Car Trial Ford Focus for the last 8 years. I'll get myself a bow too! I like that idea.
Nice work and excellent choice.
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