4048 Inverter as 3 Phase setup but utility is only single phase

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Brandt66
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4048 Inverter as 3 Phase setup but utility is only single phase

Post by Brandt66 » Thu, 27 Jun 2019, 16:54

Hello everybody ,

Maybe somebody can advise me this is possible to do or not.

I have in total 5 inverters in parallel mode in the moment and everything works fine.

As I get an electric car and the charger is 6.6Kw 3 Phase I have the idea to change the settings to 3 parallel on Phase 1 and each one inverter Phase 2 and 3

The problem is now that the Utility is single phase and so the Inverter for Phase 2 and 3 would have no input.

Somebody know it is possible to run Phase 2 and 3 in off grid mode or I will get error 84??

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coulomb
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Re: 4048 Inverter as 3 Phase setup but utility is only single phase

Post by coulomb » Thu, 27 Jun 2019, 20:00

Brandt66 wrote:
Thu, 27 Jun 2019, 16:54
The problem is now that the Utility is single phase and so the Inverter for Phase 2 and 3 would have no input.

Somebody know it is possible to run Phase 2 and 3 in off grid mode or I will get error 84??
You won't get fault code 84, at least according to my analysis, as that only happens with the output mode of PAR (parallel, not 3-phase).

But I can imagine it will be cranky about not having expected-phase mains for 2 of the inverters. And it certainly could not handle going to bypass mode, for example in the case of a weak battery (battery voltage falls below a certain level).

I was going to suggest that you could dedicate two inverters to the EV, not in 3-phase mode just SNG, if that's even possible. Alternatively, just parallel the inputs so they all get the same phase. But that means that the neutral cable will carry the full ~30 A of return current, instead of just the imbalance current. It's hard to guess whether it's designed for that or not, even if the neutral conductor in the charge cable has sufficient cross sectional area (at least 4 mm², preferably 5 mm²). You'd need to know that the neutral wire inside the EV and its various connections has sufficient current carrying capacity as well.

I suppose it's possible that the EV will allow two phases to drop off in the case where you run out of battery capacity and have to go to bypass (line) mode. You could configure the inverters that have AC-in connected to charge the battery in that situation, so that you can switch back to battery mode as soon as possible, and continue three phase charging the EV. The parallel guide seem to suggest that 3+1+1 inverters is a valid configuration, but be careful with the wiring and triple check it. It seems worth a try.

[ Edit: of course, if the grid isn't available and your battery is weak, you can't do that, but you probably don't want to charge your EV then either. ]

If that doesn't work, I'd say you will need to pay to get three phase connected, if that's possible.

[ Edit: "cable inside the EV" → "neutral wire inside the EV" ]
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

Brandt66
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Re: 4048 Inverter as 3 Phase setup but utility is only single phase

Post by Brandt66 » Fri, 28 Jun 2019, 16:30

Dear Coulomb,

Thanks for this detailed advise.


I am not real afraid for an empty battery never had less the 35% SOC so far.
I consider to charge the car only after lunch as my buttery is normal back to 100% at this time.
The AC Input of the Charger is in Star connection 85-265V 32 Max i could assume that parallel the 3 Phase could work so i will check the Neutral cable is big enough or not.
If not i will try the 3 Phase setup of the inverter.

Will make an update on this after the car is delivered.

Normal i like to put the Photo from the Charger but not find out how to do this here :? ..

Brandt66
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Re: 4048 Inverter as 3 Phase setup but utility is only single phase

Post by Brandt66 » Tue, 01 Oct 2019, 19:32

Here the Update promised,

after 3 month of waiting finally we get the MG ZS EV delivered and the charger was installed a week later but...
The charger is single phase not 3 phase as preciously promised.
The car charger has 6600 Watt and need 32 Ampere at 230 Volt.
My 4048 setup is 3x Parallel L1 Phase and each one 4048 for L2 and L3 it works fine for all loads in my House - the EV Charger and the 3 Phase Compressor. The 1500Ah Lithium Battery 15P-14S has no problem to charge the car during night but is 40% to 50% SOC after finish charging, however we did this for testing only normally we charge on the day without the need to use the battery.

Some Info to the Car can be found Here https://mgcars.com/en/mg-models/mgzsev/detail/overview

The range is given with 334km in ECO mode but we can reach around 300km only.
Charging time from 20% to full around 6h @ 6600 Watt

Picture from the Installation and Charging Test
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Re: 4048 Inverter as 3 Phase setup but utility is only single phase

Post by coulomb » Tue, 01 Oct 2019, 20:34

Brandt66 wrote:
Tue, 01 Oct 2019, 19:32
after 3 month of waiting finally we get the MG ZS EV delivered...
It looks like that's a British designed and styled car manufactured in China; is that correct?

As a point of interest, how does its purchase price compare with similarly sized petrol or diesel cars?
The charger is single phase not 3 phase as preciously promised.
The car charger has 6600 Watt and need 32 Ampere at 230 Volt.
So it's a type 2 charge port, but it only uses L1 and N? Presumably both of these conductors must be rated for 30 or 32 A.
Do you bother connecting L2 and L3 at the EVSE? I suppose one day a car may want to charge there, that uses all three phases.
Presumably you charge this on your L1 phase which has the three PIP-4048s in parallel?
My 4048 setup is 3x Parallel L1 Phase and each one 4048 for L2 and L3 it works fine for all loads in my House - the EV Charger and the 3 Phase Compressor.
Impressive.
The 1500Ah Lithium Battery 15P-14S has no problem to charge the car during night but...
Wow. That's really impressive!
Picture from the Installation and Charging Test
Thanks for fixing the image. That charge cord is impressively long, and the EVSE looks rather futuristic, like you'd expect on a space ship.

Is the car outside because the rest of the garage is full of inverters and batteries? ;)

Thanks for the update; fascinating.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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