PIP-5048MK inverter

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dRdoS7
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Re: PIP-5048MK inverter

Post by dRdoS7 »

Hi,
XtractorFan wrote: Mon, 06 Apr 2020, 14:49
I wouldn't call Watchpower a dead-end, nor say Win PCs aren't reliable.
I'm probably somewhat older than you and have used PC's for one thing and another since 1986 - back in days of DOS.
Modern hardware is definitely reliable enough, but since Win7 and the enforced 'nanny state' of Windows Update the 'always on' PC is a major problem.

Windows will re-start your PC to install updates.......

Then there is power consumption and cost compared to a $50 RasPi.
I am a recent convert to the RasPi and it works well with the right software.
Watchpower works, but logging and generating graphs is awkward and restricted to local viewing.
It also crashes frequently.
I have both a RasPi and an old PC (2006 vintage with Win10) connected to my PIP.
I VNC into both of them as and when needed, but via SolPipLog and EmonCms I can view from anywhere via a web browser and see what's going on.
No comparison really.....
'87 for me, when we got a PC at work.

I have thought of buying a Pi, but learning new sh1t doesn't appeal as much as it used too. Then again, I appear to have a lot of spare time now.

There're ways to prevent updates for Windows 10. My wife's PC has had no enforced update since early Win 10. Mine was blocked for a long time too, until I found the need to play Minecraft with my grand-kids. :lol:

I use Windows RDC, and also, occasionally, Teamviewer, which I used to access my PC from work (until they blocked access, and before I retired).

Not particularly worried about power, most stuff at our house runs off Solar/Battery. Although with the current state of my NiFes, that isn't long ATM. :( Still waiting for some replacements.

dRdoS7.
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Re: PIP-5048MK inverter

Post by XtractorFan »

I have thought of buying a Pi, but learning new sh1t doesn't appeal as much as it used too. Then again, I appear to have a lot of spare time now.
I know the feeling :?
Messing about trying to disable Windows update is possible (I've done it a few times) but it always seems to break something else and things stop working eventually...
I still use the PC in the barn (near to the PIP) to log an elderly Mastervolt PV grid-tie inverter - it also double as a 3rd tier backup for my NAS.

Sad that most 'solutions' these days are 99% software and very complex to do a simple task - and as a hardware engineer, I resorted to software only when absolutely necessary.
So retiring was a blessing, now a days, I find getting the impetus to extract your index finger is a big problem.

I cheated with the RasPi - Nuno (Solpiplog) was very supportive - he provided an image to flash to the SD card and it just worked.
The EmonCMS is more of a pain, the documentation is dire and mostly out dated, so you have to trawl the net to find why something doesn't work ;)
Like you I'm not really interested in logging my PV etc. - just trying to circumvent the PIP's cr@p firmware to get as much benefit from the kit as possible.

It's a relief when things work and I try to abide by the mantra - 'If it ain't broken, don't fix it
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Re: PIP-5048MK inverter

Post by dRdoS7 »

XtractorFan wrote: Tue, 07 Apr 2020, 16:13So retiring was a blessing, now a days, I find getting the impetus to extract your index finger is a big problem.
+1
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Re: PIP-5048MK inverter

Post by affer »

affer wrote: Mon, 30 Mar 2020, 01:26 my 5048mk is stucked in the read outs at the moment.

https://www.pvoutput.org/intraday.jsp?i ... t=20200329

Up and running again.. i needed to go into the settings mode on the display, after that serial output was normal :D
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Re: PIP-5048MK inverter

Post by dekin »

Hi guys
I need help in understanding how the mppt of this inverter behaves
I have a pip 5048mk connected to Pylontech batteries with setting 05 PLY activated
I have observed lately that when the sun is shining bright and consistent, the mppt clips the production below 2900w from a total pv of 4600w. See attached graph which happened today.
I disconnected the pv fuse from the inverter at about noon for some few seconds, and switched it back on, the pv watts increased to about 3300w for a minute and returns back to below 3000w. It was sunny and bright and not cloudy.
On other occasions when the weather is cloudy with sunshine, the mppt ramps up to 3700w easily between the hours of 11am -1pm.
Is this normal behavior for the mppt to clip solar production even when the batteries are not fully charged ? I was running a total load of about 1800w same time
PS the solar panels are 305 Canadian solar panels of 60 cells in 3s5p
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Re: PIP-5048MK inverter

Post by coulomb »

dekin wrote: Wed, 08 Apr 2020, 03:06 I have observed lately that when the sun is shining bright and consistent, the mppt clips the production below 2900w from a total pv of 4600w. ...
Is this normal behavior for the mppt to clip solar production even when the batteries are not fully charged ? I was running a total load of about 1800w same time
There seems to be a bug in the King firmware such that it ignores load power for the purposes of determining maximum PV power, i.e. it is ignoring what in other firmwares is called the Solar Balance setting (setting 31). At least when Battery Type (setting 05) is set to PYL.

It's possible that your cells are still balancing, so the maximum charge current may be being restricted while balancing is needed. Once balance has been achieved, you may find that the restriction is eased or even lifted completely. Charging the battery more slowly is much preferred over having the battery disconnect to save the cells.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
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Re: PIP-5048MK inverter

Post by dekin »

coulomb wrote: Wed, 08 Apr 2020, 10:52 There seems to be a bug in the King firmware such that it ignores load power for the purposes of determining maximum PV power, i.e. it is ignoring what in other firmwares is called the Solar Balance setting (setting 31). At least when Battery Type (setting 05) is set to PYL.

It's possible that your cells are still balancing, so the maximum charge current may be being restricted while balancing is needed. Once balance has been achieved, you may find that the restriction is eased or even lifted completely. Charging the battery more slowly is much preferred over having the battery disconnect to save the cells.
Surely if this is a bug then its a nasty one. I forgot to add that during this period I observed the clipping, I added a 2000w load from a 3L water heater kettle to bring the total load to 3800w and the batteries started discharging with about -27A. the mppt kept its production at 2900w even with the sun shining bright and consistent. The batteries were at 70% charged at this time so I don't think cell balancing is occurring at this point. from my observation, cell balancing usually begins at 89% charged for the Pylontech batteries.
I will change setting 05 to USE today and see if this clipping occur.
there is no setting 31 on my King
Thanks
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Re: PIP-5048MK inverter

Post by gyrex »

Hi guys, I'm hoping someone on here might be able to help me...

I'm looking to add a 16s 280Ah LiFePO4 battery to my existing solar system which is 21kW panels connected to a Fronius Symo 20kW 3-phase inverter. Someone recommended I take a look at the PIP-5048MK inverter/charger and add the battery into the system as an AC coupled unit. I have a couple of questions:

1. Is it possible to connect 3 of these inverters in parallel and load balance across the 3 phases?
2. Is it possible to wire this up so that the PIP-5048MK only charges using power from my existing Fronius inverter and not the grid?

Many thanks for any advice!
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Re: PIP-5048MK inverter

Post by MJS-1 »

dekin wrote: Wed, 08 Apr 2020, 03:06 Hi guys
I need help in understanding how the mppt of this inverter behaves
I have a pip 5048mk connected to Pylontech batteries with setting 05 PLY activated
I was struggling with a similar setup: 2xUS3000, AXPERT King 5K, 6x330W solar panels, and solpiplog / EMONCMS on Raspberry PI4 for monitoring. Firmware U1=71.80 (issue is the same with 71.86), PYL option in program # 5.

The inverter limits the maximum charge current depending on the SOC of the batteries. When the battery SOC is below 90% the max charge current is 70A. If SOC is equal or higher than 90% it is 20A. If SOC is 100% it is 10A. The BMS suggests max current (confirmed by PYLONTECH) and the inverter sets it in Program #02 accordingly. In my case this meant that although there should have been plenty of solar power available the maximum production was limited. This lead to the batteries being drained instead of PV power ramped up.

I sent this information to the support organization of my unit - no response so I tried to work it out myself. In other AXPERT inverters there is a flag that when set to “0” the maximum solar current is set to the maximum battery charge current. If set to “1” the max. solar current is set to #02 plus the load current. The PIP-5048MK has no menu to set this parameter. SOLPIPLOG has a debug window where you can send commands to the inverter. If you send QPIRI a bunch of values are returned. Value 26 is "PV power Balance" in my case this was 0 meaning PV input max current will be the max charged current. This needs to be set to 1 meaning PV input max power will be the sum of the max charged power and loads power. I managed to do this with PSPB1<cr>
Setting Solar power balance
Computer: PSPB<n><CRC><cr>
Device: (ACK<CRC><cr> if device accepts this command, otherwise, responds (NAK<CRC><cr>
0: PV input max current will be the max charged current;
1: PV input max power will be the sum of the max charged power and loads power
This solved this problem for me.

I still have a problem with PV power dropping to zero that I will describe later.
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Re: PIP-5048MK inverter

Post by coulomb »

MJS-1 wrote: Mon, 13 Apr 2020, 20:01 no response so I tried to work it out myself. ...
I managed to do this with PSPB1<cr>
Brilliant!

It sounds like the lack of setting 31 via the settings menu was an oversight then... but then why does it default to disabled? [ Edit: see below ]
This solved this problem for me.
I guess that's what counts. Can you also change the setting via Watchpower? That might be easier for most owners.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
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Re: PIP-5048MK inverter

Post by XtractorFan »

Yes, Watchpower has a button for solar power balance, guess it's of use for something at least.....
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Re: PIP-5048MK inverter

Post by MJS-1 »

coulomb wrote: Mon, 13 Apr 2020, 20:52 but then why does it default to disabled?
I am not sure if it defaults to 0 in all machines. If other PIP-5048MK users could check?

The other day I saw a "1" in the PV power balance https://www.photovoltaikforum.com/core/ ... board-png/ but this was not a 5kW machine https://www.photovoltaikforum.com/core/ ... board-png/

I can't run watchpower on my Raspi PI4. The android app does not allow to send this command. But if one runs solpiplog it's a piece of cake. Not sure if ICC does allow commands to be sent.
AXPERT KING 5K, U1=71.80, U2=02.00 U3=00.21 U4=01.10
2 x Pylontech US3000, 8 x JA 335W
Solpiplog 2.4.0 on Pi 4, emoncms local
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Re: PIP-5048MK inverter

Post by coulomb »

MJS-1 wrote: Mon, 13 Apr 2020, 21:23 I am not sure if it defaults to 0 in all machines.
I just checked the MK/King firmware version 71.86. In fact, it defaults to enabled, in the sense that if you revert to factory defaults (e.g. with the PF command), it would be enabled.

Strange then that it seems to come from the factory disabled, or somehow ends up disabled.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
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Re: PIP-5048MK inverter

Post by Mank1234 »

After enabling it, does it maintain this state going forward or you have to be doing this on a regular basis.
MJS-1 wrote: Mon, 13 Apr 2020, 20:01
dekin wrote: Wed, 08 Apr 2020, 03:06 Hi guys
I need help in understanding how the mppt of this inverter behaves
I have a pip 5048mk connected to Pylontech batteries with setting 05 PLY activated
I was struggling with a similar setup: 2xUS3000, AXPERT King 5K, 6x330W solar panels, and solpiplog / EMONCMS on Raspberry PI4 for monitoring. Firmware U1=71.80 (issue is the same with 71.86), PYL option in program # 5.

The inverter limits the maximum charge current depending on the SOC of the batteries. When the battery SOC is below 90% the max charge current is 70A. If SOC is equal or higher than 90% it is 20A. If SOC is 100% it is 10A. The BMS suggests max current (confirmed by PYLONTECH) and the inverter sets it in Program #02 accordingly. In my case this meant that although there should have been plenty of solar power available the maximum production was limited. This lead to the batteries being drained instead of PV power ramped up.

I sent this information to the support organization of my unit - no response so I tried to work it out myself. In other AXPERT inverters there is a flag that when set to “0” the maximum solar current is set to the maximum battery charge current. If set to “1” the max. solar current is set to #02 plus the load current. The PIP-5048MK has no menu to set this parameter. SOLPIPLOG has a debug window where you can send commands to the inverter. If you send QPIRI a bunch of values are returned. Value 26 is "PV power Balance" in my case this was 0 meaning PV input max current will be the max charged current. This needs to be set to 1 meaning PV input max power will be the sum of the max charged power and loads power. I managed to do this with PSPB1<cr>
Setting Solar power balance
Computer: PSPB<n><CRC><cr>
Device: (ACK<CRC><cr> if device accepts this command, otherwise, responds (NAK<CRC><cr>
0: PV input max current will be the max charged current;
1: PV input max power will be the sum of the max charged power and loads power
This solved this problem for me.

I still have a problem with PV power dropping to zero that I will describe later.
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Re: PIP-5048MK inverter

Post by MJS-1 »

i only had to do this once but I have not restarted the inverter since then so i don't know if it would set it back to 0.
AXPERT KING 5K, U1=71.80, U2=02.00 U3=00.21 U4=01.10
2 x Pylontech US3000, 8 x JA 335W
Solpiplog 2.4.0 on Pi 4, emoncms local
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Re: PIP-5048MK inverter

Post by XtractorFan »

Cheers coulomb
I just checked the MK/King firmware version 71.86. In fact, it defaults to enabled, in the sense that if you revert to factory defaults (e.g. with the PF command), it would be enabled.
Mine must have been set when I updated to v71.86 firmware.
I don't remember ever setting this using Watchpower - as I seldom use that software now.
I have used the Solpiplog debug function to set/clear various things, but not the PSPB command.
It's not an issue for me as I only have a puny ~800W PV array - it never max's out.
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Re: PIP-5048MK inverter

Post by coulomb »

Mank1234 wrote: Mon, 13 Apr 2020, 22:34 After enabling it, does it maintain this state going forward or you have to be doing this on a regular basis.
Solar power balance is a setting (despite setting 31 not appearing on the LCD menu) and is saved to EEPROM. So it will be preserved through power downs.

Updating to new firmware occasionally seems to mess with settings. The manufacturer instructions say to reset to factory defaults after each firmware update, but most users, myself included, find this unnecessary and don't bother. I do however check the settings on the LC Display after an update. This is the first setting that is missing from the menu, so maybe getting into the habit of resetting to factory defaults after a firmware update is a good idea.

Edit: Or maybe defaults are only needed after certain pairs of updates, for example 71.70 to 71.86, when the layout of EEPROM changes. (This is a guessed example, not yet verified as needing factory defaults). I'll try and pay more attention to EEPROM layout in future to perhaps warn updaters of this need.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
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Re: PIP-5048MK inverter

Post by coulomb »

XtractorFan wrote: Tue, 14 Apr 2020, 02:48 Mine must have been set when I updated to v71.86 firmware.
Interesting. @XtractorFan: do you happen to remember what you updated from? @MJS-1: can you recall your original version too?

I've just checked, and the solar power balance setting is at the same address in MK/King firmware versions 71.80 and 71.86, so if your machine came from the factory with 71.80, then it seems to me that it should not have changed. I don't have 71.70 or any earlier MK/King firmware to check. My guess is that this happened between 71.70 and 71.80, and no one noticed at the time.

I wonder if they even had the functionality for setting 31 (i.e. the ability to tell the solar charge controller to produce power up to the total of what the battery charging needs plus what the load needs) before about 71.80. After all, MK/Ling models behave rather differently with respect to power flow. Maybe they realised the need, added the functionality code, but forgot to add setting 31 to the LCD configuration menu.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
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Re: PIP-5048MK inverter

Post by dekin »

MJS-1 wrote: Mon, 13 Apr 2020, 20:01

I was struggling with a similar setup: 2xUS3000, AXPERT King 5K, 6x330W solar panels, and solpiplog / EMONCMS on Raspberry PI4 for monitoring. Firmware U1=71.80 (issue is the same with 71.86), PYL option in program # 5.

The inverter limits the maximum charge current depending on the SOC of the batteries. When the battery SOC is below 90% the max charge current is 70A. If SOC is equal or higher than 90% it is 20A. If SOC is 100% it is 10A. The BMS suggests max current (confirmed by PYLONTECH) and the inverter sets it in Program #02 accordingly. In my case this meant that although there should have been plenty of solar power available the maximum production was limited. This lead to the batteries being drained instead of PV power ramped up.

I sent this information to the support organization of my unit - no response so I tried to work it out myself. In other AXPERT inverters there is a flag that when set to “0” the maximum solar current is set to the maximum battery charge current. If set to “1” the max. solar current is set to #02 plus the load current. The PIP-5048MK has no menu to set this parameter. SOLPIPLOG has a debug window where you can send commands to the inverter. If you send QPIRI a bunch of values are returned. Value 26 is "PV power Balance" in my case this was 0 meaning PV input max current will be the max charged current. This needs to be set to 1 meaning PV input max power will be the sum of the max charged power and loads power. I managed to do this with PSPB1<cr>
Setting Solar power balance
Computer: PSPB<n><CRC><cr>
Device: (ACK<CRC><cr> if device accepts this command, otherwise, responds (NAK<CRC><cr>
0: PV input max current will be the max charged current;
1: PV input max power will be the sum of the max charged power and loads power
This solved this problem for me.

I still have a problem with PV power dropping to zero that I will describe later.
Hi MJS-1
thanks for your detailed response on how you were able to resolve your solar PV charge issue on the King
I use the ICC software which does not have the functionality of the debug window as solpiplog. interestingly I downloaded solpiplog form GitHub transferred it to the ICC pi and was able to run both side by side.
I observed that the PV power balance is already set to 1 from the QPIRI log table so I am guessing that's the correct setting?
However, I have since changed setting 05 from PLY to USE since I first noticed and reported the issue here and my total PV watts have been hitting 3.6kw from a 4.6kw array. so I wouldn't say for sure if this particular setting makes the crippling go away until I default back to PLY setting and observe again.
My axpert king inverter was purchased with 71.80 firmware which I upgraded to 71.86

Thanks once again
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Re: PIP-5048MK inverter

Post by XtractorFan »

@coulomb I bitched about it here: https://forums.aeva.asn.au/viewtopic.php?p=76514#p76514
Originally my PIP was shipped with 71.50, the new control board came with 71.60 and the new version from MppSolar 'support' was 71.86 ;)
I must admit to struggle understanding what this actually does - just allow the PV power to be used for battery charge (=0) or battery charge+load (=1) ?
There is no mention of this in the latest PIP User Manual - you have to refer (as @MJS-1 did) to the communication command document to see a mention.
Even then you have to decipher the pigeon english :?
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Re: PIP-5048MK inverter

Post by XtractorFan »

I have seen mentions on this forum of a v71.92 - but can't remember from who......
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Re: PIP-5048MK inverter

Post by XtractorFan »

Ah, it was v71.90 https://forums.aeva.asn.au/viewtopic.php?p=78205#p78205
By @jannie
Haven't seen anyone mention they had the update files though.....
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Re: PIP-5048MK inverter

Post by Mank1234 »

In line mode, if someone touch one of the output line of PIP5048MK will the person receive an electric shock?
Can current flow to earth since the inverter output is isolated from the input in line mode?

If the answer to above is No, does one still need to use an RCD?
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Re: PIP-5048MK inverter

Post by Mank1234 »

Mank1234 wrote: Wed, 15 Apr 2020, 04:12 In line mode, if someone touch one of the output line of PIP5048MK will the person receive an electric shock?
Can current flow to earth since the inverter output is isolated from the input in line mode?

If the answer to above is No, does one still need to use an RCD?
This post, thanks to Gnome answers this question:
powerforum.co.za/topic/2240-axpert-king-5kw/

Output is not connected in any way to input except that output neutral is connected to input ground.
That means touching neutral is same as ground - no shock.
Touching live will however result in shock hence the need for RCCD.
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Re: PIP-5048MK inverter

Post by coulomb »

Mank1234 wrote: Wed, 15 Apr 2020, 04:12 In line mode, if someone touch one of the output line of PIP5048MK will the person receive an electric shock?

Definitely.
Can current flow to earth since the inverter output is isolated from the input in line mode?
While the output is not connected directly to the input in line (double conversion) mode, it is directly connected when in bypass mode (e.g. if the inverter is overloaded, or is in Eco mode). In all these modes, the output live is not isolated from the AC-in live. The only isolating transformer is between the battery and the DC bus. That means that touching the battery terminals is safe.

Finally, in battery mode, a 5kW inverter has about 200 times the power needed to kill a human. [ Edit: and about 2000 times the power needed to cause a shock. ] So regardless of isolation, the output of any inverter is lethal. An RCD is required.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
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