PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by dRdoS7 »

Hi,
data wrote: Tue, 31 Mar 2020, 07:08 I just noticed a - what I think - weird bug on the Pip-5048GK ( VM III), most likely also present on the 5048MK (aka KING):

At the moment, there are two pylontech us2000b batteries attached to the inverter. Apparently, these report the max. discharge to the inverter.
In this case it is 50A (25A per module). Today, I noticed that the inverter switched to Line-Mode when power usage increased above 2.5kW. (50V * 50A)
So far so good.

But the inverter remains in Line Mode, even if the batteries are charged. Using the App, I had to switch to utility charging for a few seconds and
then back to solar only in order to get back to SBU mode. In the past we were experiencing the same issue on a 5048MK but did not realize it was
most likely also due to a power draw above the limit communicated by the batteries.

Anybody else noticed this behavior?
My PIP5048MG did similar a couple of days ago. It had a peak 6.0KW load while running off solar/batteries, and went to Line Mode, but it didn't go back to Battery Mode after the load dropped. No fault indication on the local panel. I did get an email. I had to switch it off, and back on.
[92931805101340] [2020-03-30 17:11:15] occur Over load alarm
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by data »

Thank you for your reply. How did you get that email? What software are you using??

Acutally, it happend again late tonight and this time I waited what happens. After a couple of hours, it switched back to battery this morning.
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by coulomb »

dRdoS7 wrote: Wed, 01 Apr 2020, 17:18 My PIP5048MG did similar a couple of days ago. It had a peak 6.0KW load while running off solar/batteries, and went to Line Mode, but it didn't go back to Battery Mode after the load dropped. No fault indication on the local panel.
Did you wait 10 minutes? Unpatched firmware forces the inverter to stay in line/bypass mode once it gets there for a minimum of 10 minutes (2 minutes for patched firmware).
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by coulomb »

data wrote: Wed, 01 Apr 2020, 18:21 After a couple of hours, it switched back to battery this morning.
The battery voltage has to exceed the back-to-battery voltage setting (setting 13) before the inverter can switch back to battery mode. But even when that condition is satisfied, there is a minimum stay of 10 minutes in line/bypass mode.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by data »

> The battery voltage has to exceed the back-to-battery voltage setting (setting 13) before the inverter can switch back to battery mode.
> But even when that condition is satisfied, there is a minimum stay of 10 minutes in line/bypass mode.

The battery was at 52% SoC and voltage was at 49.1V then and dropped to 48.2V when the water cooker was turned on.

Which settings do you suggest for pylontech batteries?
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by coulomb »

data wrote: Wed, 01 Apr 2020, 21:01 The battery was at 52% SoC and voltage was at 49.1V then and dropped to 48.2V when the water cooker was turned on.
Yes, factory firmware suffers from a lack of battery voltage load compensation (no KettleKomp™).
Which settings do you suggest for pylontech batteries?
I don't use a Pylontech, but this question comes up so much I've prepared this graphic, all theoretical.

PylonTech settings.png
PylonTech settings.png (108.35 KiB) Viewed 2538 times
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
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160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by dRdoS7 »

Hi,
data wrote: Wed, 01 Apr 2020, 18:21 Thank you for your reply. How did you get that email? What software are you using??
I use the supplied software, Watchpower.
coulomb wrote: Wed, 01 Apr 2020, 19:24
dRdoS7 wrote: Wed, 01 Apr 2020, 17:18 My PIP5048MG did similar a couple of days ago. It had a peak 6.0KW load while running off solar/batteries, and went to Line Mode, but it didn't go back to Battery Mode after the load dropped. No fault indication on the local panel.
Did you wait 10 minutes? Unpatched firmware forces the inverter to stay in line/bypass mode once it gets there for a minimum of 10 minutes (2 minutes for patched firmware).
No, when I received the email, I went to the garage to check. I saw it was in bypass, but no longer had a high load, so I switched it off & on. If it happens again, I'll wait. I had a look in the manual, but there was no mention of any time for a return. You'd think something like that would warrant a mention.

Thanks,

dRdoS7.
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by ochyst »

Hello,
I have EASUN - Isolar SM II 5KW 48VDC with 450VDC MPPT and there error 90 occured. There no information about error 90 at manuals. Can anybody help me?

Running on 71.70 firmware, inverter was in parallel configuration 1 phase of 3 phases. Single mode configuration have an error 90 too.
Last edited by ochyst on Mon, 27 Apr 2020, 14:04, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by coulomb »

ochyst wrote: Mon, 20 Apr 2020, 03:31 I have EASUN - Isolar SM II 5KW 48VDC with 450VDC MPPT and there error 90 occured. There no information about error 90 at manuals. Can anybody help me?
That's not supposed to happen with genuine (non-clone) models. Yet it seems to happen occasionally. There is an easy way to check that an error 90 is or is not on the way (without having to wait 60 days). They should be doing this check at the factory.

I suppose it's possible that EASun is a clone manufacturer, who have perfected the label (it looks completely genuine to me).

I happen to have a solution for this, prepared for another owner. Watch for a private message. [ Edit: PM sent. ]
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by coulomb »

Lightly patched firmware version 71.80a for 5 kW PIP-5048MG, Axpert MKS II 5K-48 etc.

This is a beta version of the patched firmware version 71.80a, based on factory firmware version 71.80 for PIP-5048MG, Axpert MKS II 5K-48, and equivalents. It is not to be confused with factory firmware version 71.80 for PIP-5048MK and Axpert King. The only changes are that the two premature float bugs are fixed, and the version number on the LC Display is different. If I did everything right, the main firmware version number should display as follows:

LCD iiU1 71 80A.jpg
LCD iiU1 71 80A.jpg (42.18 KiB) Viewed 2311 times
The two highlighted segments are supposed to indicate that this is the PIP-5048MG / Axpert MKS II firmware, as opposed to the PIP-5048MK / Axpert King firmware with the same version number. Hopefuly this reduces confusion, rather than adding to it.

I do not own this inverter-charger model, so this firmware has not been tested apart from disassembling the patches. However, I did a similar patch to version 71.71, and this worked well (thanks, @ochyst).

Factory firmware 71.80 has the same paralleling ID (118) as 71.70, so they should not complain about incompatible firmwares if paralleled. However, 71.80 does have 4 new CAN commands, all related to the new BMS functionality, so strictly speaking they should be regarded as incompatible. In other words, if you have paralleled and/or three phase machines, if you update one to 71.80 or 71.80a, it's a good idea to update all the others as well.

There is no LFP/non-LFP flavour for this lightly patched firmware.

Firmware upload instructions (ignore the files there; use the zip file below).

As always, use at your own risk.

Zip file:
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by gazzaman2k »

coulomb wrote: Tue, 21 Apr 2020, 20:33 Lightly patched firmware version 71.80a for 5 kW PIP-5048MG, Axpert MKS II 5K-48 etc.

This is a beta version of the patched firmware version 71.80a, based on factory firmware version 71.80 for PIP-5048MG, Axpert MKS II 5K-48, and equivalents. It is not to be confused with factory firmware version 71.80 for PIP-5048MK and Axpert King. The only changes are that the two premature float bugs are fixed, and the version number on the LC Display is different. If I did everything right, the main firmware version number should display as follows:


LCD iiU1 71 80A.jpg

The two highlighted segments are supposed to indicate that this is the PIP-5048MG / Axpert MKS II firmware, as opposed to the PIP-5048MK / Axpert King firmware with the same version number. Hopefuly this reduces confusion, rather than adding to it.

I do not own this inverter-charger model, so this firmware has not been tested apart from disassembling the patches. However, I did a similar patch to version 71.71, and this worked well (thanks, @ochyst).

Factory firmware 71.80 has the same paralleling ID (118) as 71.70, so they should not complain about incompatible firmwares if paralleled. However, 71.80 does have 4 new CAN commands, all related to the new BMS functionality, so strictly speaking they should be regarded as incompatible. In other words, if you have paralleled and/or three phase machines, if you update one to 71.80 or 71.80a, it's a good idea to update all the others as well.

There is no LFP/non-LFP flavour for this lightly patched firmware.

Firmware upload instructions (ignore the files there; use the zip file below).

As always, use at your own risk.

Zip file: 71.80a patched firmware for Axpert MKS II or PIP-5048MG.zip
uploaded this firmware to both of the 5048mg models and works fine so far thankyou
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by gazzaman2k »

one thing i have noticed is that going from 71-71 to 71-80 it now takes more starter voltage to get the solar working....

i have one inverter with 7 250w panels and one with 4 250w pannels, since update the one with 4 panels now doesnt start to charge, the voltage goes up then down to 0 then back up and down, so i now put 5 panels on and now it charges the battery again.

is there any changelog of what the differences are in the firmwares?

thanks
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by coulomb »

gazzaman2k wrote: Mon, 27 Apr 2020, 03:12 is there any changelog of what the differences are in the firmwares?
Alas no, it seems that would be too professional for them. I mention a new feature I found in it, though it might not be finsished yet, in this post on the Power Forum. Details of the new BMS command are on the next page.
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by coulomb »

gazzaman2k wrote: Mon, 27 Apr 2020, 03:12 one thing i have noticed is that going from 71-71 to 71-80 it now takes more starter voltage to get the solar working....
Interesting. I've not found any differences (so far) in the way that PV is handled.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by bubu.liviu »

hello ragazi I am new in the forum I hope not to disturb anyone, I or a problem or a pip-ge series inverter with a voltage from the photovoltaic panels 450v, I explain to you that I use this inverter not for solar panels but for a 3.5kw wind from the windspot brand, for wind or an automatic braking system that practically does not make it exceed 400v if it exceeds 400v the braking system enters and brings it back to 300v, my problem and the inverter the renger mppt starts working from 120v to 450v, or the possibility to modify the renger mppt instead of starting from 120v which starts at 220v x which the wind turbine is rewound to 220v so if the inverter intervenes at 120v practically the wind does not go in rotation and keeps it braked. what interests me and to change the renger of the inverter to start working from 200v or 230v. this possibility exists, thank you in advance thank you all
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by coulomb »

bubu.liviu wrote: Sat, 02 May 2020, 05:03 what interests me and to change the renger of the inverter to start working from 200v or 230v. this possibility exists, thank you in advance thank you all
I know next to nothing about wind turbines and their electronics, except that it seems to be generally accepted that you can't use a solar charge controller for them.

If I understand correctly, you'd like to try modifying the PIP-5048GE firmware such that it draws no power from its PV input until the input reaches 200 or 230 VDC? I'm pretty sure that this is not practical.

I had a quick search for Windspot controllers, and the manual I downloaded seemed to indicate that there was a 48 VDC model, and a 220 and/or 110 VAC model. The latter are for connecting directly to the grid; if they don't see the grid, they presumably won't connect and won't product power. This will also be single phase power, so it won't rectify nearly as well as 3-phase power.

Are you intending to ignore the included inverter? Or are there models that don't have an inverter? But still does the electric braking and connecting to the dummy load when needed?
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
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160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by bubu.liviu »

I can not upload photos to see how it did, practically ariva dala turbine 3 phases ientra in the controler that transforms into a current belt, wuesti controler sends to the inverter inverter continues up to a maximum of 400v if the current exceeds 400v the controler download nele rezistenze braking, now working for 2 months the only problem is that the inverter brakes it at 120v, so it is not possible to raise the mppt ranger to 220v
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by bubu.liviu »

how do you upload photos, i can't
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by bubu.liviu »

wind controler and inverter
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by coulomb »

bubu.liviu wrote: Sat, 02 May 2020, 15:09 now working for 2 months the only problem is that the inverter brakes it at 120v, so it is not possible to raise the mppt ranger to 220v
I can't find any data on that controller. Is the problem that the inverter, in trying to find the maximum power point, drags the wind controller's output below 220 V and this represents an overload? And you believe that if it didn't drag the input below 220 V, this would solve the problem?

There are two EEPROM settings, PVVoltLowLoss and PVMPPTLowLoss, that are unfortunately not accessible by commands (this is in Axpert MKS II main firmware version 71.80). The default values for those could be changed with in a patched firmware. But I'm not convinced that this will work.

Is that controller really designed to feed a PV inverter with MPPT?

There doesn't seem to be much more than a 3-phase rectifier in there, apart from two transistors (Q3, Q5) to turn on the dump load. I would imagine that the dump load would only turn on when the bus voltage raised too high. So I don't understand how it turns on at low output voltages. Ah, perhaps the turbine stalls at low speeds, but this would not be because the electric brake is turning on.

What is your inverter-charger's main firmware (U1) version?
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by paulvk »

I found the manual by searching GCB-20K and it is just a 3 phase rectifier with output to dump load
dip switch setting on GCB-20K
User can regulate diversion voltage by switching unit U1.
Switch U1 Mode Voltage (Vdc)
1, 2 OFF VON=400, VOFF=300
1 ON, 2 OFF VON=500, VOFF=400
1 OFF, 2 ON VON=500, VOFF=400
1, 2 ON VON=600, VOFF=500

I think it set to 1, 2 ON
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by bubu.liviu »

yes the three-phase bridge does not let the wind exceed 400v so it does not burn the inverter, the version and 2045 of the inverter. if I could invert the starting the mppt ranger at 220v you will have solved the problem
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by bubu.liviu »

the inverter is the same as that of the MppSolar PIP-GE series and the same changes only the brand
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by DanielArdelian »

Looking at MPP Solar's list of products on their website, it seems the GK series are the only ones having the SOLAR + UTILITY COMBINE OUTPUT feature.

https://www.mppsolar.com/v3/pip-gk-series/

Does anyone know how this is implemented?
Is it a double AC -> DC -> AC conversion?
Or is it like an "On Grid" inverter: AC-Out is directly connected to AC-In, and the inverter generates slightly higher AC voltage to inject AC power and also tries to keep the AC-In current as low as possible (depending on how much solar power is available)?

Thanks in advance,
Daniel.

PS: I'm an electrical engineer, electronics as a hobby, I have no problems with technical terms.
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by coulomb »

DanielArdelian wrote: Mon, 04 May 2020, 22:10 Looking at MPP Solar's list of products on their website, it seems the GK series are the only ones having the SOLAR + UTILITY COMBINE OUTPUT feature.
https://www.mppsolar.com/v3/pip-gk-series/
Interesting. I believe that's fairly new. [ Edit: actually, it seems it's been there for years, possibly since the VM IIIs were first sold. ] The GE and MG series have quietly supported blending of solar and utility power for a long time. I wonder if they'll extend this feature to other models, presumably still the high voltage SCC models.
Does anyone know how this is implemented?
Is it a double AC -> DC -> AC conversion?
No, only the MK series (Axpert Kings) have double conversion. They come with a 145 V max SCC.
Or is it like an "On Grid" inverter: AC-Out is directly connected to AC-In, and the inverter generates slightly higher AC voltage to inject AC power and also tries to keep the AC-In current as low as possible (depending on how much solar power is available)?
Pretty much, as far as I can tell.

That makes them "even more illegal" for use in Australia and I assume most other countries, unless they go to the trouble and expense of certifying them in every country that they sell them in. But then they'd need insulation monitoring as well, which they seem to steadfastly resist, especially on the "value models" such as the GK. Maybe they aim for near zero export from the inverter, and claim that it's not a grid interactive inverter, and therefore doesn't need certification.

[ Edit: "zero export" → "near zero export from the inverter". ]
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
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