PIP-5048GE/GK/MG/MGX inverters (with unsafe SCC)

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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by Revlac »

Ok I will see if I can help with this 1 second (self preservation) pause thing.
Previously I posted that my submersible fish tank pump was shorting out causing the inverter to stop output for 1 second and then go again, found the pump had burned out, replaced it and no problem since.
This inverter is an older 2015 pip4048HS with no grid, generator or solar connected to it, so I think its not limited to any particular model.

The pump was a Gardenline 50W submersible (years of good service), might seem like useless information BUT, I'm fairly sure it had some sort of overheat protection or more likely a built in circuit breaker, now if a shot stopped the inverter for a moment, upon running again the short was not present and no load on the inverter, possibly the circuit breaker tripped within that moment.....(might be a clue here).

I have no idea how fast the inverter short circuit protection is If it exists, not keen to short it just to see.
On the inverter main board, I would think that from the CT to the output is monitored, overload etc, just before the CT, any problem on the gate drive or IGBT would likely go bang unless there is something in there I don't know about.

This inverter and the other 5048 (running the house) have both worked well mounted outside in a steel box with an ambient temp of 48c running aircons never mist a beat, air temp measured (basic multi-meter probe) at the fan outlet was over 60c .

Over the years, the inverter on the house, I have noticed something with the large fridge and the large 510ltr deep freezer, the freezer will quite often startup just after the fridge starts (just within the time the relay takes to close), this happens all to often to often to be a coincidence.

Makes me wonder if some appliance randomly start at the same time and or one of the somewhere throws an internal breaker after a short perhaps.
I have had stalled 1000w water pumps and drill press No problem, and start 2400w power tools and 1600w pressure cleaners with no stops or overload.

Hope this helps narrow down some of the possibilities.

I think the problem can only be from the CT onward out of the inverter to the appliance, the rest of the inverter seem fine, Could be a voltage spike from some appliance triggering a MOV on the board or somewhere.

Hope this helps narrow down some of the possibilities.
Haven't had any other thoughts yet.
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by rthorntn »

Thanks @Revlac I do recall the pump story, are you aware of any logging devices that can record shorts?
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by Revlac »

I'm not aware of any monitoring software or tool, one possibility (I haven't tried this) is to have some sort of current sensor around the active from the inverter and read that with a SCOPE that can record something abnormal (could take a long time), if nothing is found their then that might point to the inverters output stage.
Unless someone has a much better Idea or way to do this, it would be one step closer to finding where the problem might be.

I do hope we can get to the bottom of this, I can imagine its most annoying.
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by gazzaman2k »

rthorntn wrote: Thu, 24 Dec 2020, 07:06
gazzaman2k wrote: Thu, 24 Dec 2020, 06:41
i have 2 x 5048mg v71.80a software ive had this 1 second black out 3 times in about 8 months of owning these, my smart home bulbs light up and the oven clock resets which gives me the indication of what time the inverters dropped power.

its completely random, had it happen at 4am, 5pm and 2pm
There is another!

If this happens at 4am, I'm done for, it will wake the whole family up, we have 3 smart lights in the main bedroom!

I have had five outages in the last 6 weeks, the latest one was for more like 10 seconds.

Did you put any thought into trying to figure out the cause?

I'm definitely installing a Latronics AC Transfer Switch (ACTS40 modded for 60A), already bought and paid for it but I would love to figure out what causes this...

Thinking out loud, I wonder if it's some kind of silent watchdog doovalacky issue maybe with the paralleling code crapping itself...
it also done it again today 11.32am, i was just playing around with a raspberry pi and i heard my ups click on upstairs and start beeping, next i hear the compressor in my fridge click on and then all my lights turned on as the inverters powered up again, annoying but doesnt really bother me its like it looses power for 1second, my logging devices cant pick it up as the inverters reboot when it happens so they dont actually log anything.

ill run these til they die then i may spend the big bucks and get a victron inverter

my system isnt a small setup, its 14s 13p nissan leaf gen1 cells, with victron bmv battery monitor, 2 x 5048mg in parallel and DIY BMS v4 leaf edition, each inverter has grid in for charging and each inverter has 2kw of panels attached.

they run the house completely off the grid, but only require grid to charge at night time when electric is cheaper, i have around 75% life in the batteries so roughly 32kWh of storable energy which gets me nearly 2 days of use in my house (charges up every other day off the grid) when its summer i can usually get like 3-4days per charge due to the sunlight, but UK is crap wather most time so not alot of sun

they work great the 99.9% of time only downfall is this 1second power blip

what firmware are you running on yours? i have the 71.80a modded version from here
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by rthorntn »

Thanks @gazzaman2k I'm just on the standard firmware right now, 71.80, are you sure your inverters are actually restarting, I have the ICC monitoring software on a Pi protected by a UPS and the inverters *seem* to stay up (I've never eyeballed the inverter LCD when this actually happens), can these inverters even do a full power-cycle in such a short amount of time?

Thanks @Revlac!
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by Revlac »

A full restart takes a bit longer.
My heatgun caused, I think it was Error 08,(bus voltage too high) ....the relay cuts out for 10 or so seconds, then reconnects, no restart.
With the 1 second pause I don't remember hearing a relay click.

One other possibility is a MOV that Maybe underrated or faulty, getting triggered, Have seen some green and some orange not sure of there values or if the correct ones are in, Slim chance of this I think, but could be possible.

Apart from that I'm all out of ideas.
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by rthorntn »

Thanks @Revlac!

I've never seen an error, in the dozen or so times I've had an outage, I suspect the error "subsystem" is junk, @coulomb do you have any idea from the firmware of how the fault logging works?

I think there are a few "quirks" with these inverters and a handful of reasonably rare conditions cause these really short outages, the fact that I've never had an outage in the middle of the night has me thinking that @gazzaman2k's issue might be different, I mean it only happens between 0700 and 2000, if it was truly a random issue...
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by rthorntn »

I might just have the Lantronics ATS installed and be done with it, when it comes time to replace the inverters I will put better ones in, more and more I think I got what I paid for.

I personally wouldn't recommend people run their entire "suburban" house on these. They might be designed for a cabin on the woods or massive solar farms where little glitches go unnoticed...
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by rthorntn »

Revlac wrote: Sun, 27 Dec 2020, 11:11 ....the relay cuts out for 10 or so seconds, then reconnects, no restart. With the 1 second pause I don't remember hearing a relay click.
Maybe a clue right there though, it clearly has a few different ways to "deal" with issues that might not involve the MCU, if the MCU isn't involved it ain't going to be logging nothing, I might of had the 10s reboot a few days ago but nearly all of the time I get the 1s thing and no clue.

Is the ~1s thing perhaps a modus operandi of a MOV, one that is in-spec but some piece of my house load is occasionally triggering it during the waking hours?
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by coulomb »

rthorntn wrote: Sun, 27 Dec 2020, 12:21 I suspect the error "subsystem" is junk,
I think that's a bit harsh.
@coulomb do you have any idea from the firmware of how the fault logging works?
There is quite a lot of code involved. All over the code, measurements and checks are made; when something bad happens, the system enters fault mode. Every time a fault is triggered, an event is sent to the supervising task that then calls a function to record the status of a dozen or so key measurements: battery voltage, output power, bus voltage, AC in and out voltage, etc. These are written to EEPROM, in a special area that is only accessed by the QFS and QFAULT commands.

There is no database or other structure to store more than one fault record; the EEPROM is just a few kilobytes in size. So if you get say three faults in quick succession, you will only see the fault code and measurements for the last one.

There is a separate system for warnings. These set bits in a global variable, so you can have several warnings in effect at once. Only one of these is shown on the display, hopefully the most important one. Normal operation continues with warnings, unlike faults where nothing much happens unless the fault happens to be one of the restartable ones, and conditions are suitable for restarting. These short outages could be the result of restartable faults. They should still trigger fault recording though, unless of course another fault overwrites it.
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by rthorntn »

Thanks @coulomb!

Also, thanks for everything you do!

I hope you get where I'm coming from, maybe it's poor components, or my wiring but a dozen outages in as many weeks without a single error hardly inspires confidence in that subsystem and it isn't just me.
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by Revlac »

I mean it only happens between 0700 and 2000, if it was truly a random issue...
What is running (switched on) between 0700 and 2000 that isn't running any other time?
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by rthorntn »

Revlac wrote: Sun, 27 Dec 2020, 20:45 What is running (switched on) between 0700 and 2000 that isn't running any other time?
Thanks, I had a think about it and couldn't come up with anything.
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by gazzaman2k »

rthorntn wrote: Sun, 27 Dec 2020, 09:53 Thanks @gazzaman2k I'm just on the standard firmware right now, 71.80, are you sure your inverters are actually restarting, I have the ICC monitoring software on a Pi protected by a UPS and the inverters *seem* to stay up (I've never eyeballed the inverter LCD when this actually happens), can these inverters even do a full power-cycle in such a short amount of time?

Thanks @Revlac!
no ive not been infront of them when its done it, but that was my only guess due to home assistant not picking up any dropped voltage readings, the raspberry pis that are connected to the are on a ups to stop power outages if it was to occur and mess up my data logging.

the 4am time was my first one back in the summer, the sun was rising i think its to do with the solar when it starts to produce some watts and the voltage drops, as the other times it seems when there is cloud cover or just when the suns come out

like it cant react quick enough to power the house when the solar kicks in the battery consumpution will go down.

annoying as it is ive seen it a couple of times on the internet same model too the mg higher voltgage models.
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by rthorntn »

gazzaman2k wrote: Tue, 29 Dec 2020, 04:03 Annoying as it is I've seen it a couple of times on the internet, same model, the MG higher voltage models.
Thanks, do you have a link to where you have seen these outages mentioned before?

I'm just thinking more about this, my outages never happen at night with zero solar, there is perhaps something there, yeah like solar is covering the house load and suddenly something is turned on adding load and at the same time there is a dip in solar and it takes the system a bit to compensate with battery, of course this could all be complete nonsense. Maybe the parallel arrangement compounds this.
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by ochyst »

Hi.

I didn't check the exact version of the inverter and uploaded the firmware for PIP 5048MK (71.94) to Isolar SM II 5kW (PIP 5048MG) and it didn't turn out well.

The inverter only clicks after switching on, but the display does not respond and unfortunately the COM port does not respond either.

Please is there any chance to fix it?
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by coulomb »

ochyst wrote: Sun, 03 Jan 2021, 01:53 I didn't check the exact version of the inverter and uploaded the firmware for PIP 5048MK (71.94) to Isolar SM II 5kW (PIP 5048MG) and it didn't turn out well.
Ouch. It's scandalous that the inverters allow this to happen.
The inverter only clicks after switching on, but the display does not respond and unfortunately the COM port does not respond either.
Please is there any chance to fix it?
It may be possible. The interim fix is to load any PIP-MG firmware over the top of the PIP-MK firmware, so the inverter functions; then you can take your time to choose the correct MG firmware to update to. The latest PIP-MG firmware that I know of has the same version number as another PIP-MG firmware (so the PIP-MG version numbers are really messed up). The one you want seems to be "Axpert MKS II 5K71.82P correct PV MPPT.7z"; I'll check to make sure that it's downloadable later. For now, make sure that any update zip/rar file has "Axpert MKS II" in the name. At least so far, they don't seem to have messed up the actual file names :|

You presumably don't have a removable display, so the DSP with the wrong firmware is in control of the display. That's the reason for the display not appearing to work at all. So it looks and feels really bad, but as long as the task that handles the serial port is working enough to start a new reflash sequence, you should be able to recover. When you say that the COM port doesn't respond, that's a bad sign, but it might mean that the task handling commands crashes at some point, but is still working early on, before the firmware tries to do anything complex, like start up the DC-AC inverter, or in your case, the King's AC-DC converter that your model doesn't even have.

So follow the If you think your inverter is bricked post in the PIP-5048MS topic; it should hopefully apply to your PIP-5049MG. If you have to do the wait 12 seconds before turning on thing, be aware that the 12 second figure might be different for your model, so be prepared to try different values, and be patient.

Good luck!
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by ochyst »

coulomb wrote: Sun, 03 Jan 2021, 07:22
ochyst wrote: Sun, 03 Jan 2021, 01:53 I didn't check the exact version of the inverter and uploaded the firmware for PIP 5048MK (71.94) to Isolar SM II 5kW (PIP 5048MG) and it didn't turn out well.
Ouch. It's scandalous that the inverters allow this to happen.
The inverter only clicks after switching on, but the display does not respond and unfortunately the COM port does not respond either.
Please is there any chance to fix it?
It may be possible. The interim fix is to load any PIP-MG firmware over the top of the PIP-MK firmware, so the inverter functions; then you can take your time to choose the correct MG firmware to update to. The latest PIP-MG firmware that I know of has the same version number as another PIP-MG firmware (so the PIP-MG version numbers are really messed up). The one you want seems to be "Axpert MKS II 5K71.82P correct PV MPPT.7z"; I'll check to make sure that it's downloadable later. For now, make sure that any update zip/rar file has "Axpert MKS II" in the name. At least so far, they don't seem to have messed up the actual file names :|

You presumably don't have a removable display, so the DSP with the wrong firmware is in control of the display. That's the reason for the display not appearing to work at all. So it looks and feels really bad, but as long as the task that handles the serial port is working enough to start a new reflash sequence, you should be able to recover. When you say that the COM port doesn't respond, that's a bad sign, but it might mean that the task handling commands crashes at some point, but is still working early on, before the firmware tries to do anything complex, like start up the DC-AC inverter, or in your case, the King's AC-DC converter that your model doesn't even have.

So follow the If you think your inverter is bricked post in the PIP-5048MS topic; it should hopefully apply to your PIP-5049MG. If you have to do the wait 12 seconds before turning on thing, be aware that the 12 second figure might be different for your model, so be prepared to try different values, and be patient.

Good luck!
No success with "If you think your inverter is bricked".

It seems that the firmware upload program sends "20 times 0x00" data to the com port several times in a second, so any waiting should not affect the start of communication.

I tried 3s-23s waiting, but without success.

The inverter rocker switch must be turned on to provide 5V power to the communication board at all.

Isn't there another idea?
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by coulomb »

ochyst wrote: Tue, 05 Jan 2021, 05:42 It seems that the firmware upload program sends "20 times 0x00" data to the com port several times in a second, so any waiting should not affect the start of communication.
I'm dubious. I'm not familiar with the monitoring program you are using; are you sure that that is 20 bytes of actual serial data? It could be USB metadata; the image suggests "status" rather than "data".
I tried 3s-23s waiting, but without success.
This is presumably with the correct cabling, as has worked (only too well) before.
The inverter rocker switch must be turned on to provide 5V power to the communication board at all.
Are you sure about that? The rocker switch is merely a digital input to the DSP; it doesn't actually turn off the power. If there are no charging sources (PV-in or AC-in) and the rocker switch is off, then the firmware, after a many-second delay, sends a signal to an I/O port that kills the power. The comms board operates from HFPW+, which comes from the main power supply that powers the DSP and the LC Display. So as long as the lights are on, the comms board should have power. I'm only familiar with the PIP-MS models, but I'd be astonished if these models were different in this respect.
Isn't there another idea?
As per the "bricked" post, only purchasing another control board. Unless you have suitable JTAG hardware and know the security passcode.

Actually, now that I post this, it might be possible to erase just one flash segment (there are eight) with appropriate JTAG hardware; then the bootstrap loader would still be present, it would recognise that the firmware is not present, won't run the firmware, so it won't crash, and it should be possible to do a normal flash upload (albeit without the LC Display or anything else running). If this is indeed possible, then Weber and I would have been able to avoid purchasing a new control board back when we bricked one. It seems unlikely that we overlooked this possibility then, but I suppose it's possible. Let me think about it.
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by coulomb »

coulomb wrote: Tue, 05 Jan 2021, 07:44 Actually, now that I post this, it might be possible to erase just one flash segment (there are eight) with appropriate JTAG hardware... Let me think about it.
It's certainly not possible to erase just one sector; if that were possible, then you could erase sector A (with the password in it) and read sectors B-H (with the main firmware in it).

I thought there might be a global erase procedure, which would be safe, but it seems you can only erase one sector at a time.

All the flash registers are locked out when the device is secured (i.e. the password is programmed, as they all are now), so it's simply not possible to erase anything when the device is secured. So that option was never viable.
It seems unlikely that we overlooked this possibility then, but I suppose it's possible.
No, our former selves got that one right. It's my current self that forgot the details :? Sorry for the false hope.
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by tomhanman »

Hello, sorry to disturb you all down under. I'm (oddly enough) looking for a spot of help!

I've just dismantled a Nissan ENV-200 battery (leaf in a van form). So I have 48 modules each of 2s2p. I've also got 16 330w half cell 33.7v mpp 40v oc mono solar panels with Ali frames that are on an earthed steel roof.

Now I want to take my workshop nearly off-grid. I'll keep the grid as a backup for the moment, but I am trying to identify a solar inverter that will be able to deal with the (probably) 2 parallel chains of 8 panels giving max 19amps at round 270v (but In reality never more than 17amps). I've got no big machines and I'm on my own here so never two machines running at the same time.

The most important thing, is I'd like to run the modules in 8s6p so giving 16s12p cells, and to charge those to 4v would require 64v charge level and to 4.1v 65.6v. I am have been led to believe (from here: https://watts247.com/product/pip-5048mg/) that the 5048MG can do 66v 'equalization' charging. Which of course won't equalize anything in a lithium bank, but if I can program it to function at every charge then it might be ideal.

Can anyone give any advice, or ideas of alternative cheap inverters that would do what I'm after? I actually can't find the MG unit for sale anywhere over here anyway, maybe it has been superseded? I don't really need Bluetooth, or WiFi, or removable screens, just high voltage and functionality for around 5-600euros.

So, sorry to have bothered you, but spare a thought for us, it's winter here😖

Much obliged,
Tom.
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by gazzaman2k »

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MG-5000w-48v ... SwjFleT1OK

the 5048mg is still avaliable on ebay or direct from mpp if you email peggy
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by coulomb »

tomhanman wrote: Fri, 29 Jan 2021, 04:42 I've just dismantled a Nissan ENV-200 battery (leaf in a van form).
Sacrilege! :P Those things have air cooling. I wish my Leaf battery had that feature.
Now I want to take my workshop nearly off-grid. I'll keep the grid as a backup for the moment, but I am trying to identify a solar inverter that will be able to deal with the (probably) 2 parallel chains of 8 panels giving max 19amps at round 270v (but In reality never more than 17amps).
How "never" is "in reality never"? It seems that the high voltage SCCs have a struct limit of 18 A. I don't know more than that, except that if you go to 20 A, you might end up burning the SCC like this.
The most important thing, is I'd like to run the modules in 8s6p so giving 16s12p cells, and to charge those to 4v would require 64v charge level and to 4.1v 65.6v.
I know it's really inconvenient, but I think you're better off with 7S modules (14S cells). But let's continue with this idea for now.
I am have been led to believe (from here: https://watts247.com/product/pip-5048mg/) that the 5048MG can do 66v 'equalization' charging.
I don't know where they got that figure of 66 V from. The manual says 64 V max (66 V is the "battery protection" voltage), and the latest MG firmware that I have (one of the ones called version 71.82) definitely has a maximum value for setting 34 (equalisation voltage) of 64.0 V. So I think you're stuck with that. I think that even if you could convince an inverter to run at 66 V routinely, it would be sorely testing its reliability.
I actually can't find the MG unit for sale anywhere over here anyway, maybe it has been superseded?
I believe that it's still available; it's also known as the Axpert MKS II (and many other variants, sadly).
So, sorry to have bothered you, but spare a thought for us, it's winter here 😖
In most of Australia, we're having an especially mild summer, with much-needed (and sometimes too much) rain. Oh, wait, you wanted sympathy... 👿
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
tomhanman
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by tomhanman »

Thanks very much to both of you.

Yeah, so the MG is still out there on eBay, about 630euros plus whatever the French customs want to add on which will probably be quite a lot, as they do enjoy their jobs. That makes them more expensive than the Expert King SMP 5kW that I can have delivered from AliExpress (sent from inside the EU) for 550euros. It also states 64v as max charge voltage, and accepts 5000w solar. Any reason for the more attractive price?

Indeed
Sacrilege! :P Those things have air cooling. I wish my Leaf battery had that feature.
I did feel bad whilst doing it, and I wish I had it in my Leaf (30kwh currently 23kwh usable). But on the flip side the cells should be nicely conserved. Maybe.
if you go to 20 A, you might end up burning the SCC like this.
Yes I read that thread, and your thoughts and analysis before, that's how I found your site. It's interesting, and worrying. I don't believe they can have that tight a current limit and still suggest two strings and not have a fuse! And then there's the guy who posted that he has three strings each rated at over 7amps... Does he have constant shading...? I have 136kW of panels installed on my buildings with Huawei inverters selling into the grid. I have just looked through some of the data on the server for those, and with cloud edge effects, oh dear, yes I will probably clear 20amps on occasion.
I think you're better off with 7S modules (14S cells)
Judging by all I've seen you write on this forum, you don't think that! You think it would be easier maybe. But you know that 7s7p doesn't go into 48 😉. So I would have a 7s6p battery with 6 spare modules and 3kWh less storage. Plus the whole inverter would be running from a lover voltage, so more current and more heat and more loss and general bad stuff. I could just charge to 4v per cell at 64v and I'd be running an advantageously higher pack voltage and almost certainly lose less capacity than with the 7s6p charging to 4.15v version don't you think? plus the cells would have a slightly easier life and so may last longer (although anyone honestly believing there is any way to make leaf cells last longer is kidding themselves).

I think the 66v reference comes from the user manual:

Floating Charging Voltage: 54Vdc
Overcharge Protection: 66Vdc
Charging Algorithm: 3-Step

What to do!? How can there be sooo many versions of these things, and all with virtually identical specs / limitations. Any suggestions?

Sorry for lots of writing, but I find this really interesting, and relish the input of others that do also. Around here where I am in France there are just lots of 24v batteries, on tractors!

Regards,
Tom.

P.S. I'm not even going there with the weather comments 😄
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by coulomb »

tomhanman wrote: Fri, 29 Jan 2021, 16:08
Yeah, so the MG is still out there on eBay, about 630euros ... That makes them more expensive than the Expert King SMP 5kW that I can have delivered from AliExpress ... for 550euros. It also states 64v as max charge voltage, and accepts 5000w solar. Any reason for the more attractive price?
AliExpress is generally cheaper, I guess.

I would expect the Axpert King to be more expensive than the Axpert MKS II, because it has the zero transfer time (double conversion), the removable display, and a separate SCC. I note that the King has a 145 V max Solar Charge Controller, so they're not interchangeable.
I have 136kW of panels installed ...
That's impressive.
I think you're better off with 7S modules (14S cells)
Judging by all I've seen you write on this forum, you don't think that!
Why do you say that? Our firmware downloads have text like "For lead acid (24S), lithium cobalt-blends (LCO, NMC, NCM, NCA) (14S), and lithium titanate (LTO) (21S or 20S)".
But you know that 7s7p doesn't go into 48 😉.
Well, it doesn't miss out by much... ;)
So I would have a 7s6p battery with 6 spare modules and 3kWh less storage.
Yes. You say that like it's a bad thing. Sure, it's annoying, but spares are a good thing.
Plus the whole inverter would be running from a lower voltage, so more current and more heat and more loss and general bad stuff.
Why not run 100 V then? Because the inverter won't take it. Same with 16S.
I could just charge to 4v per cell at 64v and I'd be running an advantageously higher pack voltage and almost certainly lose less capacity than with the 7s6p charging to 4.15v version don't you think? plus the cells would have a slightly easier life ...
Yes, but the inverter will have a harder life. I don't know which would have more capacity in the end.
I think the 66v reference comes from the user manual:

Floating Charging Voltage: 54Vdc
Overcharge Protection: 66Vdc
Sure, but overcharge protection doesn't mean you can charge to that voltage every day, it means the inverter is close to exploding at 66 V, so the firmware shuts it down.
What to do!?
Just go with 7S modules. Then you don't even need a 64 V model, though it may be hard to avoid them these days.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
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