PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb »

Kurnol wrote: Fri, 31 Dec 2021, 09:00 Is there a setting I can use where the load i.e. the supply to the house is supplied from the batteries when the generator is running and in theory still charging the batteries.
No. The utility charger in these models uses the inverter in reverse, so the AC-in source has to power the loads. Perhaps you could find a powerful 48 V charger that the generator could run, with the generator then not connected to AC-in. An alternative might be to update the air conditioner to an inverter model. These presumably soft start the compressor motor, presenting much less of a peak load to the generator.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by Kurnol »

coulomb wrote: Fri, 31 Dec 2021, 09:29
Kurnol wrote: Fri, 31 Dec 2021, 09:00 Is there a setting I can use where the load i.e. the supply to the house is supplied from the batteries when the generator is running and in theory still charging the batteries.
No. The utility charger in these models uses the inverter in reverse, so the AC-in source has to power the loads. Perhaps you could find a powerful 48 V charger that the generator could run, with the generator then not connected to AC-in. An alternative might be to update the air conditioner to an inverter model. These presumably soft start the compressor motor, presenting much less of a peak load to the generator.
Thanks Coulomb, both great ideas which I will look into
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by Joy »

Hi All,


I was looking on the clipping post some 20 pages before.As always, absolut great work.
Do i get it right that for sine sensitive equip the bottom line is 48v? Under load or no matter of load?

I am rising this question as i have some smarthome stuff here that is fairly sensible on sine....in combination with a lead acid battery thats not new an quickly drops below 48v :oops:

Br

Joy
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb »

Joy wrote: Fri, 14 Jan 2022, 14:53 I was looking on the clipping post some 20 pages before.
Do i get it right that for sine sensitive equip the bottom line is 48v?
Yes, IF you are using a 64 V machine, but nearly all of them are these days. Despite the fact that the most popular batteries these days are 15S LFP, which work much better with the 58.4 V models.
Under load or no matter of load?
The nature of the transformer-based circuit is such that clipping will usually start happening at a battery terminal voltage of pretty close to 48.1 V regardless of load. But depending on your battery, it might have started at 49 or 50 V before it sagged under load. So it might be fairly full yet still exhibit clipping.
I am raising this question as i have some smarthome stuff here that is fairly [sensitive to] sine [waves]....in combination with a lead acid battery that's not new an quickly drops below 48v :oops:
Yes, you might be better off with a 58.4 V model, but of course that's probably not practical.
MG ZS EV 2021 April 2021. Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
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Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by Joy »

Hi,


Thank you Coulomb, as imagined :( for load means that i am nearly all time in clipping mode as the battery is very fast down to 48v,based on 24cells , lead acid.
Da...n

Anyway thank you.i will see if I take of th es inverter the smart stuff as its just for a couple lamps with low consumption.
If I had only known that before...


Br

Joy.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by CrAzY_DrIveR »

hi guys, a little question.
If i connect my 130v electric car battery to the 145v pv input of my 5048ms will it explode or will just gently use the power that the inverter needs :?: :roll:
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb »

CrAzY_DrIveR wrote: Sun, 16 Jan 2022, 20:42 If i connect my 130v electric car battery to the 145v pv input of my 5048ms will it explode or will just gently use the power that the inverter needs?
I don't recommend it. 130 V is above the MPPT range, and is the start of power ramp down (it goes to 0 W at 145 V). The firmware is also expecting panels that sag significantly in voltage when power is drawn, so the control algorithm (which is not the best and prone to over-shooting) might be even more unstable than usual. I think that a small change in the buck converter's PWM ratio will cause a sharp change in battery charging current, so I don't see it working well.

It will also charge the capacitors at the input of the solar charge controller very fast, causing a splat at connection. Any attempt to increase the sag and slow the capacitor charge rate will be lossy. There might be reasonable ways around all this, but it's not going to be trivial.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by Revlac »

Recently I have noticed there is no 5045HS/HSE or 5048MS/MSE available from the local shop or on the website from MPP.
Is this the end of the low input voltage lineup?
So what is the next best choice available?....not wanting to go to a high PV voltage input.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb »

Revlac wrote: Mon, 17 Jan 2022, 10:54 So what is the next best choice available?....not wanting to go to a high PV voltage input.
There is still the MK/King, at about the same price as the other 5 kW model. I note that there is even a high PV voltage version of the MK/King now (e.g. Axpert King II).

I haven't looked, but I believe that you can still get a PIP-5048MS equivalent from overseas, possibly even a 58.4 V model, just not branded MppSolar, and without local warranty or support. Though I see that the international MppSolar site list all PIP-MS models as "legacy models". The Voltronic Power website doesn't mark the Axpert MKS equivalents as legacy, but it's notoriously behind with its web site. It still seems to be missing the Axpert MKS III model, for example (though it might be bundled with other models somewhere that I haven't found it).

It's sad to see these trends.
MG ZS EV 2021 April 2021. Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
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Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by Aneantisor »

Hello,
My 4048 inverter as a problem with the pv power reading.
It come from current measure. Voltage saw by scc is OK, but not the current. I get an over measurement of 40%.
I had to replace the scc board because of a buck stage that burnout. But the measure is still wrong by 40%.
My question is, is there a way to calibrate the battery charge current reading?
Thank you.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by Frank2021 »

Which current display is wrong? The current from PV is not displayed.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb »

Aneantisor wrote: Wed, 19 Jan 2022, 19:23 Voltage seen by the scc is OK, but not the current. I get an over measurement of 40%.
Is is possible that you are confusing battery-side current with PV-side current?

I think some models report both. If your PV voltage is about 40% higher than your battery voltage (not unreasonable, around 73 V), then the battery-side current will be about 40% higher than the PV-side current.
I had to replace the scc board because of a buck stage that burned out.
Another possibility is that the system is confused about 80 A and 60 A SCCs. 80/60 = 1.33, and the scaling might be a bit different, so that might account for a ~40% difference. I seem to recall that Weber went to some trouble to make the patched firmware agile with respect to 60 A and 80 A SCCs; I can't recall if the factory firmware was also agile.

Or perhaps you're running patched firmware and have uncovered a bug.
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Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by Aneantisor »

Thanks for the reply, it could be because of an old firmware, my inverter run 52.30. Or something similar. A really old one. I contact coulomb about 7 month ago to upgrade the firmware. But the baby came earlier than we expected. 😊
On screen, pv watt overshoot.
On screen, it show pv current. But this is wrong.
I have to multiply pv current with battery voltage to get the same result as pv watt.
So I guess it is not pv current but battery current.
You didn't spoke about a calibrate. So the only way to fix this is to upgrade firmware.
PS : even considering this is battery current. When compared with my ampmeter, It overmeasure of about 40%.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb »

Aneantisor wrote: Fri, 21 Jan 2022, 03:34 On screen, it show pv current. But this is wrong.
I have to multiply pv current with battery voltage to get the same result as pv watt.

Ok, so when it displays PV current, it's on the SCC output, not the input.
So I guess it is not pv current but battery current.
Yes, except that battery current has two components, current into the battery from the SCC, and current out of the battery supplying the load and losses. And non-patched firmware separates net positive current and net outgoing going current, which I find confusing. So with enough load, the battery charge current reports as zero, and the discharge current is reduced by the amount of charge current. It's less confusing IMHO with patched firmware.
You didn't spoke about a calibrate. So the only way to fix this is to upgrade firmware.
There are constants in the SCC firmware for this, but I don't know of any way of changing those.
PS : even considering this is battery current. When compared with my ampmeter, It overmeasure of about 40%.
Is this taking current for the load and losses into account? Perhaps 35% goes to loads and 5% to losses.
MG ZS EV 2021 April 2021. Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by MarkusRE »

Hi all,

I am using 2 PylonUS2000C and 4 US2000B and had some issues, that first (master battery) got on error. Maybe its an known issue, but wanna tell you. My US2000C had firmware v1.7 and I received v2.7 now from Pylontech. I flashed he new firmware and no errors anymore. If anybody is interested, I made a package with some Firmwarefiles.

Whats in:
UP5000US3000CUS2000C v2.7.bin
us2000B_Plus_V3.4_Crc.bin
us3000a_V3.4_Crc.bin

Also Batteryview V2.xx
and Batteryview 3.0.25

Last but not least a documentation how to dreate a Com cable for serial connection as PDF.

Just let me know

Kind regards
Markus
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by Adagio »

coulomb wrote: Fri, 08 Feb 2019, 19:28 Calibrating your inverter's battery voltage reading
If your inverter reads too HIGH:
by .05 V: BTA-01      42 54 41 2D 30 31 82 3C 0D
by 0.1 V: BTA-02      42 54 41 2D 30 32 B2 5F 0D
by 0.2 V: BTA-04      42 54 41 2D 30 34 D2 99 0D
by 0.3 V: BTA-06      42 54 41 2D 30 36 F2 DB 0D
by 0.4 V: BTA-08      42 54 41 2D 30 38 13 15 0D
by .45 V: BTA-09      42 54 41 2D 30 39 03 34 0D

If your inverter reads too LOW:
by .05 V: BTA+01      42 54 41 2B 30 31 30 9C 0D
by 0.1 V: BTA+02      42 54 41 2B 30 32 00 FF 0D
by 0.2 V: BTA+04      42 54 41 2B 30 34 60 39 0D
by 0.3 V: BTA+06      42 54 41 2B 30 36 40 7B 0D
by 0.4 V: BTA+08      42 54 41 2B 30 38 A1 B5 0D
by .45 V: BTA+09      42 54 41 2B 30 39 B1 94 0D

For testing your comms etc but not do anything:
by 0.0 V: BTA-00      42 54 41 2D 30 30 92 1D 0D  
Hey guys.
I'n not getting a ACK9
I'm getting a NACK if I'm sending something it doesn't understand, and It echos the things it appearently does understand, but as for the voltage reading, just stays exactly the same.

I have a 12V 1000VA Axpert.
It's a pretty old one, and it's been through some shit.
(I got it free cause it had a fault on it, turned out to just be a relay, so cheap fix.)

The readings are significantly lower than it's supposed to be. Like 0.7V But the error is also not very linear.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb »

Are you sure of your comms technique? In particular, are you sending the CRCs often with sign bit set, and not sending the CRC twice?

An easy way to test is with a simple query command, like QPIGS or QMOD (add CRCs and carriage return). If these return a NAK, then you haven't got it right yet.

You need the right sort of comms program, configured to receive hexadecimal, to be able to send the hex strings that you quoted.

I recommend Weber's simplified pair of commands, sending as many times as needed, unless you have automatic or easy CRC sending.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by alvideo »

Hi everyone!
Controller in my inverter control card burned out.

If in control card i solder new blank chip, it's possible to flash it via RS232? Maybe is other solution?

[ Edited Coulomb: I mangled this post; there may have been additional test here. Sorry! Recovered most of it now. ]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/196XbT4 ... eZJ9U/view

https://drive.google.com/file/d/181nE-8 ... F4qrJ/view

https://drive.google.com/file/d/164BfCS ... nwd6j/view

[ Edited Coulomb: turned Google Drive images into straight URLs; Google Drive is a poor host for images. ]
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb »

alvideo wrote: Tue, 05 Apr 2022, 16:18 Hi everyone!
Controller in my inverter control card burned out.
Are you sure? It's very rare for the DSP to fail in my experience.
If in control card i solder new blank chip, it's possible to flash it via RS232?
Programming up a totally blank new chip is highly advanced work. Just unsoldering the old chip without ruining the fine tracks on the PCB is a challenge; really you need a special desoldering tool with an appropriate nozzle. Soldering in the new chip without short circuiting at least half a dozen pairs of pins is another challenge. Then you need a JTAG programmer, the Code Composer Studio software, and a bootloader image suitable for your model. [ Edit: the bootloaders are all slightly different so that you can't easily overwrite firmware with the totally wrong version; I would not have one suitable for your model. ]
Maybe is other solution?
First see if there is some other fault on the control board that is a lot easier to fix. Next, you should try to buy a replacement control board from your supplier. Since EASun is likely a clone manufacturer, I have no idea how successful that might be. You might be able to get a board from Ebay or the like, but the chances of getting the exact right version with the exact right bootloader are quite low. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. That's one of the hassles of buying a clone.
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Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by Emblema »

Hello everyone,

Please someone could remind me of the

Serial command, to turn off the Inverter? (As if you press the button at the bottom right.) I remember that in the modified firmware it had been added ..

Regards
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by weber »

Emblema wrote: Fri, 15 Apr 2022, 01:30 Please someone could remind me of the Serial command, to turn off the Inverter? (As if you press the button at the bottom right.) I remember that in the modified firmware it had been added ..
It is MNCHGC0497 for a single inverter or a master, and MNCHGC1497 thru MNCHGC8497 for slaves 1 thru 8. And MNCHGC0498 etc to turn it back on again. See the Dynamic Charge and Load Control (DC&LC) manual in the Documentation section of the Index post (first post of this thread).
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by Emblema »

weber wrote: Fri, 15 Apr 2022, 04:57

It is MNCHGC0497 for a single inverter or a master, and MNCHGC1497 thru MNCHGC8497 for slaves 1 thru 8. And MNCHGC0498 etc to turn it back on again. See the Dynamic Charge and Load Control (DC&LC) manual in the Documentation section of the Index post (first post of this thread).
Done!!

Thanks
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by Emblema »

Another thing,

there’s a way to check if the inverter it’s switched off? (Of course with the serial command)

Thanks
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by weber »

Emblema wrote: Fri, 15 Apr 2022, 20:32 there’s a way to check if the inverter it’s switched off? (Of course with the serial command)
Yes. See the documentation for the QPGS0 thru QPGS8 command in The main serial communications protocol manual. It is bit 1 of the Inverter status field U. b1: 1 load on, 0 load off.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by Emblema »

weber wrote: Fri, 15 Apr 2022, 21:51
Emblema wrote: Fri, 15 Apr 2022, 20:32 there’s a way to check if the inverter it’s switched off? (Of course with the serial command)
Yes. See the documentation for the QPGS0 thru QPGS8 command in The main serial communications protocol manual. It is bit 1 of the Inverter status field U. b1: 1 load on, 0 load off.
Thanks!
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