PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

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wolfandy
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by wolfandy » Tue, 12 Nov 2019, 23:07

Thanks for all your feedback, Coulomb. I really appreciate it

But just for clarification: Are my original following statements not incorrect?
  • In the morning, any PV would supplement my consumption (battery still empty)
  • Once PV exceeds my consumption, it would charge the battery
Would this not mean mixing sources in the morning? As my Axpert cannot do this, would it then not be rather this?
  • In the morning, while PV is less than consumption, PV charges the battery
  • Once PV exceeds consumption, PV covers consumption and any excess is used for charging the battery
Sorry for being a bit pedantic, but I am still trying to figure out whether PV makes financial sense for me (and if yes, what size). And this would mean that until my PV production reaches my consumption, I will continue to use the grid - which means that I cannot really claim this portion of the PV production as a saving (the battery would get fully charged throughout the day anyways)

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by Mantas » Wed, 13 Nov 2019, 00:30

weber wrote:
Tue, 12 Nov 2019, 15:23
Hi @Mantas. If you want to have any chance of paralleling the new machine with the old ones, you must not buy a 64 V machine. That means you must not buy a PIP-5048MS. You need an Axpert MKS 5K that does not have the 64 V option, or a rebadged equivalent such as the Mecer SOL-I-AX-5P (not the SOL-I-AX-5P64 or the SOL-I-AX-5KP).
Hi Weber.

Thanks for that. I would not have made that mistake, but better safe than sorry, I suppose 😉

I have my replacement RCT 5000 mks installed and this one is authentic in all Axperts :lol: All the right stickers in the right places, right colour screws, correct serial number assembly, correct serial number in WatchPower; so I think I’m good to go.

I have a new question however. The new guy is on firmware U1 74.31

Do I still flash PB1_72.70b to both the 5KW and 4KW in order to parallel them?

The new inverter also shows U2 04.12. Can I leave that as is? My PV array only connect to this inverter. For some reason I get no PV readings on the other inverter, but that is a problem for another day.

Thanks once again for all your assistance, I truly appreciate it!

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by Mantas » Wed, 13 Nov 2019, 00:32

wolfandy wrote:
Tue, 12 Nov 2019, 17:25
Hi all

I am a new member from South Africa :)
Hello fellow South African ;)

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by Mantas » Wed, 13 Nov 2019, 01:05

wolfandy wrote:
Tue, 12 Nov 2019, 23:07

Would this not mean mixing sources in the morning? As my Axpert cannot do this...
wolfandy, what do you mean yours can't mix sources? I had the exact same model (it recently went faulty after nearly 5 years) and it quite happily switched between sources. In the morning it would start charging the batteries from about 6am with the bit of solar I got and fed my appliances from council power. From about 9am I would have enough solar to charge the batteries and supply what I needed to run computers and lights. If I switched on the kettle, for instance, it would quite seamlessly switch over to council power, for that bit of time.

I do use mine in Solar priority output mode though and not in SBU. I need my batteries for backup with our loadshedding woes.

As far as charging the batteries is concerned, I have set mine to charge from solar first and utility at max 10A. I still save enough to make a half decent dent in my utility bill. I could probably save alot more if I ran in SBU but like I said, I need my batteries full at night in case of a power failure.

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb » Wed, 13 Nov 2019, 06:48

wolfandy wrote:
Tue, 12 Nov 2019, 23:07
But just for clarification: Are my original following statements not incorrect?
  • In the morning, any PV would supplement my consumption (battery still empty)
  • Once PV exceeds my consumption, it would charge the battery
Would this not mean mixing sources in the morning? As my Axpert cannot do this, would it then not be rather this?
  • In the morning, while PV is less than consumption, PV charges the battery
  • Once PV exceeds consumption, PV covers consumption and any excess is used for charging the battery
You didn't mention powering the loads from AC-in. I was thinking of the situation (as I have here) where it's extremely rare to switch to AC-in at all, certainly not every night. In those cases, the inverter-charger is blending battery power and PV power to supply the loads, and if/when the PV power is sufficient, all load power comes from PV, and the battery is charged from any excess.

So let's split into two cases:
1) Inverter is in "line mode". AC-in supplies all the load, no PV supports the loads at all. All PV power charges the battery. If enabled, the AC-in can charge the battery at the same time as the PV. It doesn't matter whether PV power exceeds the load or not; nothing special happens at that point. The inverter-charger will switch out of line mode only when the battery voltage exceeds the value in setting 13, the "back to battery" setting. Ideally, this state is to be avoided if possible.

2) Inverter is in "battery mode". The battery and/or PV supplies the load; AC-in is not used at all except to synchronise the inverter output for possible quick and minimal-glitch switching to AC-in if required. In this mode, if the PV power exceeds that of the load (ignoring losses for simplicity), then the excess charges the battery. If the PV power is less than the load, the battery supplies the difference, and discharges a little. The difference can't be taken from AC-in. The inverter-charger stays in this mode until the battery voltage drops below the value in setting 12, the "back to utility" setting. Ideally, this is the mode you'd prefer to have your inverter-charger in most of the time. But of course, to do that, you need sufficient battery storage and solar panels, appropriate to your loads.
And this would mean that until my PV production reaches my consumption, I will continue to use the grid -
As noted above, you will continue to use the grid until the battery voltage reaches the value in setting 13. If you want, you can make this fairly low, so that you don't spend much time using grid power.
which means that I cannot really claim this portion of the PV production as a saving (the battery would get fully charged throughout the day anyways)
I think you should look at it as a saving: the energy you put into the battery will save you from having to use grid power at a later time. There are losses of course, so the best way to use solar power is to be in battery mode, organise your loads to coincide (as much as is practical) with solar availability, so that the loads are powered directly from the panels. That way, you don't have to put the energy into the battery and take it out again with losses, and you don't cycle the battery unnecessarily.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by weber » Wed, 13 Nov 2019, 07:30

Mantas wrote:
Wed, 13 Nov 2019, 00:30
I have a new question however. The new guy is on firmware U1 74.31

Do I still flash PB1_72.70b to both the 5KW and 4KW in order to parallel them?

The new inverter also shows U2 04.12. Can I leave that as is? My PV array only connect to this inverter. For some reason I get no PV readings on the other inverter, but that is a problem for another day.

Thanks once again for all your assistance, I truly appreciate it!
Thanks for the kind words.

You can actually do a little better than PB1_72.70b. You can flash them both to LC1_72.70c, as you can read here:
https://powerforum.co.za/topic/2554-axp ... ment-42385
But note that the bugs HannesE thought he saw, in the way things were displayed on the LCD, are actually features once you understand them, as Coulomb explains 2 posts later.

It's possible that it might also work if you flash them both to LC1_73.00e. But this has not been tried.

I note that once you start reflashing, there is no way to restore your existing 74.31. But 74.40 is available.

Yes you can and should leave U2 04.12 as it is. That's good SCC firmware.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb » Wed, 13 Nov 2019, 16:18

derBastler wrote:
Sat, 02 Nov 2019, 21:56
We have VW E-Golf Batteries, VW Passat GTE, VW E-Up, BMW i3 and all other manufacturer batteries. A very typical batterie nominal voltage is 44,4V. Upper limit 50,2V, Lower Limit 38,4V

It would be great to change the PIP-5048MS to this values to bring a hugh mass of batteries into second use applications.

Do you think this is possible?
Weber and I have been considering this possibility. One thing that bothered us is how such a low battery voltage will generate enough bus voltage to generate a 230 V sine wave. In fact, we began to wonder how these inverter-chargers work down to as low as 40 V (the lowest possible value for setting 29, the Low DC cutoff voltage). We know from experience that the bus voltage is usually very close to 8.0 times the battery voltage, presumably due to the high frequency transformer turns ratio of 1:8. 40 V times 8 is only 320 V, which is not enough to generate the peaks of a 230 V sine wave (a bare minimum of 230 x √2 = 325 V is required).

Weber conjectured further that the 64 V models (which can charge the battery up to a maximum of 64.0 V) must have a lower turns ratio in their transformers, because 64 V times 8 is 512 V, and the inverter bus capacitors are rated for 500 V. Indeed, he found that his 64 V model usually had a bus voltage of very close to 7 times the battery voltage. Yet these models still allow the battery voltage to go as low as 40 V. With the battery voltage at 40.0 V, the bus voltage would only be 280 V... how does that produce a 230 V sine wave?

There is a circuit between the DC-DC converter and the inverter proper, called the buck converter in some service manuals. Its main purpose seems to be to buck a high bus voltage down to an appropriate voltage for utility charging the battery. In other words, it's a buck converter when power flows from the inverter output (connected to AC-in when utility charging) towards the battery. We wondered if that converter could act as a boost converter when power flows from the battery to the load (i.e. in battery mode). There seemed to be clues in the firmware that supported this idea. However, when we looked at the block diagram in this post, it sure didn't look like the buck converter was bidirectional.

To sort out what really happens with a low battery voltage, Weber kindly reconfigured his battery from 16S of LFP (nominally 51.2 V) to 13S (nominally 41.6 V).His 64 V model inverter claimed it was generating 230 Vac on the LC Display. With the battery voltage at 44.4 V, the bus voltage (as revealed by the QPIGS command) was 311 V. (311 / 44.4 = 7.005). How was it generating 230 V? So we set up Weber's DSO to look at the generated waveform. This is what we found:

Clipped output 42.9.png
Clipped output 42.9.png (4.52 KiB) Viewed 995 times

We measured the peak to peak voltage at 576 V, or 288 V peak to zero. The bus voltage would have been about 42.9 x 7.0 = 300 V, so there is an overhead of some 12 V.

Using the default output voltage of 230 V, to avoid clipping you'd need about 230 × √2 + 12 = 337 V. With a 58.4 V model (1:8 transformer), that means the lowest battery voltage to avoid clipping would be 337 / 8 = 42.1 V. That would be 3.51 Vpc for a 12S NMC or NCA battery, which seems to be about 12% SOC, per the table below.




With a 64 V model (1:7 transformer) the situation is much worse, even when you tell the inverter to only output 220 V, as shown in the following table. Using an output voltage of 220 V instead of the default 230 V helps, but only a little.

                      Onset of clipping
Model    Out V  | Bus V     Bat V     Cell V (12S)    SOC (12S NMC)
----------------+---------------------------------------------------
64V       230   | 337      48.1 V    4.02 V           90%
64V       220   | 323      46.2 V    3.85 V           75% 
58.4V     230   | 337      42.1 V    3.51 V           12%
----------------+---------------------------------------------------

In summary: Unless you don't care about the output clipping, using a battery whose nominal voltage is less than 48 V isn't going to work well with a 64 V inverter model.

[ Edit: many minor rewordings; thanks Weber. ]
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by weber » Thu, 14 Nov 2019, 09:25

I'd state the conclusion a bit differently from Coulomb. I'd say the 64 V models are an abomination. They claim to work with nominally 48 V lead-acid batteries, and they claim to be pure sine wave. And yet they can't even produce a pure sine wave at 48 V, if they have any kind of load on them.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by wolfandy » Thu, 14 Nov 2019, 23:31

Thanks for your responses, Coulomb and Mantas

Apologies for the delayed response, but I am in Ghana at the moment for work...
wolfandy, what do you mean yours can't mix sources? I had the exact same model (it recently went faulty after nearly 5 years) and it quite happily switched between sources. In the morning it would start charging the batteries from about 6am with the bit of solar I got and fed my appliances from council power. From about 9am I would have enough solar to charge the batteries and supply what I needed to run computers and lights. If I switched on the kettle, for instance, it would quite seamlessly switch over to council power, for that bit of time.

I do use mine in Solar priority output mode though and not in SBU. I need my batteries for backup with our loadshedding woes.

As far as charging the batteries is concerned, I have set mine to charge from solar first and utility at max 10A. I still save enough to make a half decent dent in my utility bill. I could probably save alot more if I ran in SBU but like I said, I need my batteries full at night in case of a power failure.
This is exactly what I have in mind :) With the exception that I am planning 2 different settings depending on the Eskom situation:
  1. If Eskom is in loadshedding times, then as per your above to ensure that the battery are always full
  2. If the loadshedding situation is relaxed (as it is at least in my area at the moment), then SBU to maximise savings
I am running a Pi with ICC software connected to my Axpert, so switching between these settings should be easy.
You didn't mention powering the loads from AC-in. I was thinking of the situation (as I have here) where it's extremely rare to switch to AC-in at all, certainly not every night. In those cases, the inverter-charger is blending battery power and PV power to supply the loads, and if/when the PV power is sufficient, all load power comes from PV, and the battery is charged from any excess.
I just do not think that my 3.5kWh Pylontech will get me through the night. And I am a bit hesitant at the moment to add more battery capacity as I am not sure that it makes financial sense. My existing Pylontech I bought to cover me when we have loadshedding - and this investment is absolutely worth it as it ensures quality of life. But another Pylontech would give me an extra 2.8kWh of capacity (at 80% DoD), which translates into R5.60 savings per night (at currently about R2/kWh from the grid). At a local price of R19.500 for the Pylontech, this means a payback period of around 9.5 years. And I just do not think that this makes sense at the moment. If the local power price goes up further (which it surely will), additional capacity will become more attractive. And as I understand that with the Pylontechs you do not have to worry about mixing batteries of different ages, I think adding capacity at a later stage makes more sense for me.
Inverter is in "battery mode". The battery and/or PV supplies the load; AC-in is not used at all except to synchronise the inverter output for possible quick and minimal-glitch switching to AC-in if required. In this mode, if the PV power exceeds that of the load (ignoring losses for simplicity), then the excess charges the battery. If the PV power is less than the load, the battery supplies the difference, and discharges a little. The difference can't be taken from AC-in. The inverter-charger stays in this mode until the battery voltage drops below the value in setting 12, the "back to utility" setting. Ideally, this is the mode you'd prefer to have your inverter-charger in most of the time. But of course, to do that, you need sufficient battery storage and solar panels, appropriate to your loads.
As per above, this is also the mode that I would prefer - except that I will not have sufficient battery capacity to get me through the night. So I would eventually switch to grid every night

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by derBastler » Sat, 16 Nov 2019, 05:42

coulomb wrote:
Wed, 13 Nov 2019, 16:18
was bidirectional.

To sort out what really happens with a low battery voltage, Weber kindly reconfigured his battery from 16S of LFP (nominally 51.2 V) to 13S (nominally 41.6 V).His 64 V model inverter claimed it was generating 230 Vac on the LC Display. With the battery voltage at 44.4 V, the bus voltage (as revealed by the QPIGS command) was 311 V. (311 / 44.4 = 7.005). How was it generating 230 V? So we set up Weber's DSO to look at the generated waveform. This is what we found:

[ Edit: many minor rewordings; thanks Weber. ]
Thank you for conducting this experiment. At the moment we are working on solutions to this problem. I have 3 of the 64V Version inverter with 450V-MPPT.

At the same time I built a 14S battery pack to see if the inverters work properly with NMC at all. Fortunately, the E-Golf 7 has two types of battery modules built in, 4S3P and 2S3P. You can use them to build 14S3P batteries (Nominal voltage 51.8V).
vw-hochvoltbatteriesystem-e-golf-7f744e24.jpg
vw-hochvoltbatteriesystem-e-golf-7f744e24.jpg (55 KiB) Viewed 876 times
I directly put that to the inverter. DONT do that for 24h use without a fuse! I saw a lot of burning batteries in my career.
IMG_20191115_222117.jpg
IMG_20191115_222117.jpg (3.72 MiB) Viewed 876 times

In summary, I can say that this setup works well. I still have to test it in three phases but it looks good till yet. If you set the Bulk charging voltage=Float charging voltage, it seems deactivated. Additional i deactivated the "equalization". For NMC and NCA you simply use a CC-CV charging.

We continue to work...

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by paulvk » Sat, 16 Nov 2019, 15:34

Now that I have found some software to capture the animated screen
here is it working
Note got rid of dry cell battery now have animated one and got rid of light globe house makes more sense
https://youtu.be/irECmmy1-ds

This will be my base screen for normal monitoring

Regards Paul

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by wolfandy » Tue, 19 Nov 2019, 00:48

Hi all

I have now decided that I will go PV and would like to ask for a bit of advice on sizing the PV system for my Axpert. I have received advice from a local installer (who has done a number of installations in my area and seems knowledgeable) but would like to sanity check it.

My Axpert is the 5kVA / 4kW model with max 3kW PV and 145V max SCC. I would like to run a number of larger consumers off PV during the day (AC, pool pump, etc), so I would like to get as close to the 3kW PV as possible.

Here is what my local installer has told me:
  • He recommends JA Solar mono PERC 5BB modules
  • Put 3 panels in series (roughly 40V each) to get as close to 145V SCC as possible - then put multiple strings of these in parallel
  • He says that I cannot exceed 3kW installed capacity as it could otherwise destroy the DC board in my Axpert - and that I need to take into consideration the power tolerance of the PV panels
  • According to him, I need to calculate with a +5% power tolerance (due to conditions in South Africa). However, the specs on the JA panels reads +5W - which is a significantly difference
  • He recommends 9 x 315W panels (2,835W), which with his +5% tolerance calculation would get me to 2,977W
  • However, if I follow the JA spec of +5W tolerance, I would only get to 2,880W
How 'strict' is that 3kW PV capacity limit? Would 9 x 330W panels, which incl. +5W tolerance would total 3,015W be a viable alternative? Or would the risk of damaging my Axpert be too high?

Thanks :D

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb » Tue, 19 Nov 2019, 06:15

wolfandy wrote:
Tue, 19 Nov 2019, 00:48
Put 3 panels in series (roughly 40V each) to get as close to 145V SCC as possible - then put multiple strings of these in parallel
I don't agree with the idea of getting as close as possible to 145 V; the solar charge controller starts derating (using less power than rated) after 130 V, and will use zero power at 145 V. The multiple strings are needed for these models.
He says that I cannot exceed 3kW installed capacity as it could otherwise destroy the DC board in my Axpert - and that I need to take into consideration the power tolerance of the PV panels
It's definitely not a strict limit like that. However, how far you can go past the nominal power is not known. For a few other models where the manufacturer actually supplies a maximum PV power rating that isn't the same as the nominal power, it's about 12.5% greater than nominal. For example, 4000 W nominal and 4500 W maximum power. So I'd say that in general 10% more than nominal should be fine. I have this model myself, and one of them has been running 3200 W of panels for years without problems. That's 6.7% over nominal.
How 'strict' is that 3kW PV capacity limit?
As stated above, not very. But you should not go too high, as then overshoots could become a problem.
Would 9 x 330W panels, which incl. +5W tolerance would total 3,015W be a viable alternative? Or would the risk of damaging my Axpert be too high?
It certainly won't blow up your solar charge controller. [ Edit: not from excessive PV power. ] However, the more important question is how many cells are in the 330 W panels. The 310 W panels you mentioned (PERC 5BB) are 60 cell, with a Voc of 40.3. This is perfect for the 145 V max solar charge controllers: even in winter, the maximum voltage will still be just under 130 V. But 72 cell panels have a Voc more like 46 V or more, which means the maximum voltage at 0°C is over 148 V, and with that you really do risk blowing up your solar charge controller. Even if it doesn't blow up, you'll find the controller is stressing out too much, and will be reducing its output to prevent damage. So check the specifications for the number of cells.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by weber » Tue, 19 Nov 2019, 08:51

I agree with Coulomb. 145 V is an absolute maximum limit for array open-circuit voltage. You need to know the coldest dawn panel temperature you can expect at midwinter in your location and use it to adjust the panel's datasheet Voc (which is at 25 °C) using the datasheet temperature coefficient of Voc. 3S of 60-cell panels is usually OK. 3S of 72-cell panels is usually not.

There isn't really any limit, in terms of safety, to the nominal power of the PV array. The SCC will not draw any more current than it can handle. It's just a question of diminishing value for money because the output will be clipped in the middle hours of every non-cloudy day. In Australia, up to a 33% oversizing of the array is permitted under the MRET subsidy scheme.

Coulomb, can you please spell out what you mean by overshoot. What quantity overshoots what threshold, and why is this bad?
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb » Tue, 19 Nov 2019, 10:09

weber wrote:
Tue, 19 Nov 2019, 08:51
Coulomb, can you please spell out what you mean by overshoot. What quantity overshoots what threshold, and why is this bad?
Solar charge current is the quantity that overshoots. It's bad because it could damage the battery (unlikely because it's short duration), or cause the BMS to nuisance-trip. I'm having the nuisance trip issue right now; even setting the maximum charge current to zero, it overshoots by over 6 A. The overshoot of solar current causes the battery voltage to overshoot the absorb voltage setting.

This is exacerbated today because I'm running a load that switches from 1000 W to zero several times a minute (the load is a cheap induction cooker; every setting below 1000 W is "slow PWMed").

When I say "nuisance trip", I mean it's a nuisance to hear the contactors clunking repeatedly, and if the solar charge controller didn't overshoot, it wouldn't happen. However, these trips are highly preferred over a cell getting overcharged and therefore ruined. I'll try a little manual balancing shortly; it's always cell 5 that goes over-voltage.

Solar charge current undershoots as well, but that never threatens the safety of the battery, and the tiny quantity of lost energy is replaced within a minute.

[ Edit: 300 W → 6 A ]
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by dekin » Tue, 19 Nov 2019, 15:23

Hi coulomb
Using an online PV calculator with a maximum and minimum temperature recordered in my location as 33 and 22 degrees, connecting a 375W panels in 3S gives a maximum voc of 144 which is below the 145V for the Axpert King inverter. Is it advisable to still go this route?
I keeping reading from online forums that having a high voc panels gives you maximum harvest as against low voc panels. how true is this?

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by wolfandy » Tue, 19 Nov 2019, 19:50

Thanks a lot for the feedback, Coulomb and Weber !

I will go with 9x 315W (JA Solar PERC 5BB, 60 cells) then :)

They have a Voc of 40.53V, which in our winters (around 5 degrees in the morning) should keep me just below the 130V and definitely below the 145V

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by wolfandy » Tue, 19 Nov 2019, 23:38

dekin wrote:
Tue, 19 Nov 2019, 15:23
maximum and minimum temperature recorded in my location as 33 and 22 degrees
Just out of curiosity, dekin - but where in the world do you live that you have such a narrow temperature band throughout the year?

dekin
Noobie
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun, 13 Oct 2019, 15:57

Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by dekin » Wed, 20 Nov 2019, 00:45

Lagos Nigeria

T1 Terry
Senior Member
Posts: 993
Joined: Thu, 30 Sep 2010, 20:11
Real Name: Terry Covill
Location: Mannum SA

Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by T1 Terry » Wed, 20 Nov 2019, 10:15

I found with the PIP inverters with the 80 amp MPPT solar controller, 4500w for the 48v units was borderline but if the open circuit voltage reaches close to the 145v mark, the unit shuts the charge controller down until the Voc drops well below the 140v mark. Generally not an issue in the morning because the MPPT controller will start up at first light and load the panels so the voltage is held lower than the Voc, and by the time the sun has reached an angle to get the panels up closer to full production, the panel temp is well above 25*C. Having said that, I always stay below the 120v Voc anyway to stay under the licencing requirements in Australia. Three Tindo panels in series only comes to 115.5Voc @ 25*C, so well within the limits.
The major problem with oversizing the array's output is controller heat in the middle of the day, the hottest part of the day. The controller will limit the current flow, but it gets hot doing it because the current control is via rapid switching as far as I can tell and at full load that generates a lot of heat.
When I quizzed the Morning Star MPPT engineers on one of those Webinars, they later emailed me suggesting that areas with high ambient temperatures should not over build the array compared to the controllers maximum capacity, the complete opposite of what they had suggested in the webinar and on their website. The Morning Star controllers do not have a fan, but are very energy efficient, the PIP inverters do have fans but their efficiency isn't as good.

T1 Terry
Green but want to learn

wolfandy
Noobie
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue, 12 Nov 2019, 16:49
Real Name: Andy Wolf

Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by wolfandy » Wed, 20 Nov 2019, 18:40

dekin wrote:
Wed, 20 Nov 2019, 00:45
Lagos Nigeria
Interesting - thanks :)

Am in and out of Accra and central Ghana on a regular basis (so somewhat similar neck of the woods) but have to admit that I never realized that the temperature does not dramatically change between seasons...

McMajan
Noobie
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu, 21 Nov 2019, 06:11
Real Name: Stefano Smania

Bricked or not bricked...this is the question....

Post by McMajan » Fri, 22 Nov 2019, 23:10

Hi guys. This is my first post in this great forum and I don’t speak english well so don’t kill me if I do mistakes. I’ve a huge problem with my Axpert MKS 5k (0.8f - SolarPower24). In the past I upgraded the firmar to version 73.00c withtout any problem. Now, trying to update to 73.00e the inverter had some big problems. The procedure start correcly , opens the COM port, ERASE the flash (so my inverter can’t restart), and start to flash new firmware. But at this poin the procedure fail. It seam to write some block, 1, 5, 7, a random but little number in 1-2 minutes then fails. I tried to change port to COM1, change the adaptor (PL2303 chip), used a pc with Win7 (normally I’m using a W10 notebook). All load / PV are locked by breaker, conneted only to battery, good voltage, usb disconnected, cable RS2322 9 pin to RJ45 checked using a multimeter, inverter seams to be original (not clone).
I tried to upgrade U2 firmware but it fails (PV connetced, COM1, regsvr done).
I tried to sniff the serial connection. The result is:

Code: Select all

SUDT ACCESSPORT LOG FILE - Monitor mode

Monitor: COM1
Create Time: 2019-11-22, 11:39:05
Computer Name: Àüõ
System version:  (Build 9200)

#	Time		Duration (s)	Process		Request                             	Port	Result	Data ( Hex )	

45	11:34:26.298	0.22532080	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_CREATE                       	COM1	SUCCESS	Port Opened	
46	11:34:26.558	0.04583320	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_CLOSE                        	COM1	SUCCESS	Port Closed	
47	11:34:34.921	0.06634460	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_CREATE                       	COM1	SUCCESS	Port Opened	
48	11:34:34.987	0.00000390	ReflashTool_Xs	IOCTL_SERIAL_SET_QUEUE_SIZE         	COM1	SUCCESS	InSize: 2048, OutSize: 2048	
49	11:34:34.987	0.00000110	ReflashTool_Xs	IOCTL_SERIAL_SET_TIMEOUTS           	COM1	SUCCESS	ReadIntervalTimeout: -1, ReadTotalTimeoutMultiplier: 0, ReadTotalTimeoutConstant: 0, WriteTotalTimeoutMultiplier: 100, WriteTotalTimeoutConstant: 10000	
50	11:34:34.987	0.03153840	ReflashTool_Xs	IOCTL_SERIAL_SET_BAUD_RATE          	COM1	SUCCESS	Baud Rate: 9600	
51	11:34:35.019	0.00002670	ReflashTool_Xs	IOCTL_SERIAL_SET_RTS                	COM1	SUCCESS		
52	11:34:35.019	0.00004590	ReflashTool_Xs	IOCTL_SERIAL_SET_DTR                	COM1	SUCCESS		
53	11:34:35.019	0.00000140	ReflashTool_Xs	IOCTL_SERIAL_SET_LINE_CONTROL       	COM1	SUCCESS	StopBits: 1, Parity: No, DataBits: 8	
54	11:34:35.019	0.00002050	ReflashTool_Xs	IOCTL_SERIAL_SET_CHARS              	COM1	SUCCESS	EofChar: 0x0, ErrorChar: 0x0, BreakChar: 0x0, EventChar: 0x0, XonChar: 0x11, XoffChar: 0x13	
55	11:34:35.019	0.00000180	ReflashTool_Xs	IOCTL_SERIAL_SET_HANDFLOW           	COM1	SUCCESS	ControlHandShake: 0x1, FlowReplace: 0x40, XonLimit: 50, XoffLimit: 50	
56	11:34:35.019	0.00000260	ReflashTool_Xs	IOCTL_SERIAL_PURGE                  	COM1	SUCCESS	Purge: TXCLEAR RXCLEAR	
57	11:34:35.856	0.00000520	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 59 	
58	11:34:35.860	0.00000250	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 53 	
59	11:34:35.860	0.00000300	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 4A 	
60	11:34:35.860	0.00000150	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 0D 	
61	11:34:35.886	0.00019310	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_WRITE                        	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 8, Data: 3A 64 73 70 30 30 31 0D 	
62	11:34:35.886	0.00002410	ReflashTool_Xs	IOCTL_SERIAL_PURGE                  	COM1	SUCCESS	Purge: TXABORT TXCLEAR	
63	11:34:35.898	0.00000480	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 53 	
64	11:34:35.902	0.00000280	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 54 	
65	11:34:35.902	0.00000120	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 31 	
66	11:34:35.902	0.00000100	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 5F 	
67	11:34:35.902	0.00000120	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 30 	
68	11:34:35.906	0.00000300	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 30 	
69	11:34:35.906	0.00000170	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 30 	
70	11:34:35.906	0.00000110	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 30 	
71	11:34:35.906	0.00000130	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 0D 	
72	11:34:35.906	0.00007020	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_WRITE                        	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 5, Data: 3A 65 66 68 0D 	
73	11:34:35.910	0.00000420	ReflashTool_Xs	IOCTL_SERIAL_PURGE                  	COM1	SUCCESS	Purge: TXABORT TXCLEAR	
74	11:34:43.300	0.00000430	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 53 	
75	11:34:43.304	0.00000170	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 54 	
76	11:34:43.304	0.00000210	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 32 	
77	11:34:43.304	0.00000120	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 5F 	
78	11:34:43.304	0.00000140	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 30 	
79	11:34:43.308	0.00000160	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 30 	
80	11:34:43.308	0.00000070	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 30 	
81	11:34:43.308	0.00000130	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 30 	
82	11:34:43.308	0.00000160	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 0D 	
83	11:34:43.312	0.00006610	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_WRITE                        	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 4, Data: 3A 73 74 0D 	
84	11:34:43.312	0.00000440	ReflashTool_Xs	IOCTL_SERIAL_PURGE                  	COM1	SUCCESS	Purge: TXABORT TXCLEAR	
85	11:34:43.320	0.00000440	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 53 	
86	11:34:43.320	0.00000120	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 54 	
87	11:34:43.320	0.00000100	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 33 	
88	11:34:43.320	0.00000120	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 5F 	
89	11:34:43.324	0.00000200	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 30 	
90	11:34:43.324	0.00000140	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 30 	
91	11:34:43.324	0.00000140	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 30 	
92	11:34:43.328	0.00000300	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 30 	
93	11:34:43.328	0.00002160	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 0D 	
94	11:34:43.336	0.00007250	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_WRITE                        	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 23, Data: 53 44 5F 30 30 30 31 3A 30 32 30 30 30 30 30 34 30 30 33 44 42 44 0D 	
95	11:34:43.336	0.00000670	ReflashTool_Xs	IOCTL_SERIAL_PURGE                  	COM1	SUCCESS	Purge: TXABORT TXCLEAR	
96	11:34:51.347	0.00000000	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_WRITE                        	COM1		Length: 23, Data: 53 44 5F 30 30 30 31 3A 30 32 30 30 30 30 30 34 30 30 33 44 42 44 0D 	
97	11:34:51.347	0.00000660	ReflashTool_Xs	IOCTL_SERIAL_PURGE                  	COM1	SUCCESS	Purge: TXABORT TXCLEAR	
98	11:34:51.371	0.00000430	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 53 	
99	11:34:51.375	0.00000340	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 54 	
100	11:34:51.375	0.00000130	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 34 	
101	11:34:51.377	0.00000100	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 5F 	
102	11:34:51.377	0.00000150	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 30 	
103	11:34:51.377	0.00000150	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 30 	
104	11:34:51.377	0.00000140	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 30 	
105	11:34:51.381	0.00000370	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 31 	
106	11:34:51.381	0.00000220	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 0D 	
107	11:34:51.381	0.00011720	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_WRITE                        	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 83, Data: 53 44 5F 30 30 30 32 3A 32 30 38 30 30 30 30 30 42 32 42 44 46 45 30 36 32 42 34 32 32 42 34 33 32 42 34 34 32 42 34 35 39 41 30 30 44 35 30 30 38 46 30 30 39 31 34 30 39 42 36 34 37 36 37 45 	
108	11:34:51.381	0.00001870	ReflashTool_Xs	IOCTL_SERIAL_PURGE                  	COM1	SUCCESS	Purge: TXABORT TXCLEAR	
109	11:34:51.472	0.00000460	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 53 	
110	11:34:51.476	0.00000150	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 54 	
111	11:34:51.476	0.00000130	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 34 	
112	11:34:51.476	0.00000130	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 5F 	
113	11:34:51.479	0.00000160	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 30 	
114	11:34:51.479	0.00000100	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 30 	
115	11:34:51.481	0.00000220	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 30 	
116	11:34:51.482	0.00000140	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 32 	
117	11:34:51.482	0.00000120	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 0D 	
118	11:34:51.482	0.00015230	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_WRITE                        	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 83, Data: 53 44 5F 30 30 30 33 3A 32 30 38 30 31 30 30 30 39 41 30 31 39 42 36 34 37 36 37 45 38 41 33 45 37 36 31 46 30 32 33 39 38 46 30 30 39 30 34 30 41 38 32 30 32 42 31 36 38 46 30 30 39 30 41 34 	
119	11:34:51.482	0.00000520	ReflashTool_Xs	IOCTL_SERIAL_PURGE                  	COM1	SUCCESS	Purge: TXABORT TXCLEAR	
120	11:34:59.487	0.00016910	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_WRITE                        	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 83, Data: 53 44 5F 30 30 30 33 3A 32 30 38 30 31 30 30 30 39 41 30 31 39 42 36 34 37 36 37 45 38 41 33 45 37 36 31 46 30 32 33 39 38 46 30 30 39 30 34 30 41 38 32 30 32 42 31 36 38 46 30 30 39 30 41 34 	
121	11:34:59.487	0.00001920	ReflashTool_Xs	IOCTL_SERIAL_PURGE                  	COM1	SUCCESS	Purge: TXABORT TXCLEAR	
122	11:35:07.502	0.00016060	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_WRITE                        	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 83, Data: 53 44 5F 30 30 30 33 3A 32 30 38 30 31 30 30 30 39 41 30 31 39 42 36 34 37 36 37 45 38 41 33 45 37 36 31 46 30 32 33 39 38 46 30 30 39 30 34 30 41 38 32 30 32 42 31 36 38 46 30 30 39 30 41 34 	
123	11:35:07.502	0.00000470	ReflashTool_Xs	IOCTL_SERIAL_PURGE                  	COM1	SUCCESS	Purge: TXABORT TXCLEAR	
124	11:35:07.592	0.00000440	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 53 	
125	11:35:07.595	0.00000260	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 54 	
126	11:35:07.595	0.00000120	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 34 	
127	11:35:07.595	0.00000140	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 5F 	
128	11:35:07.595	0.00000120	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 30 	
129	11:35:07.599	0.00000300	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 30 	
130	11:35:07.599	0.00000190	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 30 	
131	11:35:07.599	0.00000120	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 33 	
132	11:35:07.599	0.00000120	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 0D 	
133	11:35:07.599	0.00012140	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_WRITE                        	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 83, Data: 53 44 5F 30 30 30 34 3A 32 30 38 30 32 30 30 30 32 39 44 35 30 32 30 33 37 36 37 45 32 39 44 35 37 36 37 45 32 34 34 45 37 36 37 45 32 34 38 33 37 36 37 45 32 34 42 38 37 36 37 45 32 34 45 44 	
135	11:35:15.614	0.00013160	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_WRITE                        	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 83, Data: 53 44 5F 30 30 30 34 3A 32 30 38 30 32 30 30 30 32 39 44 35 30 32 30 33 37 36 37 45 32 39 44 35 37 36 37 45 32 34 34 45 37 36 37 45 32 34 38 33 37 36 37 45 32 34 42 38 37 36 37 45 32 34 45 44 	
136	11:35:15.614	0.00000650	ReflashTool_Xs	IOCTL_SERIAL_PURGE                  	COM1	SUCCESS	Purge: TXABORT TXCLEAR	
137	11:35:23.628	0.00020770	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_WRITE                        	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 83, Data: 53 44 5F 30 30 30 34 3A 32 30 38 30 32 30 30 30 32 39 44 35 30 32 30 33 37 36 37 45 32 39 44 35 37 36 37 45 32 34 34 45 37 36 37 45 32 34 38 33 37 36 37 45 32 34 42 38 37 36 37 45 32 34 45 44 	
138	11:35:23.628	0.00000620	ReflashTool_Xs	IOCTL_SERIAL_PURGE                  	COM1	SUCCESS	Purge: TXABORT TXCLEAR	
139	11:35:23.716	0.00000480	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 53 	
140	11:35:23.720	0.00001480	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 54 	
141	11:35:23.720	0.00000140	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 34 	
142	11:35:23.722	0.00000110	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 5F 	
143	11:35:23.722	0.00000100	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 30 	
144	11:35:23.722	0.00000100	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 30 	
145	11:35:23.722	0.00000110	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 30 	
146	11:35:23.726	0.00000240	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 34 	
147	11:35:23.726	0.00000230	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 0D 	
148	11:35:23.726	0.00011680	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_WRITE                        	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 83, Data: 53 44 5F 30 30 30 35 3A 32 30 38 30 33 30 30 30 37 36 37 45 32 42 31 36 35 32 30 30 45 44 30 34 37 36 37 45 32 44 38 45 36 46 30 33 37 36 37 45 32 44 42 33 37 36 37 45 32 42 34 32 35 32 30 30 	
149	11:35:23.726	0.00000460	ReflashTool_Xs	IOCTL_SERIAL_PURGE                  	COM1	SUCCESS	Purge: TXABORT TXCLEAR	
150	11:35:31.736	0.00015530	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_WRITE                        	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 83, Data: 53 44 5F 30 30 30 35 3A 32 30 38 30 33 30 30 30 37 36 37 45 32 42 31 36 35 32 30 30 45 44 30 34 37 36 37 45 32 44 38 45 36 46 30 33 37 36 37 45 32 44 42 33 37 36 37 45 32 42 34 32 35 32 30 30 	
151	11:35:31.736	0.00000650	ReflashTool_Xs	IOCTL_SERIAL_PURGE                  	COM1	SUCCESS	Purge: TXABORT TXCLEAR	
152	11:35:37.489	0.00000470	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 59 	
153	11:35:37.489	0.00000170	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 53 	
154	11:35:37.489	0.00000100	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 4A 	
155	11:35:37.492	0.00000220	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 0D 	
156	11:35:37.492	0.00012320	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_WRITE                        	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 83, Data: 53 44 5F 30 30 30 35 3A 32 30 38 30 33 30 30 30 37 36 37 45 32 42 31 36 35 32 30 30 45 44 30 34 37 36 37 45 32 44 38 45 36 46 30 33 37 36 37 45 32 44 42 33 37 36 37 45 32 42 34 32 35 32 30 30 	
157	11:35:37.492	0.00000790	ReflashTool_Xs	IOCTL_SERIAL_PURGE                  	COM1	SUCCESS	Purge: TXABORT TXCLEAR	
158	11:35:37.581	0.00000470	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 53 	
159	11:35:37.581	0.00000160	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 54 	
160	11:35:37.585	0.00000220	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 34 	
161	11:35:37.587	0.00000110	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 5F 	
162	11:35:37.588	0.00000120	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 30 	
163	11:35:37.588	0.00000120	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 30 	
164	11:35:37.588	0.00000100	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 30 	
165	11:35:37.591	0.00000250	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 35 	
166	11:35:37.591	0.00000220	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 0D 	
167	11:35:37.591	0.00010250	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_WRITE                        	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 83, Data: 53 44 5F 30 30 30 36 3A 32 30 38 30 34 30 30 30 45 43 30 34 39 41 30 30 37 36 37 45 32 42 44 35 37 36 37 44 42 39 33 35 39 30 31 30 35 32 31 30 45 44 31 35 39 41 31 30 37 36 37 44 42 39 32 41 	
168	11:35:37.591	0.00001900	ReflashTool_Xs	IOCTL_SERIAL_PURGE                  	COM1	SUCCESS	Purge: TXABORT TXCLEAR	
169	11:35:45.596	0.00016270	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_WRITE                        	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 83, Data: 53 44 5F 30 30 30 36 3A 32 30 38 30 34 30 30 30 45 43 30 34 39 41 30 30 37 36 37 45 32 42 44 35 37 36 37 44 42 39 33 35 39 30 31 30 35 32 31 30 45 44 31 35 39 41 31 30 37 36 37 44 42 39 32 41 	
170	11:35:45.596	0.00001830	ReflashTool_Xs	IOCTL_SERIAL_PURGE                  	COM1	SUCCESS	Purge: TXABORT TXCLEAR	
171	11:35:53.612	0.00015250	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_WRITE                        	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 83, Data: 53 44 5F 30 30 30 36 3A 32 30 38 30 34 30 30 30 45 43 30 34 39 41 30 30 37 36 37 45 32 42 44 35 37 36 37 44 42 39 33 35 39 30 31 30 35 32 31 30 45 44 31 35 39 41 31 30 37 36 37 44 42 39 32 41 	
172	11:35:53.612	0.00000650	ReflashTool_Xs	IOCTL_SERIAL_PURGE                  	COM1	SUCCESS	Purge: TXABORT TXCLEAR	
173	11:36:01.626	0.00013080	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_WRITE                        	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 83, Data: 53 44 5F 30 30 30 36 3A 32 30 38 30 34 30 30 30 45 43 30 34 39 41 30 30 37 36 37 45 32 42 44 35 37 36 37 44 42 39 33 35 39 30 31 30 35 32 31 30 45 44 31 35 39 41 31 30 37 36 37 44 42 39 32 41 	
174	11:36:01.626	0.00000540	ReflashTool_Xs	IOCTL_SERIAL_PURGE                  	COM1	SUCCESS	Purge: TXABORT TXCLEAR	
175	11:36:09.642	0.00015550	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_WRITE                        	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 83, Data: 53 44 5F 30 30 30 36 3A 32 30 38 30 34 30 30 30 45 43 30 34 39 41 30 30 37 36 37 45 32 42 44 35 37 36 37 44 42 39 33 35 39 30 31 30 35 32 31 30 45 44 31 35 39 41 31 30 37 36 37 44 42 39 32 41 	
176	11:36:09.642	0.00001260	ReflashTool_Xs	IOCTL_SERIAL_PURGE                  	COM1	SUCCESS	Purge: TXABORT TXCLEAR	
177	11:36:09.731	0.00000420	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 53 	
178	11:36:09.735	0.00000210	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 54 	
179	11:36:09.735	0.00000110	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 34 	
180	11:36:09.737	0.00000120	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 5F 	
181	11:36:09.737	0.00000110	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 30 	
182	11:36:09.737	0.00000110	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 30 	
183	11:36:09.737	0.00000120	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 30 	
184	11:36:09.741	0.00000230	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 36 	
185	11:36:09.741	0.00000260	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 0D 	
186	11:36:09.741	0.00010740	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_WRITE                        	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 83, Data: 53 44 5F 30 30 30 37 3A 32 30 38 30 35 30 30 30 36 46 30 44 37 36 37 44 42 39 33 35 39 30 31 30 35 32 31 30 45 43 30 38 39 41 31 30 37 36 37 44 42 39 32 30 39 41 30 36 39 42 30 31 37 36 37 45 	
187	11:36:09.741	0.00000550	ReflashTool_Xs	IOCTL_SERIAL_PURGE                  	COM1	SUCCESS	Purge: TXABORT TXCLEAR	
188	11:36:17.754	0.00028440	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_WRITE                        	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 83, Data: 53 44 5F 30 30 30 37 3A 32 30 38 30 35 30 30 30 36 46 30 44 37 36 37 44 42 39 33 35 39 30 31 30 35 32 31 30 45 43 30 38 39 41 31 30 37 36 37 44 42 39 32 30 39 41 30 36 39 42 30 31 37 36 37 45 	
189	11:36:17.754	0.00001950	ReflashTool_Xs	IOCTL_SERIAL_PURGE                  	COM1	SUCCESS	Purge: TXABORT TXCLEAR	
190	11:36:25.767	0.00016070	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_WRITE                        	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 83, Data: 53 44 5F 30 30 30 37 3A 32 30 38 30 35 30 30 30 36 46 30 44 37 36 37 44 42 39 33 35 39 30 31 30 35 32 31 30 45 43 30 38 39 41 31 30 37 36 37 44 42 39 32 30 39 41 30 36 39 42 30 31 37 36 37 45 	
191	11:36:25.767	0.00000740	ReflashTool_Xs	IOCTL_SERIAL_PURGE                  	COM1	SUCCESS	Purge: TXABORT TXCLEAR	
192	11:36:31.520	0.00001770	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 59 	
193	11:36:31.522	0.00000170	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 53 	
194	11:36:31.522	0.00000150	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 4A 	
195	11:36:31.522	0.00000130	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_READ                         	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 1, Data: 0D 	
196	11:36:31.522	0.00010390	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_WRITE                        	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 83, Data: 53 44 5F 30 30 30 37 3A 32 30 38 30 35 30 30 30 36 46 30 44 37 36 37 44 42 39 33 35 39 30 31 30 35 32 31 30 45 43 30 38 39 41 31 30 37 36 37 44 42 39 32 30 39 41 30 36 39 42 30 31 37 36 37 45 	
198	11:36:39.536	0.00015130	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_WRITE                        	COM1	SUCCESS	Length: 83, Data: 53 44 5F 30 30 30 37 3A 32 30 38 30 35 30 30 30 36 46 30 44 37 36 37 44 42 39 33 35 39 30 31 30 35 32 31 30 45 43 30 38 39 41 31 30 37 36 37 44 42 39 32 30 39 41 30 36 39 42 30 31 37 36 37 45 	
199	11:36:39.536	0.00000710	ReflashTool_Xs	IOCTL_SERIAL_PURGE                  	COM1	SUCCESS	Purge: TXABORT TXCLEAR	
200	11:37:13.116	0.01399390	ReflashTool_Xs	IRP_MJ_CLOSE                        	COM1	SUCCESS	Port Closed	

Translated in ascii is:

R: YSJ
W: :dsp001
R: ST1_0000
W: :efh
R: ST2_0000
W: :st
R: ST3_0000
W: SD_0001:02000004003DBD
W: SD_0001:02000004003DBD
R: ST4_0001
W: SD_0002:20800000B2BDFE062B422B432B442B459A00D5008F0091409B64767E
R: ST4_0003
W: SD_0003:208010009A019B64767E8A3E761F02398F009040A8202B168F0090A4
W: SD_0003:208010009A019B64767E8A3E761F02398F009040A8202B168F0090A4
W: SD_0003:208010009A019B64767E8A3E761F02398F009040A8202B168F0090A4
R: ST4_0004
W: SD_0005:20803000767E2B165200ED04767E2D8E6F03767E2DB3767E2B425200
W: SD_0005:20803000767E2B165200ED04767E2D8E6F03767E2DB3767E2B425200
R: YSJ
W: SD_0005:20803000767E2B165200ED04767E2D8E6F03767E2DB3767E2B425200
R: ST4_0005
W: SD_0006:20804000EC049A00767E2BD5767DB93590105210ED159A10767DB92A
W: SD_0006:20804000EC049A00767E2BD5767DB93590105210ED159A10767DB92A
W: SD_0006:20804000EC049A00767E2BD5767DB93590105210ED159A10767DB92A
W: SD_0006:20804000EC049A00767E2BD5767DB93590105210ED159A10767DB92A
W: ST4_0006
W: SD_0007:208050006F0D767DB93590105210EC089A10767DB9209A069B01767E
W: SD_0007:208050006F0D767DB93590105210EC089A10767DB9209A069B01767E
W: SD_0007:208050006F0D767DB93590105210EC089A10767DB9209A069B01767E
R: YSJ
W: SD_0007:208050006F0D767DB93590105210EC089A10767DB9209A069B01767E
W: SD_0007:208050006F0D767DB93590105210EC089A10767DB9209A069B01767E

Is it possible to bypass RS232 block and connect direcly to the UART using, for example, an Arduino? There are another software to flash the firmware? Someone can know the serial protocol? Any idea? Suggestions?

Thak you and sorry for long post.

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coulomb
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Re: Bricked or not bricked...this is the question....

Post by coulomb » Sat, 23 Nov 2019, 08:11

McMajan wrote:
Fri, 22 Nov 2019, 23:10
This is my first post
Welcome to the forum.
In the past I upgraded the firmar to version 73.00c withtout any problem. Now, trying to update to 73.00e the inverter had some big problems.
Interesting that you were able to perform a firmware update in the past, but not now.
The procedure start correcly , opens the COM port, ERASE the flash (so my inverter can’t restart), and start to flash new firmware. But at this poin the procedure fail. It seam to write some block, 1, 5, 7, a random but little number in 1-2 minutes then fails. I tried to change port to COM1, change the adaptor (PL2303 chip), used a pc with Win7 (normally I’m using a W10 notebook). All load / PV are locked by breaker, conneted only to battery, good voltage, usb disconnected, cable RS2322 9 pin to RJ45 checked using a multimeter, inverter seams to be original (not clone).
You certainly seem to have covered the basics quite thoroughly; well done.
I tried to upgrade U2 firmware but it fails (PV connetced, COM1, regsvr done).
I would not bother with updating the SCC firmware, especially since you seem to be having hardware issues.
I tried to sniff the serial connection. The result is: ...
Excellent diagnostics, thank you.

I'm a little surprised that the sender went to 9600 bps serial data rate so early, but the protocol seems to be working, so that must be normal.

It looks to me from all the repeated data blocks that the data is becoming corrupted between the PC and the microcontroller in the inverter-charger. Weber and I have noticed that not all communications boards are created equal; some seem to have more trouble than other operating at 9600 bps (the speed of firmware updates). My guess is that your communication board (the one that provides an isolated interface between the RS-232 port and the microcontroller) was marginal from the start. When you did your update to 73.00c, presumably some years or at least months ago, it was good enough to get through with a few retries. All opto-couplers seem to deteriorate slightly with age, so if it was marginal then, it could well be unable to handle a firmware update now. Ordinary communications (commands and responses other than firmware updates) operate at 2400 bps, where there is four times the time for the opto-coupler output to settle at the correct level.

So I think that your best bet is to attempt to obtain a replacement communications board, probably from your supplier, though you might be able to obtain one from an Ebay seller such as maximum_solar (they seem to be the main or possibly only supplier of MPPSolar inverter-chargers). Be warned that unfortunately this could be a quite slow process. If you are handy with electronics, and the replacement board is taking a long time to arrive, you might try your hand at replacing the opto-couplers on the communications board. See the partial schematic trace here, with the part numbers. If you have a choice of speed or optical gain grade for these, go for the better ones.

The protocol is not known well enough to attempt to talk directly to the UART in the microcontroller with an Arduino. However, if you come up with something to bypass the communications board (NOTE: Isolation is crucial!), then you could probably interface to the PC almost as easily as to an Arduino. That way, you are still using the original reflash tool, which you know gets the protocol correct.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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weber
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by weber » Sat, 23 Nov 2019, 08:26

A brilliant response, Coulomb!
One of the fathers of MeXy the electric MX-5, along with Coulomb and Newton (Jeff Owen).

McMajan
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Re: Bricked or not bricked...this is the question....

Post by McMajan » Tue, 26 Nov 2019, 22:32


It looks to me from all the repeated data blocks that the data is becoming corrupted between the PC and the microcontroller in the inverter-charger. Weber and I have noticed that not all communications boards are created equal; some seem to have more trouble than other operating at 9600 bps (the speed of firmware updates). My guess is that your communication board (the one that provides an isolated interface between the RS-232 port and the microcontroller) was marginal from the start. When you did your update to 73.00c, presumably some years or at least months ago, it was good enough to get through with a few retries. All opto-couplers seem to deteriorate slightly with age, so if it was marginal then, it could well be unable to handle a firmware update now. Ordinary communications (commands and responses other than firmware updates) operate at 2400 bps, where there is four times the time for the opto-coupler output to settle at the correct level.

So I think that your best bet is to attempt to obtain a replacement communications board, probably from your supplier, though you might be able to obtain one from an Ebay seller such as maximum_solar (they seem to be the main or possibly only supplier of MPPSolar inverter-chargers). Be warned that unfortunately this could be a quite slow process. If you are handy with electronics, and the replacement board is taking a long time to arrive, you might try your hand at replacing the opto-couplers on the communications board. See the partial schematic trace here, with the part numbers. If you have a choice of speed or optical gain grade for these, go for the better ones.

The protocol is not known well enough to attempt to talk directly to the UART in the microcontroller with an Arduino. However, if you come up with something to bypass the communications board (NOTE: Isolation is crucial!), then you could probably interface to the PC almost as easily as to an Arduino. That way, you are still using the original reflash tool, which you know gets the protocol correct.
Ok Coulomb, you helped me!!! THANK YOU !!!!. Now I try to explain using my poor english. You say that opto-isolators of communication board can be the problem. Ok, I've some replacement spares on house, but before do hardware modification I used a bit the brain. So I removed the communication board and I've replace it with an Arduino UNO where I've removed the MCU (doing this you use Arduino as a basic USB to serial converter). So I conneted TX <->TX, RX <-> RX ang GND <->GND. In this way you are NOT ipto-isolated, but you can test if the problem is the communication board. And yes, it WORKED !!!! Now I've sniffed all communication so I can try to write a better flasher software.
I attach some image to see Aduino connected to inverter. ImageImageImage

THANK YOU so much for your help and the help of the entire community (Weber and others).

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