PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb » Sat, 15 Jun 2019, 20:19

paulvk wrote:
Sat, 15 Jun 2019, 19:58
Its a clone because its made in China my ones are made in Taiwan MPP Solar are in Taiwan .
MPPSolar and the R&D section of Voltronic Power are in Taiwan. The machines are manufactured in mainland China by Voltronic Power. 90% of their work force is in mainland China.

Some stickers have "Taiwan Design", some "Made in China", some (like my own MPPSolar model) have neither. It's not consistent, unfortunately, especially with customised stickers.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, PIP-4048MS inverter, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by paulvk » Sat, 15 Jun 2019, 20:20

The post is titled "Do I Own a Clone?" it tries to help identify them.

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by paulvk » Sat, 15 Jun 2019, 20:27

My batteries are getting old (7 years young) so been looking at alternatives coulomb can we get the voltage up to 66v for charging I still have one of my one in bits and I have 80v fets I can only see the 63v caps as a problem so change them. The reason is alkaline batteries need 66v.

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb » Sat, 15 Jun 2019, 20:32

paulvk wrote:
Sat, 15 Jun 2019, 20:27
can we get the voltage up to 66v for charging ...
There are other problems. The main one is that the bus voltage is mostly tied to a multiple of the battery voltage; for the 58.4 V models it was 8:1 (I assume that they use a smaller ratio for the 64 V models). So 66 V would push the bus voltage too high, and there is lots of code to stabilise the bus voltage, that I would not want to touch.

Sorry.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, PIP-4048MS inverter, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by paulvk » Sat, 15 Jun 2019, 20:38

Was a thought ! Might have to get the 64v ones in that case, looking at NiFe as I have the grid just use the inverters to limit its use I can do more and deeper cycles with NiFe without the worry of wearing them out.

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by DanoP » Thu, 20 Jun 2019, 16:38

mirceaalex001 wrote:
Thu, 24 May 2018, 14:34
My problem is that at night , the scc stays on , because somehow i get voltage on the scc coils ( driver 1 , driver 2 ) And i need a setting that will cut scc at higher voltage ( i have like 2volts + the battery voltage all the time on the pv input ,when the scc relay is connected ).If i change charging settings at night , and the relay disengage , evreything is ok untill next morning (The pv input voltage disapear )
Since 3 weeks ago I have same problem (PIP 4048MS) like mirceaalex001 describes. Night is coming but SCC do not go off. Instead is showing on PV input same voltage as is on battery (and there really is, but not coming from panels). When SCC is forced to restart than it is ok till next morning. I disconnect PV array, but it is same.
Did you find reason for that behaviour and solution?

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by DanoP » Fri, 21 Jun 2019, 04:52

Additional info - SCC board measures wrong (higher) PV voltage. With disconnected PV array there is on PV input 53V (same as on battery) but SCC reads 55V (shown on LCD).
In QPIGS SCC reports battery voltage 52.95V, so at least measurement of battery voltage is OK, and in measuremnt of PV is some error in divider or AD.
Because PV voltage (55V) is higher than UBat (53V) it stays on.

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by Tejota » Wed, 26 Jun 2019, 00:24

Hi folks...

A question? What means error 72 on parallel setup ? Manual says : current sharing fault

Restart units solves problem but why happen? parallel setup has got few watts on load when error 72 started, about 100 Watts per unit more less.

Regards.

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by weber » Wed, 26 Jun 2019, 06:41

Hi @Tejota, I can only guess that maybe there is an intermittent bad connection on one of the current-sharing cables -- the twisted pairs of wires going into the green plugs. With the loads disconnected, or in bypass mode ([01]=uti), you could try pulling gently on each wire where it enters its plug, and tighten the clamping screws on any that move. You could also try unplugging each plug from the inverter and reinserting it, to remove possible contamination from between the contacts.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb » Wed, 26 Jun 2019, 06:48

Tejota wrote:
Wed, 26 Jun 2019, 00:24
Restart units solves problem but why happen?
Have you checked the current sharing cables? (The wire pairs that terminate in small green plugs). These have been known to work loose (or were loose from the start but only played up long after installation), and have caused this error in the past. Another user had a loose neutral wire on one of the inverters' AC output terminals. Obviously the live wire could do the same thing.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, PIP-4048MS inverter, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by Tejota » Mon, 01 Jul 2019, 21:38

coulomb wrote:
Wed, 26 Jun 2019, 06:48
Tejota wrote:
Wed, 26 Jun 2019, 00:24
Restart units solves problem but why happen?
Have you checked the current sharing cables? (The wire pairs that terminate in small green plugs). These have been known to work loose (or were loose from the start but only played up long after installation), and have caused this error in the past. Another user had a loose neutral wire on one of the inverters' AC output terminals. Obviously the live wire could do the same thing.
Yes. I rechecked all sharing cables. Everything is correct. Now is fault 80 (CAN data loss). Perhaps a board parallel is faulting ?

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb » Mon, 01 Jul 2019, 22:07

Tejota wrote:
Mon, 01 Jul 2019, 21:38
Perhaps a board parallel is faulting ?
Yes. Or it could be a CAN cable.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, PIP-4048MS inverter, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by Tejota » Tue, 02 Jul 2019, 04:59

coulomb wrote:
Mon, 01 Jul 2019, 22:07
Tejota wrote:
Mon, 01 Jul 2019, 21:38
Perhaps a board parallel is faulting ?
Yes. Or it could be a CAN cable.
WTF... But which one? I think fault board throw error 80 the first, after the others?? Is it correct?

CAN cable is very difficult to fault.

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by weber » Tue, 02 Jul 2019, 08:13

You could try unplugging and replugging the internal cables that connect between the parallel board and the main board and control board.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb » Tue, 02 Jul 2019, 21:22

Tejota wrote:
Tue, 02 Jul 2019, 04:59
But which one? I think fault board throw error 80 the first, after the others?? Is it correct?
I don't think you can tell much from which machine reports the error. It could be due to:
  • a master that is complaining about the loss of communication with what used to be an active slave, or
  • a new machine (not yet allocated to be a master or a slave) that doesn't get a signal on GPIO21 in 1000 ticks (4 seconds), or
  • a slave that similarly doesn't see the GPIO21 signal in 4 seconds.
There are probably extra conditions around the last two dot points generating a CAN fault error.

In any case, it could be a faulty sender or a faulty receiver; I don't think the firmware can tell.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, PIP-4048MS inverter, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by Greendrake » Sun, 07 Jul 2019, 12:34

coulomb wrote:
Sun, 09 Jun 2019, 21:02
It's also entirely possible that you can't update anything at all. You may have early versions of the clones that later came with patched firmware 72.70c (lead acid flavour), but could not update firmware because they don't have a bootstrap loader.
The flash tool crashes when I try to push new firmware via COM3 port (this is the port that my USB2COM adapter populates). It waits a few seconds after start and crashes (in contrast, when disconnected from the inverter it simply tells cannot open port). Happens with both 72.70c and 73.00e, on both Windows 7 and XP. Here is the debug info:
Problem signature:
Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
Application Name: ReflashTool_Xseries.exe
Application Version: 1.0.0.1
Application Timestamp: 56173aa5
Fault Module Name: ntdll.dll
Fault Module Version: 6.1.7601.23915
Fault Module Timestamp: 59b94a7d
Exception Code: c0000005
Exception Offset: 0001f94d
OS Version: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.48
Locale ID: 5129
Additional Information 1: abcc
Additional Information 2: abcc8f7853b48d9807d6d51eb1fa5df9
Additional Information 3: abcc
Additional Information 4: abcc8f7853b48d9807d6d51eb1fa5df9
What would that mean? That the inverter cannot be flashed? Maybe I could try some sort of low-level command-line tool to push the firmware in it?

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by paulvk » Sun, 07 Jul 2019, 15:23

Tejota
Have you tried each inverter on its own not connected as parallel ?

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb » Sun, 07 Jul 2019, 16:07

Greendrake wrote:
Sun, 07 Jul 2019, 12:34
The flash tool crashes... What would that mean?
That's a new one on me. All I can think of is something unexpected about your setup: perhaps a very long path to the folder with the ReflashTool, or UTF characters in the path, that sort of thing. I doubt it's had time to actually open the dsp.hex file yet, but I guess it's possible. I suppose you could have a bad sector on your hard drive and/or the hex file became corrupted somehow. It should display as ordinary text, all hexadecimal characters apart from a single colon at the start of every line. Almost every line should have the exact same length. So it might be possible to identify a corrupted hex file, though two being corrupted seems unlikely, unless it's your unzipping tool. I suppose the ReflashTool itself or one of its DLLs could be corrupted. So try again in a different folder perhaps.

Edit : there is no real alternative to running the ReflashTool. There are handshakes and changes of comms speed that proclude the use of any kind of command line tool. I suppose it's possible that the inverter is sending back unexpected responses that is causing the crash, but that seems unlikely.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, PIP-4048MS inverter, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by Tejota » Mon, 08 Jul 2019, 23:22

paulvk wrote:
Sun, 07 Jul 2019, 15:23
Tejota
Have you tried each inverter on its own not connected as parallel ?
I dont understand what you say.
I have changed parallel boards and can wires. Error 80 goes on. Then, problem is inside inverters. Hardware o Software??
I have noticed that error 80 goes when hot conditions are present (Temp inv about 50ºC).
For 3 days error 80 is gone because I changed Master unit to slave unit and viceversa obviouosly.
I will wait several days in this conditions MS-SL.

Regards.

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by T-Man » Tue, 09 Jul 2019, 00:38

Hi
Can anyone tell me if firmware 73.00e has parameter "39 Equalization activated immediately" functionality?
The inverter currently has 72.40 on it and I would like to upgrade it.

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by weber » Tue, 09 Jul 2019, 08:07

T-Man wrote:
Tue, 09 Jul 2019, 00:38
Hi
Can anyone tell me if firmware 73.00e has parameter "39 Equalization activated immediately" functionality?
The inverter currently has 72.40 on it and I would like to upgrade it.
No. 73.00e does not have parameter 39. It does not have any of the parameters relating to equalisation, because the factory firmware 73.00 does not have them. As far as I know, there is no firmware for the 4 kW PF 0.8 machines that has equalisation. It is only on the 5 kW PF 1 machines.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by Greendrake » Wed, 10 Jul 2019, 19:38

coulomb wrote:
Sun, 07 Jul 2019, 16:07
I suppose it's possible that the inverter is sending back unexpected responses that is causing the crash, but that seems unlikely.
That was probably the case as the inverter had other cables plugged in (parallel comms, USB). So I unplugged all those, rebooted the inverter and tried again. Progress! The flash tool appeared to be ready to start flashing and the inverter made a sound as if it switched a contactor. But then it just got stuck here for ages:

IMG_20190710_230350.jpg
IMG_20190710_230350.jpg (256.44 KiB) Viewed 355 times
I tried it twice. Thankfully, the inverter was not bricked and after rebooting appears unmodified.

Does that sound like there is no bootstrapper and therefore firmware update is not possible?

Thanks muchly!

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb » Wed, 10 Jul 2019, 21:54

Greendrake wrote:
Wed, 10 Jul 2019, 19:38
Does that sound like there is no bootstrapper and therefore firmware update is not possible?
Sadly, yes it does. You do have a clone with the '¢' instead of 'ϕ' on the sticker with the bar-code, and those clones tend to not have a bootstrap loader, according to my notes. It seems that you can obtain a replacement control board that fixes this issue, but I have no idea how hard it is to get, or who pays what, or if it really fixes the problem.

[ Edit: Removed question about clone status. ]
[ Edit: Removed reference to 72.70c ]
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, PIP-4048MS inverter, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by paulvk » Wed, 31 Jul 2019, 17:57

New standard coming
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gl0mBaX ... e=youtu.be

On another note I have now a NiFe battery, hopefully the last battery I will have to buy for this system but may have to get two new inverters so I can get to 1.65v per cell 64 volts is very close for 39 cells so can the 64 volt version be set to bulk at 64 volts ?

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb » Thu, 01 Aug 2019, 07:33

paulvk wrote:
Wed, 31 Jul 2019, 17:57
New standard coming
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gl0mBaX ... e=youtu.be
Wow! That's a big change to AS5139 for battery standards. PIP systems with their 115 V PV (or higher) will no longer be exempt from LV standards, so they'll need earth leakage detection, battery terminal covers, and so on.
On another note I have now a NiFe battery, hopefully the last battery I will have to buy for this system but may have to get two new inverters so I can get to 1.65v per cell 64 volts is very close for 39 cells so can the 64 volt version be set to bulk at 64 volts ?
Yes, the 64 V models can all set the bulk voltage to 64 V. The nickel iron chemistry has such a wide voltage range (1.0 to 1.65 V), so it becomes awkward to work with.

I note that battery voltages above 60 V becomes DVC B per the new AS5139 standard, which may have implications, although the whole system will be deemed DBC B already if you have more than 1S panels connected.

[ Edit: "terminal covers" → "battery terminal covers"; "PIPs" → "PIP systems" ]
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, PIP-4048MS inverter, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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