PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

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offgridQLD
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PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 15 Nov 2016, 23:46

They look like the terminal posts to me .

Edit: Yes mpp solar eBay
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Post by coulomb » Wed, 16 Nov 2016, 15:46

Tjadenw wrote: Do you know what the adjustment's on the SCC are for ?
I assume you mean the red circles, not the blue arrows.

Sorry, no idea. We didn't reverse engineer the SCC, except to the tiny extent required to figure out what the relays were doing.

We were interested in what is commoned to what input to output, so we could sensibly measure the PV voltage. Presumably to disconnect the PV on the rare cold sunny morning with a 3S PV panel configuration. We don't even do that now (attempt to measure the PV voltage).

I don't think there is much chance of doing anything useful by tweaking them.
Last edited by coulomb on Wed, 16 Nov 2016, 04:47, edited 1 time in total.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Post by paulvk » Wed, 16 Nov 2016, 16:10

It would have been nice if the SCCs were 80amps instead of 60 because during winter you need more panels to get the amps needed but in summer you can not use them due to the 60amp limit.
One thought I have is to find the current sense component and change it to fool the system after looking at fet current specs.

Now an observation on the operation of the standard firmware
The setting to go back to grid reacts too fast to the set voltage eg you put the kettle on to boil water when close to the set voltage and it goes back, it is like the charge problem not waiting long enough.
Next time when the firmware is worked on if you can see this variable could a time limit be added of say 5 to 8 mins so short term heavy loads do not trigger it prematurely.

Also if I can help you guys in any way let me know!
Note my warranty is up at the end of the year so then I will load your up dated firmware.

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Post by andys » Wed, 16 Nov 2016, 16:21

I've connected 4.3kW (rated) panels to my system due to winter/cloud needs.

During cloud-burst activity on cold days, I sometimes see the output rise to a peak of 4.5kW, and the PIP keeps going, even for 10 to 15 seconds.

I didn't expect performance like this.. I wonder if I am risking any damage.

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Post by andys » Wed, 16 Nov 2016, 16:24

Addendum:

During this peak time, the query command reads 80 amps at 80 volts. Which makes no sense, so I assume something is limiting the output to the rated (4kW) with ~10% leeway.

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Post by paulvk » Wed, 16 Nov 2016, 18:25

When I had one PIP and the 24 panels the maximum charge was 61 amps this would go for about one hour or so even if I set the charge to 80 amps so the SCC has to be limiting this.
With the two in parallel I have had up to 85 amps and average 76 amps I will in the future have 18 panels for each PIP this should give a constant 60 amps per unit, due to the de-rating of output of panels with temperature I get 185 to 195 watts per panel (average 185 in summer)

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Post by coulomb » Wed, 16 Nov 2016, 18:28

andys wrote: During this peak time, the query command reads 80 amps at 80 volts. Which makes no sense...

No, you have to remember that it measures the 80 V at the input and the 80 A at the output. So that would be 80 A times say 56 V (guessed battery voltage) for a product of 4,480 W.

Edit: so that's around 60 A at the input. There are models with 80 A of rated output; perhaps yours is one of them?
Last edited by coulomb on Wed, 16 Nov 2016, 07:34, edited 1 time in total.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Post by andys » Wed, 16 Nov 2016, 20:04

coulomb wrote: No, you have to remember that it measures the 80 V at the input and the 80 A at the output.


Thats right - Thanks. So I guess its still within spec for current.

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Post by Tjadenw » Sat, 19 Nov 2016, 00:23

paulvk wrote: One thought I have is to find the current sense component and change it to fool the system after looking at fet current specs.


I also Had the thought of doing this to fool the amp sense also with voltage.

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Post by Solar Junky » Sat, 19 Nov 2016, 10:12


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Post by vast » Sun, 20 Nov 2016, 07:06

Hello to everyone from Romania.

My system is:
- inverter/charger: PIP4048MS - 80A charger (bought in March)
- panels: 20x185W = 3700Wp Sharp NU-S5E3E
- battery: 16s LiFePO4 Sinopoly 100Ah

Which are the best setup for this inverter?

I setup in menu #26 (Bulk) and #27 (Float): 54.5V and #29 (Low DC cut-off voltage): 48V. But how to setup in menu #12 (Setting voltage point back to utility source when selecting "SBU priority" or "Solar first" in program 01) and #13 (Setting voltage point back to battery mode when selecting "SBU priority" or "Solar first" in program 01)?
Mention: I don't have utility source.

Something in menu which I don't like: software don't have setup for Absorb and Absorb time.

A friend tell me that PCM60X (MPPT) have in menu Absorb and Absorb time, but don't have Bulk.


Regards,
Valentin
Last edited by vast on Sun, 20 Nov 2016, 02:16, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Tjadenw » Mon, 21 Nov 2016, 23:29

Your best bet for fixing this would seem to be finding the appropriate voltage divider resistor (or chain of resistors), and tweaking the values until it reads more accurately. Of course, you can't do much about drift and so on, but it sounds like a decent improvement could be had that way, if you are hardware inclined.


Im learning as I go more of a handyman, any pointer's where on the inverter board the voltage would be sensed ?

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Post by Solar Junky » Tue, 22 Nov 2016, 01:27

Tjadenw wrote:
Your best bet for fixing this would seem to be finding the appropriate voltage divider resistor (or chain of resistors), and tweaking the values until it reads more accurately. Of course, you can't do much about drift and so on, but it sounds like a decent improvement could be had that way, if you are hardware inclined.


Im learning as I go more of a handyman, any pointer's where on the inverter board the voltage would be sensed ?


The on/off switch has same voltage going through it as batteries so maybe follow that.

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Post by coulomb » Tue, 22 Nov 2016, 05:24

vast wrote: Hello to everyone from Romania.
Welcome, Valentin.
Mention: I don't have utility source.
Do you mean you don't have mains power to connect to the AC input, or not even a generator? If nothing is connected to the AC input, do you mean you want to avoid utility mode altogether? With nothing connected to the AC input, the PIP will never select it as an input anyway.
Something in menu which I don't like: software don't have setup for Absorb and Absorb time.
Yes, but it's automatic. The charger(s) stay in bulk/absorb mode until the battery charge current reduces to a low value. But if you have float and bulk voltages set the same (menu #26 and menu #27), then it doesn't really matter whether the charger is in bulk/absorb or float modes, or how long is spends in either mode.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Post by vast » Tue, 22 Nov 2016, 13:14

Hi Coulomb.
I don't have mains power at all. I have a generator, but is not connected to the inverter. So, nothing is connected to the AC input.

I asked especially for menu #12 and #13. Initialy, I setup only menu for Bulk, Float and Low DC disconnect (#12 and 13 was default), but I observed that inverter start to warning beep when the voltage drop below 50V and was annoying for me. Then, I modified #12 to 48V and #13 to 50V and was much better.

Another point which I don't understand: warning beep stoped when the voltage is +4V over the #29 Low DC disconnect.


P.S. If I make grammar mistake, please forgive me and help me to improve my english.

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Post by paulvk » Tue, 29 Nov 2016, 02:40

Some observations of early cut off of bulk charge:
System 1 two PIPs 72.40 cuts off early on occasion
System 2 one PIP 52.30 cuts off early often
So they made improvements as I said before when the warranty runs out in Jan next year I will load the modded software.
Also got myself a Esmart 40A LCD MPPT Solar Charge Controller to play with looking to see if I can use it to add more solar to my units and I find that MPP are not the only ones using 63V capacitors, worse still 100V caps on the panel input , they rate the unit at 100v with 110v cut off yea thats going to work! Going to replace/move the 63v with the 100v and get some 150v or higher to replace the 100v ones, semiconductors 150 and 200 volt ok there.
If I can set the voltages not to go over 57v maybe it will be ok with the PIPs I will report on progress.

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Post by Tjadenw » Wed, 30 Nov 2016, 09:12

Hi

Eventually gave up on trying to figure out how to calibrate the 24 volt 3kva voltage seems like the 24 volt model can not be calibrated at all.

I kept a copy of the 24volt 3kva inverter with the 60 amp MPPT SCC
Think 0243 is the latest firmware, but this version still do not stay in absorb long enough.

PIP-MSX_2-3K_MAIN_0243.zip

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Post by Tejota » Fri, 09 Dec 2016, 11:11

Hi.

I have got this inverter:

Image

It was on 52.11 DSP and 1.22 SCC firmware.
It was updated on 72.60A lead acid DSP and 4.10 SCC without problems.

Every parameters can be modified with LCD buttons except 29 parameter ( cut dc volt battery). Watchpower is useless to modify this parm, of course.

Any explanation or solution?

Thanks in advanced.


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Post by weber » Fri, 09 Dec 2016, 17:33

Hi Tejota,

I have no explanation or solution for this, at present.

What value do you see for parameter 29?
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Post by coulomb » Sat, 10 Dec 2016, 02:22

Tejota wrote: Every parameters can be modified with LCD buttons except 29 parameter ( cut dc volt battery).

Any explanation or solution?

Is it possible that the value for this parameter before the firmware update was such that it would now be invalid?

For example, if it was set to 41.2 V, this was valid when the range was 40.0 - 48.0 V, but now the range is 44.0 - 52.0 V. This results in negative indexes internally, but the parameter value should display as normal, and as soon as the up or down buttons are pressed, it seems to me that the displayed value should snap to a limit (here 44.0 V, or if it somehow ended up over the new upper limit of 52.0 V, it should snap to that value). I've not tried this, and the code is somewhat convoluted, so I could be wrong.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Post by weber » Sat, 10 Dec 2016, 03:20

If Coulomb's explanation is correct, then a possible solution is to use Watchpower to set the Low DC cut-off voltage to something in the range 44.0 to 48.0. Watchpower should do that OK. It's only values outside that range that Watchpower cannot set when using 72.60A firmware.

If that fails, the next thing to try would be to restore the original 72.60 firmware, then set the Low DC cut-off voltage (param 29) to something in the range 44.0 to 48.0. You should also ensure the Back to utility voltage (param 12) is in the range 46 to 51 V. Then reload the patched firmware 72.60A.

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Post by Tejota » Sat, 10 Dec 2016, 13:08

Problem solved: Param 29 is not configurable when you put AGM in param 5.

Why? I dont know.

If you put AGM in param 5, param 29 is automatically configured at 42V.

All of that occurs on every firmware (52.11 to 72.60A)

Would you change to USE mode instead AGM mode?

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Post by weber » Sat, 10 Dec 2016, 15:22

Tejota wrote: Problem solved: Param 29 is not configurable when you put AGM in param 5.
Ah yes. Well found. Params 26 and 27 (absorb and float voltages) aren't configurable then either. The same occurs when you put Fld in param 5.
Would you change to USE mode instead AGM mode?

Yes. But you must then make sure you have suitable values in Params 26, 27 and 29, for your AGM battery. There is no other difference between AGM, Fld and uSE.

Coulomb and I were foolishly considering the LiFePO4 version of the patched firmware, when you had clearly told us you were using the lead-acid version, which does not change the range of any parameter.
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Post by coulomb » Sun, 11 Dec 2016, 15:59

paulvk wrote: I have noticed that my inverters seem to follow the mains frequency ...

Yes, but not the mains voltage. I suppose the ~ 20 V of difference (250 versus 230) is small compared to the up to ~480 V difference (250 + 230) if the inverter is opposite phase to the mains.

The synchronisation in frequency helps not only the internal switching of loads to AC input, but also my external contactor that switches loads to mains if the PIP output drops out. For the first such change, I didn't have the AC input breaker on, so it didn't sync, and the freezer did a cluck-a-da-clunk. From then on, with the AC input connected, there is not a murmur from the freezer, just a pleasing click from the switchboard, as it should be.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Post by joaquinsfy » Fri, 16 Dec 2016, 08:33

Hi,

My name is Joaquin Custodio, from Barcelona, Spain.

I'm working in an DIY PowerWall exactly like this www.hbpowerwall.com from Peter Matthews. following his path, i bought a pip-4048MS to use with de 14SP80 18650 lithium 200aH, Peter is using PCM60X to charge the packs using Solar.

After reading the 58 Pages about different firmware, i don't have a easy answer to my concern

Can i use the PIP-4048MS to charge the packs using AC from the utility?

Thanks and nice work on the firmware, i hope that i can add something valuable to this thread.


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