PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

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Post by gmacd33 » Mon, 18 May 2015, 15:15

Thanks Weber, that's awesome! Sorry I thought it would be saved in a folder already, but thanks for the Googling work!

I'm working on a concept to use 3 of these for a 3-phase system, without solar, just with batteries - to do "peak lopping" to reduce capacity charges. So your comms control of the charging could come in useful, as it won't be reset by the MPPT all the time!
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Post by weber » Mon, 18 May 2015, 15:21

I have no reason to think that MPP Solar is not the manufacturer as they claim. In fact I think there are very good reasons to believe they are the manufacturer, such as the fact that they were the first to become known, have the plain grey cover, have all the manuals and that they offered to modify the software for sufficient quantity.
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Post by gmacd33 » Mon, 18 May 2015, 15:51

For my 3-phase system design, I'm working on the basis that the DC battery side is isolated from the AC grid side (for charging and discharging) - does this mean I can use 3 hybrid units, one on each phase of the 3-phase power, with common neutral lines, and a common battery system and EMS?!?
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Post by weber » Mon, 18 May 2015, 16:01

gmacd33 wrote: For my 3-phase system design, I'm working on the basis that the DC battery side is isolated from the AC grid side (for charging and discharging) - does this mean I can use 3 hybrid units, one on each phase of the 3-phase power, with common neutral lines, and a common battery system and EMS?!?

Yes. As per this diagram in the directory I linked above.
Image

[ Edited Coulomb: Added the below image from the "4KVA/5KVA Parallel Installation Guide", wanting to clean up most missing images in preparation for the conversion to phpBB ]

Image
Last edited by coulomb on Mon, 17 Jul 2017, 07:23, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by gmacd33 » Mon, 18 May 2015, 16:07

Sorry, I should have had a closer look at what I downloaded from that directory before I asked! :-O
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Post by gmacd33 » Sat, 23 May 2015, 14:11

I'm pleased to announce that I am now a distributor for Giant Power, which are effectively the Australian-certified and -warranted version of the PIP-4048MS, as well as the grid-connected version (also with a few minor upgrades - see earlier pages of this topic). See http://www.giantpower.com.au/integrated-power-systems

If you are interested in buying one, send me a message! I'll be putting through an order in the next week or two - if you'd like to be part of that to save on delivery costs, let me know!.
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Post by reecho » Sat, 23 May 2015, 18:40

Has the manufacturer included lithium charging profiles yet?....or still flooded/gel??

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Post by gmacd33 » Sat, 23 May 2015, 18:46

Lithium charging profiles are not really needed, because the float voltages can be adjusted for Lithium batteries to use the existing charge profiles.
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Post by reecho » Mon, 25 May 2015, 01:45

Hmm......thinking about the 2400W model for a little tinkering maybe....

A small setup in the shed for testing. I have 5KW solar and a generous feed in tariff for a while so no point in changing yet. But I'm getting a little keen....

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Post by offgridQLD » Mon, 25 May 2015, 04:02

Just my thinking out loud. I would go for the 4000w 48v model vs the 2400w 24v model.

The 24v volt model has a tiny MPPT charger built In 25A x 24v (600w) so you can't put much back via solar in relation to how much the inverter can consume.The 4000w version has a 60A solar charger but at 48v - (3000w) that will go a long way in recovering your loads.   

2400w max continuous doesn't go a long way powering a home or shed. Turn a 2nd load on while your boiling the kettle and it could trip the inverter. 48v has some advances to with lower current and smaller gauge wires.

Given the price difference isn't that much. The 48v - 4000w version might future proof the investment.



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Post by coulomb » Mon, 25 May 2015, 13:26

reecho wrote: I have 5KW solar and a generous feed in tariff for a while so no point in changing yet. But I'm getting a little keen....

Of course, reducing consumption is not changing your agreement re the generous geed in tariff. I suppose they could break their word, but it seems to me that moving part or even all of your loads to battery, possibly only using the mains for backup, absolutely should not affect that agreement, so you should not lose your feed in tariff. Without much load, the existing system will export a lot more energy (especially if it is a small system), and can produce a lot more income. This could offset the capital expenditure of a totally separate battery system.
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Post by reecho » Mon, 25 May 2015, 18:30

It's just for mucking around. No continuous loads initially. More of a backup for telly etc when power goes out.

So any idea what the Redflow ZBM modules are worth to buy??

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Post by gmacd33 » Mon, 25 May 2015, 18:56

Last time I spoke to them, it was about $1,600/kWh. That will probably come down though as production ramps up in Central/South America (Mexico?)
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Post by offgridQLD » Mon, 25 May 2015, 19:22

"It's just for mucking around. No continuous loads initially. More of a backup for telly etc when power goes out"

I guess my point was that the Price difference between the 48v - 4000w load - 3000w mppt model that has useful specs to run a compleat home offgrid. Compared to the 24v - 2400w - 600w mppt model that's only good for as you say mucking aroud, camping, emergency use. Is only a few hundred dollars. $869 vs $1349.

If you enjoy it you might wish you spent that little bit more and got the larger one in the first place. As you can stil muck about with the larger unit and use it's full capacity if you get serious later.

Kurt
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Post by reecho » Mon, 25 May 2015, 20:38

Kurt is that the pricing for local Giant Power branded or grey import MPP solar units?

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Post by offgridQLD » Mon, 25 May 2015, 20:48

That's the local Giant Power.

Grey import is less but not that much less by the time you pay for shipping and upgrade the two noisy fans they come with. You might only save 10-15%.There is some value in local backup to particularly if you have to pay to ship it back to Twain for any issues.

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Post by Adverse Effects » Tue, 26 May 2015, 14:44

but the sec you open it up and stuff with the internals the warranty is out the window anyway so it depends on what your going to do with it in the long run

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Post by gmacd33 » Fri, 05 Jun 2015, 22:44

Hey does anyone know or have experience with the SolaX inverters and battery systems?
http://www.solarchoice.net.au/blog/wp-c ... alogue.pdf
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Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 16 Jun 2015, 02:43

Today I took some measurements with the PIP4048 running a resistive load. I wanted some idea of the efficiency of the inverter at the kind of loads it might see running a homes base loads. I picked a Heater on low for the test at 550W (just happens to be around 0.3C load for my small test battery bank so I am running a capacity test on that to)

Running the heater I measured the following

PIP4048 was showing 551W output and battery voltage of 52.4V
Image

My MM was showing 52.5v (I used this measurement for battery voltage)
Image

Amps from the battery showed 12.4A
Image

Meter on the heater plug showed 557w (I took 550w as number for calculations)
Image


12.4A x 52.5v = 651w and we are making 550w from that So about 15% loss doing so. 85% inverter efficiency. This is a reasonably realistic night time base load for a home with the tv and a few things on.

I will do the same test tomorrow at 2000w.

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Mon, 15 Jun 2015, 17:40, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Scott » Tue, 16 Jun 2015, 02:52

Thanks for sharing. AFAIK the 4048 has a flat fee of roughly 50W. All inverters have their sweet spot though, it'd be interesting to see it over a range of loads.

Is the heater you used resistive only (does it have a fan motor?) I'd be interested to see the VA as well.

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Post by weber » Tue, 16 Jun 2015, 03:00

Good test Kurt. Can you tell us what the range of possible efficiencies are, given the possible errors in all 3 readings, as stated by each instrument's manufacturer. Clamp meters for DC current have so much offset, drift and nonlinearity they are lucky to be within +-0.5 A. And many plug-in power meters have pretty low accuracy too.
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Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 16 Jun 2015, 03:28

"Good test Kurt. Can you tell us what the range of possible efficiencies are, given the possible errors in all 3 readings, as stated by each instrument's manufacturer. Clamp meters for DC current have so much offset, drift and nonlinearity they are lucky to be within +-0.5 A. And many plug-in power meters have pretty low accuracy too."

The clamp meter I used. Extech MA435T has a accuracy of ±(2.5% + 5d) So could have been as low as 12.04 Amps or as high as 12.76 Amps so as high as 669W or as low as 632w. (I will get a hard wired shunt on it next time) so a range of 87% to 82% inverter efficiency.


I was using it in it's 40A range and I zero it befor taking a measurement and took the measurement several times in a row giving me the same the reading 12.40A reading each time. PIP4048 was showing 12A

The MM was checked against my HP bench meter over the weekend and agreed with it to one decimal place so I think I can trust the 52.5V and my Exetech camp meter has a voltage setting and that showed the same 52.5V

The meter on the heaters plug has agreed with my readings Using more accurate shunt based meters that accurately measure current and voltage at my offgrid house. I would trust it to be within a few watts at 550w.I guess I should prove this rather than just take my word for it. I guess the fact the PIP4048 showed the same within (6w)was somewhat convincing.

Kurt



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Post by weber » Tue, 16 Jun 2015, 03:47

So if the power meter was +-1% accurate, the efficiency could be anywhere from 80% to 90%.
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Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 16 Jun 2015, 03:59

true if it is +/- 1%. I'm open to conducting more accurate tests if anyone is interested. I have the shunt and meter for the main DC feed from the battery if we can sort out the AC output - load side. I don't think the DC voltage is a real issue.

Kurt
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Post by solamahn » Thu, 18 Jun 2015, 12:00

I have been installing mppsolar pip inverter/charge controllers in Papua New Guinea for about 2 years. About 75 sites now. From 812HS to multiple 4048MS. Price attracted me to this brand. I have had my fair share of problems though. Fans. The soldered terminals would corrode. Depending on which terminals corrode, you get either a non serious 01 alarm but fan runs, serious fan does not run or failure if the 12v fan power supply fails. I treat the soldered fan terminals with lanolin grease and mount them upside down. I notice that late model units have the terminals coated. I would like to know the model number of a non adda replacement. DC cable terminals on scc were not tight enough. If using a lot of panels, these terminals would get too hot and fail. I always tighten all the DC connections inside the inverter before installation but again notice that on late model units all the screws are right from the factory. They are listening to me. I have had MOSFET failures. I read with interest a member saying he replaced his 4048 mosfets and caps with higher rated units. I will try this. I suspect the lvd at 42 might have something to do with this. I set 29 to 47 but have asked the manufacturer to have this value load dependent. I use Pb now but would like to try lifepo4. I am thinking of using 15 CALB 400ah instead of 16. Any thoughts on this. A 3248ms with 12 x 280w panels and 8 x 12v250ah AGM is a good combination. 2 3248's with 24 panels and 16 batteries is another popular choice.
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