PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

[Dahhan]

The Premature Float Bugs

The "premature float bug" is really two bugs for the price of one.

1. If you choose the "Aut" option for parameter 32 (Absorb time), or if you do not have parameter 32:
If the charge current available from the PV array at the beginning of the day does not ramp up to greater than one fifth of the maximum total charge current setting (parameter 02) within 50 seconds, it will prematurely go to float mode and never achieve absorb voltage that day.

2. If you choose a number of minutes for parameter 32:
The inverter will still count time spent well below the absorb voltage setting (parameter 26), e.g. due to heavy loads, as if it was absorb time, after having once been within 0.5 V of the absorb voltage setting.

Our patched firmware fixes both of these bugs. See the "Firmware" section of the index post to find the right version for your inverter.

Hello,
I might have the same problem with my inverter and would like any help.

System specs are as following:
- Inverter: AXPERT KING II 5KW from Renovo / Main firmware: 50.01 / Secondary firmware: 19.12 (see pics 1 to 5)
Option 2: 60A
Option 3: USE
Option 9: 50Hz
Option 11: 60A
Option 26: 57.6v (3.6v each cell)
Option 27: 54.4 (3.4v each cell)
Option 32: 10min
Output voltage: 230v

- Two Lifepo4 48v 200A batteries connected in parallel (they don't have a communication port):
https://www.joywaysolar.ae/blue-carbon- ... ttery-pack

- 12 CanadianSolar CS6W-540MS panels (connected 6S 2P):
http://www.solardesigntool.com/componen ... sheet.html

To make things easier I'll break the issue into sections:
1. When the inverter is charging from solar the voltage never exceeds the float voltage value (54.4v) and the charging LED indicator on the front panel never blinks nor stabilize (as it's finished charging and is on float) (pic 6), but when charging from AC it works as normal going to 57.6v for 10 minutes and the stabilizing at 54.4v and at the same time the charging LED on the panel blinks when charging and stabilize when on float (pic 7). Is there a firmware update available for my inverter (KING II), as a see one available for KING:
http://forums.aeva.asn.au/viewtopic.php ... 178#p76178

2. When the inverter is charging and reaches about 55.2v sometimes the light starts to flicker (it's most noticeable on the fridge lamp). The inverter is about 2 meters from the main electrical panel and I'm using 6mm2 cables for the AC (in and out) and 32mm2 cables for batteries. Can I do something about this? It's something like this, but it happens in my case while the battery is charging (On AC or Solar):
https://powerforum.co.za/topic/2024-lig ... de-axpert/

Photos are here:
https://ibb.co/album/NnsnGD

[coulomb]

Hello,

Welcome to the forum.

I might have the same problem with my inverter ...

Yes, the premature bugs are proudly provided on every factory Voltronic firmware, even the most recent models like yours. When owners complain to resellers, they are told that there is no such problem, it all works just fine.

- Inverter: AXPERT KING II 5KW from Renovo

I'm not familiar with the Removo branding, but it appears to be genuine enough. Do you have a small sticker with the manufacturing date of year 2021 and month 10? They might have given up on those stickers now.

Main firmware: 50.01 / Secondary firmware: 19.12 (see pics 1 to 5)

I've never seen either of the above firmwares. I've heard of 50.xx from at least one other owner, but I believe that they had removable firmware version 20.00. It's unfortunately not unusual for Voltronic to change the firmware versions around.

Option 2: 60A

That seems very low. With two 200 Ah lithium battery modules in parallel, you presumably have effectively one 400 Ah battery, so usually these would be able to be charged at about C/2 or 200 A max. It might be confusing the firmware having such a low limit. I would set this up to near the maximum your model will allow, though that might only be 80 A or so, due to the way the higher voltage Solar Charge Controllers work.

Option 26: 57.6v (3.6v each cell)
Option 27: 54.4 (3.4v each cell)

Those are very high voltages. I know the manufacturer recommends them, but that's so that the capacity figures can be achieved, and the manufacturer doesn't care about longevity of your battery. I use 55.2 V and 53.7 V for my 16S LFP battery, carefully chosen by user Weber on this forum. You could go a little higher than my figures perhaps.

Option 32: 10min

This is presumably timed absorb. It should result in at least 10 minutes at the bulk/absorb voltage, plus or minus about half a volt, solar conditions allowing of course.

- Two Lifepo4 48v 200A batteries connected in parallel (they don't have a communication port):
https://www.joywaysolar.ae/blue-carbon- ... ttery-pack

- 12 CanadianSolar CS6W-540MS panels (connected 6S 2P):

I note that 12 x 540 = 6,480 W, which is technically 8% more than you are allowed to connect. I don't believe that this should be a problem, although the Isc of two strings is also a little over the 27 A limit (13.9 x 2 = 27.8 A, or 3% over. Imp just squeaks under the limit, so I guess that this is OK. Though it's possible that the SCC firmware might be on the verge of de-rating the charge current a lot of the time. I might be able to deduce something from some SCC firmware recently acquired. But I've been quite busy of late.

1. When the inverter is charging from solar the voltage never exceeds the float voltage value (54.4v) and the charging LED indicator on the front panel never blinks nor stabilize (as it's finished charging and is on float) (pic 6), but when charging from AC it works as normal going to 57.6v for 10 minutes and the stabilizing at 54.4v and at the same time the charging LED on the panel blinks when charging and stabilize when on float (pic 7).

"Normal" premature float bug behaviour is to start in bulk stage (LED blinking) until the battery voltage reaches no more than half a volt under the bulk/absorb voltage setting. So this is not classic premature float behaviour. That might make it harder to fix (by patchers or even by Voltronic themselves).

Then again, I'm not familiar with how the inverter-charger behaves when in timed absorb mode. I would expect it to be much the same, except for the condition for transitioning from bulk/absorb to float stages.

Is there a firmware update available for my inverter (KING II), as a see one available for KING:

No, since no 50.xx firmware update file has been seen. If you can get one from your supplier, even if it doesn't fix the problem, then I could fix at least the classic premature float bug. I note that Weber and I don't have a commitment to patch your model, since it's a higher voltage SCC model.

2. When the inverter is charging and reaches about 55.2v sometimes the light starts to flicker (it's most noticeable on the fridge lamp).

This is presumably when charging from utility, since it's over the 54.4 V float voltage setting. My guess is that with the bus voltage fluctuating with solar insolation, the battery voltage might occasionally over-shoot the target voltage, and the battery's BMS (even though you don't communicate with it) might be disconnecting internal MOSFETs in an effort to protect the cells from over-voltage. By using a bulk/absorb setting of 55.2 V or perhaps 55.1 V, you might side-step this problem.

[Dahhan]

Hello,

Welcome to the forum.

Thanks a lot for your help and excuse me for using too many quotes. I stumbled upon this fix using Raspberry Pi for continuous monitoring:
https://github.com/lluisball/godenerg

I might have the same problem with my inverter ...

Yes, the premature bugs are proudly provided on every factory Voltronic firmware, even the most recent models like yours. When owners complain to resellers, they are told that there is no such problem, it all works just fine.

I can't even discuss it with the vendor (it just went above his head) and my electrician doesn't seem to care that much (it's no big deal to him as long as the inverter's fan in running then everything is just fine)

- Inverter: AXPERT KING II 5KW from Renovo

I'm not familiar with the Removo branding, but it appears to be genuine enough. Do you have a small sticker with the manufacturing date of year 2021 and month 10? They might have given up on those stickers now.

My inverter was manufacture on September, 2021
https://ibb.co/tpNP6dC

Option 2: 60A
That seems very low. With two 200 Ah lithium battery modules in parallel, you presumably have effectively one 400 Ah battery, so usually these would be able to be charged at about C/2 or 200 A max. It might be confusing the firmware having such a low limit. I would set this up to near the maximum your model will allow, though that might only be 80 A or so, due to the way the higher voltage Solar Charge Controllers work.

It's now summer where I live and I like to charge with low amperage as I have about 13 hours of sun, But now I cranked it to 80A (Total and Utility) as my battery circuit breaker doesn't allow any higher value and I don't want to pay for a new one:
http://unimarines.com/index.php?route=p ... ct_id=216

Option 26: 57.6v (3.6v each cell)
Option 27: 54.4 (3.4v each cell)

Those are very high voltages. I know the manufacturer recommends them, but that's so that the capacity figures can be achieved, and the manufacturer doesn't care about longevity of your battery. I use 55.2 V and 53.7 V for my 16S LFP battery, carefully chosen by user Weber on this forum. You could go a little higher than my figures perhaps.

You are absolutely right. I used those values to fight back this float voltage bug. We usually have 2 hours of utility electricity daily and sometimes every 2 days, so I figured I use 57.6v to balance to batteries together and top balance the cells inside each individual battery.
After researching a lot about this topic (bulk, absorb & float voltages) I can say that values you're using are the best IMHO:
https://youtu.be/pijPu7t-akM?t=1360
https://youtu.be/lEW6m-iKH8w?t=617

I finally went with 56v (3.5v each cell to harness the 2 hours of utility) for bulk / absorb, and 53.6v (3.35v each cell) for float with 120 min of absorb time (After seeing the 2 videos I thought it'd be the best for my case).

I note that 12 x 540 = 6,480 W, which is technically 8% more than you are allowed to connect. I don't believe that this should be a problem, although the Isc of two strings is also a little over the 27 A limit (13.9 x 2 = 27.8 A, or 3% over. Imp just squeaks under the limit, so I guess that this is OK. Though it's possible that the SCC firmware might be on the verge of de-rating the charge current a lot of the time. I might be able to deduce something from some SCC firmware recently acquired. But I've been quite busy of late.

I think that I'd never see a 100% outcome from my solar panels, so I figured I oversize them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4iOs2taeZM

1. When the inverter is charging from solar the voltage never exceeds the float voltage value (54.4v) and the charging LED indicator on the front panel never blinks nor stabilize (as it's finished charging and is on float) (pic 6), but when charging from AC it works as normal going to 57.6v for 10 minutes and the stabilizing at 54.4v and at the same time the charging LED on the panel blinks when charging and stabilize when on float (pic 7).

"Normal" premature float bug behaviour is to start in bulk stage (LED blinking) until the battery voltage reaches no more than half a volt under the bulk/absorb voltage setting. So this is not classic premature float behaviour. That might make it harder to fix (by patchers or even by Voltronic themselves).

Then again, I'm not familiar with how the inverter-charger behaves when in timed absorb mode. I would expect it to be much the same, except for the condition for transitioning from bulk/absorb to float stages.

Please excuse me for asking about it again, but I need to be 100% sure as I understood that by setting option 32 to 120 min in my case I force the inverter to stay about the bulk voltage (56v + or - 0.5v) for 120min whatever is the power generated by solar panels (even less than 1/5). I here quote from your comments:

https://powerforum.co.za/topic/9495-axp ... settings/

When it comes to deciding whether to exit bulk charging and enter the float stage, they use the wrong threshold for battery voltage. The threshold should be 0.5 V less than the bulk/absorb setting; they use 0.5 V below the float setting. So a passing cloud could easily cause the battery voltage to fall to say 0.4 V below the float voltage setting, with the current below 1/5 of the maximum charge current setting (setting 02). This could be when the battery is only say 65% charged; if it happens for long enough, the bulk/absorb charge is terminated and the battery voltage falls to the float voltage. At this voltage, the battery could take days to get to 100% SOC, so the battery is chronically undercharged. Not every day, but most days that have some clouds.

If instead the threshold was the absorb voltage less 0.5 V, then this would not happen at 65% SOC, but could only happen at about 99% SOC or higher, which is obviously what you want. Why they can't see this error is beyond me; it's been there from the beginning.

viewtopic.php?t=5830&start=75

I have no experience with this, since I use patched firmware. No patched firmware is available for your model, unfortunately. What I've been suggesting (and have had no feedback about) is to use the timed absorb feature (setting 32, "Bulk charging time"). That swaps one bug (premature float) for another (time under the cloud is counted the same as time in the sun), but it seems to me (without actually trying it) to be the "least worst" of the two bugs. The idea is to put setting 32 to something like 90 minutes (adjust with experience), so that even though the inverter will decide to praogress from bulk to absorb stages too early, it will be forced to stay in the absorb stage (aiming for the higher battery voltage, setting 26) for at least 90 minutes every day. Due to the factory firmware bug, it could be 90 minutes of shade/cloud/rain/snow, but at least it will be aiming for the higher voltage for longer.

Is there a firmware update available for my inverter (KING II), as a see one available for KING:

No, since no 50.xx firmware update file has been seen. If you can get one from your supplier, even if it doesn't fix the problem, then I could fix at least the classic premature float bug. I note that Weber and I don't have a commitment to patch your model, since it's a higher voltage SCC model.

Your answer is probably no, but do you think I can extract the firmware my self using a BIOS flasher like this:
https://www.ebay.de/itm/153994339271?

2. When the inverter is charging and reaches about 55.2v sometimes the light starts to flicker (it's most noticeable on the fridge lamp).

This is presumably when charging from utility, since it's over the 54.4 V float voltage setting. My guess is that with the bus voltage fluctuating with solar insolation, the battery voltage might occasionally over-shoot the target voltage, and the battery's BMS (even though you don't communicate with it) might be disconnecting internal MOSFETs in an effort to protect the cells from over-voltage. By using a bulk/absorb setting of 55.2 V or perhaps 55.1 V, you might side-step this problem.

I believe this is the case

[ Edited Coulomb: fixed the worst of the quoting problems. ]

[coulomb]

My inverter was manufacture on September, 2021
https://ibb.co/tpNP6dC

Oops, I misremembered the month. So that's good; it looks like a genuine Axpert King.

I think that I'd never see a 100% outcome from my solar panels, so I figured I oversize them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4iOs2taeZM

That's probably OK.

1. When the inverter is charging from solar the voltage never exceeds the float voltage value (54.4v) and the charging LED indicator on the front panel never blinks nor stabilize (as it's finished charging and is on float) (pic 6),

I just realised that you're saying that for most of the time when charging from solar, you get NO charging (light off), not even float charging (light is on steady, not blinking). Let alone what it should do, which is to be blinking (bulk or absorb stages). That's really bad. Hopefully so obviously bad that they might listen, fix it, and send you a firmware update file.

Please excuse me for asking about it again, but I need to be 100% sure as I understood that by setting option 32 to 120 min in my case I force the inverter to stay about the bulk voltage (56v + or - 0.5v) for 120min whatever is the power generated by solar panels (even less than 1/5).

Yes, that's right. In timed absorb, it works on time, not the current criterion of 1/5 of the max charging current setting. There is a different bug that happens in this mode; it counts ALL time, not just time when the battery is near the absorb voltage. But that's not nearly as serious as the main premature float bug.

Your answer is probably no, but do you think I can extract the firmware my self using a BIOS flasher like this:
https://www.ebay.de/itm/153994339271?

I don't know what the linked device is for, it looks like something to do with a personal computer bios. IF you knew the 128-bit password, it's possible to extract the firmware using JTAG hardware, but they keep the password a secret.

[daimyo]

@coulomb

Hi,

Do you know why all of my 4048 inverters are "limited" to 3,2 kW power input from solar panels?

Whatever I pun over that on them they cut the rest off...

Sa far as I know they are nominated to be 4kW?

Thank You and best regards

T

[coulomb]

Do you know why all of my 4048 inverters are "limited" to 3,2 kW power input from solar panels?

Some time in late 2015, they changed from 60 A max to 80 A max. Mine are manufactured October 2015, and still have the 60 A max SCCs.

60 A is close to 3.2 kW, 80 A is close to 4 kW. About 10% more at higher battery voltages (LFP battery).

Wnen were yours manufactured? There is usually a small sticker on the side that has the manufacturing year and month, or it's encoded in the serial number.

[daimyo]

Do you know why all of my 4048 inverters are "limited" to 3,2 kW power input from solar panels?

Some time in late 2015, they changed from 60 A max to 80 A max. Mine are manufactured October 2015, and still have the 60 A max SCCs.

60 A is close to 3.2 kW, 80 A is close to 4 kW. About 10% more at higher battery voltages (LFP battery).

Wnen were yours manufactured? There is usually a small sticker on the side that has the manufacturing year and month, or it's encoded in the serial number.

Yes thats it... You know everything

Mine is year 2014, and 60A model,

Never mind I will put rest of panels on 5048 in 6S.

Thank you once again. You are the best.

T

[mihaigsm2003]

Hi!
I need firmware for PIP 5048MGX.
Problem, i change display (removable) after this i can't change Current in menu 02 and 11. i write new version of display, now i can set current on menu 11 but 02 can't change. if try comand line i get failed.

Write setting MCHGC020 to inverter 92932012101612 ... FAILED

i try firmware from this topic but finaly inverter was bricked (rewrite back firmware with motherboard witout DC transistors FET's)
Firmware actualy:
U1 71.03 MCU
U2 12.11 LCD
U3 00.24 ???

[coulomb]

I need firmware for PIP 5048MGX.
Problem, i change display (removable) after this i can't change Current in menu 02 and 11. i write new version of display, now i can set current on menu 11 but 02 can't change.

Which removable display versions did you try? And which one was better?

i try firmware from this topic but finaly inverter was bricked (rewrite back firmware with motherboard witout DC transistors FET's)

Do you mean that you've actually damaged the MOSFETs now?

Firmware actualy:
U1 71.03 MCU
U2 12.11 LCD

Do you mean that these were the versions originally, from the factory? The first one is usually called DSP not MCU; MCU is usually reserved for the removable display.

U3 00.24 ???

I believe that this is the Bluetooth or WiFi firmware. I've never seen an update for these, and suspect that it's not possible for end users to update this firmware, except by updating hardware.

In my collection, for the MGX, I have only 72.10 (main, DSP, U1) and 15.04 (MCU, removable display). Would either of these help you at present?

[mihaigsm2003]

Which removable display versions did you try? And which one was better?

I received inverter for repair with non original display, i try with all finded fw from internet

i try firmware from this topic but finaly inverter was bricked (rewrite back firmware with motherboard witout DC transistors FET's)

Do you mean that you've actually damaged the MOSFETs now?

Inverter is now working, but can't change current total charging at menu 02
Fet's is ok, i have automatic fuse on mai testing battery 10A
i am back to 71.03 with logical board on motherboard witout FET's

Firmware actualy:
U1 71.03 MCU
U2 12.11 LCD

Do you mean that these were the versions originally, from the factory? The first one is usually called DSP not MCU; MCU is usually reserved for the removable display.

only U1 and U3 is from factory

In my collection, for the MGX, I have only 72.10 (main, DSP, U1) and 15.04 (MCU, removable display). Would either of these help you at present?

i can try

[coulomb]

I received inverter for repair with non original display, i try with all finded fw from internet

The removable display firmware handles a variety of models. In particular, the 12.xx series seem to attempt to handle VM III, King, MAX 230 V, and MAX 120 V. Running that on a model it's not expecting (PIP-MGX) is likely to cause trouble. In your case, it likely won't recognise the MGX's query name command response, so it likely defaults to code 0, which means it thinks it's talking to a VM III. For the maximum current setting, it checks to see if it's a VM III, and if so, it doesn't send the machine number in the command (VM IIIs can't be paralleled). This is not valid for a PIP-MGX, hence the error.

[ Edit: My guess is that they are working towards unifying the 02.xx display firmware (for Kings and VM IIIs) with the 15.xx MAX display firmware, but since Kings and VM IIIs still seem to come with 02.xx display firmware, I'd say that the unification is not yet complete. So while 12.xx might appear to work on a King or VM III, there may be subtle problems. ]

In my collection, for the MGX, I have only 72.10 (main, DSP, U1) and 15.04 (MCU, removable display). Would either of these help you at present?

i can try

OK. Please find attached.

[mihaigsm2003]

I received inverter for repair with non original display, i try with all finded fw from internet

The removable display firmware handles a variety of models. In particular, the 12.xx series seem to attempt to handle VM III, King, MAX 230 V, and MAX 120 V. Running that on a model it's not expecting (PIP-MGX) is likely to cause trouble. In your case, it likely won't recognise the MGX's query name command response, so it likely defaults to code 0, which means it thinks it's talking to a VM III. For the maximum current setting, it checks to see if it's a VM III, and if so, it doesn't send the machine number in the command (VM IIIs can't be paralleled). This is not valid for a PIP-MGX, hence the error.

[ Edit: My guess is that they are working towards unifying the 02.xx display firmware (for Kings and VM IIIs) with the 15.xx MAX display firmware, but since Kings and VM IIIs still seem to come with 02.xx display firmware, I'd say that the unification is not yet complete. So while 12.xx might appear to work on a King or VM III, there may be subtle problems. ]

In my collection, for the MGX, I have only 72.10 (main, DSP, U1) and 15.04 (MCU, removable display). Would either of these help you at present?

i can try

OK. Please find attached.

Thanks for reply!
i put but firmware on inverter but no luck

[20220512 12:26:20] Starting MultiSIBControl 1.6 ...
[20220512 12:26:20] Connected serial inverter device: 92932012101612, PI30, 037, VMIII-5000
[20220512 12:26:40] INVERTER ERROR [92932012101612]: Fxx - PV loss; Wxx - Line fail;
Work mode: Battery ; Grid voltage: 0.0V ; Grid frequency: 0.00Hz ; Grid watts: 0W ; Output voltage: 230.0V ; Output frequency: 50.00Hz ; Load active power: 2W ; Load percent: 0.00% ; Battery voltage: 52.90V ; Battery watts: 0W ; Battery SOC: 100% ; PV voltage: 0.0V ; PV watts: 0W ; PV2 voltage: 0.0V ; PV2 watts: 0W ; Inverter bus voltage: 368V ; Inverter temperature: 32°C
[20220512 12:27:22] Write setting MCHGC010 to inverter 92932012101612 ... FAILED
[20220512 12:27:24] Write setting MUCHGC010 to inverter 92932012101612 ... FAILED

from panel same error, with this firmware can't set current charging for both settings 02 and 11 maybe other settings too

mutiSIBControl is recognise as VMIII-5000

[coulomb]

i put but firmware on inverter but no luck

Err, woops! I assumed that I had a matched set, but it seems that I don't. It's possible that the reseller via Voltronics has supplied some hapless owner the mismatched set, I would not put it past them.

71.10 returns code (042 from QGMN, but display firmware 15.04 doesn't look for those values; only for King values. There was a note I put at the front of the firmware saying that this was from a rack mounted King, but I assumed I made a copy and paste error. But perhaps I didn't. Sigh.

So I don't know what display firmware a PIP-MGX comes with, sorry. I did a quick search, and find I said as much some 8 months ago: https://powerforum.co.za/topic/9947-fir ... ent=105578 . I even admitted back then that the firmware I thought was for MGX is in fact for rack-mounted Kings. Sigh. So many versions to remember.

Edit: Ah. From this post, it seems it comes with 13.xx (in his case, 13.12). Sadly, this is not in my collection.