PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb »

GioArca67 wrote: Fri, 09 Apr 2021, 11:55
... choosing a replacement firmware
Is there any risk in doing that replacement?
There is a very small risk, e.g. if your communications card is marginal, it's possible to start the reflash process and have it fail before it reaches the end. You can try again no problem, but if your communications card is very unreliable, you may never get there. In that case, you'd need a new communications card, which could take a lot of time to arrive, and meanwhile you have no power.
It makes subtle differences, even if you don't have enough charging power to get past 70A.
Could you please explain which differences?
The main one is that the "tail current", the current below which the charger switches to float setting, is based on this setting. If you make the setting too low, your battery could spend too long in absorb mode, shortening its life slightly. The other connection I can think of is only in patched firmware. The KettleKomp™ feature (internal resistance compensation) estimates the internal resistance of the battery in part from this setting. Larger batteries tend to have larger values for this setting, and those larger batteries tend to have lower internal resistance.
Is there any problem if warning 04 is going on, apart of the annoying beep that anyway can be muted?
If you have no utility power, then no, I don't think so. When the warning is showing, the battery is deemed "weak", which affects which modes it switches to, but without utility, you will only ever be in battery mode (or utility mode if you plug in a generator).
I also wanted to follow another route: as the BMS of the Pylons will give me SOC, with a little device like an ESP32 or similar get the info from the cons or rs485 port of the master battery and either shut off the inverter (but then how to turn it on, as I could not find such a command,
You don't need a special command to turn the charger on; it will wake the inverter at sunrise, even if the power switch is off.

The problem is if you turn the power switch off to shut up the noise and/or to prevent the battery from discharging ever further. You will need the power switch on to allow the inverter to power the loads. It's probably best to ensure that the battery never gets too discharged, so that you can just let it run all night in fault mode. Next day it should start up normally with no intervention.
or to force the inverter use the AC input (if it is possible as I have no AC input and maybe the inverter refuses to switch it)
It won't attempt to go to line mode (where the AC-in powers the loads directly) if no AC-in is detected.

Your idea is still sound. You can have a small computer talk say RS-485 to the battery's BMS, and when the SOC falls to a particular value, you can have the small computer send a command to the inverter to change the cut-off voltage so that the inverter shuts down with fault code 04. There may be a more elegant way that I can't think of at present. In the morning when the SOC has recovered enough, you can get it to send another command to set the cut-off voltage very low again. That should trigger normal operation.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by GioArca67 »

Thanks a lot for all the replies.
Is the on off switch accessible? In order to rewire it?
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by paulvk »

There are two links on the communication board that select either relay for generator or on/off switch for use with remote control unit
moving the links lets you put a switch on the NO and NC terminals.
But why not use the SCC relay power on the good SCC unit to operate a small relay to turn on inverter so it only works when the sun is out.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb »

GioArca67 wrote: Thu, 15 Apr 2021, 02:24 Is the on off switch accessible? In order to rewire it?
Yes. In your model, it's in the cabling area. You just need to take off the small cable cover at the bottom. One of the wires is basically battery positive via a 1A diode, so definitely disconnect the battery when soldering to the switch. Consider inserting small 1k resistors in series with each lead, to act as low current fuses.

I think you can instead rewire your "clean contacts" relay terminals to be across the power switch. I forget the details, there is a small section in the manual about that, I think. You just change some jumpers on the communications board. If using this, leave the power switch off. The same safety comments apply: switch off the battery when wiring, and consider the 1k resistors to protect your wiring and that diode.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by GioArca67 »

paulvk wrote: Thu, 15 Apr 2021, 07:01 There are two links on the communication board that select either relay for generator or on/off switch for use with remote control unit
moving the links lets you put a switch on the NO and NC terminals.
Read Steca manual many times but could not find this info. Thanks!
paulvk wrote: Thu, 15 Apr 2021, 07:01 But why not use the SCC relay power on the good SCC unit to operate a small relay to turn on inverter so it only works when the sun is out.
Because some appliances should operate also during night time, like the garage door, but it is not a problem to switch the inverter on, open the door, switch it off after closing the door. There is a manual keyswitch for the door but I think it is connected to the door control box and not directly to the motor and thus is not usable the power save feature of the inverter as the door control box is a weaker load than inverter could sense (we already tested this configuration)

In the Steca manuale there is a reference to a PA WiFi box that could be connected to the inverter but I could not find any info. Anyone knows what is it?

Yes what I need is to remotely switch on/off the inverter. If there are dry contacts to do this would be great!
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by weber »

GioArca67 wrote: Thu, 15 Apr 2021, 02:24 Thanks a lot for all the replies.
Is the on off switch accessible? In order to rewire it?
There is also a serial-comms option if you're using our patched firmware. You can send a MNCHGC0497 command to turn it "off" (less than 15 watts) and a MNCHGC0498 to turn it back on again.

Full details here: https://dkeenan.com/Dynamic%20Charge%20 ... manual.txt
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by GioArca67 »

Yes I've examined all the details of patched fw: very useful.
This option is viable when we will implement a comm system to get info from batteries and inverter and then issue some commands to it.
Now seems harder to implement a remote switch on off this way, better have a contact to close/open to turn on/off the inverter as we already have a wireless transceiver that can be used just before the remote garage door opener.

In these days I'm not near the inverter and cannot directly check, so I'm gathering infos.
But where are the specs of the inverter comm board?
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by paulvk »

GioArca67 wrote: Thu, 15 Apr 2021, 12:34
Because some appliances should operate also during night time, like the garage door, but it is not a problem to switch the inverter on, open the door, switch it off after closing the door. There is a manual keyswitch for the door but I think it is connected to the door control box and not directly to the motor and thus is not usable the power save feature of the inverter as the door control box is a weaker load than inverter could sense (we already tested this configuration)

In the Steca manuale there is a reference to a PA WiFi box that could be connected to the inverter but I could not find any info. Anyone knows what is it?

Yes what I need is to remotely switch on/off the inverter. If there are dry contacts to do this would be great!
I would then use both turn off inverter with SCC but have manual override so normally it is automatic but to open the door use wireless relay.
With wifi I use HLK-RM04 serial to tcpip which is also a wifi access point with router.
I use these units to remote control and monitor my inverters via my LAN and with VPN network to network (my two LANs in different geographical places are linked)
over the internet with the units you get two RS232 ports and by using Netburner virtual com's ports I can treat them as normal com's ports on my PC I even have
a Atmel Mega32 which measures current on my battery banks connected to the second RS232 port that simply sends data on that port which I can capture
with any program that can connect to a com port on my pc.
The Mega32 has a boot loader based on xmodem and as a test I uploaded new firmware to it via the HLK-RM04 this worked perfectly have not yet tried it with an inverter.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb »

GioArca67 wrote: Thu, 15 Apr 2021, 15:57 But where are the specs of the inverter comm board?
Specifications? For anything beyond what you get in the user manual?

There isn't any that I know of. Voltronic, like most Asian companies, aren't really big on documentation.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by weber »

GioArca67 wrote: Thu, 15 Apr 2021, 15:57 But where are the specs of the inverter comm board?
For what members of this forum have been able to reverse-engineer, search on "comm" in this page:
https://forums.aeva.asn.au/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=6007
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by MarkusRE »

Hi together,

yesterday I expanded my battery system with two US2000C. So now I have 2 US2000C in front (Master) and 4 US2000B. So far it's working pretty good, but as the US2000C have an RJ45 connector for Console, instead RJ11 I made a new adapter. But I have no acces via Watchpower or multisibcontrol, which I use to monitor.

Anyone have an Idea about this?
us2000c.jpg
us2000c.jpg (24.42 KiB) Viewed 695 times
So I connected Pin 3 and 6 to the corresponding pins on DB9 SUB also GND of course, but it won't communicate anymore.

Kind regards
Markus

P.S.: Maybe you remember my blown Inverter. As I had no corresponding Firmware I decidede to do nothing. Last week I wrote to a sales manager of EASUN (via WA) and told him my problem with this broken inverter. He promised me to give me a fast and easy solution sending him some pictures. I keep you informed.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb »

MarkusRE wrote: Sat, 17 Apr 2021, 01:37 ... as the US2000C have an RJ45 connector for Console, instead RJ11 I made a new adapter. But I have no acces via Watchpower or multisibcontrol, which I use to monitor.

I don't understand what Watchpower has to do with this. As far as I know, it can't talk to the battery's BMS.
So I connected Pin 3 and 6 to the corresponding pins on DB9 SUB also GND of course, but it won't communicate anymore.
Did you use the RS-232 ground?
Did you connect TX at one end to RX on the other? Even if you did, it doesn't say whether TX is with respect to the BMS or the connected device. So try the other way, or use the fact that TX (with respect to the BMS) should have a negative voltage on it, and RX more or less open circuit.
I presume that this is to connect to a Raspberry pi or other computer running your monitoring software, not the inverter's RS-232 port. Is this a true RS-232 port, or perhaps serial-TTL? They seem to have really changed things with the US3000C model.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by MarkusRE »

I made a mistake with watchpower, I meant this Batteryview.

I found the issue. My crimping tool did not crimp one contact fine it was a kind of bended. So I could measure it fine but it had no contact between RJ45 plug and the connector in the batterie. Sorry, don't know the correct name.

Now all is working fine. I just connected the cable via a RS232 to USB Adapter and immediatly all Batteries were shown in Multisibcontrol. Later on I will also connect a cable from RS485 via Adapter to a USB port to see the cycles of the batteries.

Does someone know a good adpter from RS485 to RS232 maybe with a integrated adapter tu USB. Or better direct RS485 to USB.
multisibcontrol.jpg
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So thanks very much.

Kind regards
Markus
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by MarkusRE »

Good evening,

may I ask another question?
Last year when I started with this inverters, one blew up and I did not ask for a replacement, because I flashed the firmware. Know I'm in contact with EASUN and hopefully they make me a good offer.
Nevertheless I opened the Inverter and saw at least on the left side one exploded MosFET. It is a IRGP4066D, but what does this 848P stands for? I looked in ebay for this type, but only found IRGP with lower values as 848P.

Maybe someone has a link to a fitting one. I plan to order some as spare if in future I run in trouble or EASUN is not willing to help in an acceptable form.
MOSFET.jpg
MOSFET.jpg (88.77 KiB) Viewed 608 times
MOSFET1.jpg
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Any sugestion what else to order?

Kind regards
Markus from Germany
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb »

MarkusRE wrote: Mon, 19 Apr 2021, 00:31 Nevertheless I opened the Inverter and saw at least on the left side one exploded MosFET. It is a IRGP4066D, but what does this 848P stands for? I looked in ebay for this type, but only found IRGP with lower values as 848P.
That's actually an IGBT, not a MOSFET. The 848P is probably not actually part of the part number. My guess is that it was manufactured in 2018, 48th working week, and is lead-free (chemical symbol for lead is Pb). Ebay likely won't tell you what date the parts were made, and any date code you see in photos is almost certainly not from the actual parts on sale. So no need to worry about that. However, the "D" in the part number is critical, it likely indicates that the device has internal free-wheel diodes fitted. Unlike MOSFETs, IGBTs don't have integral diodes, they have to be added in a separate die, and some devices leave them out, so you have to add them separately if needed (and they almost always are). Weber ran into strife with that.
Any sugestion what else to order?
That IGBT is probably in a full bridge configuration, if so, always replace the other device in the same half-bridge.

When IGBTs or MOSFETs blow, they often take out some gate driver components. Check the partial schematic diagrams via the index in the first post of the repair topic to see what parts may be involved.

I'd consider buying some capacitors that protect the battery-side MOSFETs, and replace those 4 (if they are not already replaced with long life parts) whenever you have the opportunity, e.g. if you replace IGBTs. See the index for suitable part numbers. These may not be available from Ebay, you might have to order from online suppliers such as Mouser, Digi-Key, etc. The MOSFETs blow at least as often as IGBTs, but replacing those really requires a desoldering station, and you often need to replace at least 8 at once, so you probably don't want to keep those on hand unless you are repairing these units regularly.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by MarkusRE »

coulomb wrote: Mon, 19 Apr 2021, 06:39
MarkusRE wrote: Mon, 19 Apr 2021, 00:31 Nevertheless I opened the Inverter and saw at least on the left side one exploded MosFET. It is a IRGP4066D, but what does this 848P stands for? I looked in ebay for this type, but only found IRGP with lower values as 848P.
That's actually an IGBT, not a MOSFET. The 848P is probably not actually part of the part number. My guess is that it was manufactured in 2018, 48th working week, and is lead-free (chemical symbol for lead is Pb). Ebay likely won't tell you what date the parts were made, and any date code you see in photos is almost certainly not from the actual parts on sale. So no need to worry about that. However, the "D" in the part number is critical, it likely indicates that the device has internal free-wheel diodes fitted. Unlike MOSFETs, IGBTs don't have integral diodes, they have to be added in a separate die, and some devices leave them out, so you have to add them separately if needed (and they almost always are). Weber ran into strife with that.

I hope EASUN give me a replacement board. It looks very good for the moment. And if they don't want the old one back I give it a try.
Any sugestion what else to order?
That IGBT is probably in a full bridge configuration, if so, always replace the other device in the same half-bridge.

When IGBTs or MOSFETs blow, they often take out some gate driver components. Check the partial schematic diagrams via the index in the first post of the repair topic to see what parts may be involved.

I'd consider buying some capacitors that protect the battery-side MOSFETs, and replace those 4 (if they are not already replaced with long life parts) whenever you have the opportunity, e.g. if you replace IGBTs. See the index for suitable part numbers. These may not be available from Ebay, you might have to order from online suppliers such as Mouser, Digi-Key, etc. The MOSFETs blow at least as often as IGBTs, but replacing those really requires a desoldering station, and you often need to replace at least 8 at once, so you probably don't want to keep those on hand unless you are repairing these units regularly.
I look for this capacitors at RS Electronics, should be no problem. I also asked for a servicemanual for this Inverter with PF1.0. It was promised, so lets wait.

Have a nice day
markus
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by solamahn »

Does anybody know if a 5048ms 64v main pcb will work in an older non 64v version.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by rezydent »

I have a few questions and maybe one of you will tell me.
I would like to connect a wind generator to the PV input of the inverter PIP4048.
I have a slow speed wind turbine that starts at 4 m/s and can give 120VAC. Nominally at 12 m/s it is able to give 2kW at 250VAC.
Will it work if I use such a system? Or maybe something else needs to be done?
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by teba »

The 250VAC are far to high for the input of the charger.
You should make sure that there is a break when the inverter has no load an fully charged batteries. Otherwise it will burn the input of the charger. The max input voltage is 145V!
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb »

rezydent wrote: Sun, 02 May 2021, 15:03 I would like to connect a wind generator to the PV input of the inverter PIP4048...
Will it work if I use such a system?
It depends what PIP-4048 model. This topic is about the PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS. As Teba has noted, these have a 145 V absolute maximum input voltage.
The voltage range (assuming that the 120 and 250 V you mention are phase-to-phase voltages) will result in about 170-350 VDC, which would suit a PIP-5048MG or other model with a 450 V max solar charge controller. Hopefully the wind turbine's insulation will withstand the extra voltage to earth that these models impose on the PV input.

But to me the wider issue is whether the solar MPPT will work properly on wind. My understanding is that a purpose-built wind charge controller is always necessary; as an MPPT attempts to find the maximum power point, it will exceed the maximum power point of the wind turbine, which will mechanically brake it, which will push it off its maximum power point with a mechanical delay and momentum, and the system would "hunt" around the maximum power point all the time, never spending much time close to the maximum power point. This could possibly stress the generator and blades, which could lead to a shortened lifetime, possibly drastically shortened.

The front end of a wind generator will look much like the circuit you posted, and the hardware of the wind charge controller (after the 3-phase rectifier and filter) will be much the same as that of the solar charge controller. But I believe that the firmware will have to be much different. Higher voltage PIP/Axpert inverter-chargers have the solar charge firmware mingled with the rest of the main inverter firmware (not separated out like the PIP-MS models). So there seems little hope of finding suitable firmware to replace the solar charging firmware.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by rezydent »

coulomb wrote: Sun, 02 May 2021, 21:32
rezydent wrote: Sun, 02 May 2021, 15:03 I would like to connect a wind generator to the PV input of the inverter PIP4048...
Will it work if I use such a system?
It depends what PIP-4048 model. This topic is about the PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS. As Teba has noted, these have a 145 V absolute maximum input voltage.
The voltage range (assuming that the 120 and 250 V you mention are phase-to-phase voltages) will result in about 170-350 VDC, which would suit a PIP-5048MG or other model with a 450 V max solar charge controller. Hopefully the wind turbine's insulation will withstand the extra voltage to earth that these models impose on the PV input.

But to me the wider issue is whether the solar MPPT will work properly on wind. My understanding is that a purpose-built wind charge controller is always necessary; as an MPPT attempts to find the maximum power point, it will exceed the maximum power point of the wind turbine, which will mechanically brake it, which will push it off its maximum power point with a mechanical delay and momentum, and the system would "hunt" around the maximum power point all the time, never spending much time close to the maximum power point. This could possibly stress the generator and blades, which could lead to a shortened lifetime, possibly drastically shortened.

The front end of a wind generator will look much like the circuit you posted, and the hardware of the wind charge controller (after the 3-phase rectifier and filter) will be much the same as that of the solar charge controller. But I believe that the firmware will have to be much different. Higher voltage PIP/Axpert inverter-chargers have the solar charge firmware mingled with the rest of the main inverter firmware (not separated out like the PIP-MS models). So there seems little hope of finding suitable firmware to replace the solar charging firmware.
Oh i see i made a mistake i have PIP5048MG , 64V battery and 450VDC MPPT.
Today there was a little wind blowing, and here's the power graph. In fact, when the wind speed drops, I have a lot of power swimming. But it is not drastic enough to stall the turbine, it slows down but the voltage does not drop below 120VDC as the inverter reduces the current drawn.
See for yourself.
The power drawn from the wind turbine is leap and it worries me how this could be changed.
Is the MPPT module in the inverter controlled by the main processor? If so, it could be changed - at least I think so.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb »

rezydent wrote: Sun, 02 May 2021, 22:01 The power drawn from the wind turbine is leap and it worries me how this could be changed.
I think we have a translation problem here. Do you mean the voltage and power seem to be very stepped? The SCC charge current is only reported in whole amps, so that' part of it.
Is the MPPT module in the inverter controlled by the main processor?
Yes, in your model and others with high voltage SCCs.
If so, it could be changed - at least I think so.
Well, perhaps if you understood the firmware well, and were really good at patching.

Or knew someone who is.


Oh, and who cares about high voltage models, and understands that part of the firmware (I don't).
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5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by rezydent »

coulomb wrote: Sun, 02 May 2021, 23:18 Or knew someone who is.
Oh, and who cares about high voltage models, and understands that part of the firmware (I don't).
I bought several models directly from MPP Solar.
I will write to them directly. Maybe I will be able to (for some payment) get the corrected software. Or they will send me the entire motherboard with the changed firmware. This is the first day of testing. I noticed one thing. The inverter adapted to the changing parameters of the wind and does not load the turbines so much in lighter winds. Now, in a calm manner draws power from the turbine. As if the inverter created a map of the input voltage / versus the power you can download.
6240 solar, 2 x PIP5048MG inverter, 20kWh battery
3120 solar, PIP5048MG inverter 6kWh battery
GioArca67
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Posts: 8
Joined: Thu, 08 Apr 2021, 20:41

Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by GioArca67 »

From the graphs above it seams that the charge regulator is not able to take the power from the turbine.
At about 13:30 - 14:00 voltage rised from 140 to 170 V whilst power increased from 200 to 600W: i.e. current varied from 1.4 to 3.5 A, then about one hour later with less voltage it could sink 750W (about 5.3A).
Was the load changing?
rezydent
Noobie
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue, 02 Jan 2018, 04:53

Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by rezydent »

GioArca67 wrote: Tue, 04 May 2021, 02:54 Was the load changing?
No, loading remained at the same level, because the inverter was recharging the batteries, it has two inverters connected in parallel, which, if only they can, give maximum charging power. I noticed that I must have a wind speed of 8 m/s up. Then it starts to work more stable.
6240 solar, 2 x PIP5048MG inverter, 20kWh battery
3120 solar, PIP5048MG inverter 6kWh battery
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