Voltronic InfiniSolar Inverters

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Re: Voltronic InfiniSolar Inverters

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Re: Voltronic InfiniSolar Inverters

Post by eliafino »

Hi, I also have InfiniSolar E 5.5KW inverter.
Use serial protocol PI16
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Re: Voltronic InfiniSolar Inverters

Post by rashid74 »

Hi All,

I am in Pakistan and have Voltronic Power Infini V Duo with 2 MPPT Controllers.
I am using it from last couple of years but now facing a strange issue.

My 2nd MPPT controller would keep on showing battery charging even after couple of hours of sunset. Its cooling fan would keep making noise. Charging voltage would stuck at 55v with 65-70watt pv output. 1st MPPT controller is working normally.

I want to know, if it is a Software Bug or Hardware issue?

Regards,

Rashid
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Re: Voltronic InfiniSolar Inverters

Post by coulomb »

rashid74 wrote: Mon, 12 Apr 2021, 18:32 Hi All,

I am in Pakistan
Welcome to the forum.
My 2nd MPPT controller would keep on showing battery charging even after couple of hours of sunset. Its cooling fan would keep making noise. Charging voltage would stuck at 55v with 65-70watt pv output.
Either you have extremely powerful moonlight there ;) or something strange is going on. Is the battery really at 55V? If so, that must be due to utility charging, not PV. It seems like a sensor has gone mad, and is reporting charge current when there is none. PIP/Axpert solar charge controllers report battery voltage to the inverter's processor, so probably Infinis do too. Sounds like that's wrong too.
I want to know, if it is a Software Bug or Hardware issue?
Hard to be certain. The fact that two values are wrong suggests a software issue, but the fact that anything is reported at night certainly sounds like hardware to me. At least on PIP/Axperts, the solar charge controller is only supposed to be powered by the PV input, so it should be off at night. I would suspect that the output relay(s) is(are) stuck on, they should be isolating the solar charge controller from the battery. If one of them (they are probably wired in parallel) is stuck on, power might leak backwards to the SCC's processor, perhaps enough for it to run, but not enough for all the sensors to work properly.
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Re: Voltronic InfiniSolar Inverters

Post by rashid74 »

Thanks coulomb for quick response.

I think my statement was confusing "Charging voltage would stuck at 55v with 65-70watt pv output". I meant to say that controller shows PV2 input voltage as 55 and PV2 input power as 65-70 watts. The issue remains even after I disconnect PV2. PV1 behavior is fine.

It starts working fine after restart by turning off/on Battery supply.
I think it doesn't update PV2 voltage which results this issue.

I noticed another behavior that charge controller is not increasing battery voltage to Absorption (56.4). May be not required but :?

I did factory rest also but no luck.

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Re: Voltronic InfiniSolar Inverters

Post by coulomb »

rashid74 wrote: Tue, 13 Apr 2021, 11:51 The issue remains even after I disconnect PV2.

This is consistent with battery power back feeding through a stuck relay contact.
It starts working fine after restart by turning off/on Battery supply.
Also consistent. Removing battery power removes power from the SCC processor, which resets. Maybe this somehow causes the contact to open, or there is somehow no longer enough power to run the processor when the battery voltage returns.

Hopefully an owner can comment.
I noticed another behavior that charge controller is not increasing battery voltage to Absorption (56.4). May be not required but :?
Could it be the premature float bug? It sounds like the bug is alive and well in the Infini firmware as well. I suspect that your model of Infini is basically a PIP/Axpert with restraints on exporting power removed.

Is there an LED that changes behaviour when the charge stage changes to float? If so, does this change happen before the battery voltage reaches the absorb voltage? Perhaps soon after the battery voltage is near the float voltage setting?
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Re: Voltronic InfiniSolar Inverters

Post by rashid74 »

Appreciate again.
coulomb wrote: Tue, 13 Apr 2021, 19:20
rashid74 wrote: Tue, 13 Apr 2021, 11:51 The issue remains even after I disconnect PV2.

This is consistent with battery power back feeding through a stuck relay contact.
It starts working fine after restart by turning off/on Battery supply.
Also consistent. Removing battery power removes power from the SCC processor, which resets. Maybe this somehow causes the contact to open, or there is somehow no longer enough power to run the processor when the battery voltage returns.

Hopefully an owner can comment.
I noticed another behavior that charge controller is not increasing battery voltage to Absorption (56.4). May be not required but :?
Could it be the premature float bug? It sounds like the bug is alive and well in the Infini firmware as well. I suspect that your model of Infini is basically a PIP/Axpert with restraints on exporting power removed.

Is there an LED that changes behaviour when the charge stage changes to float? If so, does this change happen before the battery voltage reaches the absorb voltage? Perhaps soon after the battery voltage is near the float voltage setting?
I am using infini in Off-Grid mode and Utility is disconnected from controller. Usually my battery voltage remain above 50V but PV2 voltage are around 55V. If it clears more???

I am the owner here ;)
Infini V is same as Axpert but with utility feedback. Voltronic doesn't give any firmware to fix such issues too.
Battery charges till 54V normally with LED blinking but as soon it goes above, LED becomes Solid to show that Battery is Charged. My battery voltages doesn't go above 54.

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Re: Voltronic InfiniSolar Inverters

Post by coulomb »

rashid74 wrote: Tue, 13 Apr 2021, 19:51
Coulomb wrote:Hopefully an owner can comment.
I should have said hopefully another owner can comment.
Battery charges till 54V normally with LED blinking but as soon it goes above, LED becomes Solid to show that Battery is Charged. My battery voltages doesn't go above 54.
And I'm guessing that 54 V is pretty close to your float voltage. It's sounding very much like the classic premature float bug.
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Re: Voltronic InfiniSolar Inverters

Post by rashid74 »

Thanks again,

Yesterday I did a little test. I switched off my fridge when battery voltage was 50.4v, on turning it back on, initial FLA dropped voltage to approx 49v before going back above 50v.
This dip in voltage cut off PV2 Charging :shock: .

I think this finding is consistent with your finding of " battery power back feeding through a stuck relay contact". Please correct, if I am wrong.

If this is the case, MPPT charger has Two relays, should I get both replaced or one of them would be faulty?
I have uploaded an image also of MTTP modules (thanks to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Cy8xLLwlgE).

Regards,

Rashid
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Re: Voltronic InfiniSolar Inverters

Post by coulomb »

rashid74 wrote: Wed, 14 Apr 2021, 13:47 Yesterday I did a little test. I switched off my fridge when battery voltage was 50.4v, on turning it back on, initial FLA dropped voltage to approx 49v before going back above 50v.
This dip in voltage cut off PV2 Charging :shock: .
So this was during the day? Your first post talked about showing PV power several hours after sunset (if the translation is valid).
I think this finding is consistent with your finding of " battery power back feeding through a stuck relay contact".
No, I think that this is a different situation. This sounds more like the change in battery voltage was the trigger, not the solar charge controller running when it should not.
If this is the case, MPPT charger has Two relays, should I get both replaced or one of them would be faulty?
At this stage, it's not clear if the relays are faulty. But since the contacts are in parallel (needed to get sufficient current rating from printed circuit mounted relays), both would be subject to whatever damaged one, so if you replace one, it makes sense to replace them both.

Am I right in understanding that the main problem is the appearance of charging when at night, i.e. PV charging is impossible?

Having a solar charger disconnect briefly (for about ½ - 1 minute) after a sudden battery voltage dip, is actually normal. This is known as a "PV dip"; they have been discussed a bit in the last year or two, most recently in this topic on the Power Forum. The actual dip would have to be pretty substantial with unpatched firmware, if the Infini firmware is similar to that of PIP/Axperts in respect of switching from float to bulk charging.

[ Edit: Added "in respect of switching from float to bulk charging" at the end. ]
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Re: Voltronic InfiniSolar Inverters

Post by rashid74 »

Hi,

Yes, the test was done well after sunset.
Sudden battery voltage dip of 1.5v, disconnected charge controller during test after one hour from sunset. During day, same test didn't disconnect charger.

Yes, your understanding is right that the main problem is the appearance of charging when at night, i.e. when PV charging is impossible?

Tonight I will do the same test with different battery voltages right after sunset. will share results too.

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Re: Voltronic InfiniSolar Inverters

Post by coulomb »

rashid74 wrote: Wed, 14 Apr 2021, 17:47 Yes, the test was done well after sunset.
Oh. I wasn't expecting that.
Sudden battery voltage dip of 1.5v, disconnected charge controller during test after one hour from sunset.
Sorry to labour this, but I'd like to be totally clear on this point. The test was conducted after sunset, so it's expected that the solar charge controller would be disconnected, i.e. idle. The PV2 icon on the LC Display should be off, but before the test, it was not. PV1's icon, as expected, went off at sundown.

After the test, PV2's icon went off, as it should have been since sundown. So this test caused PV2 to behave as expected; it fixed the problem.

Please let me know if I have any details wrong in the above.
During day, same test didn't disconnect charger.
OK, but now, PV1 and PV2 icons are on, as expected. The test did not cause either of them to switch off, as is also expected.

The battery voltage should have no effect on the solar charge controller when there is no PV input. The fact that it did have an effect (even though it "fixed" the abnormal behaviour) suggests to me that yes, one or both of the output relays have their contacts conducting, at least partially. But the question is: is that because of stuck contacts, or is the solar charge controller turning on the relay when it should not? If the latter, where is the power coming from to turn on at least one of the relays?

The fact that it always seems to come good with cycling the power, or even just dipping the battery voltage, now suggests to me that the relay is being turned on when it should not. Or that the relay contacts are being bypassed by contamination or some sort of fault.

Replacing the relays is likely to be a modest cost and hassle, involving at least a wait for parts. I'd be tempted to first see if there is some sort of corrosion or other thing bridging the relay contacts. It could be inside the relay, or on either side of the printed circuit board. You have the luxury of a known-working unit right next to the faulty unit, so you can make measurements on one and compare it to the other. With nothing connected to the PV inputs, I'd expect at least 1 MΩ resistance across the relay contacts on the bench with nothing powered up. If it's more of the order of 1 kΩ, then that might be enough to power the solar charge controller computer chip, causing the symptoms. Of course, if it's zero resistance, then you really do have stuck contacts, but I don't see how it could recover every time when the power is cycled back ON. I suppose it could be intermittent, and just happened to come good every time you tried it.
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Re: Voltronic InfiniSolar Inverters

Post by rashid74 »

Hi,
Sorry to labour this, but I'd like to be totally clear on this point. The test was conducted after sunset, so it's expected that the solar charge controller would be disconnected, i.e. idle. The PV2 icon on the LC Display should be off, but before the test, it was not. PV1's icon, as expected, went off at sundown.

After the test, PV2's icon went off, as it should have been since sundown. So this test caused PV2 to behave as expected; it fixed the problem.
Your understanding is accurate.

Yesterday I did the same test again and it cutoff PV2 charging. Battery voltage was dropped from 50.8 to 49.4.
OK, but now, PV1 and PV2 icons are on, as expected. The test did not cause either of them to switch off, as is also expected.
True

I think, Relay is working fine. It operates on 12v and make/ break connection of PV to charger. The issue should be with the circuit which senses PV voltage and provide 12v to the relay. Somehow, may be due to weak circuit or a component, PV voltage sensing circuit is getting leaked Battery voltage and keeping relay connected..

I assume, will have to take it to service provider :oops:
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Re: Voltronic InfiniSolar Inverters

Post by coulomb »

rashid74 wrote: Thu, 15 Apr 2021, 18:58 I think, Relay is working fine. It operates on 12v and make/ break connection of PV to charger. The issue should be with the circuit which senses PV voltage and provide 12v to the relay. Somehow, may be due to weak circuit or a component, PV voltage sensing circuit is getting leaked Battery voltage and keeping relay connected..
The relay isn't at the PV input terminals, they are right at the output, just before the connection to the battery. Assuming they are like the Axpert in this respect.

Hence, if the relay contacts are open, and there is no leakage across those contacts, there is no battery connection at all. The power supply for the processor, relay, everything on the solar charge controller board is powered from the PV input. Which, presumably, has zero volts at night. The whole idea of the relays is to make sure that the solar charge controllers don't draw any power whatsoever at night.
I assume, will have to take it to service provider :oops:
While it's unusual, I don't see that the anomaly is actually doing any harm. Unless you consider messing up of data logs as being harmful.

So you could just put up with it.
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Re: Voltronic InfiniSolar Inverters

Post by rashid74 »

Thanks Coulomb, you have been very helpful.

Now, I am getting same issue with PV1 also :shock: :o

But have a workable alternative. Simply switch off and then on my fridge ;)

Keeping my fingers crossed for not any other issue.

Regards
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Re: Voltronic InfiniSolar Inverters

Post by rashid74 »

Once again Thanks Coulomb.
Your post in anther form https://powerforum.co.za/topic/1587-axp ... ing-issue/ where you defined "premature float bug" essence fixed my issue of not getting into Absorption (56.4) voltages.
For most cases, that threshold is a fifth of the maximum charge current setting
The issue was that Maximum Charge Current was set at 120A which was setting Threshold to 24. In my case, since batteries are not drained below 50v so they didn't require that much current.
Now I have set Maximum Charge current to 50A and controller is getting into Absorption :D :D

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Re: Voltronic InfiniSolar Inverters

Post by kartechnology »

Hi from India, I have a on-grid Voltronic InfiniSolar-V-5K-48v with a 190Ah Battery Bank for my home. Last few months on I am seeing the same issue as posted by the OP. The charge Controllers are not turning off at night and the SCC fans keep running. I am unable to figure out what is the cause. I have a similar setup in another place which has no such issue and working perfectly.
@coulomb Could you please help?

Image
Image
Image

But, if the inverter is completely turned off and turned back on, the SCC inputs are 0v. once after turning on solar mcbs and turning off they aren't going 0v again.

Thanks
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Re: Voltronic InfiniSolar Inverters

Post by kartechnology »

@coulomb Also I run the stock firmware, and going mad if I am affected by the premature float bug. the batteries are Leoch Pure Lead Carbon PLH+C sealed batteries. and I rarely cycle them fully. charging current normally 20A is okay for me, though it is capable of charging within 2 hrs with a higher charge current...
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Re: Voltronic InfiniSolar Inverters

Post by kartechnology »

rashid74 wrote: Mon, 19 Apr 2021, 16:16 Thanks Coulomb, you have been very helpful.

Now, I am getting same issue with PV1 also :shock: :o

But have a workable alternative. Simply switch off and then on my fridge ;)

Keeping my fingers crossed for not any other issue.

Regards
As you told I turned off grid and turned on a 2000w heater on battery mode.
i saw the SCC voltages dropping and the charger state going to not charging and then Off, with voltages dropping gradually to 0v and then the SCC got off. battery v from 54.3 to 50.5v
did you find a solution for this?

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Last edited by kartechnology on Fri, 04 Jun 2021, 03:09, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Voltronic InfiniSolar Inverters

Post by coulomb »

kartechnology wrote: Fri, 04 Jun 2021, 01:59 The charge Controllers are not turning off at night
That sounds familiar. [ Edit: it was Rashid, earlier in this very topic. ] I suspected leakage across the relay contacts on the SCC board (the relay contacts are in parallel, and at the very output of the SCC, just before the connection to the battery). Either leakage, or something is holding one or both of the relays closed, or the contacts are sticking. I assume that the Infini-V SCCs are similar to the PIP-MS SCCs.
and the SCC fans keep running. I am unable to figure out what is the cause.
Power to run the fan and the SCC microcontroller must presumably be coming from the battery; the relay contacts are supposed to prevent this.
But, if the inverter is completely turned off and turned back on, the SCC inputs are 0v. once after turning on solar mcbs and turning off they aren't going 0v again.
That sounds to me like something is holding the relay(s) on. This will allow battery power to keep them holding in, and this will perpetuate the situation. When you turn the inverter off completely, presumably the battery is disconnected, removing the power to hold the relay in. So it behaves, until you connect PV again during the day; then there is enough power to turn on the relay (for reasons unclear), and then battery power can maintain the relay on, even at night or with the PV breakers off.

I see the inverter is reporting 62.4 V at the PV1 input; presumably that was at night. 62.4 V is higher than you would expect the battery to ever reach; what do you measure at PV1 input under these conditions? I'm suspecting that the PV voltage measurement is bad. There are usually multiple resistors involved, all of value 1 MΩ or higher. So the slightest leakage due to moisture, damp dust, or simply aged components could be throwing off the measurements, if the conformal coating has failed. Perhaps check around those resistors on the SCC boards, if you can find them. As with Rashid's problem, you have a second SCC to compare against, even if it doesn't have panels connected (you might want to connect some panels or a lab power supply for testing).

[ Edit May 2023: I no longer believe that when the relays are closed, the power supply in the SCC should be off. Once the power supply in a 145 V max SCC is on, it keeps itself on using power from the battery. My guess is that t stays on until a command from the SCC's MCU turns it off. I have traced the part where the DSP can prevent solar power from starting the power supply again. I'd say that this command also turns off the power supply via the COMP input of U3 or similar. ]

[ Added phrase including "aged components". ]
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Re: Voltronic InfiniSolar Inverters

Post by coulomb »

kartechnology wrote: Fri, 04 Jun 2021, 02:22 going mad if I am affected by the premature float bug.
If you're asking for patched firmware, it's theoretically possible, but I don't collect Infini firmwares any more. At the bare minimum, you'd have to find a firmware update file that is suitable for your model, but even then I seem to recall that I had a quick look for the premature float bug in Infini firmware years ago, and found that the code was too different to recognise where to patch it. The Infini-V models, since they seem to be so similar to PIP-MS/Axperts, might be easier to fix. But I'm short for time at present, and this sort of thing can soak up a lot of time.
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Re: Voltronic InfiniSolar Inverters

Post by coulomb »

kartechnology wrote: Fri, 04 Jun 2021, 02:32 i saw the SCC voltages dropping and the charger state going to not charging and then Off, with voltages dropping gradually to 0v and then the SCC got off.
The gradual fall of SCC voltage is puzzling. It looks like the PV voltage falls to zero over something like a minute. I haven't done a calculation, but that seems very slow for a capacitor driving a relay coil.
did you find a solution for this?
No, and I can't recall if Rashid found some sort of work around or fix; I don't think so.
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Re: Voltronic InfiniSolar Inverters

Post by kartechnology »

@coulomb

The SCC voltages are wrong. after sunset SCC1 reports corresponding battery voltage on terminal but inverter reports it higher by 8 to 9v
SCC2 reports correct voltage but there is stray voltage as shown in the pic.

during day time, both SCC are in variation of 9-8volts.(both having 375w panels in 2S4P), usually there are very close.


Image

Along with this, i tested by battery capacity with a 60amp drain, they are 190ah batteries which should as per spec able to give 3 hours for a 60 amp draw..but it lasted 15 mins,
under checking found the battery at the last end of + terminal voltage was dropping rapidly to 8v, the battery next to it at 12.1 and the other 2 at 12.7v.

the batteries are 9 months old. during beginning of the setup, 2 batteries were at 12.83 and other 2 at 12.78, and they were not equalized before commissioning. later on the backup was as per spec so forgot about it.
I'm not sure if this SCC issue has been draining my batteries all night and giving it a slow death.
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1) FlinInfini Lite 5kw(Voltronic InfiniSolar V 5k)
Longi Mono 375Wp ~6kw
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Re: Voltronic InfiniSolar Inverters

Post by coulomb »

kartechnology wrote: Sun, 06 Jun 2021, 20:18 during day time, both SCC are in variation of 9-8volts.(both having 375w panels in 2S4P), usually there are very close.
Since they read fairly close during the day, I'd guess that the measurement is OK, as long as there is full voltage at the SCC power supply. 53 V would be lower than the SCC power supply is designed to operate. I'm a little surprised that there is so much error, though.

The 8 V from the good SCC would be from rectifying hum and other induced junk on the panel wiring, perhaps a little output from the panels due to street lights or moonlight. At about 8 V, the SCC power supply would start to draw more than micro-amps, pegging the voltage there. The SCCs are designed to report 0.00V for measurements less than about 40 V, from memory.

So the big question is: how is the battery voltage getting to the SCC input? In particular, are one of the relays being turned on or stuck on? Or is there leakage across the contacts?
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Re: Voltronic InfiniSolar Inverters

Post by kartechnology »

Manufacturer has told to send the unit for service.. Will send it next month. It will take 10 days
The relays do turn off when the inverter is fully turned off. So it must be some leakage I guess. It reads scc 70v manually but display shows as 70+10v...at night its batteryV+10v


another thing is battery being maintained at float level with grid charger off. getting charging from moonlight? :D
1) FlinInfini Lite 5kw(Voltronic InfiniSolar V 5k)
Longi Mono 375Wp ~6kw
Exide Lead Acid - SolaTubular 6LMS150 x8 (300Ah)

2) FlinInfini Lite 5kw(Voltronic InfiniSolar V 5k)
Longi Mono 380Wp ~6kw
Leoch Pure Lead Carbon PLH+C 190Ah

India
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