Hyundai will recall Kona EV models over faulty battery cells

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LORAX
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Re: Hyundai will recall Kona EV models over faulty battery cells

Post by LORAX »

So last night was our first time charging to full using the standard house powerpoint (10A charger). We have a Aug 2020 build date.

When the other half checked the charging this morning, it was sitting just over 90% and the charging was 0.5 kW and then changed back up to to 2.4 kW. We suspect that our car has the software update applied as described above. We are getting a device (EVSE) that will be able to monitor the charge current so we might get a better idea then.
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Re: Hyundai will recall Kona EV models over faulty battery cells

Post by Peter C in Canberra »

LORAX wrote: Sat, 31 Oct 2020, 08:48 ...When the other half checked the charging this morning, it was sitting just over 90% and the charging was 0.5 kW and then changed back up to to 2.4 kW...
It has always been normal behaviour for the charging to briefly drop back when you unlock or open the door or perhaps even just look at it. I have assumed that is because the car thinks you might be about to unplug so it reduces the current so that you don't get arcing damage on the plug contacts.
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Re: Hyundai will recall Kona EV models over faulty battery cells

Post by davidEV »

Yes I received my Recall software update notice for my Kona July 2019 model. It is recommended a maximum charge of 90% until software update is performed. After the update charge time may increase in certain circumstances. My take on this is that some cells get out of charge balance in certain circumstances. In my opinion the charge balancing struggles and under certain circumstances some cells over charge with disastrous results. The hand book on page H5 states "If the high voltage battery charge is below 20%, you can keep the high voltage battery performance in optimal condition if you charge the high voltage battery to 100% (Once a month or more is recommended) . IMO if all cells are equally charged then the battery pack is in optimal condition. I must admit, I do not adhere to the once a month charge cycle thing. Going back a couple of months I let the battery charge go to a bit under 20% and then took it up to 100%. Because I charge from only solar, it suited the system to charge the last 4% at 600 Watts by setting the Hyundai charger to 6 amp AC and car charge rate to minimum.
Regards David
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Re: Hyundai will recall Kona EV models over faulty battery cells

Post by Peter C in Canberra »

Yes. Good thought. Cells out of balance could be the 'BMS fault', which would be a different matter from cells prone to shorting due to a manufacturing fault, which would be LG's fault, which might explain the reports of Hyundai and LG being in dispute about whose fault it is. Perhaps the pauses at 80% and 90% are to do some cell balancing where individual cell voltages would be starting to rise appreciably on any cells that are out of balance at a higher state of charge than the rest.
I like the idea that the problem could be just to do with cell balancing because that really could be fixed just with software.
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Re: Hyundai will recall Kona EV models over faulty battery cells

Post by syntaxfx »

I've Also received my notice.
Clearly, Hyundai are, quite rightly, playing it safe, but there must be a better solution than a software change ( 100+ more lines of code just can't be wrong :lol: ) when they imply that there's a hardware issue.

Has Hyundai really identified the actual cause of those fires or is this a data fishing exercise (esp. Highlander models with the "free" Hyundai dongle)?

As someone who does a lot of long distance travel, I can't help but be disappointed that the charging time will now be 10 minutes longer when I need more than 80% and 20 minutes longer when I need over 90% to reach the next charger.
It's not what I was promised in the literature when I bought the car.
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Re: Hyundai will recall Kona EV models over faulty battery cells

Post by Peter C in Canberra »

syntaxfx wrote: Sun, 01 Nov 2020, 08:06 ... when they imply that there's a hardware issue.
Has Hyundai really identified the actual cause of those fires or is this a data fishing exercise...
I wonder if they really don't know if it is a software issue to do with the BMS program not allowing enough time for cell balancing or charging too close to 100% before starting some balancing so some cells can still get over charged in some circumstances or a defect in some cells that only shows up at a very high state of charge (because it would have shown up already if it was a problem at a normal cell voltage) or a combination of the two.

I am hoping that it turns out that the cells are generally fine but the BMS controls really just need a tweak. Perhaps the BMS could be programmed to learn whether the pauses at 80% and 90% can be shortened depending on how well balanced the cells appear at those stop points. Perhaps eventually a charge to 100% will be longer if one has not done one for a while but will be shorter if one has done one recently.
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Re: Hyundai will recall Kona EV models over faulty battery cells

Post by bje »

The https://www.hyundai.com/au/en/owning/safety-recalls page now shows my Kona as having a recall for the BMS software. Others who have not received an email from Hyundai might like to check the website instead.
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Re: Hyundai will recall Kona EV models over faulty battery cells

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Peter C in Canberra wrote: Sun, 01 Nov 2020, 09:07
I wonder if they really don't know if it is a software issue to do with the BMS program not allowing enough time for cell balancing or charging too close to 100% before starting some balancing so some cells can still get over charged in some circumstances or a defect in some cells that only shows up at a very high state of charge (because it would have shown up already if it was a problem at a normal cell voltage) or a combination of the two.

I am hoping that it turns out that the cells are generally fine but the BMS controls really just need a tweak. Perhaps the BMS could be programmed to learn whether the pauses at 80% and 90% can be shortened depending on how well balanced the cells appear at those stop points. Perhaps eventually a charge to 100% will be longer if one has not done one for a while but will be shorter if one has done one recently.
Given the quickest way to drive a Kona electric interstate is to NOT charge beyond 80% (as in I didn't want to wait the same time again as the 0 - 80% time ... :-), the added 10 or 20 min is unlikely to have much effect on me.

Am still a bit disappointed that, even in limited circumstances, Hyundai are extending the charge times ... Suspect they are using an 'overabundance of caution' to the issue though. Times may reduce with another software update at a later date when they are more confident.

Cheers
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Re: Hyundai will recall Kona EV models over faulty battery cells

Post by Peter C in Canberra »

Bryce wrote: Sun, 01 Nov 2020, 10:35
Peter C in Canberra wrote: Sun, 01 Nov 2020, 09:07
... I am hoping that it turns out that the cells are generally fine but the BMS controls really just need a tweak ...
Given the quickest way to drive a Kona electric interstate is to NOT charge beyond 80% (as in I didn't want to wait the same time again as the 0 - 80% time ... :-), the added 10 or 20 min is unlikely to have much effect on me.
Am still a bit disappointed that, even in limited circumstances, Hyundai are extending the charge times ... Suspect they are using an 'overabundance of caution' to the issue though. Times may reduce with another software update at a later date when they are more confident.
That is my usage pattern too. I only ever charge to 100% on slow AC if I am planning a trip out of town the next day. Otherwise the car is set to stop at 80%. Depending on the trip, there might be slow AC to 100% again overnight at a destination. Along the way, I rarely would charge DC beyond 80% because it is quicker to partially charge again a few hours further down the road. Still I do tend to give the car and DC charger the option to go to 100% so it is doing something useful if lunch goes longer than expected.

I wonder if some Kona batteries are more out of balance than expected because some people only rarely need to do a 100% charge because the battery capacity is so large? I know I can go for months just running up and down between 50% and 80%. If the battery is only ever top balanced, perhaps the balancing that they had been doing is not enough in some instances?
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Re: Hyundai will recall Kona EV models over faulty battery cells

Post by Rusdy »

Bryce wrote: Sun, 01 Nov 2020, 10:35
Peter C in Canberra wrote: Sun, 01 Nov 2020, 09:07
... Perhaps the BMS could be programmed to learn whether the pauses at 80% and 90% can be shortened depending on how well balanced the cells appear at those stop points...
...
Am still a bit disappointed that, even in limited circumstances, Hyundai are extending the charge times ...
Good point, I wonder how slower will it be if Hyundai going to slow it down. The knee point at 70% is so useful. I wonder whether this will shift...

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Re: Hyundai will recall Kona EV models over faulty battery cells

Post by davidEV »

I just looked at speakev and the way I read it, the update will shut the kona down if the high voltage battery is too far out of balance in the cells. Below is a pasted page from the speakev site.

Not clear if this happenned immediately after the update or at some point later. I was told by the Hyundai tech that fixed my update that one car in the UK had a battery replaced after the update found the cell deviation too high when the update was installed

Regards David
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Re: Hyundai will recall Kona EV models over faulty battery cells

Post by syntaxfx »

davidEV wrote: Sun, 01 Nov 2020, 18:32 I just looked at speakev and the way I read it, the update will shut the kona down if the high voltage battery is too far out of balance in the cells. Below is a pasted page from the speakev site.

Not clear if this happenned immediately after the update or at some point later. I was told by the Hyundai tech that fixed my update that one car in the UK had a battery replaced after the update found the cell deviation too high when the update was installed

Regards David
That could be downright inconvenient.
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Phil
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Re: Hyundai will recall Kona EV models over faulty battery cells

Post by reecho »

Rusdy wrote: Sun, 01 Nov 2020, 17:14
Bryce wrote: Sun, 01 Nov 2020, 10:35
Peter C in Canberra wrote: Sun, 01 Nov 2020, 09:07
... Perhaps the BMS could be programmed to learn whether the pauses at 80% and 90% can be shortened depending on how well balanced the cells appear at those stop points...
...
Am still a bit disappointed that, even in limited circumstances, Hyundai are extending the charge times ...
Good point, I wonder how slower will it be if Hyundai going to slow it down. The knee point at 70% is so useful. I wonder whether this will shift...

Image
That charging behaviour was modified with the 4 in 1 update that was released April 2019. After the update the car charged at higher rates for longer, but not dramatically so. The 4 in 1 update has no disapeared for my car and the recall is in it's place on the MyHyundai webpage.
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Re: Hyundai will recall Kona EV models over faulty battery cells

Post by Roger-c »

The dealership in Hobart just called me to book it in for the software update. As I live on the north west coast of Tas, I told him, they need to send someone to me to do it, because I'm not doing a 600km round trip for a 5 minute software update.
Hyundai should have made the car updatable over the internet, like Teslas are.
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Re: Hyundai will recall Kona EV models over faulty battery cells

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Roger-c wrote: Thu, 05 Nov 2020, 12:00 The dealership in Hobart just called me to book it in for the software update. As I live on the north west coast of Tas, I told him, they need to send someone to me to do it, because I'm not doing a 600km round trip for a 5 minute software update.
Hyundai should have made the car updatable over the internet, like Teslas are.
It can be a problem. Some people also would need to take a day off work, lose a days pay, and really annoy your boss and colleagues by leaving them in the lurch at peak season.
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Re: Hyundai will recall Kona EV models over faulty battery cells

Post by Peter C in Canberra »

brunohill wrote: Thu, 05 Nov 2020, 18:53
Roger-c wrote: Thu, 05 Nov 2020, 12:00 The dealership in Hobart just called me to book it in for the software update. As I live on the north west coast of Tas, I told him, they need to send someone to me to do it, because I'm not doing a 600km round trip for a 5 minute software update.
Hyundai should have made the car updatable over the internet, like Teslas are.
It can be a problem. Some people also would need to take a day off work, lose a days pay, and really annoy your boss and colleagues by leaving them in the lurch at peak season.
There was a comment on the Facebook Hyundai EV page that someone asked if any Hyundai dealer could install the update, not necessarily a 'Blue Drive' dealer, and they were told that another dealer could do it.
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Re: Hyundai will recall Kona EV models over faulty battery cells

Post by Bryce »

I must admit I am not too worried about the recall. I have a 12 month service due soon, will bring it forward a few weeks and get them both done then.

Actually find the recall less annoying than a tyre puncture in a Kona (no spare wheel). To avoid having to wait for it to be done in Covid times (not allowed in at all, let alone a waiting room in Melbourne stage 4!) - I had to jack the Kona up, leave it on an axle stand and drive the spare car with the offending wheel to the tyre shop. A 5 min software update does not seem anywhere as annoying as that!

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P.S. Watch this space: am currently setting the Kona up to carry a space saver tyre .... ;-)
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Re: Hyundai will recall Kona EV models over faulty battery cells

Post by LORAX »

Very keen on the space saver tyre - we do a weekly 600km round trip, so the repair kit is my anxiety not range.
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Re: Hyundai will recall Kona EV models over faulty battery cells

Post by Maustrauser »

I had my 1500km free service done at the same time as the recall yesterday at Lennock in Phillip (Woden). Done in a jiffy and they charged my battery up to 80 from 51%% while it was being done. Not many ICE dealers fill your car as part of the service.
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Re: Hyundai will recall Kona EV models over faulty battery cells

Post by Peter C in Canberra »

Perhaps part of the recall includes a charge to 80% to check all is well? They have not given me a charge on other visits.
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Re: Hyundai will recall Kona EV models over faulty battery cells

Post by Maustrauser »

Hmm. Good point. It certainly wouldn't hurt the marketing of the vehicle by doing so. It would hardly cost them much.
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Re: Hyundai will recall Kona EV models over faulty battery cells

Post by syntaxfx »

I had the update done last Friday morning and then went to charge the car at 350kW charger with Car Scanner Pro plugged in to monitor things.
So:
1) Charged to 85% SoC Display, 83% SoC BMS. There was no pause at 80% as advertised. I noted the cell voltage deviation went to 0.02V at about the 79% mark, but the BMS had it back to zero in under a minute. Charge rate was 56kW, but the temp. was around 19 deg. C at the start of charging and that's generally the speed I get at that temp.
2) Charged again overnight on a 7kW charger. Went from low 70s to 90% SoC Display (about 88% SoC BMS). I checked the solar monitor later (it shows grid consumption) and couldn't see any pause at 80% or above.
So, I'm not sure what the story is...
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Re: Hyundai will recall Kona EV models over faulty battery cells

Post by barwonev »

syntaxfx wrote: Tue, 10 Nov 2020, 09:41 I had the update done last Friday morning and then went to charge the car at 350kW charger with Car Scanner Pro plugged in to monitor things.
So:
1) Charged to 85% SoC Display, 83% SoC BMS. There was no pause at 80% as advertised. I noted the cell voltage deviation went to 0.02V at about the 79% mark, but the BMS had it back to zero in under a minute. Charge rate was 56kW, but the temp. was around 19 deg. C at the start of charging and that's generally the speed I get at that temp.
2) Charged again overnight on a 7kW charger. Went from low 70s to 90% SoC Display (about 88% SoC BMS). I checked the solar monitor later (it shows grid consumption) and couldn't see any pause at 80% or above.
So, I'm not sure what the story is...
On the InsideEV forum no one has reported any pauses when charging after update. One user suggested that.....
"Maybe the pause only happens when/if cell balancing happens and until it is complete. If all is good, the pause may be negligible. Can't see that just a check by the software should take 10 min. Computers are fast."
Cheers,
Brian
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Re: Hyundai will recall Kona EV models over faulty battery cells

Post by KylieKona »

Got the recall software upgraded on Tuesday. Drove about 50 kms, then charged to 100% overnight. In the morning, received the dreaded Check EV system. Interwebs said to disconnect the 12v for 5-10 minutes, which did not help. I called dealer then customer care to get roadside. No change, and the car was towed to dealer. We are now awaiting a new battery management module. Sounds like the software update is designed to prevent the battery cells from being overloaded, and to detect ones that have. This may be a giant precaution, but it's entirely possible I could have been looking like that guy in Canada. 13 fires so far. GET THIS UPGRADE AND DO NOT WAIT. My suggestion is to get them to charge it to 100% whilst they have it, to prevent you having to get it towed back in. And arrange a loaner car - they are providing these. Living on the cutting edge of technology has its setbacks. I've included some links from my research.
http://koreabizwire.com/problems-contin ... all/173350
https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2020 ... ires.shtml
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Re: Hyundai will recall Kona EV models over faulty battery cells

Post by KylieKona »

Roger-c wrote: Fri, 30 Oct 2020, 19:51 Yeah, I got this email today too.

I'm not going to do it. Especially as I would have to drive 300km to the dealer. They can come to me, at my house if they want to do it.
Roger, please don't wait. Mine was tagged as faulty - they are replacing it now. Loaners available.
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