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Kona AC charging question

Posted: Mon, 30 Sep 2019, 14:03
by Peter C in Canberra
I have a Kona electric on order so I don't yet have an instruction book to read. I have a couple of charging questions.
1) If I am charging from (say) a 32A or greater EVSE, so the car could be AC charging as fast as it is capable of charging, is there an option inside the car to select a slower charge rate? Eg. Could I tell the car to only charge at 15A or 10A even though the external EVSE would allow more?
2) Is setting an AC charging end point completely adjustable? Eg. Could I set AC charging at home to stop when the battery is 80% full but have it stop at 95% full elsewhere?

Re: Kona AC charging question

Posted: Mon, 30 Sep 2019, 16:00
by brendon_m
Any reason you want a slower charge rate? Its only a 7kw on board charger which is ~0.1c of the pack(64kwh), you're not going to shorten the life of the battery at the max AC charge rate

Re: Kona AC charging question

Posted: Mon, 30 Sep 2019, 16:08
by Peter C in Canberra
brendon_m wrote:
Mon, 30 Sep 2019, 16:00
Any reason you want a slower charge rate? Its only a 7kw on board charger which is ~0.1c of the pack(64kwh), you're not going to shorten the life of the battery at the max AC charge rate
Yes, I realise that. I have an cable that I could use at BYO cable public charging outlets but a sticker says it is rated for 20A. It was from the days when nothing took more than 15A. I won't use such cables very often, I expect, so I don't want to buy a 32A-rated cable at a cost of several hundred dollars if I could use the cable I have and dial back the charge rate to 20A in the car.
Also, looking a charging locations in Plugshare.com, I have seen at least one where someone noted that a notionally 32A outlet kept tripping at anything over 20A, so it can be useful to dial back occasionally.

Re: Kona AC charging question

Posted: Mon, 30 Sep 2019, 18:04
by brendon_m
Fair enough, if the car doesn't have the function maybe you could add an acv2 in line some how. It'll probably cause the whole lot to have a meltdown and start crying in the corner. I dunno, I'm just spit balling ideas

Re: Kona AC charging question

Posted: Mon, 30 Sep 2019, 19:22
by Bryce
Any EVSE set to a lower limit will be fine. I built my 3.6kW portable EVSE specifically for caravan park 15A outlets. Worked perfectly on the EV Long Weekend tour with my Kona. 😊 BTW, from memory the Kona itself can be set for lower charge rates if you want it to.
Cheers
Bryce

Re: Kona AC charging question

Posted: Mon, 30 Sep 2019, 19:56
by Peter C in Canberra
Bryce wrote:
Mon, 30 Sep 2019, 19:22
Any EVSE set to a lower limit will be fine. I built my 3.6kW portable EVSE specifically for caravan park 15A outlets. Worked perfectly on the EV Long Weekend tour with my Kona. 😊 BTW, from memory the Kona itself can be set for lower charge rates if you want it to.
Cheers
Bryce
Thanks. I realise the Kona, in common with EVs generally, will comply if the EVSE sets a limit to charging current that is less than the maximum it could do. I was wondering if it was possible to set a limit <32A within the car, regardless of what the EVSE says. Eg. In my Holden Volt, I can tell it to do 6A or 10A if it is on a 10A EVSE.
Since my initial question, via a random survey of 32A three phase outlets on Plugshare, I have found a few more sites that seem to have 20A breakers in spite of a 32A socket. While an adjustable limit EVSE would fix the problem, I remain curious about whether the car provides a means to limit current in settings.

Re: Kona AC charging question

Posted: Mon, 30 Sep 2019, 20:06
by reecho
How about some light reading while you are waiting for the car to arrive... :-)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TVoPjJ ... sp=sharing

And yes you can set the ACcharging current lower via the onboard menu. minimum is around 50% of max if I recall...

Re: Kona AC charging question

Posted: Mon, 30 Sep 2019, 20:08
by reecho
Peter C in Canberra wrote:
Mon, 30 Sep 2019, 19:56
Bryce wrote:
Mon, 30 Sep 2019, 19:22
Any EVSE set to a lower limit will be fine. I built my 3.6kW portable EVSE specifically for caravan park 15A outlets. Worked perfectly on the EV Long Weekend tour with my Kona. 😊 BTW, from memory the Kona itself can be set for lower charge rates if you want it to.
Cheers
Bryce
Thanks. I realise the Kona, in common with EVs generally, will comply if the EVSE sets a limit to charging current that is less than the maximum it could do. I was wondering if it was possible to set a limit <32A within the car, regardless of what the EVSE says. Eg. In my Holden Volt, I can tell it to do 6A or 10A if it is on a 10A EVSE.
Since my initial question, via a random survey of 32A three phase outlets on Plugshare, I have found a few more sites that seem to have 20A breakers in spite of a 32A socket. While an adjustable limit EVSE would fix the problem, I remain curious about whether the car provides a means to limit current in settings.
Thats the problem. According to AS3000 that's a no-no. 20A breaker should be mated to a 20A socket..

Re: Kona AC charging question

Posted: Mon, 30 Sep 2019, 20:27
by brendon_m
reecho wrote:
Mon, 30 Sep 2019, 20:08
Thats the problem. According to AS3000 that's a no-no. 20A breaker should be mated to a 20A socket..
Pfffft, you people and your "rules"

Re: Kona AC charging question

Posted: Mon, 30 Sep 2019, 20:35
by Peter C in Canberra
reecho wrote:
Mon, 30 Sep 2019, 20:06
...some light reading...
Thanks. I'll do some reading.

Re: Kona AC charging question

Posted: Mon, 30 Sep 2019, 21:59
by antiscab
If your byo 20A cable is type 2 compliant, the car will limit itself to the lesser of the cable or the evse current rating automatically.

Re: Kona AC charging question

Posted: Tue, 01 Oct 2019, 07:49
by Peter C in Canberra
antiscab wrote:
Mon, 30 Sep 2019, 21:59
If your byo 20A cable is type 2 compliant, the car will limit itself to the lesser of the cable or the evse current rating automatically.
Thanks for that. I had not realised that cables also communicated their current limits like an EVSE.

Hmm. Not sure if it has any such smarts in it, perhaps in the plug at the post end. It is a type 2 to type 1 cable that I was thinking to use with a type 1 to type 2 barrel adaptor on the end, the same adaptor I was thinking to use at type 1 captive cable public charging outlets. I was given the cable after its owner was unable to get it to work with his 2010 iMiEV. It had been issued by Better Place with 2010 iMiEVs. I found it had non-standard components and connections in the plug at the car end at the communication wires intended to spoof a car doing EVSE talk, which the 2010 iMiEVs didn't do. Those had worked with some Better Place public charging posts but stopped working, perhaps when they were taken over and updated by ACTEW in Canberra. When I took those components out of the plug and wired things normally for a type 1 plug, it then behaved normally to charge a 2012 iMiEV and a Volt.

It will be an interesting experiment to see if the cable does impose a limit of 20A or allows 32A with the Kona. The cable seems pretty hefty so perhaps the 20A rating was conservative or just to reflect that it was supposed to be specific for the 2010 iMiEV, which would not pull more than 15A. The 20A rating is on a sticker rather than something embossed on the cable. I'll check with an EV-savvy electrician friend to see whether he thinks the cable is suitable for 32A after looking inside the plug at its construction and wire gauge.

Re: Kona AC charging question

Posted: Tue, 01 Oct 2019, 09:20
by antiscab
Peter C in Canberra wrote:
Tue, 01 Oct 2019, 07:49
Not sure if it has any such smarts in it, perhaps in the plug at the post end. It is a type 2 to type 1 cable that I was thinking to use with a type 1 to type 2 barrel adaptor on the end, the same adaptor I was thinking to use at type 1 captive cable public charging outlets. I was given the cable after its owner was unable to get it to work with his 2010 iMiEV. It had been issued by Better Place with 2010 iMiEVs. I found it had non-standard components and connections in the plug at the car end at the communication wires intended to spoof a car doing EVSE talk, which the 2010 iMiEVs didn't do. Those had worked with some Better Place public charging posts but stopped working, perhaps when they were taken over and updated by ACTEW in Canberra. When I took those components out of the plug and wired things normally for a type 1 plug, it then behaved normally to charge a 2012 iMiEV and a Volt.
In that case, there's nothing to signal to the car that the cable capacity is limited
type 2 to type 2 cables have a resistor on the control pins to indicate max capacity

what's the conductor size on your cable?
if it's 6mm2 or more than it will be fine for 32A

you're probably better selling your present cable to a 2012 imiev or leaf owner and getting a proper 32A type 2 cable

Re: Kona AC charging question

Posted: Tue, 01 Oct 2019, 10:49
by photomac
Smaller, second Instruction book [Kona Electric]
1 Manual Cover.JPG
1 Manual Cover.JPG (156.76 KiB) Viewed 883 times

Page 2-10 & 2-11
2 Manual 2-10.JPG
2 Manual 2-10.JPG (423.66 KiB) Viewed 883 times

Choice of three levels descriptive not quantitative.
4 Screen Home.JPG
4 Screen Home.JPG (314.23 KiB) Viewed 883 times
5 Screen EV.JPG
5 Screen EV.JPG (359.27 KiB) Viewed 883 times
9 Screen Steps.jpg
9 Screen Steps.jpg (900.87 KiB) Viewed 883 times

My Wall Charger has two settings, fast = 7.2kW & Eco=1.2kw.
This may indicate 7.2/3.6/1.2 for Max/medium/minimun

Re: Kona AC charging question

Posted: Tue, 01 Oct 2019, 15:36
by Peter C in Canberra
photomac wrote:
Tue, 01 Oct 2019, 10:49
My Wall Charger has two settings, fast = 7.2kW & Eco=1.2kw.
This may indicate 7.2/3.6/1.2 for Max/medium/minimun
Thanks. I wonder if max/medium/minimum just means (say) 100%/75%/50% (or some other percentages) relative to whatever maximum the EVSE sets? Anyway, glad to know the car does something like this. I'll find out what it actually means numerically in due course.
Thanks, again

Re: Kona AC charging question

Posted: Thu, 03 Oct 2019, 19:08
by EVdownUnder
The charging rate is not an exact science... I tried last night on a 22kW Tesla charger in Warrnambool and here is what I got:
  • Maximum = 7.6kW
    Reduced = 6.9kW
    Minimum = 4.8kW
Cheers,
Patrick