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Kona Charging at Fast Chargers

Posted: Wed, 28 Aug 2019, 21:52
by photomac
Interesting that the RACQ Tritium 350kW chargers were only putting 73kW into Kona. https://youtu.be/nyZ4ddiiDng

Re: Kona Charging at Fast Chargers

Posted: Thu, 29 Aug 2019, 05:20
by Bryce
That's because the Kona is only 70kW max for DC charge. (Allows the perfect time for a relaxed breakfast and/or coffee if doing a major charge on a long trip. :) )

Re: Kona Charging at Fast Chargers

Posted: Fri, 30 Aug 2019, 14:27
by photomac
Bryce wrote:
Thu, 29 Aug 2019, 05:20
That's because the Kona is only 70kW max for DC charge. (Allows the perfect time for a relaxed breakfast and/or coffee if doing a major charge on a long trip. :) )
Thanks!
Oh ... I thought I had read 100kW ... is that AC at 100kW and DC at 70kW and onboard at 7.2kw?

Re: Kona Charging at Fast Chargers

Posted: Fri, 30 Aug 2019, 14:50
by jonescg
Well done on your Kona purchase Matt! Swapped the plates over already :)

Re: Kona Charging at Fast Chargers

Posted: Fri, 30 Aug 2019, 19:32
by reecho
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Re: Kona Charging at Fast Chargers

Posted: Fri, 30 Aug 2019, 20:26
by coulomb
photomac wrote:
Fri, 30 Aug 2019, 14:27
Oh ... I thought I had read 100kW ... is that AC at 100kW and DC at 70kW and onboard at 7.2kw?
AC charging is always through the on board charger (OBC). That's limited to 7.2 kW, so AC charging is limited to 7.2 kW. To get a higher AC charging rate, the on board charger would have to be upgraded.

So the 100 kW figure has to be for DC (essentially, direct into the battery). One limitation is the maximum current that the DC charger (external to the vehicle) and its liquid cooled cable etc can handle. 350 kW (as I understand it) is only when delivering 1000 V, i.e. 1000 V × 350 A = 350 kW. But the Kona's battery will (should!!) never be near 1000 V; if it's at 360 V, then the charger limit is 360 V x 350 A = 126 kW. So that's not the limitation. My guess is that the 100 kW figure is a theoretical one, with the battery voltage nearer 400 V, yet perfectly balanced, no cells in voltage or temperature stress, and a little stretching for marketing purposes. To get an actual real-world 77 kW charge rate is pretty good, and under better conditions, maybe someone will record a little more than that.

Re: Kona Charging at Fast Chargers

Posted: Fri, 30 Aug 2019, 20:32
by brendon_m
I think the 100kW comes from hyundai saying "charges to 80% in X minutes when connected to a 100kW dc charger".
The car is only rated to 70?kW but you won't get that from a 50kW charger, you need a 100kW (for obvious reasons)
So marketing speak at it's finest

Re: Kona Charging at Fast Chargers

Posted: Sat, 31 Aug 2019, 07:39
by Bryce
You're spot-on Brenden: I remember reading the Hyundai 'data' of X% charge at 100kW station and thinking they were stretching the friendship with the facts a tad.

Kona has a max DC charge rate of 70kW, so if fast chargers are done in steps of 50, then you need a 100kW (or greater) charger to get the fastest rate (of 70kW) into it.

Cheers
Bryce

Re: Kona Charging at Fast Chargers

Posted: Sat, 31 Aug 2019, 08:06
by Peter C in Canberra
brendon_m wrote:
Fri, 30 Aug 2019, 20:32
I think the 100kW comes from hyundai saying "charges to 80% in X minutes when connected to a 100kW dc charger".
The car is only rated to 70?kW but you won't get that from a 50kW charger, you need a 100kW (for obvious reasons)
So marketing speak at it's finest
I think the Hyundai brochure was clear and honest enough. It said you would get to 80% in 75mins on a 50kW charger or in 54mins on a 100kW charger. Without needing to understand anything about DC charging protocols etc, it should be obvious to any prospective customer the car is capable of charging more quickly on a 100kW charger than on a 50kW charger but not twice as quick. That is all that most people would be interested to know.

Re: Kona Charging at Fast Chargers

Posted: Sat, 31 Aug 2019, 09:24
by photomac
jonescg wrote:
Fri, 30 Aug 2019, 14:50
Well done on your Kona purchase Matt! Swapped the plates over already :)
Haha didn’t take long but I kinda fed the rumour mill.
Scary, very scary as tot he cost. What pushed us was Shell ordering their workers to attend a Trump rally. If they didn’t their pay would be docked! The original LEAF purchase was when the Saudi’s publicly whipped a woman because she was driving. I have had it with the old business models! But humanity will drag it down if alternate humanity doesn’t resist!

Re: Kona Charging at Fast Chargers

Posted: Sat, 31 Aug 2019, 09:28
by photomac
brendon_m wrote:
Fri, 30 Aug 2019, 20:32
I think the 100kW comes from hyundai saying "charges to 80% in X minutes when connected to a 100kW dc charger".
The car is only rated to 70?kW but you won't get that from a 50kW charger, you need a 100kW (for obvious reasons)
So marketing speak at it's finest
Yeah, that is honest! Not that I require the faster rate. With 70kW capable means electronics have headroom for the 50kW. I must admit it is my error by assumption of a too quick read.

24 hours into owning the more I find in the Kona the more I like!

Re: Kona Charging at Fast Chargers

Posted: Sat, 31 Aug 2019, 09:32
by photomac
coulomb wrote:
Fri, 30 Aug 2019, 20:26
photomac wrote:
Fri, 30 Aug 2019, 14:27
Oh ... I thought I had read 100kW ... is that AC at 100kW and DC at 70kW and onboard at 7.2kw?
AC charging is always through the on board charger (OBC). That's limited to 7.2 kW, so AC charging is limited to 7.2 kW. To get a higher AC charging rate, the on board charger would have to be upgraded.

So the 100 kW figure has to be for DC (essentially, direct into the battery). One limitation is the maximum current that the DC charger (external to the vehicle) and its liquid cooled cable etc can handle. 350 kW (as I understand it) is only when delivering 1000 V, i.e. 1000 V × 350 A = 350 kW. But the Kona's battery will (should!!) never be near 1000 V; if it's at 360 V, then the charger limit is 360 V x 350 A = 126 kW. So that's not the limitation. My guess is that the 100 kW figure is a theoretical one, with the battery voltage nearer 400 V, yet perfectly balanced, no cells in voltage or temperature stress, and a little stretching for marketing purposes. To get an actual real-world 77 kW charge rate is pretty good, and under better conditions, maybe someone will record a little more than that.
Brilliant summary! With 70kW DC there is headroom on the electrics at the 50kW. I did think the fast was DC and the level 2 AC but got confused by another statement ( easy done ). The portable charger has a button the back to adjust the current rate, excellent for use in domestic GPOs

Re: Kona Charging at Fast Chargers

Posted: Sun, 01 Sep 2019, 19:22
by reecho
coulomb wrote:
Fri, 30 Aug 2019, 20:26
photomac wrote:
Fri, 30 Aug 2019, 14:27
Oh ... I thought I had read 100kW ... is that AC at 100kW and DC at 70kW and onboard at 7.2kw?
AC charging is always through the on board charger (OBC). That's limited to 7.2 kW, so AC charging is limited to 7.2 kW. To get a higher AC charging rate, the on board charger would have to be upgraded.

So the 100 kW figure has to be for DC (essentially, direct into the battery). One limitation is the maximum current that the DC charger (external to the vehicle) and its liquid cooled cable etc can handle. 350 kW (as I understand it) is only when delivering 1000 V, i.e. 1000 V × 350 A = 350 kW. But the Kona's battery will (should!!) never be near 1000 V; if it's at 360 V, then the charger limit is 360 V x 350 A = 126 kW. So that's not the limitation. My guess is that the 100 kW figure is a theoretical one, with the battery voltage nearer 400 V, yet perfectly balanced, no cells in voltage or temperature stress, and a little stretching for marketing purposes. To get an actual real-world 77 kW charge rate is pretty good, and under better conditions, maybe someone will record a little more than that.
I have seen 7.5Kw AC charging in the Kona so far. Must like higher line voltages...

Re: Kona Charging at Fast Chargers

Posted: Sun, 01 Sep 2019, 21:11
by photomac
Used the SETEC box at Caltex Jurien Bay, 36kW from 33% SoC to 80%. Useful location when driving north. Easy to use. Good facilities. Had experienced severe rain, saturated roads, some air con use averaged 18.7kWh/100km trying to drive north at 100kph with NW winds between 35 and 50kph.

Re: Kona Charging at Fast Chargers

Posted: Sat, 07 Sep 2019, 12:48
by photomac
It was too wet for ducks when we arrived so cables not well laid out. Luckily out of the way and no reason for public to stagger this way. So appreciate this charger. 36-38kW rate.
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Re: Kona Charging at Fast Chargers

Posted: Mon, 09 Sep 2019, 11:39
by Xap
I have managed to get 7.5kW at a Tesla destination charger at a local shopping centre. Was very happy to finally see the max AC speed!

Re: Kona Charging at Fast Chargers

Posted: Mon, 09 Sep 2019, 12:59
by Peter C in Canberra
Xap wrote:
Mon, 09 Sep 2019, 11:39
The photo
"Upside down, Miss Jane."

Re: Kona Charging at Fast Chargers

Posted: Mon, 09 Sep 2019, 15:03
by coulomb
Peter C in Canberra wrote:
Mon, 09 Sep 2019, 12:59
"Upside down, Miss Jane."
Heh, I'm old enough to understand that reference :o

Actually, if you use View Image in Firefox or Open Image in New Tab in Chrome, it comes out right. So either both browsers are ignoring the rotation settings in the image, or there is a bug with PHPBB rendering the page (through some mechanism I can't imagine).

Re: Kona Charging at Fast Chargers

Posted: Mon, 09 Sep 2019, 15:11
by Peter C in Canberra
coulomb wrote:
Mon, 09 Sep 2019, 15:03
Peter C in Canberra wrote:
Mon, 09 Sep 2019, 12:59
"Upside down, Miss Jane."
Heh, I'm old enough to understand that reference :o

Actually, if you use View Image in Firefox or Open Image in New Tab in Chrome, it comes out right. So either both browsers are ignoring the rotation settings in the image, or there is a bug with PHPBB rendering the page (through some mechanism I can't imagine).
In Apple Safari, 'Open image in new window' turns it the right way around too.

Re: Kona Charging at Fast Chargers

Posted: Mon, 09 Sep 2019, 21:24
by Xap
Peter C in Canberra wrote:
Mon, 09 Sep 2019, 12:59
Xap wrote:
Mon, 09 Sep 2019, 11:39
The photo
"Upside down, Miss Jane."
Corrected now. For some reason attaching it from my phone kept putting it upside down. Even when I rotated it 180. Uploaded to my PC and reattached. :D

Re: Kona Charging at Fast Chargers

Posted: Mon, 30 Sep 2019, 14:29
by photomac
Used UWA Tritium charger to lift from 5% (20km GoM) SoC to 45% SoC (206km GoM) in 35mins with 26.2kWh at an average of 45kW rate.
If the new ChargeFox ( 350kW ) can put in 65kW into the Kona it translates to 269km in 35 minutes = 230km per half hour.
My beverage, food, toilet stops require half an hour in less than 230km.
So, with a 90% battery charge initially , regular half hour rest breaks and a fast charge network on major routes, there is no range anxiety.
Range challenge solved!!
Now price entry point ... 5 year's ??

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Re: Kona Charging at Fast Chargers

Posted: Mon, 03 Feb 2020, 16:34
by photomac
DOH!!!
If fast charger will not initiate ... check the setting in the car for maximum SoC limit for DC ... does help...

Re: Kona Charging at Fast Chargers

Posted: Mon, 03 Feb 2020, 20:17
by Peter C in Canberra
photomac wrote:
Fri, 30 Aug 2019, 14:27
Oh ... I thought I had read 100kW ... is that AC at 100kW and DC at 70kW and onboard at 7.2kw?
AC is 7kW (32A at 240V).
DC is 75kW. The Hyundai sales literature is honest but perhaps a bit misleading. The say how long it takes to charge to 80% at a 50kW charger and at a 100KW charger. The latter is not twice as fast as the former. They omit to mention that the fastest the Kona can charge is about 75kW, slowing down over the last 30% or so to 100%.