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Hilux conversion

Posted: Sat, 21 Nov 2020, 09:18
by Castlemaniac
I have the opportunity to obtain for nothing , effectively , a 2005 top end Hilux dual cab. it has a cooked heads. The body and and tray is in perfect condition. What are the issues.?
The ute has a lot of extras that can be stripped off. Driving lights, over the top bumper bar, dual fuel gas' petrol and V6 engine. The back has a tray. it also has a four wheel drive system . I want to put enough battery into it to have an effective range unloaded of 400Km+. As I understand it I will need about 75kwh of battery and serious motor.
The frame and power brakes should have enough to hold that much or more battery.

My plan is to strip down and sell off the V6 engine, radiator, gas system , petrol system , petrol tank and other associated systems. I will be also stripping off the 4WD system and putting in 2WD will help. The ute is fully electric and has two standard batteries to drive the current electrics. the curb weight was 1750 kg. With extras it will be over 2,000kg. I expect to get this down to under 1,000 kg after strip down.

Re: Hilux conversion

Posted: Sat, 21 Nov 2020, 11:04
by jonescg
Sounds like a sensible plan! You might find 75 kWh to be a stretch, but the Ute is arguably the better platform for such a project. Being a dual cab you might have a bit less room than you'd like, but leave the battery till last - then fit what will. The engine and exhaust etc won't reduce the mass by very much, unfortunately. Maybe 250 kg at best.

Re: Hilux conversion

Posted: Sat, 21 Nov 2020, 13:02
by 4Springs
Castlemaniac wrote: Sat, 21 Nov 2020, 09:18 I want to put enough battery into it to have an effective range unloaded of 400Km+. As I understand it I will need about 75kwh of battery and serious motor.
My smaller ute (I kept the 4WD) gets about 25 kWh/100 km. So I'd need 100 kWh to go 400 km. Your ute is larger, so probably worse aerodynamics, but newer, so probably better aerodynamics and drivetrain efficiency. I think that 100 kWh would be a better bet to get the range, especially the '+'. :)

Re: Hilux conversion

Posted: Sat, 21 Nov 2020, 16:11
by francisco.shi
4Springs wrote: Sat, 21 Nov 2020, 13:02
Castlemaniac wrote: Sat, 21 Nov 2020, 09:18 I want to put enough battery into it to have an effective range unloaded of 400Km+. As I understand it I will need about 75kwh of battery and serious motor.
My smaller ute (I kept the 4WD) gets about 25 kWh/100 km. So I'd need 100 kWh to go 400 km. Your ute is larger, so probably worse aerodynamics, but newer, so probably better aerodynamics and drivetrain efficiency. I think that 100 kWh would be a better bet to get the range, especially the '+'. :)
You are using a brushed motor right?
That would make it use up a bit more power and you wouldn't get regen braking.
But I think you are right 75kwh is probably not going to do 400km.

Re: Hilux conversion

Posted: Sat, 21 Nov 2020, 16:40
by 4Springs
francisco.shi wrote: Sat, 21 Nov 2020, 16:11 You are using a brushed motor right?
That would make it use up a bit more power and you wouldn't get regen braking.
Correct, and a good point. This is a very flat area, and I don't think that regen is really worth it for me, but it can make a difference for some folk.

Re: Hilux conversion

Posted: Mon, 23 Nov 2020, 07:07
by Castlemaniac
jonescg, Thank you for weight comments. The ute has a lot of extras such as a very large over the top bull bar that it not a production model. It also has lots of extras such as dual fuel components. This adds about 250kg to the weight. The break horse power and towing capacity is well above the average ute. I estimate about 1,000kg of excess can be taken off. I think tyhe tray could be swapped back to a tub. that will be possibly lighter.

Re: Hilux conversion

Posted: Mon, 23 Nov 2020, 07:10
by Castlemaniac
4 springs, Thanks for your valuable input . I am trying to improve the areo dynamics by replacing the try with a tub. cutting any unnecessary wind and weight down. It currently has non-electric brakes. so that will help as well.

Re: Hilux conversion

Posted: Mon, 23 Nov 2020, 07:13
by Castlemaniac
francisco.shi wrote: Sat, 21 Nov 2020, 16:11
4Springs wrote: Sat, 21 Nov 2020, 13:02
Castlemaniac wrote: Sat, 21 Nov 2020, 09:18 I want to put enough battery into it to have an effective range unloaded of 400Km+. As I understand it I will need about 75kwh of battery and serious motor.
My smaller ute (I kept the 4WD) gets about 25 kWh/100 km. So I'd need 100 kWh to go 400 km. Your ute is larger, so probably worse aerodynamics, but newer, so probably better aerodynamics and drivetrain efficiency. I think that 100 kWh would be a better bet to get the range, especially the '+'. :)
You are using a brushed motor right?
That would make it use up a bit more power and you wouldn't get regen braking.
But I think you are right 75kwh is probably not going to do 400km.
Good comments both of you. The motor I have not decided on. it would have to be compatible with air conditioning and other considerations. What sort of motor would you suggest?

Re: Hilux conversion

Posted: Mon, 23 Nov 2020, 07:25
by Castlemaniac
Between the chassis frames there is enough room for a full Tesla 3 battery system under the existing body and frame. Between the cab and the rear axel assembly allowing for a motor next to the diff. (1200mm wide / 1900 long, I think) I can drop it into place with no engineering. I can add another smaller component battery under the bonnet. There is a lot of room there. The other thought is to use a set of Nissan leaf batteries in 25kw sets and add 25kwh at a time to to reach the desired range. Regenerative braking might help, I live in Castlemaine so a few hills and some city driving. I could leave one set of batteries out and drop them in for a longer range trip ( around Australia. )

Re: Hilux conversion

Posted: Mon, 23 Nov 2020, 07:52
by Castlemaniac
jonescg wrote: Sat, 21 Nov 2020, 11:04 Sounds like a sensible plan! You might find 75 kWh to be a stretch, but the Ute is arguably the better platform for such a project. Being a dual cab you might have a bit less room than you'd like, but leave the battery till last - then fit what will. The engine and exhaust etc won't reduce the mass by very much, unfortunately. Maybe 250 kg at best.
The engine according to the specs alone is 166Kg, So you would be close.
from web sites other than this the "extras" are as follows.
1. Delux bull bar and extra lights. 75kg ( better aerodynamics )
2. winch 35kg.
4. Commercial roof rack 35kg.
5. Tray replaced with tub swap 200kg for 100kg. ( also better aerodynamics)
6. fuel tank is made of thicker steel extra 30kg.
7. gas tank and lines 40kg.
8. radiator etc... say 10kg
9. 4wd to 2wd say 20kg.
10. dual battery to single 5kg.
11. 4wd gear cab system. 5kg. Plus breather and starter motor etc. add 10kg.
Total 500kg removed at least. However I need to put in motor, air conditioner , batteries etc. It has brakes that can take a payload of 1,000kg +

Re: Hilux conversion

Posted: Mon, 23 Nov 2020, 09:17
by francisco.shi
A few things to consider.
You can not put the electric motor directly attached to the diff because it is too heavy so you will still need to keep the tailshaft.
If you swap the transfer case to a case that has the center diff in (like a transfer case out of a prado) you can keep the 4wd capability and use the low range as an extra gear in case you want to remove the gearbox and keep it as a single speed drive.
It is probably cheaper to keep the original manual gearbox than to add a speed reducer to the motor. It already has a reduction gear and all the connections to the diffs.
Because of the liveaxle rear you can not use much of the space under the body to put the batteries so you are probably better off leaving the Al tray and putting the battery between the tray and the ladder frame. Remember the rear axle moves up and down and the tail shaft also moves up and down so you have to make sure they don't hit the batteries.
You can use a Camry air conditioner. You don't want to keep the motor spinning when the car is not moving.

Re: Hilux conversion

Posted: Mon, 23 Nov 2020, 09:19
by francisco.shi
You may want to have a look at my conversion. It may give you some ideas about motor and batteries.
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=5721

Re: Hilux conversion

Posted: Tue, 24 Nov 2020, 08:30
by Castlemaniac
francisco.shi wrote: Mon, 23 Nov 2020, 09:19 You may want to have a look at my conversion. It may give you some ideas about motor and batteries.
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=5721
Francisco,
Thanks for the tips, your project looks good. Lots of Ideas. I need to improve the aerodynamics. So the tray has to go to tub. Also the reason why the over the top bull bar goes. The tail shaft to axle is a good idea. Using pieces from the Camry for aircon is a good idea. Although I might get one from a wrecked hybrid Toyota. The batteries and drive shaft do cause some problems. However there is plenty of clearance as the ute has high clearance. The tail shaft appears to go under the chassis.I could rig a stone guard arrangement to protect both. But I will look at it. Leaving the battery to last is best. Also the way that battery prices have fallen I expect that they will be cheaper in 6-12 months. the ones i have been looking at have already dropped $2,000 in the last few months.
What did you do about brake assist that is compressed by the engine? Run a separate compressor?

peter

Re: Hilux conversion

Posted: Tue, 24 Nov 2020, 14:17
by francisco.shi
The Pajero comes with an electric booster. Not sure how it works but as soon as I turn the ignition I get brakes even while the engine is not running.

Re: Hilux conversion

Posted: Tue, 24 Nov 2020, 15:19
by brendon_m
Castlemaniac wrote: Tue, 24 Nov 2020, 08:30 What did you do about brake assist that is compressed by the engine? Run a separate compressor?
Yes. People normally fit a small 12v vacuum pump with a pressure switch and reservoir. There are pumps made for the task.
If you are feeling ambitious you can change the booster to an electric type rather than a vacuum one.

Re: Hilux conversion

Posted: Wed, 25 Nov 2020, 08:43
by Castlemaniac
Brendon _m , Thanks for the pointers. Everything will be decided by weight. i can talk to the guys that made the blade electrics in town if it needs to be electric. If the vacuum pump is lighter I will use that. Otherwise it will be electrics. The purpose of this is to show it is realistic to have EV commercial utes etc are viable and can be used on a day to day basis. reliability is the other factor. From perspective a move to non-carbon transport solving transport and work transport is important . Rural areas will never have public transport and commercial work will always need some sort of utes and vans.

Re: Hilux conversion

Posted: Wed, 25 Nov 2020, 10:02
by francisco.shi
If weigh is really important you need to spend the time on the battery. All the other bits are not very significant.
The battery is the heaviest part of the whole system. So it is best to spend the time on the battery.
That pretty much rules out LiFePO cells.
So you need NCMs. Not much choice.

Re: Hilux conversion

Posted: Wed, 25 Nov 2020, 15:25
by jonescg
Volume is critical too - if it doesn't fit, it won't matter how much it weighs...
And yes agree with Francisco here - the only way you'll get your range goals is to use the most energy dense battery cell chemistry you can lay your hands on. Perhaps crashed Tesla Model S/X units, of possibly Kona battery modules if you can source a couple of crashed ones. Or do what I'm doing for the Prelude project and build your own from individual cells. That can work well but you will spend some coin...

Re: Hilux conversion

Posted: Fri, 27 Nov 2020, 09:12
by Castlemaniac
At good information. I was looking at the Tesla or possibly the new Chinese ones coming on the market. I might be able to source these at cost. The GWM utes have a range of 400km+ .
I will start with the motor and build up from there. In 6 months new items might come on the market with the more buying Teslas in the USA.