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Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

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jonescg
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by jonescg »

nuggetgalore wrote:
Mon, 06 Apr 2020, 13:38

As the 60 Ah cells are not an ideal fit ,would it be better to use them as a standalone system?
https://www.relectrify.com/
How much does a set of the 93 Ah cells cost? How much work to fit this set into an iMiEV?
I was quoted USD$75 each for the 93 Ah cells.
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by wovenrovings »

Well don't trade it in. Sell it privately, at $8000 it would sell quickly, I reckon.
I would be keen on trying the 93 AH one day, if I had some idea if the car would cope.

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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by nuggetgalore »

wovenrovings wrote:
Mon, 06 Apr 2020, 17:52
Well don't trade it in. Sell it privately, at $8000 it would sell quickly, I reckon.
I would be keen on trying the 93 AH one day, if I had some idea if the car would cope.
Same here, really keen to see how an iMiEV with bigger cells behaves.

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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by mikedufty »

We got $13,000 for our 80km range i-Miev about a year ago. A dealer has just posted one on carsales in WA for $11,600. Is that what they sell $4000 trade in's for?

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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by nuggetgalore »

jonescg wrote:
Mon, 06 Apr 2020, 13:39
Roger paid $7600 for the 60 Ah cells about 5 months ago. An additional ~$3000 has been spent on enclosures and copper buslinks to suit.
Pauline was quoted about $4000 for a trade-in some time back too.

As a high voltage home storage battery they could be good.
How far has the sale of this car progressed.
I am contemplating to buy it or loan the money to be able to continue the project.

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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by brendon_m »

mikedufty wrote:
Thu, 09 Apr 2020, 00:14
We got $13,000 for our 80km range i-Miev about a year ago. A dealer has just posted one on carsales in WA for $11,600. Is that what they sell $4000 trade in's for?
If it makes you feel better that same imiev on carsales sold at auction for $8000 a few weeks ago...

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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by jonescg »

nuggetgalore wrote:
Thu, 09 Apr 2020, 04:46
jonescg wrote:
Mon, 06 Apr 2020, 13:39
Roger paid $7600 for the 60 Ah cells about 5 months ago. An additional ~$3000 has been spent on enclosures and copper buslinks to suit.
Pauline was quoted about $4000 for a trade-in some time back too.

As a high voltage home storage battery they could be good.
How far has the sale of this car progressed.
I am contemplating to buy it or loan the money to be able to continue the project.
Nothing has happened yet, but I have a long weekend and nowhere to go coming up. Unfortunately I still don't have the fixings I need to finish it, and can't proceed until they arrive. If you really want to see it happen, it might be best if we return the old pack and sell it as is, and you buy the cells and all the modules and enclosures to go with it and install them in your own iMIEV?

I'm just not confident selling this car with a modified battery pack because a) it might still play up and b) it won't fetch as much as if it were sold as is. The best use of these particular cells is probably in a home storage application, not a car, given what I have seen with the terminal threads etc. If we had a stack of 93 Ah cells I would totally continue on down this path, but these seem like a worst of both worlds situation right now.
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by mark_hetho »

I agree that it is best to sell the car unmodified, unless it is sold directly to an owner who is taking it on as a project. Then I guess hope to find a good buyer for the cells as home energy storage. They'd be a lot easier to put together than thousands of 18650s.

If there was another test project car available I'd be willing to donate to fund the costs of 3 or 4 93Ah cells to see how the project goes (shame about the AUD/USD at the moment). I suspect if it were opened up to crowdfunding from international imiev owners it might get a bit of interest?

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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by brendon_m »

Max charge of 1C means you can probably use up to a 22kW charge rate. That should be enough.
Max discharge at 3C gives 65kW power available.
What's an imiev motor pull down at the drags? My Google foo says 47kW, so should be good.
Is there a price on those cells?

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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by nuggetgalore »

brendon_m wrote:
Fri, 10 Apr 2020, 17:30

Is there a price on those cells?
Isn't the cell voltage too low? 3.7 v 4.1?

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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by brendon_m »

nuggetgalore wrote:
Fri, 10 Apr 2020, 18:03
brendon_m wrote:
Fri, 10 Apr 2020, 17:30

Is there a price on those cells?
Isn't the cell voltage too low? 3.7 v 4.1?
3.7V is nominal, same as the imiev. 4.1V is fully charged.
They're ncm so should be same same. (or close enough)
Last edited by brendon_m on Sat, 11 Apr 2020, 11:10, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by nuggetgalore »

brendon_m wrote:
Fri, 10 Apr 2020, 18:06
nuggetgalore wrote:
Fri, 10 Apr 2020, 18:03
brendon_m wrote:
Fri, 10 Apr 2020, 17:30

Is there a price on those cells?
Isn't the cell voltage too low? 3.7 v 4.1?
3.7v is nominal, same as the imiev. 4.1v is fully charged.
They're ncm so should be same same. (or close enough)
Ah sorry,my fault. I just saw the headline in the flyer: "LiFePO4" but overlooked the "/Li-ion Battery" Cells

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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by brendon_m »

Yeah, that caught me at first too, I almost posted back to say as much but decided to look at the specs and try to find a price. That's when I realised and noticed the / in the headline

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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by mark_hetho »

Max voltage 4.2, and the imiev charges to just under 4.1.
Looking closer they are only quoted for 1000 cycles at 0.2C rate... So you might have to be quite gentle with them.

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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by brendon_m »

mark_hetho wrote:
Sat, 11 Apr 2020, 07:45
Max voltage 4.2, and the imiev charges to just under 4.1
The lev50's out of the imiev are 4.2V fully charged as well but mitsubishi stop at 4.1V for longer life. Which makes sense because there is basically no extra capacity in the last 0.1V anyway.
Last edited by brendon_m on Sat, 11 Apr 2020, 11:09, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by nuggetgalore »

mark_hetho wrote:
Sat, 11 Apr 2020, 07:45
Max voltage 4.2, and the imiev charges to just under 4.1.
Looking closer they are only quoted for 1000 cycles at 0.2C rate... So you might have to be quite gentle with them.
1000 cycles would be more than plenty for my little pony. By the time it is 20 years old it be time for the long yard....first I have to fix the charger!

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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by mark_hetho »

I was thinking it's only 3 years lifetime at one cycle per day, or four years for one cycle per weekday.

Although I guess our imievs capacity is more like 35ah now, so what is a full cycle on the old cells would be a half a cycle on 70ah cells.

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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by brendon_m »

That is at 0.2C of a 22kWh pack so 4.5kW which isn't exactly thrashing the car. The cell cycle life maybe less than a 1000 at higher C rates. Time would tell I guess

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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by jonescg »

Somewhat back on thread here...

I have re-assembled the original battery in the iMiEV so it can be readied for sale as is. I think a private sale starting price of $8000 is fair?
I also have about $3000 worth of kit and $7600 worth of cells (call it $10k all up) should someone want to attempt an upgrade using these 60 Ah cells.

It's a shame, but I think this is the least worst outcome for Pauline.
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by brendon_m »

jonescg wrote:
Sat, 11 Apr 2020, 13:48
I think a private sale starting price of $8000 is fair?
Sounds like a good deal for someone if it meets their range needs

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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by nuggetgalore »

jonescg wrote:
Sat, 11 Apr 2020, 13:48
Somewhat back on thread here...

I have re-assembled the original battery in the iMiEV so it can be readied for sale as is. I think a private sale starting price of $8000 is fair?
I also have about $3000 worth of kit and $7600 worth of cells (call it $10k all up) should someone want to attempt an upgrade using these 60 Ah cells.

It's a shame, but I think this is the least worst outcome for Pauline.
Yes sorry to have ambushed this thread with my charger post.
Very grateful for the replies though.

Pity it is not in Vic. I could be tempted for the challenge to swap cells if they were a straight in out, ie no tampering with the BMS mount.Just have to find cells with the correct stud or hole spacing and a size that is compatible with the existing container.

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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by richi »

brendon_m wrote:
Sat, 11 Apr 2020, 07:54
mark_hetho wrote:
Sat, 11 Apr 2020, 07:45
Max voltage 4.2, and the imiev charges to just under 4.1
The lev50's out of the imiev are 4.2V fully charged as well but mitsubishi stop at 4.1V for longer life. Which makes sense because there is basically no extra capacity in the last 0.1V anyway.
In typical NMC cells, the top 0.1 V is very roughly 10% of the SoC, But using it is responsible for disproportionate amounts of deg.

It's complicated by the fact that it's the Yuasa specs that say "100% = 4.1 OCV," but that's nothing inherent in the cell design. If you finished the charge with a 4.2 V constant-Voltage phase, you could think of them as 55 Ah cells, but they wouldn't last nearly as long.
Last edited by richi on Sat, 11 Apr 2020, 18:31, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by jonescg »

nuggetgalore wrote:
Sat, 11 Apr 2020, 14:26

Yes sorry to have ambushed this thread with my charger post.
Very grateful for the replies though.

Pity it is not in Vic. I could be tempted for the challenge to swap cells if they were a straight in out, i.e. no tampering with the BMS mount.Just have to find cells with the correct stud or hole spacing and a size that is compatible with the existing container.
They are pretty close though - I mean, I could finish all 10 modules and leave the last two 4 cell modules (because they are head-scratchers) and ship them to you. The new modules now have a BMS mount which the iMiEV BMS module literally screws straight into. If you find it all too overwhelming you can simply re-purpose them as a high voltage home storage battery. Or sell them to someone else.
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by nuggetgalore »

They are pretty close though - I mean, I could finish all 10 modules and leave the last two 4 cell modules (because they are head-scratchers) and ship them to you. The new modules now have a BMS mount which the iMiEV BMS module literally screws straight into. If you find it all too overwhelming you can simply re-purpose them as a high voltage home storage battery. Or sell them to someone else.
Thanks for the offer, but I am not confident enough especially with the head scratchers.
Also while I am keen for somebody with more experience to prove the concept,I am not qualified to be the pioneer.

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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by jonescg »

Guys, mind starting another thread on iMiEV charger maintenance and repair? Interesting and all, but not really relevant to getting Pauline's iMiEV back on the road ;)
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