Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

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francisco.shi
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by francisco.shi »

If you have an outlander to play with I am happy to have a chat to it and convince it to play nice.
I am sure a bigger battery and one pedal driving will be great on an outlander.
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by fifurnio »

francisco.shi wrote: Thu, 21 Oct 2021, 08:31 It seems when they designed the old BMS they did what they needed to do for the job (and nothing more) there does not seem to be any allowance for changing the capacity of the cells or the current limit in or out of the pack. It kind of makes sense, why spend time making something more complicated than it needs to be if they were not intending to put bigger cells in the near future.
I found a way to set a different capacity in the canbus, it seemed to me that I was clear in my previous message.
The bms master of my Peugeot is Mitsubishi and has the same canbus protocol as iMiev, by sending the modified data the indication of the remaining range changes instantly
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by fifurnio »

these are two sreenshot from a video I maked when I sent a message in the canbus
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richi
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by richi »

Franco, what the GOM displays and what you actually achieve are two different things. Lying to the Coulomb-counting logic won't give you any more actual range (and risks over-discharging the weakest cells).
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by fifurnio »

richi wrote: Wed, 03 Nov 2021, 17:16 Franco, what the GOM displays and what you actually achieve are two different things. Lying to the Coulomb-counting logic won't give you any more actual range (and risks over-discharging the weakest cells).
exactly
I only wrote that "playing" with that data manipulates the nominal capacity of the battery.
In my upgrade project the SOC is recalculated on the real voltage of the pack, this precisely to obtain the battery discharge at the correct value.
To obtain this result I am developing a complex algorithm that takes into account various parameters; discharge curve, recovery time, pack current, internal resistance, temperature.
The formula is still evolving, for example I am considering the possibility of keeping the coulombic calculation for the first part of the discharge, perhaps up to 70%, where this method certainly gives a more stable data.

No I am under the illusion of to be a genius, mind you, if on all the electrical vehicles I have the SOC is calculated in the same way and not with my algorithm there must be a reason, but I want to try, I want to get to a system that connects the SOC at the true value of the pack voltage to obtain a correct discharge, i.e. the exploitation of the battery at 100%, avoiding over-discharging or under-discharging
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by francisco.shi »

What I meant to say is that the BMS does not seem to have an option to change the setting of the battery capacity. It seems to be hard coded in the firmware.
If you want to modify the SOC by doing your own calculation you have to have a CAN bridge. You need to have a CAN channel that the BMS connects to and another channel that the car connects to. You then get the message from the BMS modify it and then send it to the car.
You can not just inject messages with the updated data without removing the original messages.
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by fifurnio »

francisco.shi wrote: Thu, 04 Nov 2021, 05:36 What I meant to say is that the BMS does not seem to have an option to change the setting of the battery capacity. It seems to be hard coded in the firmware.
If you want to modify the SOC by doing your own calculation you have to have a CAN bridge. You need to have a CAN channel that the BMS connects to and another channel that the car connects to. You then get the message from the BMS modify it and then send it to the car.
You can not just inject messages with the updated data without removing the original messages.
I don't think I've ever said I want to do the "capacity" byte change operation without using adequate hardware

I am testing two different hardwares, one is this https://www.mrs-electronic.com/en/produ ... ro-gateway# and one is self-built and uses a PIC (in attachment)
This project is not only for my car, I rebuilt a BMW C-Evolution battery from 60 to 120 Ah and if also there the vehicle continue to run when SOC indication is zero I whant to obtain the correct SOC and range indication, to do this I have to recalculate SOC using voltage and current data in can line
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Last edited by fifurnio on Sat, 13 Nov 2021, 03:30, edited 1 time in total.
Timmytool
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by Timmytool »

Greame has released his intent to do upgrades to the miev battery:
https://www.ozelectricvehicles.com/upgrades
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by phil.shield »

Timmytool wrote: Thu, 11 Nov 2021, 10:46 Greame has released his intent to do upgrades to the miev battery:
https://www.ozelectricvehicles.com/upgrades
Graeme and his team have completed the battery upgrade on my iMiev just recently, I am very happy with the result.

It is a 2010 iMiev, one of the earliest. This was on the first shipment of production electric cars ever to come to Australia. The battery had a hard life. I drove it to Toowong and fully recharged it there to give it enough range to get out to @suziauto in Springwood where Graeme has his workshop (around 30 km). Apparently they had some difficulties getting the original battery pack out because the batteries had swollen. And there were some difficult access and fastener issues. Must have been from early in the production when Mitsubishi were still sorting out their processes.

Now it is back together with the new battery pack and over 200 km of range. To me this makes it more useful and valuable than it was when it was new. So far, I’ve just taken it for trips around the city, it’s got more than enough range and it’s great to drive. I’m looking forward to taking it out for longer trips out of town in coming weeks.

I’m keen to get the one pedal regen control option. Graeme has it in a test vehicle and I’ve had a test drive with @francisco.shi - thanks Francisco for taking the time to let me test it out. I really enjoyed it. The braking is strong enough to allow you to come to a come to a complete stop without touching the brake pedal. It will even hold on a hill without needing to use the brake pedal. I’m told it’s not quite ready, they are still fine tuning it. So I’m hoping to get it installed early next year and get the cruise control option at the same time.

Thanks to @suziauto, I’ve very happy with the battery upgrade.
francisco.shi
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by francisco.shi »

I have a question for experienced Imiev drivers.
The battery capacity is reported from the BMS.
I then replaced the value (49Ah) with the current battery value (94Ah) and let the car work out the range.
This morning the car was fully charged and the GOM was reporting 299 km of range.
GOM reading
GOM reading
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This means that without the adjustment it would read 155 with an original new battery.
The upgraded battery is about 30kwh and I have been able to do 10kwh/100km.
So it is not ridiculous that it could potentially do 300km on one charge.
But is it realistic?
Should I try to fix this issue or should I just leave it an let Imiev driving experience convert the number to a realistic value?
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by brendon_m »

Mine has a capacity of 26Ah and I regularly see 100km on the GoM. Drops like a rock for the first few kilometres and the real range is more like 80km (and more like 50 with some highway work). Personally Id say it's about normal for an Imiev and wouldn't bother trying to correct it
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by francisco.shi »

I decided to see how far I could go if I drove lightly.
When accelerating I tried to keep within the green zone and tried to coast to a stop as much as possible. I drove with the aircon continuously on half the time and the other half of the time was about 50% on/off.
Here are the results.
Distance traveled.
Distance traveled.
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Remaining range
Remaining range
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SOC at begining of charging
SOC at begining of charging
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Charger stats at end of charging.
Charger stats at end of charging.
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I would say that using the NEDC rating we could say the Imiev is has 290km of range.
🤣🤣🤣
I only charged to 80% because some people turned up to use the charger.
Charge rate was 15kw (45A) at 80% charge.
I can drive normally now and keep the pedal to the metal. 🤣🤣
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by stoatwblr »

Guys, is this posting over at the myimiev forum of any use?

http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4121
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by coulomb »

francisco.shi wrote: Sun, 21 Nov 2021, 20:50 Charge rate was 15kw (45A) at 80% charge.
The average charge rate from the final figures of 21.8 kWh and 0.7 h was about 31 kW, so IF it was a linear falling ramp (unlikely), the maximum charging rate would have been about 47 kW at the start.
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by francisco.shi »

It charges tat 100A and it starts to drop off at about 75% so it is 30kw max.
Some times it will go to 125A for a few min and then drop to 100A.
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by fifurnio »

I went to the link http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4121 , Coulomb: looks like you tried to reprogram the master bms, but I didn't understand if you succeeded or if you rewrite the capacity data with a CAN bridge
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by coulomb »

fifurnio wrote: Mon, 22 Nov 2021, 17:50 I didn't understand if you succeeded or if ...
Sadly, all I succeeded in doing is to disassemble the CMU code. I gleaned a few clues about auto-numbering but that's about it.

I could not get anything done with the BMS at all.
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by fifurnio »

has someone verified the data on the battery capacity and the insertion point of the can bridge in the network?
I my car (peugeot) I have two electronics (Mitsubishi, with own can network) one is the master bms, the other is the vehicle calculator, both electronics exchange data from one to each other, master bms receive data from slave bms in battery modules, calculate soc and soh, the other electronic control some services as power relè and calculate range autonomy.
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by Daf »

Raphael303 wrote: Sat, 16 Oct 2021, 21:05
nuggetgalore wrote: Sat, 16 Oct 2021, 19:29
Raphael303 wrote: Sat, 16 Oct 2021, 14:48

Wow, this is amazing! Respect! That is a major accomplishment!

Might there be a way you can change the capacity in the EV-ECU and or BMS though? One might have to bribe a mitsubishi-mechanic though... See my post above.

Which cells did you use?
Did you document your build process with foto or video? Is it here in the forum?
Hi Raphael,
I wonder if you are in Europe, cannot see on your profile where you're from.
I vaguely remember having read that some of the French clones had 12kWh packs early on as well as the Japanese iMiEVs.
The MUTIII tool can be used to set / reset parameters including the Ah capacity and it can also balance the cells and check the capacity of each cell.
There are some very handy apps to check the battery: CaniOn is free, a better one is EvBatMon and then there are scanners and MUTIII clones. But it appears that only the genuine Mitsubishi tool can do all the
resetting except for geniuses like francesco who can hack the software.
Yes in Switzerland, the 2010/2011 models here all have 100k range at best. It very very rarely shows more than 100k range on full battery. The imievs after that have more range.

I check the apps out again, a couple of years ago I actually tried those but one of those was horrible.
hi ! just for help, in france after 08/2012, the citroen c0 and peugeot ion, had a 80 cells battery with only 14.5kwh with lev50n.
before it was the 88 cells 16kwh with lev50.
never heard somthing about 12kwh here.
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by fifurnio »

can bridge in testing
It seems to work, I found a way to display the battery voltage value on the instrument panel, even if I had to intervene in two different can lines.
I considered it important to view the battery voltage: in my system I added a 10 kWh extender to the existing battery, but the connection of this device is subject to some safety conditions, so in case it disconnects I want to see the real voltage, if the system calculates the range with a fixed value capacity there is the possibility that the original battery goes into overdischarge, so knowing the minimum value below which not to go down I can stop before causing possible damage
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by francisco.shi »

What did you use to display the battery voltage?
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by brendon_m »

@fifurnios post about a range extender has prompted me to stop being lazy and make a post about my Imiev.

Tldr I made a range extender out of Leaf cells for my Imiev


My Imiev had about 80km of range (GoM reports between 80 and 100). SoH is 26/50Ah or 52%
If I kept to less than 70km/h I'd get the full reported range but it would start going into a power limit about 40km into trips if I started going up hills or on the highway which unfortunately is part of my trip to work everyday (40km each way with some highway work and a hill at the end on the way there). Worse when it's cold but the majority of time I'd get to work ok, I just had to leave home with 100% or I wasn't getting to work with out slowing down to a crawl on the hill.
If I worked the car hard and looking at the cell voltages I'd see a bunch of individual cells go low, like <3V low :shock: while the rest would be over the 3.5V mark.

Not the worst day but here is an example of after I got to work
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Some pretty sad cells in there.


I thought about repacking new cells in there and I may still do that in the future but because this is my daily driver it's hard to take it off the road for long periods of time.

Through other projects I ended up with a degraded 24kWh Leaf pack surplus to requirements (SoH 39/65Ah or 60%)
Not exactly fantastic and even worse when you account for Leaf cells being heavy per kWh when they are in good condition.
If you saw what I did with my Outlander phev you'll have an idea of what I did except this install was a lot more, let's say industrial....
In an ideal world I would have removed the back seats but I have kids so I had to keep the seats in the rear. I thought about pulling the front seat out and building a box there because with the extra weight of the leaf cells it's unwise to load the car up with 4 people anyway but very rarely I may have an adult passenger and I don't want a cop asking awkward questions about why I don't have a seat.

On a side note, I pulled the front seat out a few of my old cars (hatchbacks) for more storage room and whenever I took a passenger they loved the leg room in the back left seat. Better than a Maybach :D

End result is the boot was my target.
I turned the leaf cells into 2 long packs and stacked them on-top of each other
Unfortunately I didn't take a lot of photos but here is a shot with the bottom row of cells with the endplate for another row welded on top
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Once the pack was made into a stack with 88 cells in series I welded up some mounts to bolt the pack into the car.
But before installing it I had to splice into the HV lines going to the inverter
I cut the lines 100mm from the Inverter and crimped some eyelets on so I could bolt a cable to splice off to the range extender
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Not as invasive as I'd like but insulated and waterproof.

Ran the cables up into the boot
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And then sealed up the boot floor hoping everything thing was alright as once I bolt 150kg of Leaf cells into the boot I won't be opening the hatch again any time soon.

In go the cells
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brendon_m
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by brendon_m »

I'm using the Leaf BMS to monitor the 'new' cells and to make the harness neat I changed the pinout of the plugs on the top stack so I can just plug the 2 stacks of cells straight into the BMS.
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And I had to cut a trace on the Leaf BMS board to stop HV leakage codes being logged in the Imiev because the Leaf BMS is also trying to do leakage checks and they don't play nice together.
I even cut the right trace the first time (this time :roll: )
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I mounted some contactors on the leaf stack and wired them in so they come on after the original Imiev pack is precharged and connected.
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I wired in an OBD socket and added a few pouch cells to the Leaf BMS in order to be able to talk to it with leafspy.
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The white heroin brick on top there is an 8s pack of pouch cells


Some details on that can be read in my Outlander range extender post.
This install won't be as integrated as the Outlander one and I plan on just checking in on the cells periodically/hoping for the best.

Made up a few more battery cables to link all the bits together, including a service plug (thanks @jonescg )
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I recently had a training course that was 30km from home, all on highways and I couldn't charge during the day, so I needed to go 60km on the highway. This made the project have a 'must be completed by' date as otherwise I would be getting there by public transport (which I'm happy to use but not at the expense of over 2 hours each way).
With a final rush on the weekend I managed to get it all installed and the maiden voyage was Monday morning on the way to my course.
One day I might do a test drive that I'm not relying on to get me somewhere...

The car got me to my course all week without any hassles. The power meter on the instrument cluster basically reads half now (as half the current is being supplied by the range extender) and the GoM is vague. The Imiev just assumes I'm driving super efficiently all the time due to the low battery current but it seems to have a upper (lower?) threshold of how efficient it thinks someone can be. The GoM flat out refuses to go above 127km when fully charged which sounds interestingly like a 128 bit data limit. Thinking about what @francisco.shi has been able to get reported on the cluster, possibly this is just a 2010 Imiev thing and it changes in the 2012 on ones or the dash can interpret higher values but the bmu won't send a higher value.
As I drive the GoM goes down slower than the kilometres I clock up by around 25% ie if I go 40km the home goes down by only 30km. I've done over 120km in one trip (with a fair chunk of highway work) and still had over 40% SoC.
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That shot was 125km in to a trip with 40km remaining in the GoM so I think I have a very comfortable 160km range, I could probably even push 200km if I kept the speeds down

The car now has a less stress inducing range (I can forget to charge it and still get to work) and will happily sit on 110km for long periods at the sacrifice of most of the boot space.

I'm a little worried about heat in the cabin cooking the cells so I've tinted the car to as dark as I can go and when I park in the sun I just leave the windows cracked open, this is normally at work which is round the back of the workshop in a secure area.

And for those who want numbers, the original pack was 16kWh (50Ah × 3.65V × 88 cells) and had degraded to 8.3kWh (26Ah).
I added 21kWh of Nissan leaf cells (65Ah) but they were already degraded to 12.5kWh (39Ah) so my total capacity is now just shy of 21kWh.

Weight penalty of 160kg ish
And the Leaf pack and sundries cost me about $3500
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by nuggetgalore »

Wow. Nice post.
The car got me to my course all week without any hassles. The power meter on the instrument cluster basically reads half now (as half the current is being supplied by the range extender) and the GoM is vague. The Imiev just assumes I'm driving super efficiently all the time due to the low battery current but it seems to have a upper (lower?) threshold of how efficient it thinks someone can be. The GoM flat out refuses to go above 127km when fully charged which sounds interestingly like a 128 bit data limit.
I don't think 128 is a data limit. If I drive with a full tank (GOM 110-120 depending on recent drive) to Melbourne,about 40 km downhill,(GOM >90 !!)and then top it up at my friends place, GOM reads as much as 145. Going home it recalculates it to the more realistic 80 GOM remaining.
But of course the added pack is not the same chemistry and discharges and recharges at a different rate.
By the way, I promised to post some pictures, but I was a bit concerned as it is not certified.
As brendon_m has posted his effort, maybe it is ok if I follow....
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by jonescg »

We've been waiting for your build to be posted for over a year now Andreas!
AEVA National President, retiring WA branch chair.
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