I-MIEV Battery Replacement warning

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I-MIEV Battery Replacement warning

Post by zzcoopej » Fri, 27 Nov 2015, 20:23

offgridQLD wrote: 50ah nominal (LEV50 cells)from the factory but more than 48ah after a capacity test.


As far as I have read, the PHEV uses LEV50N which just "has higher durability in a hot environment" than the LEV50 -

lev50-vs-lev50n

In this they state "14.5 kWh (80 cells)" whereas the PHEV has 12kWh in its 80 cells so there must be some difference.
Last edited by zzcoopej on Fri, 27 Nov 2015, 09:25, edited 1 time in total.
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I-MIEV Battery Replacement warning

Post by offgridQLD » Fri, 27 Nov 2015, 20:47

Could be the same cells but its reporting on the alawable max (new) usable capacity.

As in Imiev allows 48ah from new and Outlander limits it to 40ah (or 38) Most hybrids are more conservative with the capacity they allow you to use from the cell.

Though when testing you app on your Imiev perhaps the app is giving the battery % (lets say its worn down to 88% as a % of 40ah rather than a % of 50ah...something like that. Like its assuming its a (Outlander battery allowable capacity) when in fact its higher on the Imiev.

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I-MIEV Battery Replacement warning

Post by zzcoopej » Fri, 27 Nov 2015, 21:13

offgridQLD wrote: Though when testing you app on your Imiev perhaps the app is giving the battery %


Its not a %, I am getting an Ah value directly. Besides, the value from my App for my iMiEV matches the Mitsubishi battery report I received today so its correct (in so far as Mitsubishi is "correct"!). I'm sure we'll figure out sooner or later why this value doesn't relate to the 50Ah cell capacity.

From the PHEV data battery is 300V 12kWh making 80 cells of 3.75v each

3.75v x 80 cells x 50Ah = 15kWh whereas they state 12kWh capacity

3.75v x 80 cells = 12kWh therefore Ah = 40   (This matches what I heard as max factory capacity)

For iMiEV
3.75v x 88 cells x 50Ah = 16.5kWh but we don't have that available else we could go much further.

3.75v x 88 cells x 36.8Ah (my current capacity) = 12,144 Wh

From Canion we use approx 121wh/km and bingo! this is the 100km range we see in practice.

For you offGridQLD, 3.75v x 88 cells x 38.6AH = 12,738Wh, which at 104wh/km is 122km which seems to match your figures right?



Last edited by zzcoopej on Fri, 27 Nov 2015, 10:35, edited 1 time in total.
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I-MIEV Battery Replacement warning

Post by offgridQLD » Fri, 27 Nov 2015, 21:33

I found a post on the US Imiev forum where a few owners had there cars capacity checked with the MUT3 at the service centre

the results

"Remember the numbers from the Mitsu5 five i-MiEV's 12 month report

1. 5870 km - distance traveled / 43,2 Ah - actual battery capacity
2. 4667 km - distance traveled / 43,4 Ah - actual battery capacity
3. 5564 km - distance traveled / 41,8 Ah - actual battery capacity
4. 5891 km - distance traveled / 41,8 Ah - actual battery capacity
5. 11895 km - distance traveled / 42,7 Ah - actual battery capacity

And tonymil 8 month report - 8800 miles (14.000 km)
State of charge (control value) - 99%
Battery current capacity - 46,1 Ah

Now my turn, 36 month report - 38750 miles (62.000 km)

State of charge (control value) - 96,5%
Battery current capacity - 36,4 Ah

I would like to see more of us presenting this values. I don´t understand the state of charge value, why the car don't charge 100%? Other thing, it can take 15,8 kWh from empty to full. I don't see how this is compatible with 36,4 Ah."

Then there are is another guy with 80,000km on a 2011 reporting 35ah after his test.

If I have 38.6 and often get between 120 - 140km RR that's 19% capacity loss. Unless my car had most of this 19% capacity loss from new then I cant' make sense of it.

Kurt

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I-MIEV Battery Replacement warning

Post by offgridQLD » Fri, 27 Nov 2015, 22:05

Skylogger, If your following. Can you confirm the 48ah reported my the service center after your Imiev battery was replaced with a new one.

It will be interesting to see how that re calibrates over time.

Kurt

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Post by reecho » Fri, 27 Nov 2015, 23:47

Yes he obtained 48aH after battery calibration function was performed....a couple of times over...

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Post by offgridQLD » Sat, 28 Nov 2015, 02:05

Ok will be interesting to see him run the android app soon and compare.

If he still gets 48ah then he should be getting more than 120km as that's what I get with only 38.6ah
Unless he has a extreme lead foot

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Post by reecho » Sat, 28 Nov 2015, 16:46

He is getting more than that. The path he travels daily is quite hilly though. I wouldn't mind seeing a long steady flat run for a baseline.

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Post by offgridQLD » Sat, 28 Nov 2015, 18:39

It's hilly in the hinterland where I am 500m elevation. Also hilly around Brisbane where I am weekdays.

Just run the app when its avalable and see what it comes up with that's what we want to compare it to. As you might be able to tell the bms 48ah when you first reset it as a base line but then one month of driving later it could have tweeked that down through self calibration.Perhaps not to but worth checking so we understand the cars more.

I told my bms on my house that the lithium bank was 400ah. Though one year ago but it could be less now but it still thinks it's 400ah untill I do some kind of full capacity test and replace it with a new number.



Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Sat, 28 Nov 2015, 07:43, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 01 Dec 2015, 14:36

Trying to understand the AH numbers reported by the car. Yesterday I went for a typical mixed drive hills, freeway and some trafic down two just under two bars and recharged the car. About all up about 60km mixed drive with the air conditioner on all the time.

Recharged and get 138km on the RR gauge. This is a common number that hasn't changed at all from new . Though my AH number reported of 38.6ah is 20% less than what I are assuming a new car should report.

Image

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Tue, 01 Dec 2015, 03:37, edited 1 time in total.

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I-MIEV Battery Replacement warning

Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 01 Dec 2015, 15:39

"For iMiEV
3.75v x 88 cells x 50Ah = 16.5kWh but we don't have that available else we could go much further.

3.75v x 88 cells x 36.8Ah (my current capacity) = 12,144 Wh

From Canion we use approx 121wh/km and bingo! this is the 100km range we see in practice.

For you offGridQLD, 3.75v x 88 cells x 38.6AH = 12,738Wh, which at 104wh/km is 122km which seems to match your figures right? "

Just to go over this some more with some historical data from my car. Using this same formula. Km traveled x whrs consumed + % SOC remaining to give us total usable whrs to 0% SOC.

At 2400km    13,763whrs (Earliest Cannon record I have 8 weeks old car)
At 2750km    13,544whrs
At 6000km    14,300whrs
At 10,00km   13.972whrs
At 11,00km   14.088whrs

I will get another data point today from canion and compare today at 25,000km and 3 years later.

Kurt

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I-MIEV Battery Replacement warning

Post by zzcoopej » Tue, 01 Dec 2015, 15:49

offgridQLD wrote: "For you offGridQLD, 3.75v x 88 cells x 38.6AH = 12,738Wh,

At 2400km    13,763whrs (Earliest Cannon record I have 8 weeks old car)
At 2750km    13,544whrs
At 6000km    14,300whrs
At 10,00km   13.972whrs
At 11,00km   14.088whrs

Kurt


I'm beginning to think we need to use 4v for the iMiEV cell. My guess of 3.75v was derived from the PHEV brochure (based on Pack volts & kWh).

If 4V is used I get close to your numbers above. 4v is closer to the average voltage noted in CanIon of around 4.1v to 3.9v.
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Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 01 Dec 2015, 16:10

Yes most likely 4 volts world be a more inline with the voltage in use.

Though the total whr numbers were just posted to compare results as the car aged than compare them to the 3.7v calculation.

The Canion numbers are using live voltage so the cells voltage is always the true voltage.

I have Canion logs for the same 100km trip from 2400km old car - 24,500km in 250km mileage increment steps (once a week) for the past 3 years. So it's interesting to see how the total usable whr's reported has changed.

Kurt

Last edited by offgridQLD on Tue, 01 Dec 2015, 05:11, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by djsharpe » Wed, 13 Jan 2016, 05:09

if you have selectronics or sunnyboy inverters you can ac couple your ex miev bat using a grid inverter. this saves you the trouble of braking up the bat. ill give more info if you are interested. d

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Post by doug » Sat, 16 Apr 2016, 23:53

Hi,
any new info on this topic? I seem to be having similar battery issues. My wife drives from Tregeagle to Ballina work days, ~75Km round trip. It is now almost on the turtle. Unfortunately our car is black, so bakes in the sun whilst B is at work.
It is going to Southport (another drama: well beyond reasonable range) for 45K kms service. I have asked for a warranty claim on the battery (as not fit for purpose) & due to BMS system being replaced (under warranty) earlier this year which might have caused battery issues....
Currently the rnge meter only reads ~75Kms avail on full charge.
Wish me luck!

regards, Doug

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Post by skylogger » Sun, 17 Apr 2016, 14:03

Hi Doug:
It's a bit hit and miss on the battery warranty, It sounds like joseph put in a warrenty claim, and Mitsubishi has sent back a letter which sounds like they may be going to replace his battery under warranty. Another guy that recently bought one of the Mitsu trial cars, Mitsu replaced the battery just before him receiving it. So its about 50/50 if you can get the battery replaced under warranty, especially when Mitsubish was purposfully vague in the wording of this in their warranty. Another thing that I am finding is that the Dealerships are suppose to test and run a recalibration of the battery capacity after around 5 years. Since your car is due for 45k service, they will probably charge you around $650 (a lot more than your previous services since they have to do extra stuff) Make sure they run the battery capacity recalibration, and make sure they give you a report that tells what the battery capacity of each cell is. This is where my dealership screwed me around, as I paid for the big service and they didn't even do this proceedure that is part of that service. After 5 years or so, the BMU gets out of sync with what the battery capacity really is, and they have to run this proceedure so the BMU really knows what the true battery capacity is. So far, I've only found Mitsu dealerships can do this because they need the software on a M.U.T. interface that communicates with the car to run this proceedure. After getting this run, the first week you will see the range jump up, and then it will drop down to what the true range/capacity is. Joseph had this done recently and saw a range improvement, but it didn't last, which is why they are now looking at a battery replacement. Since you had the BMU replaced, They should have run this recalibration of capacity when that was done. Maybe they did not recalibrate the capacity when the BMU was replaced?

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Post by g4qber » Sun, 17 Apr 2016, 14:31

Hi guys
My Imiev is still with the panel beaters to get its washer bottle replaced / repaired.
I will then need to take it to Paceway to get the range meter recalibrated back to the way it was.
Currently overestimating range.

Won't hold breath on replacement battery.

Battery Warranty ends around 11/11/16
Last edited by g4qber on Sun, 17 Apr 2016, 04:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by doug » Sun, 17 Apr 2016, 18:38

Thanks for the replies. I will ask for the battery to be recalibrated, but I suspect the battery might be less than optimum.
When I bought this car, I had the expectation of getting about 5 years on the pack. I would now be really spitting chips if I paid anything near full price for the vehicle, but I still want the warranty honoured. It is bad enough having no local dealer, but to have the hassles of taking the car well out of range for service seems ridiculous.
To get to Southport, I will need to charge at Macadamia castle (possibly 4H, at a site open 8:00-17:00.) Then I will get to Tweed, to sleep in the car at a friends place where I can plug in to his carport power. Then following day to Southport. I have told Mitsub that the car can stay there until sorted.
I am sure they did not perform the battery test after fitting the BMS. There is still a problem with the car because it stopped on me a few weeks ago (went dead, but restarted after key cycle). Has not failed since, but I need to get the error code. I will ask that the perform the battery test as a warranty repair this time, at least. the 45K km service is only a minor one: the 30K was the biggie.

regards, Doug

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I-MIEV Battery Replacement warning

Post by Malm » Tue, 19 Apr 2016, 02:53

Hello Australian fellows

Mine is now at 33,6 Ah. From 4/2011 with 88.000 km. Warranty is over. I made a battery claim last month. Lets see how does it end. Will make a battery test tomorrow in the dealer. My RRs when full are now normally between 80 and 90 km. With smooth driving, it can go to 120 km.

30 less capacity, but I lost only between 15 to 20% of the original range. When new, it should stop with the weakest cell at 3,6 V, now stops with 3,0 V.
I-MiEV owner from Portugal - 81000 km

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Post by BJOR » Fri, 06 May 2016, 16:13

I have ordered the thjing and will put my results up soon

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Post by BJOR » Fri, 06 May 2016, 19:05

The dongle that is, for the canion app.

Pretty excited to see the data and then share it.

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Post by akadavidwebb » Wed, 08 Jun 2016, 23:15

Hi reecho.. could you advise the part number(s) used? I'm having trouble identifying what I need to order. Thanks in advance!
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Post by g4qber » Sun, 07 Aug 2016, 16:09

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

one owner replaced battery at 22k miles
another has replaced cell 23
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