I-MIEV Battery Replacement warning

Mitsubishi EV Interest Group
skylogger
Groupie
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun, 04 Jan 2015, 19:40
Real Name: LARRY MUDD
Location: GIDGEGANNUP

I-MIEV Battery Replacement warning

Post by skylogger » Fri, 14 Aug 2015, 03:54

I would like to warn people of some mis-information and drama's I have endured regarding a 2010 I-MIEV Battery replacement. It has taken 6 months for this issue to be finally resolved. First, a lot of people are under the impression that battery degradation down to a certain battery capacity over a period of time is covered under the warrenty. If you look at the I-MIEV Warrenty regarding the traction battery, the only thing it says is:
MAIN POWER (TRACTION) BATTERY WARRANTY
(330 VOLT) (Electric & Hybrid Vehicles)
The original equipment main power (traction) battery is warranted for 5 years or 100,000 kilometres
(whichever occurs first) commencing from the date the vehicle is first registered.
From what I read on advertisements and other places on the internet, I was under the impression that if battery capacity dropped below 80% within the first 5 years, it would be covered by warranty, but when I asked this question to both the service people at the dealership, and then to Mitsubishi Motors Australia, I was told there is no capacity value drop specified. In a Canadian Warrenty, I found these statements: Main drive li-ion battery is covered for defects in material for 8 years or 160,000 km. ... Gradual capacity loss of Main bat. based on time and usage is NOT covered under warranty. See owner's manual for more info »» In owner's manual it says «« MM estimates that after 5 years, the capacity of the main drive Li bat will be approximately 80% of the original capacity. After 10 years , the capacity should be approx. 70% of original... These are only estimates....»». In the Australian users manual that came with my I-MIEV, I found no reference to battery capacity at all. Here is a statement I sent to Mitsubishi Motors when I tried to put in a claim for replacing the traction battery due to low capacity and range limitation:
I took my Imiev into paceway on 21/04/15 for the 40k service that includes Main traction battery test. Was told to leave car
three days because they had to deplete voltage in battery to do testing. I have been experiencing poor km range on each charge
so I was interested in what the results of the battery test would be. When I went to pick up the car, I asked about the battery
test results but the person at the counter only had the invoice, no battery report. I Rang up the next day and spoke to Rachel the
Service Advisor. I was told that Paceway Mitsubishi was just taken over by AHG and there computers were being upgraded and
she could not get the battery report then but would ring me back. I also asked her what the minimum capacity of the battery that
is guaranteed under warranty but she could not tell me. I had a look at the Warranty documents that I was given, but could not
find the specific minimum battery capacity listed anywhere. I waited 3 days and Rachel did not ring me back. I Rang Paceway
again and was told Rachel was on vacation leave. I then talked to Ashley another Service Advisor, was told he would look into it
for me. Did not get a call back from Ashley so I rang Paceway again. I again asked Ashley for the battery report and asked what the
minimum battery capacity that was allowed under the warranty. He said he would get the Service Foreman Daniel to look into this and
reply. Waited another day and never heard back, So I rang the Paceway Mitsubishi Foreman Daniel Kenevin. I asked him for the report
and also asked what the minimum battery capacity under warranty. He said he would EMAIL me the report and info.
On 13/05/15 Daniel sent me the battery report (attached). The report says my battery capacity is at 36.6ah so I believe this means 72%
based on new batteries suppose to be 50ah Looking through all the documents I got when I bought the car, I could not find anything that
said what the minimum ah or % should be under warranty. I've read on sales info and web pages that the batteries should only depreciate down to 80% in 10 years
and Mitsubishi's warranty is suppose to be 80% guaranteed for 5 years. I could not find this in any of my warranty documentation.
I received a document saying that my warranty would be extended by 5 years (since I was purchasing a DEMO car) but
I did not receive a copy of the Original Factory Warranty in the documentation package. I sent a reply EMAIL to Daniel questioning this low
battery capacity, and was told he was looking into a battery smoothing procedure. He said I would need to wait to book the car in again
after he acquired the details on how to do the battery smoothing procedure. I did a search myself and found this procedure is very simple
and should not require any extensive time to set up for. I have even forwarded a copy of the procedure to Daniel, So there should be noting
now delaying this further. Even with the battery smoothing procedure, I have still at this time not been told what the minimum battery capacity
under the warranty is. I Still do not have clarification if the warranty extension document that I was given by Paceway extends the Time the
battery warranty is covered under. I don't know if the battery warranty runs out in September of this year or is extended by another 4 years beyond that.   


I rang up the 13001312 Mitsubishi Product problem and Dealership problem line and spoke to Emma, and spoke to her about the issues with the
battery capacity. She said she could not tell me what the battery warranty details are but would get a technical person to ring me back.   
I waited another three days, with no call back, and rang the 13001312 and talked to Kira. Again I was told I would have to wait for a technical person
to call me back. I rang the Mitusbishi product problem line again three days later and left a message on the answer machine, as no one picked up the line.
I received a call back message from Hilde saying the Technical staff were away, and would be returning on 01/06/15.
This has now been 6 weeks in trying to acquire this information and a resolution to my battery capacity problem. I will attempt to ring Mitsubishi again
today,( It is public holiday today (only in WA) ) And I was told by Hilda that the Technical Staff would be available today in Eastern States. I rang the 1300
number on Monday, and only got a recoded message saying it was closed (even though estern states was not a holiday)
I rang up again the 1300 Mitsubishi number again on Thursday 04/06/15 and spoke to Will at 9:00am. Was told the technical person was busy on another
line, so left message. Rang up again at 10:30am and spoke to Will again. He said the technical person was out and would ring me back at 2pm tomorrow
(05/06/2015). Back three weeks ago, I was told by Kira that the name of the technical person this was turned over to was Michael Miller. I asked if Michael
worked for Mitsubishi or Paceway. She said she did not know who Michael Miller wash, only that the case was being handled by him.
I can't understand why in All of Australia, only one person can give me this one piece of information, and this one person has not given me a ring back
during this three weeks since this case was assigned to them. Due to this excessive time of 6 weeks since I first tried getting this information,
I will be forwarding the above information to The Australian EV Association, and Whilpool forms and also Consumer Affairs department,
To highlight to other IMIEV owners of this experience.
Here is a reply I received rejecting my claim for warranty battery replacement:
I hadn't realised the time frame of your concerns and sincerely apologise for these delays.

In regards to your manufacturers warranty, your vehicle comes with a 5 year / 100,000km warranty (whichever comes first).
As per the 'General Information' below, Mitsubishi Motors Australia Ltd (MMAL) estimate that after 5 years the battery capacity in your vehicle will be approximately 80% and 70% after 10 years. These are estimates as there are a number of factors that can reduce this capacity and adversely affect the capacity of the battery. We have spoken to Michael Miller and he has informed us that he did make contact with you this afternoon as promised and the concerns you have presented have been explained. Based upon the information provided by the dealership, which has been reviewed by our Technical Assistance Department, we believe no manufacturing defect has been identified.




skylogger
Groupie
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun, 04 Jan 2015, 19:40
Real Name: LARRY MUDD
Location: GIDGEGANNUP

I-MIEV Battery Replacement warning

Post by skylogger » Fri, 14 Aug 2015, 06:25

So I ended up placing an order for a new traction battery:
This is a step I had to do with a Mitsubishi Dealer. I got a quote from Southside Mitsubishi first of around $5800 and then went back to Paceway and got a quote for $5700 There were no battery packs in Australia at all about 8 weeks ago. I was told 1 would be arriving the next week from Japan, And I asked if it could be allocated to me, but by the time the following Monday rolled around, I was told it was already allocated to someone else, and I would be getting a battery sent from Thailand that would take 6 weeks. Before I told Paceway about the 1 due to come in from Japan, they first quoted me 16 weeks delivery leadtime. When the Battery arrived, I dropped into Paceway and was told they could not fit it for me as the only two people trained to fit a battery had left the company. That is when I contacted Patrick at E-STATION, Which put me in contact with Daniel at EFI / EVSHOP. These two companies work out of same address and are a bit of a shared resource. So Daniel removed the old battery and fitted the new one. So 95% of the work was taken care of. Then came a few hickups. The new battery came with a CD and had a new firmware file that had to be updated on the Cars BMU to make it compatible with the new pack. Without this update, When you try and start the car it would have errors and not start. Daniel could use a scan tool to clear the errors and the car would start and run, but if you stop the car, the errors would return and you would have to use the scan tool to clear the errors to get the car to run again.
I then went back to Paceway and was able to get them to load the new firmware into the BMU. They didn't charge me for doing this since I had purchased the battery from them. I thought everything was good, but when I drove away, I found the car only had a range of around 25km. I had read in the service manual that after a Battery replacement, the Battery Capacity parameter and control information needed to be reset. I read on some websites, and also Patrick suggested that By taking the car charge down to empty (turtle mode) and then giving it a full charge, this should reset things. I gave this a try but still had the problem. I ended up taking the car back to Paceway again and getting the reset proceedure that I gave you a copy of run. This actuall had to be run through twice, and on the second pass, It was reporting a 48ah value. In doing test drives since then, The new battery is now giving me a range of 120km. The old battery was only giving me a range of 70km
They advertise that a new car is suppose to do 140-160km but that must not be real world.

Out of all of the hassles with getting work done at Paceway, I started getting progress once I started bypassing the service people at the front desk, and not playing telephone tag waiting on replies, and started only communicating with Daniel the foreman via EMAIL. I have to give Daniel credit and gratitude for helping out with the re-programming and resetting of the battery and control parameters in the final fixes. In the beginning I thought Daniel was going to give me the runaround like the front desk customer service people, But once I started only dealing with him, the things that needed to get done started progressing. But I think with all the other hassles I've been through with the rest of the job, and the lack of customer service on the phone and at the front desk I'll probably be taking my business elsewhere in the future. I'd also like to express my gratitude to the folks at the EVSHOP and EFI (Daniel and Patrick) who where the folks that did the heavy lifting and fitting of the battery. Without them My car would still be sitting still collecting rust.

User avatar
offgridQLD
Senior Member
Posts: 1825
Joined: Tue, 23 Jul 2013, 16:05
Real Name: Kurt
Location: Fleurieu Peninsula, SA

I-MIEV Battery Replacement warning

Post by offgridQLD » Fri, 14 Aug 2015, 14:05

Thanks for taking the time to share all that Skylogger Image

Where do I start, there is some good & bad news in your post.

Manufacturers warranty.

It has never been anything I have taken seriously. Two new cars now (one being the 2012 Imiev) They both have never gone back to the dealer. My view is the money people spend trying to protect warranty (even though it isn't essential) is better saved and spent on parts down the road if need be. To date that hasn't been necessary on both cars. I wouldn't' get to wound up about how the dealership have treated you it's most likely wasted energy in the end. Pay credit to the good guys who helped you and just just be glad your not going to be silly and take your car to be serviced by them. Put your efforts into the EV community and shops that do help you out.

Battery longevity.

I can't say I am impressed with a 4 3/4 year old Imiev with 40k on the clock needing a new battery. That said like anything it depends how you treat it I guess. My guess is the car was most likely baked in the Sun or had high exposure to heat over the 4 & 3/4 years. If this isn't true then perhaps just bad luck with say one sick cell or connection that's letting the pack down. Given some owners are getting around in the same part of the country with 80k on the clock with very mild battery capacity loss. Personally I see no difference in capacity over my car from brand new. Just for the record my car new in the showroom had 120km RR on the dash with a full pack and from that date has shown anything from 155km RR to 60km RR after a charge. It's very dependent on how it was driven befor being charged. Real world I get a solid 100km of real mixed driving with a good 20 - 35km remaining. So yes about 120km range (but I don't use the last bit)

The complete battery bank cost and availability.

Lets just say I feel the price for the pack is very reasonable when you directly compare it to other options or the sum of parts you are getting. We have a president now on what we should be paying for one In AU (some one had to be the first) Even if you replaced it every 5 years that's only $1160 PA. And exchanging it that often you could more of less drive the car like a taxi and clock up as many km as you like. If it last longer than even better. I do feel with ev packs it's a use it or loose it situation. As in you get better value from you pack if you do more KM each year.

Now you have a new battery look after it.

Fresh battery from the factory. keep it cool, don't store it for long periods at 100% SOC (particularly while hot) and do your best to not take it below 2 bars (22% SOC) as a rule of thumb. Again try and store the car some place cool over summer. Cars spend 95% of there life sitting there not being driven. Do your best to make that time sitting there cool. When your out and about find cool spots to park. Heat is the batterys enemy. Sure you need to use the car and don't have to be to pedantic but it's worth considering if you have options. I relate it to driving a ICE car with the air filter removed . It will still work but you will shorten the life.

The old pack.

As already mentioned it would be great to know why your capacity was reduced. Taking a individual cell and cycle testing it from 4.105v and discharging it to 2.75v would be very interesting. Perhaps finding the week cell. Or perhaps finding they are just down on capacity across the board. I'm sure there are a few us us Imiev owners who would love to know more info about the pack in general. About the cell top boards, construction, layout of many things inside the box. You have a few nice options up your sleeve now on how you can make use of the old pack. Stationary storage, range extension, personal DC fast charger and the like.

Technical issues when replacing a OEM pack.

The MUT device that the serves center use to reset the baseline capacity and permanently clear codes. Perhaps there is a option for one (or a aftermarket version) to be obtained so we have the ability to do that our self. Perhaps even purchase one as a group if they are expensive (as it's not something you need often)

Keep the info rolling on your experience. We all love pics and technical details any new info will be very appreciated as we are a small community of owners.

Kurt

User avatar
Gabz
Senior Member
Posts: 580
Joined: Thu, 08 Aug 2013, 03:30
Real Name: Gabriel Noronha
Location: Maitland NSW
Contact:

I-MIEV Battery Replacement warning

Post by Gabz » Fri, 14 Aug 2015, 15:30

thanks for that I expected a lot worse than $5800 for a replacement battery pack.
Corporate Member Recharging NSW Pty Ltd. http://rechargingnsw.com.au/

antiscab
Senior Member
Posts: 2479
Joined: Mon, 26 Nov 2007, 05:39
Real Name: Matthew Lacey
Location: Perth, WA

I-MIEV Battery Replacement warning

Post by antiscab » Fri, 14 Aug 2015, 17:13

I have a battery tester that will do 40A in either direction
88 cells would take me a few weeks to get through

Would you be willing to sell your old battery to someone local?
Matt
2017 Renault zoe - 25'000km
2007 vectrix - 156'000km
1998 prius - needs Batt
1999 Prius - needs batt
2000 prius - has 200 x headway 38120 cells

skylogger
Groupie
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun, 04 Jan 2015, 19:40
Real Name: LARRY MUDD
Location: GIDGEGANNUP

I-MIEV Battery Replacement warning

Post by skylogger » Fri, 14 Aug 2015, 17:45

When I rang up MMAU to talk about the battery warranty, I got put on hold and the usual recorded message warning that the call would be recorded for training and quality purposes, So after all the previous handballing, When I finally got put through to the Technical person, At the beginning of the conversaion I warned him that I also would like to record the phone call on my end. During the call, I mentioned to him that my particual I-MIEV was sold as an EX-DEMO, but was actaully part of the Mitsubishi Trials, and was fitted with the black box recording full history of how the car was previouly driven. I pointed out that it should be easy for him to get access to this information as part of my warranty claim. He then went off on a different tangent saying he didn't know about any other factors, and that because the dealership and I could not show any physical signs of manufacturing defects, the claim would be rejected. I asked him how I was suppose to give evidence of physical mechanical defects, ship the batteries to a lab for dissections and spectrum analysis?
I think in the end, I may have lost the cost of a battery, but when me and lots of other folks get through their embarrassment of being screwed over and let others know, end the end, the Dealerships and MMAU will be hit by loss of business. It a shame that such a well designed and built car ends up in OZ with such poor customer support and service.

In regards to battery longevity, I am still not 100% sure that my old battery has low Capacity. The Technician at the dealership ran the battery through their capacity checking proceedures and got the low AH values, but after getting the new battery fitted I found that some parameters in the BMU needed to get reset so capacity readings are correct. I was monitoring the voltages with canion and all cells looked balanced. I have a solar powered home (off grid) like yourself, currently using 80 6v deepcycle lead acid batteries, So I plan to upgrade the house with the batteries out of my old I-MIEV Pack. If they
come up 74% capacity, that is fine for use on the house. If the BMU paramters were corrupt making it look like the batteries had lower capacity, even better as I may end up with batteries 80 or 90% original capacity. The car may have been saying fuel gauge empty and RR= 0 even with plenty of power left. I only learned this when the same situation came up after the new battery was fitted. The car only had a range of 25km before resetting the AH parameter in the BMU.
Once this parameter was reset, I had 120km range.

The old battery pack was put back into the shipping container, and I had it delivered to my home. I had to use a tow truck with a tilt tray, so the container could slide off the back, since I don't have a forklift at home.
I am impressed by the shipping container that the battery is shipped in.
It's a well built steel box about half the size of the car. You have to take this size and the weight of 370kg into consideration when organizing a battery replacement. I recon the shipping container would probably cost $300-$400 on its own if built here in OZ. It will make an excellent tool box when I'm done.

I've spotted some Chinese clones of the M.U.T.III device on sale for $510.00
You just have to add a Laptop to go with it. It comes with cables and a CD with diagnostic software for Mitsubishi petrol cars. So the hard part is getting access to the Diagnostic software specific to the I-MIEV.

I'll send some photo's and links if someone can point me to where I can learn how to do that.       


skylogger
Groupie
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun, 04 Jan 2015, 19:40
Real Name: LARRY MUDD
Location: GIDGEGANNUP

I-MIEV Battery Replacement warning

Post by skylogger » Fri, 14 Aug 2015, 17:54

Hi Antiscab:
I plan to break up the 88 cells into 5 banks of 16 cells so as to emulate the equivalent to my 48v(54v nominal) solar battery home setup. 3.7v x 16 cells = nominal voltage of 59.2v. My solar charger charges to 54v so I would be charging these to 91%, So workable, just not getting full 100% use, but probably get long life out of them anyway. This will leave me with 8 spare cells, which would either be two of the ELM50-4 or 1 of the ELM50-8 Batteries that are in the pack. I may be interested in selling these spares later once I get everything else setup.

antiscab
Senior Member
Posts: 2479
Joined: Mon, 26 Nov 2007, 05:39
Real Name: Matthew Lacey
Location: Perth, WA

I-MIEV Battery Replacement warning

Post by antiscab » Fri, 14 Aug 2015, 18:57

Ah ok - I was hoping for the whole battery, need 80 cells for a prius conversion
skylogger wrote: 3.7v x 16 cells = nominal voltage of 59.2v. My solar charger charges to 54v so I would be charging these to 91%,


not quite

54v across 16 cells is 3.375v per cell or around 10-15% SOC

to achieve full charge you need to get to 4.1v
4v is around 80% full (or 64v for 16 cells)

this might be a topic for a separate thread, but how adjustable is the charger on your solar power system?

Matt
2017 Renault zoe - 25'000km
2007 vectrix - 156'000km
1998 prius - needs Batt
1999 Prius - needs batt
2000 prius - has 200 x headway 38120 cells

User avatar
offgridQLD
Senior Member
Posts: 1825
Joined: Tue, 23 Jul 2013, 16:05
Real Name: Kurt
Location: Fleurieu Peninsula, SA

I-MIEV Battery Replacement warning

Post by offgridQLD » Fri, 14 Aug 2015, 19:30

Yes as mentioned the LEV50 cells are 3.7v nominal 4.105v fully charged (or at least what the Imiev calls fully charged.

So 14 cells = 51.8v nominal. About 57.4v fully charged. 14 cells would be ideal for a 48v lead acid replacement.

15 cells is about 61.5 volts fully charged and might be pushing it for some inverters some would be fine with it. Though you could under charge a tad to say 4v. 13 cells is a tad low.

I would loved a cell or two to play with.

As for posting pics. There are two ways to go about it.

One is to click on the little icon of a tree with the blue arrow on it called (upload image) Its in the window top tab when you create a new message. You then click browse and selecting it on your pc and it will upload. Images must be of the type, jpg, jpeg, gif, png, and have a maximum file size of 200KB. So most likely you will need to open your pic on your hard drive in (paint) or similar program and save a smaller copy of it. Or change it's format so it's (under 200kb)right clicking it on your pc and selecting (property's) will show it's file size.

The 2nd way is to open a free image hosting account like Flicker, photobucket. There are many more. You can just upload your pic from your pc to to that and create a link to it on the new forum post. I like this way as I have control over my images and there isn't the small size limit or locked into the forum.

Others might be able to assist or offer better options for pic uploads. That or explain it better than me.

Great to see that you have some plans for the old battery (particularly offgrid plans) and are willing to share the experience on the forum.

Kurt






Last edited by offgridQLD on Fri, 14 Aug 2015, 09:34, edited 1 time in total.

skylogger
Groupie
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun, 04 Jan 2015, 19:40
Real Name: LARRY MUDD
Location: GIDGEGANNUP

I-MIEV Battery Replacement warning

Post by skylogger » Fri, 14 Aug 2015, 21:10

Hi offgrid / antiscab:
I see what you mean, looks like I will be configuring 6 banks of 14 cells,
so I'll use 84 cells out of the 88 with 4 (1 LEV50-4 spare) It looks like the LEV50-4 have a cover that can be removed and then remove the buss bars, and individual cells can be seperated, so doing 14 cells would be 3X LEV50-4 + 2 Seperated cells. Thanks for the instructions on sending photo's I'll give that I try once I get some time tomorrow. I first need to open the shipping container that the old battery is in, then I need to construct some kind of A Frame and a block and tackle, to lift the pack out of the shipping container.
Once I get it out in the open, it will be easy to take the pack cover off and start seperating cells and batteries. I've got some cell monitor boards from EVPOWER that I am looking at getting, and a BMU that works with these that is pretty simple. I might start a seperate thread/post once I get into that.


User avatar
offgridQLD
Senior Member
Posts: 1825
Joined: Tue, 23 Jul 2013, 16:05
Real Name: Kurt
Location: Fleurieu Peninsula, SA

I-MIEV Battery Replacement warning

Post by offgridQLD » Fri, 14 Aug 2015, 21:27

" I've got some cell monitor boards from EVPOWER that I am looking at getting, and a BMU that works with these that is pretty simple."

I think you will find the EV power BMS and cell level boards are designed for lifepo4 lithium batterys with a lower nominal voltage. They are not adjustable so don't think they would be of much use but plenty of other options out there that will work.

Yes the pack comes apart relatively easily and each block of cells can be stripped down to the raw cells. That way if you want to parallel up to 6 cells and make 300ah x 51.8v nominal pack (would be less AH if you have lost capacity) You would only need 84 cells all up. 300ah at that voltage is a good size bank for offgrid. I have 400ah and its plenty for my house, workshop and ev charging.(it replaced 1330ah of flooded lead acid)

Man handling heavy things can take a bit of planning though often there is a simple method to make easy work of it. With a big of head scratching I'm sure you will com up with something.

Kurt


Last edited by offgridQLD on Fri, 14 Aug 2015, 11:28, edited 1 time in total.

skylogger
Groupie
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun, 04 Jan 2015, 19:40
Real Name: LARRY MUDD
Location: GIDGEGANNUP

I-MIEV Battery Replacement warning

Post by skylogger » Fri, 14 Aug 2015, 22:43

I've talked to Rodney at EVPOWER a while back about a version of the monitor boards modified to suite the I-MIEV cells. Back then he said it would cost me the price of the original version plus some re-work cost. He said it was only a matter of changing one resistor value. I was thinking of the possibility of just buying the standard version and modifying it myself. I've got the SMD rework capability here. Only problem is that one picture on his website shows some silicon protective blob on top of the circuitry, so hopefully I can get some from him without this blob of Silicone on them. There is one version that has the two terminal holes in the PCB (if same distance apart and same diameter as cells he intended these to be used on), but he also does a version where the second terminal is a wire to a ring terminal, which is probably the version I would need to use.

User avatar
offgridQLD
Senior Member
Posts: 1825
Joined: Tue, 23 Jul 2013, 16:05
Real Name: Kurt
Location: Fleurieu Peninsula, SA

I-MIEV Battery Replacement warning

Post by offgridQLD » Fri, 14 Aug 2015, 23:02

Yep I run the same monitor boards from Rod on my 400ah cells. With the fly lead and ring terminal on them.

I would say a few things (resisters perhaps) wold need to be changed. As they have a low voltage point, high voltage point and balance shunting initiation point.

Yes the main part of the PCB has a block of epoxy over it (the last lot I got had air bubbles all through it and wasn't that impressive (I wouldn't trust dunking that batch it in water) Some older ones I have from him were perfect. But yes you would want them order without it.

Testing them on the bench.
Image

I could point you to some other options that are fully user adjustable set points. Personally I think they are better to.

Kurt

skylogger
Groupie
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun, 04 Jan 2015, 19:40
Real Name: LARRY MUDD
Location: GIDGEGANNUP

I-MIEV Battery Replacement warning

Post by skylogger » Fri, 14 Aug 2015, 23:40

Hi Offgrid:
This thread has gone off topic a bit, I think I'll start a new post/thread so we can really get into the solar use of ex I-MIEV batteries. have a look at new thread I started and we can go from there.


Here is a link to a photo of the container a battery pack comes in:

http://imageshack.com/a/img538/4724/0o2yg8.jpg


http://imageshack.com/a/img912/9383/JtQGsb.jpg
Last edited by skylogger on Fri, 14 Aug 2015, 17:18, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
zzcoopej
Groupie
Posts: 213
Joined: Fri, 14 Nov 2014, 13:37
Real Name: Jeremy
Location: Gosford
Contact:

I-MIEV Battery Replacement warning

Post by zzcoopej » Mon, 17 Aug 2015, 01:10

skylogger wrote: a lot of people are under the impression that battery degradation down to a certain battery capacity over a period of time is covered under the warrenty.


Firstly thanks for posting a helpful account of both the price of a replacement and the dissapointing but expected dodging of responsibility from MMAL.

Have you thought of pursuing a statutory warranty claim under the "fit for purpose" clause? You might need to fight for a while, however Mitsubishi boldly claim the battery in the PHEV (which is identical to the iMiEV) is good for the life of the vehicle. Producing a car where the range drops 50% in the first 5 years isn't really meeting the "fit for purpose" expectations of the consumer.

From the PHEV site "The battery is not a service item which is expected to need replacement during the vehicle's life and replacement isn't included in PHEV's maintenance schedule. There will be some natural degradation of the Litium Ion battery chemistry over the life of the vehicle which could lead to a small reduction in the pure EV range. This is expected to be no more than 20% and, of course, hibrid driving range extension is not affected."
2010 iMiEV
2015 PHEV Aspire
Battery App EvBatMon for PHEV & iMiEV iOS(iPhone,iPad)& Android
www.EvPositive.com

Malm
Groupie
Posts: 171
Joined: Sat, 17 May 2014, 10:18
Real Name: João Ricardo Soares
Location: Tábua-Portugal
AIM: Est. da Lameira, Ed. Choupal, Bl. A , 2º D

I-MIEV Battery Replacement warning

Post by Malm » Mon, 17 Aug 2015, 02:56

Skylogger, thank you for the information. My iMiEV, with 4 years and 3 months, is with 35 Ah, so even less then yours. 48 Ah seems the correct number for a new pack.
I-MiEV owner from Portugal - 81000 km

skylogger
Groupie
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun, 04 Jan 2015, 19:40
Real Name: LARRY MUDD
Location: GIDGEGANNUP

I-MIEV Battery Replacement warning

Post by skylogger » Mon, 17 Aug 2015, 03:22

Hi Malm:

Yes, after getting the new battery fitted, It came up as 48ah, so in reality, even though they call it a 50ah pack, A new pack is starting off at 48ah. So my old pack had a reading of 36.6ah which would actually be 76.25% from what I can see now.
Another thing to consider is that when the battery was fitted, and after the BMU firmware was upgraded, Ah value was still corrupt in the BMU memory and I was then only getting 25km of range. It was only after the capacity and control reset proceedure was run that I got the full 48ah capacity reading from the BMU. So now I am wondering if the data in the BMU was corrupt causing the capacity of the old battery to look worse than it actuall was. To my knowledge, Paceway ran the capacity checking proceedure but did not run the capacity and control reset proceedure.
I saw in one of your other threads a discussion of taking the car down to below 2 bars and then giving it a full charge to reset the capacity. We tried that on my car and it didn't work. That is when I dug through the shop manual and found the capacity and control reset proceedure:

RESET ESTIMATED INFORMATION AND CONTROL INFORMATION OF MAIN BATTERY CAPACITY
If replacing the main battery, reset the main battery capacity information and the control information.
note If replacing the BMU and the main battery at the same time, you do not have to do this procedure.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.Connect the M.U.T.-III to the diagnosis connector with the electric motor switch in the "LOCK" (OFF)position.
2.Turn the electric motor switch to the ON position.
3.From the System select Screen of the M.U.T.-III, select the "BMU".
4.Select the "Special Function" from the BMU screen.
5.Select the "Reset" from the Special Function screen
6.Select the "Battery capacity estimated info" from the Reset screen, and reset.
7.After the estimated information of the main battery capacity is reset, select "Control information" from the Reset Screen to reset.
8.Put the power switch in the LOCK (OFF) position.
9.After the reset of the BMU control information, check the battery current capacity according to the following procedures:
(1) After 10 seconds elapsed from the previous process, turn on the power switch.
(2) Select the "STV (Scan Tool Viewer)" from the M.U.T.-III start screen.
(3) Select the "System Select" from the fault STV top menu screen.
(4) Select the "BMU" from the system select screen.
(5) Select the "Service Data" from the BMU screen.
(6) Check the BMU service data, item No. 23: Battery current capacity.
(7) If the value, item No. 23: Battery current capacity, satisfies 45.0 - 48.0 Ah, go to the step 10. If not, start from step 4 to do the reset of the control information.
10.Turn the electric motor switch to the "LOCK" (OFF) position to disconnect the M.U.T.-III.


skylogger
Groupie
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun, 04 Jan 2015, 19:40
Real Name: LARRY MUDD
Location: GIDGEGANNUP

I-MIEV Battery Replacement warning

Post by skylogger » Mon, 17 Aug 2015, 03:32

zzcoupej:
I'm a bit low on lawyers guns and money at the moment. I have an Ace up my sleve though, because I've got an off grid solar powered house, So my plan at the moment is to pull the cells out of the pack, and reconfigure it as banks of 14x to upgrade the lead acid deep cycle system I am currently using. Canion is showing all cells at same level, so there is not any individual faulty cells. Even at 76%, that would be adding 12kwh of storage to my home system.

I did also notice the following article showing the manufacturer of the cells in the battery pack already getting in a bit of striff from someone with a bit more power than me:
http://insideevs.com/gs-yuasa-reports-3 ... nder-phev/

User avatar
g4qber
Senior Member
Posts: 1731
Joined: Sat, 31 Jul 2010, 06:27
Real Name: Joseph
Location: Perth
Contact:

I-MIEV Battery Replacement warning

Post by g4qber » Wed, 21 Oct 2015, 21:21

http://www.commutercars.com/au/buy-lease-rent.html

price for 16kWh pack costs around USD 5000
2011 i-MiEV - k kms 212

User avatar
zzcoopej
Groupie
Posts: 213
Joined: Fri, 14 Nov 2014, 13:37
Real Name: Jeremy
Location: Gosford
Contact:

I-MIEV Battery Replacement warning

Post by zzcoopej » Wed, 21 Oct 2015, 21:48



Thanks for posting, hadn't seen or heard of the Tango. Makes our 2010 iMiEV's look cheap AND "visually appealing", compared to the even uglier Tango! Still, 0-100 in 3.x seconds is P85D territory, wow. Image
2010 iMiEV
2015 PHEV Aspire
Battery App EvBatMon for PHEV & iMiEV iOS(iPhone,iPad)& Android
www.EvPositive.com

User avatar
g4qber
Senior Member
Posts: 1731
Joined: Sat, 31 Jul 2010, 06:27
Real Name: Joseph
Location: Perth
Contact:

I-MIEV Battery Replacement warning

Post by g4qber » Mon, 26 Oct 2015, 23:43

quote from Wanneroo Mitsubishi is $8000.
finding out if this is GST inclusive.
2011 i-MiEV - k kms 212

User avatar
offgridQLD
Senior Member
Posts: 1825
Joined: Tue, 23 Jul 2013, 16:05
Real Name: Kurt
Location: Fleurieu Peninsula, SA

I-MIEV Battery Replacement warning

Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 27 Oct 2015, 00:08

"quote from Wanneroo Mitsubishi is $8000.
finding out if this is GST inclusive. "

Sky logger already got his from the dealer for $5700. I think that should set a president of how much they are worth.

"This is a step I had to do with a Mitsubishi Dealer. I got a quote from Southside Mitsubishi first of around $5800 and then went back to Paceway and got a quote for $5700"

Edit: Perhaps your price included them replacing the battery.

Last edited by offgridQLD on Mon, 26 Oct 2015, 13:10, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
reecho
Senior Member
Posts: 700
Joined: Sun, 17 Apr 2011, 02:39
Real Name: Richard Baird
Location: Perth WA
Contact:

I-MIEV Battery Replacement warning

Post by reecho » Tue, 27 Oct 2015, 00:34

My quote was $5192 + GST....

Image

User avatar
g4qber
Senior Member
Posts: 1731
Joined: Sat, 31 Jul 2010, 06:27
Real Name: Joseph
Location: Perth
Contact:

I-MIEV Battery Replacement warning

Post by g4qber » Tue, 27 Oct 2015, 02:38

"
I have checked out the price and it is $8000 and that price dose not include fiting

Regards,
Dave Watt | Service Advisor
DVG Automotive Group

www.dvgwanneroo.com.au

Phone: 08 9403 9403 |

E-mail: Dave.Watt@dvgwanneroo.com.au
Address: 6-10 Lancaster Rd, Wangara,
Western Australia, 6065
2011 i-MiEV - k kms 212

User avatar
offgridQLD
Senior Member
Posts: 1825
Joined: Tue, 23 Jul 2013, 16:05
Real Name: Kurt
Location: Fleurieu Peninsula, SA

I-MIEV Battery Replacement warning

Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 27 Oct 2015, 03:06

Looks like you need to inform them that others have purchased in for a lot less. Or take your business to another shop.


Post Reply