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carnut1100
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Post by carnut1100 » Sun, 24 Nov 2013, 15:42

Water does get in through the caliper seals as the piston goes in and out and the seals flex.
Also the calipers are the only part of the system subjected to heat cycles.
By flushing the calipers every 5k the fluid is completely changed at least once a year so it never really degrades much as a whole.
Also there is never any air introduced as the reservoir never empties.

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Post by CometBoy » Sun, 24 Nov 2013, 18:35

Still not total sold on the concept....

The fluid side is under positive pressure and would you not see leaking fluid if mositure could get back in on retraction?

When normally doing a complete flush, the reservoir in normally never taken below the bottom level before topping up and as such air is not put into the system? Have I totally missed something in my logic???

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Post by acmotor » Sun, 24 Nov 2013, 20:03

Perhaps on an EV where the brakes (slave cylinders) may never get hot, there is more concern with water as the area probably stays wet longer ?

Possibly EV brake systems (if the remain hydraulic in the future) require a different type of fluid. Maybe a thin tellus 5 like hydraulic oil that is far more water tollerant, though without the temperature ability.

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Post by offgridQLD » Sun, 24 Nov 2013, 20:11

I'm just looking at it this way. In a ICE car the bias for braking in about 80% on the front wheels. In a car like the Imiev RWD the Regen braking is on the rear wheels.Just the same as compression braking on a truck. I wonder what the brake bias is on it? If its still 80/20 then the front brakes will be doing a fare share of work in sudden hard braking. Drive the car smooth in traffic you wont reach this point but race around like your on a track and I'm sure I could get them red hot.




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Post by acmotor » Sun, 24 Nov 2013, 20:18

Another logging project.... front rotor temperature ! Image
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Post by offgridQLD » Sun, 24 Nov 2013, 20:21

I don't have a IR temp gun (should get myself one) but if anyone dose give it a go.

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Post by CometBoy » Sun, 24 Nov 2013, 20:44

Got one but wonder what conditions I should make the measurement??

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Post by acmotor » Sun, 24 Nov 2013, 21:01

That's it, I going for a drive right now. Image
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Post by offgridQLD » Sun, 24 Nov 2013, 23:46

I guess you could go for a typical drive, city and back or what ever is easily repeatable. Drive as you normally would and then Measure the rotor temp at the end of the trip. Now do the trip again and go heavy on the brakes. Just drive like most people do in a big hurry to get to the next traffic light. Measure again at the end of it .

What your trying to pick up on is if the brake peddle is actually used to brake how much of the effort is being done by the front rotors.

We cant turn regen off to test. Though really we just want to see how hot our rotors are getting in typical driving and comparing that to a ice car of similar weight and size over the same trip. We all know we can get them hot if we want to.

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Last edited by offgridQLD on Sun, 24 Nov 2013, 12:47, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by acmotor » Mon, 25 Nov 2013, 00:34

Ok, just a start at looking at the brake temperature.

A 36km winding hilly country road, rather fun in B regen.
Overcast so road temperature close to ambient. Bitumen roads (gravel driveway)

First half there was no brake rotor/drum temperature rise as it was deliberately as much on regen as possible. emotor at 34 degC

Second half was pushing it more but short of crazy braking. Not driving it really hard, just getting around smartly. The regen pulls you up quite well from 100km/h if you give it the chance. emotor at 43 degC

pics are from end of second half as there was little to show from first half except slightly less tyre temperature rise.

Image
Image
Image
ImageImageImageImage

pics are self explanatory.
I guess the many kW of regen saves a lot on brake temperature.

Need to do this with an ICE alongside and in some real hard driving for comparison as Kurt suggests.
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Post by carnut1100 » Mon, 25 Nov 2013, 02:24

It's not large amounts of liquid water flowing in through the calipers...its very small amounts of moisture migrating in over time.
Heat in the brakes has nothing to do with how fast brake fluid absorbs moisture, but it has a lot to do with whether or not you will boil that moist fluid....and there EVs have an advantage as we rarely use our brakes long and hard.
The rate at which fluid degrades and absorbs moisture is not really going to change on an EV.
Time and exposure to moisture are what will do it.

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Post by acmotor » Mon, 25 Nov 2013, 03:18

Possibly though, the fact that the brakes don't get warm/hot and dry out will mean they spend more time wet and more chance for moisture entry ?
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Post by carnut1100 » Mon, 25 Nov 2013, 12:20

It's the pads and external components that dry out when warm.
The moisture locked into the brake fluid is there for good you would have to boil it out.

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Post by offgridQLD » Mon, 25 Nov 2013, 13:40

I think ACmotor is trying to suggest that the environment around the entire braking components will be dryer due to hot components evaporating it away. Rather that a cold component that attracts moisture.

I think we are plucking at hairs with our theory's.

I think just testing for what we are trying to avoid (contaminated bake fluid) Is the only what to know if and when you have a issue that preventative maintenance can avoid.


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Post by acmotor » Mon, 25 Nov 2013, 17:04

Image at least I offered a theory for the 12 month brake fluid change. Image
Surely it is not just a money grab ?
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Post by g4qber » Sun, 08 Dec 2013, 17:14

Free Servicing in Malaysia for 5 years.

http://www.inautonews.com/mitsubishi-i- ... qPJMTyIpkg

http://auto.family.my/mitsubishi-i-miev ... -malaysia/



free servicing for 5 years
"The i-MiEV comes with a free 5-Year maintenance package and 5-Year warranty (or 100,000km) package which covers labour cost for periodical vehicle check, air conditioner filter and brake fluid."


RM136,118.50 = $AUD 42487.21
so perhaps not so good a deal

since a non-sat nav imiev can be got for $29,990 drive away

but this seems to be a later model that those in aus.
eg. climate control & LED front & rear lights

more confirmation that servicing is free for 5 years / 100,000km
http://paultan.org/2013/03/21/mitsubish ... s-country/


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Post by offgridQLD » Sun, 08 Dec 2013, 21:20

g4qber wrote: since a non-sat nav imiev can be got for $29,990 drive away


$25,000 drive away .Though I think some one has purchased the one I linked to last week.

Kurt
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Post by acmotor » Sun, 08 Dec 2013, 21:22

Image or half that in the US !
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Post by Peter C in Canberra » Mon, 09 Dec 2013, 02:32

offgridQLD wrote:
g4qber wrote: since a non-sat nav imiev can be got for $29,990 drive away


$25,000 drive away .Though I think some one has purchased the one I linked to last week.

Kurt

Mine, a few weeks ago was the sat nav version for $24990 on the road.
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Post by offgridQLD » Mon, 09 Dec 2013, 03:23

Was that new or ex demo?

The one I linked to was basic stereo new (old stock) not ex demo.

Some one snapped it up Image

Kurt
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Post by Peter C in Canberra » Mon, 09 Dec 2013, 12:12

Mine was ex demo with a several thousand km but more warranty left and the sat nav compared with another at the same price near by to me with fewer km but also several months less warranty and no sat nav.
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Post by CometBoy » Mon, 09 Dec 2013, 13:03

Last two i’s (MY-13 – late 2012 build dates) were sold in Adelaide last week (3 still left in Victor Harbour SA but not priced to sell yet). All classed as Ex-Demos. One a friend purchased for just 21,200 cash. Had around 2,000km and was certainly as new (I used caniOn to give it a quick test and see the battery balance etc all was perfect) price included new mats and boot protector. Not sure about body protector strip. Warranty was full but counting started from the date of first registration – I think that was around February 2013. Was the standard model but I never saw the Sat Nav option as a great feature, product or value – very old interface feel compared to what you can get on the market for less dollars – my view only. BTW The hands free Bluetooth seems great on the standard model once you get your PHD in setting it up! Pairs to multiple smartphones very well.

There must be some really good deals on the x-lease cars around Adelaide but I know of only 1 of the 11 or so that were here.... Maybe they have gone interstate for resale?

Kurt I think the $25,000 for a completely new i-MiEV with the complete warranty is still a great deal in Australia. Maybe that was the last new one left?

Should have started a new thread on run out pricing!

Bruce

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Post by offgridQLD » Mon, 09 Dec 2013, 13:51

Yes we payed $25,990 for ours new with 12 months rego and mats. I was thinking that was about as low as the new ones would go for until I ran into the $25,000 silver one on the sunshine coast. It only lasted a few days at that price.


It might have been the last new one in QLD not sure about Australia. I kept saying this is a limited opportunity as once people snap them up I'm sure they are not going to be to keen to sell them. with $1.50 - $1.60 lt petrol prices.

Then the only other option if you want a ev is build your own or spend $40,000 on the leaf.

I almost had a hart attack on Friday when I filled my ute with diesel 60lt in the tank at 1.60lt and at the same time I filled a 20lt container for the tractor. $120 cash vanished from my wallet Image

I could drive over 6000km in the Imiev from that $120 with 15c kwh off peek.



Kurt
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Post by offgridQLD » Mon, 17 Feb 2014, 14:25

I just watched a video where Elon Musk was opening a new Tesla store in Europe. There was a opportunity at the end for people to ask questions.

One question asked was why should I bring my Tesla in each year for a service when there is nothing to service other than simple things I can do at home?

Basically Elon's response was well you don't have to. He also went on to make a point that the warranty has nothing to do with servicing and if you choose to not bring your car in for the once a year service it will have no effect on your warranty in any way.

This is how it should be and you can see the clear difference of how things work when there isn't a dealership network involved.

Dealerships don't make any money from selling the cars. They make all there money from servicing and will go to any length to try and keep that going.

A huge reason why selling electric cars through dealerships doesn't work as they don't want to sell them!

Kurt
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Post by Johny » Mon, 17 Feb 2014, 15:14

offgridQLD wrote: Dealerships don't make any money from selling the cars. They make all there money from servicing and will go to any length to try and keep that going.
Wife and daughters cars are Honda. I do know that the Honda dealership where we take them for service isolate sales from service such that the service dept. have to stand on their own financial feet. I.E Service have to make a profit. Subaru are the same - probably all brands.
It must be a difficult situation for car dealerships to adjust to a car that really does not need servicing - I feel for them (not really).

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