Imiev measured data

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Monkeyboy
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Imiev measured data

Post by Monkeyboy » Sat, 09 Nov 2013, 04:40

Noted offgridQLD, sound advice, but WOOOHHOO to carnut1100 for finding out just how far the Turtle will go. For my records that will be 5 k's. Thanks guys.

and talking of converts,... my good mate just picked a Miev from Rockingham. Is that 11 in Perth now? Soon there will be competition for those free charging stations ,..Dammit!

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Post by carnut1100 » Sun, 10 Nov 2013, 05:40

Yeah....wasn't intending to go right to zero although I had an idea turtle would arise.
I suppose I had to run it right put at some point and now I know just what it will and won't do....also also try to charge before the two flashing bars.
I was house sitting for a few days with nowhere to plug in though...
Last edited by carnut1100 on Sat, 09 Nov 2013, 18:41, edited 1 time in total.

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acmotor
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Imiev measured data

Post by acmotor » Sun, 10 Nov 2013, 14:53

Interesting charging numbers guys.
I've never been below 1 bar for over 40,000km so this is unchartered territory for me.
I for one have always considered the charger to be more efficient than the 85% that is showing up so well done for showing some light here.
I guess one assumption that is still being made is that the accessable capacity is 16kWh.
Remember it is the wall to wheel number in the end that matters.

Johny, have you some wall to wheel numbers on the vogue ? What do the charger efficiencies show up as ?

iMiEV MY12     110,230km in pure Electric and loving it !

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offgridQLD
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Post by offgridQLD » Sun, 10 Nov 2013, 15:55

That's it,
          Even if you work on best case scenario for efficacy and they are letting you using 100% of the battery's capacity it's only 86% efficiency in the recharging.

Measuring the kwh on the output side of the charger would be in the 90s but on the input (wall plug end) 85 sounds reasonable to me.

kurt.

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offgridQLD
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Post by offgridQLD » Sun, 10 Nov 2013, 19:19

I know it dosn't always relate to much real world but anyhow.

After charging my Imiev today I got my record on the RR gauge 154km. The last 24km of driving is what the RR gauge is based on. So the last 24km I did befor charging was local driving in the sunshine coast hinterland. We went to town 10km away and all over town to about 5 different garage sales. It's undulating terrain with a mix of 60,70 and 80kph zones. It was HOT! we had the AC on medium all the time. I wasn't trying to be fugal just the typical relaxed country driving.

Given that this very trip to the local town, school run, shopping and so on is what 80% of our day to day Imiev driving will be based around when we are up here full time. I am very happy with the outcome.

From what few study's I have read and what I have experienced , lithium in general likes working around 30C. Most of my cells were some were around that mark on conion logs perhaps a little less when charging.

It was 154km when first of the charge, pic taken after driving a little.
Image


Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Sun, 10 Nov 2013, 08:25, edited 1 time in total.

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Hippie403
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Post by Hippie403 » Sun, 10 Nov 2013, 22:55

wow, the highest I've seen on ours is 144km

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Johny
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Post by Johny » Mon, 11 Nov 2013, 03:03

acmotor wrote:Johny, have you some wall to wheel numbers on the vogue ? What do the charger efficiencies show up as ?
Sorry for the delay - been on a trip into the country today. As far as I can tell the Vogue charger efficiency is around 82%. That's why I always quote battery to wheel - so I can stick my head in the sand. My charger is of course 12 of 60V 3A Kingpan chargers.

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Post by carnut1100 » Tue, 12 Nov 2013, 05:37

Tonight I racked up 1,900 km since picking up the iMiev.
I have power consumption data for the last thousand km.

Best consumption was 150 Wh/km

Average consumption 180 Wh/km

Worst consumption    220 Wh/km

Best was recorded driving mostly on flat-ish highways at 60-90kmh
Worst was pushing it hard, full throttle up hills, heater and headlights on.
Average includes quite a lot of hills....
Tonight coming Home I noted the RR meter at the bottom of the hill one kilometre from my house.
Holding 45 kmh up the hill the range rreading dropped by 5km over an actual distance of 1 km.
On my 12 km drive to work there is a fair bit of gentle downhill, very light throttle stuff. I often get to work with more range on the meter than there was when I started....

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acmotor
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Post by acmotor » Tue, 12 Nov 2013, 06:47

My advice. Press the button on the RHS of the instrument cluster and display the odometer not RR !   Image Life starts when you focus on where you are going not where you have been.

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offgridQLD
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Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 12 Nov 2013, 20:42

My last fill up I consumed 10.5kw and it took 12.5kw to refill and balance. 81% efficacy plug to battery.

Kurt.
Last edited by offgridQLD on Tue, 12 Nov 2013, 09:47, edited 1 time in total.

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Imiev measured data

Post by CometBoy » Tue, 12 Nov 2013, 21:03

Kurt for what it is worth here are my results from the MightyBoyEV tests a couple of years ago after the Li-Ion upgrade. Worked out to be 83%.

http://www.mightyboyev.com/Li-Ion%20Upg ... 202010.htm

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offgridQLD
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Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 12 Nov 2013, 21:34

Nice write up Bruce.

I will try a few more times and see what my avarage works out to be befor settling on a number.

When recharging the wall plug is reading 2180w - 2200w over the bulk of the charge and the conion obd app is reading 1.7kw (IN)with a 100w resolution. So 81% falls within that scope given the resolution.

Try charging off grid you first loose 20% + through the charge controller - battery inverter and then 20% through the imievs charger/battery. I need to be pumping 3000w from my charge controller to hold float while charging the Imiev on its 2200w charger, yet the Imievs battery's are only absorbing 1750w or so.

Direct DC charging would be so much better off grid with a 250v dc version of my charge controller available now (still not high enough for the Imievs voltage) Part of the reason for me having 8kw of PV to cover all the inefficacy's along the way.

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Tue, 12 Nov 2013, 10:38, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by carnut1100 » Wed, 13 Nov 2013, 05:13

The RR meter for me is just an amusement. Fun to watch it climb even as I drive along the road using power....certainly don't take it as gospel.

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Post by g4qber » Wed, 13 Nov 2013, 06:43

http://youtu.be/zqSLNX3WlHY

will be interesting if anyone can match 219.5km.
Last edited by g4qber on Tue, 12 Nov 2013, 19:45, edited 1 time in total.

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Simon
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Post by Simon » Wed, 13 Nov 2013, 07:21

Have you seen this one? 201.4km with 3bars remaining.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reUnIiD ... ata_player

[tube]reUnIiD92o8&[/tube]

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offgridQLD
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Post by offgridQLD » Wed, 13 Nov 2013, 13:22

I don't think it would be to hard at all. Just need a smooth flat road that you can drive 40 - 50kmh on for 4hrs!

stopping the car then getting the weight rolling again sucks a lot of power. Hills suck power and high speed sucks power. Eliminate all three and you can travel very long distances.

Hardly practical though.

If you live in a flat country town in the middle of nowhere with no traffic or stop lights and you just drove around all day at 50kmh I'm sure you would crack 200km easy.

Kurt.
Last edited by offgridQLD on Wed, 13 Nov 2013, 02:25, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by g4qber » Wed, 13 Nov 2013, 14:48

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baAiN2jFEcc

ditto simon's link

somehow on an iPad2 with iOS 7 the video is pixellated, possibly another bug for iOS 7

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Imiev measured data

Post by CometBoy » Sat, 16 Nov 2013, 16:07

Got a chance to play with the new Bluetooth OBD2 device with the caniOn111 app for the first time this morning. Even with the recently updates it seems to have a few bugs and has shut down several times on my Gallery Note 8.0?
But I was wondering if this screen is of concern or normal? This was taken after a full charge and balance overnight.

Image

Also the Bluetooth device from AH designs (works well) does not have any conformal coating in any way. I think spraying it heavily would be a minimum for long life! Maybe even a potting job?

Will play with more data from caniOn over the next few weeks...

Bruce

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offgridQLD
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Post by offgridQLD » Sat, 16 Nov 2013, 16:55

I updated to the latest version of canion and its been stable for two weeks not one shut down. Befor that update a few issues. The developer is keen to help if you get on the US imiev forum and find the canion thread and explain whats happening he is usually helpful some times asked for a file to be sent to him for review(with instructions how to find it and send it) to iron out a bug (perhaps particular to your device)

Last night I got a little optimistic with my range ability of our imiev and had it loaded up to the hilt with gear + 3 people, roof racks, powering a compress fridge, lights on and did my 104km trip a little aggressively 110kph at times oops. Way to aggressive in the city sections to. Rather than arriving at my house with the typical 20% SOC I had just 12% (at least I know my limits now) Reportedly The turtle comes on at 10% Thankfully my goal not to ever see him still stands.

Anyhow I was thinking it would be a nice chance to see the cell balance considering it was the Lowest SOC my pack has ever seen. To my surprise the cell balance was just 0.005v Highest to lowest.I was very impressed. I am charging it now its about 43% SOC I just checked again and the cell balance is 0.000v Perfect. I will report back when its full.

Image

I wouldn't be worried you have 40mv variation not fantastic but just try a few shallow cycles but make sure you let is fully charge each time say 70% soc - 100% I am reasonably sure the top balancing has a time out. If it doesn't make it to full balance in the allowed time frame you need to catch it next time. It might take a few cycles to 100% SOC before you get that cell where it should be. Just keep a check on cell 32 & 78 next time.

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Sat, 16 Nov 2013, 07:15, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by offgridQLD » Sat, 16 Nov 2013, 18:57

Now at 67.5% charge and still holding 100% balance.

All cells 4.00v I do get some flickering of 0.005v I think its because that's the resolution rounding of the device.

i will let you know in 3hrs when its 100% full

Image

kurt

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offgridQLD
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Post by offgridQLD » Sun, 17 Nov 2013, 19:44

Final balance at 100% SOC..ohh look at that RR number that shows just how tough the last 24km of my trip up were. Big contrast to the 154km RR I got the other day.

Image

discharging it from full back down to 30% soc today had 0.005v variation.

edit: I had cannon disconnect 40min into my return trip today 1st time It has done it in a few weeks now. I'm not 100% sure if its a canion issue or a android/Bluetooth reliability issue. I will see if it happens again.

Though the app is just to valuable to me to to give up on so I will stick with it.

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Sun, 17 Nov 2013, 10:53, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by CometBoy » Mon, 18 Nov 2013, 04:11

Kurt that is one balanced pack!

Ours is still showing 40mv difference on 2 cells. Both after a complete charge and after a 40km trip. The caniOn app seems OK now; I cleared the data and reset the cache. Some of the previous data was from the older cheap Bluetooth device that was hopeless. Time will tell.

After reading the myimiev.com forum on balancing, I will try taking it pass two bars and then do a complete charge/balance. Some literature seems to say this is recommended every so often. Not sure it would help with balance issues but apparently the SOC is recalculated? This car has basically been sitting from the date of manufacture (Jan 2012) – we found it with 33km on the clock. So not sure if this could contribute to the difference compared to yours Kurt? Charging to date has been every night (off Peak) but daily trips are only short (soem less than 40km).

Any others looked at Batt Status with caniOn? Would be interested to know at what point should one be concerned?

Maybe Queenslanders are just better balanced!

Bruce

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offgridQLD
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Post by offgridQLD » Mon, 18 Nov 2013, 04:53

Well I like I said I am reasonably sure the Imiev top balances the cells so you need to charge to 100% to let the cells balance. My thinking was if you do a lot of partial charging not to 100% then the cells could drift out of balance. Isn't that why Mitsubishi comment to do a reasonably regular full charge to 100% Perhaps it will just take A few more 100% charges/balance cycles to bring the two cells into line.

Then again 40mv might not be anything out of the ordinary. I know on all my small Ebike lithium packs I can usually hold about 12-15mv after a balance but they can drift to 20 - 25mv at the end of a deep cycle.

I would love to be able to get data on motor temp on canion. I just came back from a 104km trip today and most of it was freeway. I got under the car and held my hand on the motor it was hot enough I could keep my hand on it for as long as i like but it was border line - quite warm. The pump wasn't running though it did cycle once shortly After about 5 min of heat soaking and the mas of the motor stayed quite warm for some time.I guess what my hand considers hot and what the motor considers hot are two different things. It would be great to know the temp that the coolant pump kicked in at. It just got me thinking what would happen if the coolant pump packed in the motor would have to have some kind of thermal protection? Or at least the controller would get hot (on the same coolant pump) and limit power to the motor.

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Sun, 17 Nov 2013, 17:54, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by offgridQLD » Mon, 18 Nov 2013, 15:30

Ours is a Jan 2012 build. It was sold as a new car. So just had the delivery km on it from memory it had something like 5 or 7 km on the clock . It was sent to our local dealer and had been sitting inside there air conditioned show room building I guess for some time. Apparently they put it on charge now and again once a month of something. I would have prefer they just kept it siting at 50% soc but anyhow you can't have it all your way. When I first inspected it the battery was full.

My weekly use of the car is quiet consistent.

We try and keep the cars SOC around 40- 70% SOC through out the working week.We do small trips Mon-Fri between 5km - 30km each day and the battery gets topped back to around 70% when needed over the weekdays but always keep in that 2/3 range as there is no point filling it to 100%. Typically we only cover 50 - 100km total spread out over the weekdays.

Friday afternoons it gets a full 100% charge and balance. It's then driven 104km down to 20% SOC (2bars) Friday evening and recharged back to around 60 - 70% on Saturday. Sunday it gets charged again from 60-70% back up to 100% and balanced. It's then driven 104km and taken down to around 30% soc and topped up to 70% SOC ready to start the new week.

So between 260km - 310km total traveled each week and its balanced charged to 100% two times a week.

The cars kept in a reasonably stable temp when not in use garage or insulated shed.18 - 28C and 90% of the time its in this location. I avoid where possible parking the car is stupidly hot places. It's not the kind of car that gets baked all day over black tarmac in a train station car park (if its a hot and I am out and about I look for a under cover park or at least a shady tree) I'm not crazy about it but given the choice if I have the option to take care of the battery and give it a easy life the I do.



Kurt

Last edited by offgridQLD on Mon, 18 Nov 2013, 04:36, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by CometBoy » Mon, 18 Nov 2013, 16:28

Yes I'm sure it is top balance so not sure why the comments about deeper discharges would help the balance process?

Kurt your Batt Status seems almost to perfect! You seem to be down to the resolution of the measuring system. I have never seen a pack that good in anything I have played with.

I think I will join the US I-MiEV forum and try and see what others are finding using caniOn for the Batt Status. The main purpose in using this app was to get some base data for the pack in the event of any future warrenty issues. The local service people seem happy to deal with those that understand this techonogy. Not sure how many Mitsi trained in Adelaide but it's a small gene pool....

Bruce

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