Imiev measured data

Mitsubishi EV Interest Group
User avatar
offgridQLD
Senior Member
Posts: 1825
Joined: Tue, 23 Jul 2013, 16:05
Real Name: Kurt
Location: Fleurieu Peninsula, SA

Imiev measured data

Post by offgridQLD » Mon, 28 Oct 2013, 13:56

I have the results for energy recovered coming down the range.

Recovered traveling down 707whr
Consumed going up 1950whr
One way Distance 5.4km

Speed held both up & down 70kmh

My guess is I would consume around 80whr-km or even less to maintain 70kmh on a completely level road so 432whr each way.

5.4km x 80whr = 432whr, 1950whr - 432whr = 1518whr climb consumption.

1518whr - 707whr = 808whr - 432whr = 379whr

Over the 5.4km decent I am roughly 38% better off Regen braking down the hill that just coasting and applying friction brakes to maintain the speed limit.


The total logged data for the 102km trip home was 12,384whr out 2254whr regen. So 10,130whr loss from the battery. Trip consumption 99whr km.

The killer was the average speed of just 47.1km and a time of 2:10 to complete the trip because there was a accident on the highway. It was stop,start-crawl, stop start- crawl all the way. Due to the inability to maintain any flow and having to shift the mass from stop all the time The whr - km was only 5whr less over all at that very,very slow average speed than the same trip without any hold ups were we could travel at 100kph on the highway sections and do the total trip in just over 1hr.

I will throw the car on charge today and see how many whr it takes from the plug to fill it up again.

Kurt



Last edited by offgridQLD on Mon, 28 Oct 2013, 03:03, edited 1 time in total.

CometBoy
Groupie
Posts: 313
Joined: Fri, 20 Jun 2008, 02:59
Real Name: Bruce

Imiev measured data

Post by CometBoy » Mon, 28 Oct 2013, 21:18

Had a play with Canion app today and tried to get data to it via a cheap ELM327 V1.5 OBDII Bluetooth Interface I had from another job and I agree with all the others that it is a waste of time.

I have one of the STN1170 Bluetooth OBDII Adapters on order from Andy Honecker <andywh@yahoo.com> (AH Design) and will hang in there till it arrives. The price has gone up to $125 US (or $135.38 AUD) w/ tracking and insurance. He says they should arrive within 2 weeks. Apparently there is a shortage of the RN-42 Bluetooth modules but I see SparkFun have 15 in stock today?

Some interesting results Kurt, great job.

I am mainly interested in just getting a bench mark given the vehicle is new, Should be useful as a comparison as the years and kms go by.

Bruce

User avatar
offgridQLD
Senior Member
Posts: 1825
Joined: Tue, 23 Jul 2013, 16:05
Real Name: Kurt
Location: Fleurieu Peninsula, SA

Imiev measured data

Post by offgridQLD » Mon, 28 Oct 2013, 21:27

Just finished charging the car after a 10,130whr loss from the battery .

I measured 11910whr from the wall to replenish the battery. So 1780whr wasted roughly 17% for 83% charging efficiency.


Image


Image

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Mon, 28 Oct 2013, 10:28, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
offgridQLD
Senior Member
Posts: 1825
Joined: Tue, 23 Jul 2013, 16:05
Real Name: Kurt
Location: Fleurieu Peninsula, SA

Imiev measured data

Post by offgridQLD » Mon, 28 Oct 2013, 21:37

That's it if the results are consistent it's a very handy reference in the future.It took about the same time for my scantools unit to be send from the US. Ebay has a new system for international shipping were sellers send everything to a central ebay mail depo that forwards it on.Ping ping ponged across the US for several days before being shipped over night about 10 days to Brisbane.It made tracking it very confusing.

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Mon, 28 Oct 2013, 10:40, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
carnut1100
Groupie
Posts: 334
Joined: Tue, 24 Feb 2009, 16:39
Real Name: Greg Milligan
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Imiev measured data

Post by carnut1100 » Tue, 29 Oct 2013, 02:17

First fill up with the new power meter and I got a figure of 170 Wh/km wall to wheel.....given a few more days I reckon an average will settle a little lower as that fill up had a few people testing it...

User avatar
offgridQLD
Senior Member
Posts: 1825
Joined: Tue, 23 Jul 2013, 16:05
Real Name: Kurt
Location: Fleurieu Peninsula, SA

Imiev measured data

Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 29 Oct 2013, 02:39

If your using 170whr - km - plug to wheel with your mates giving it some stick and some hills thrown in. I think the range numbers you mentioned you were getting a little while back are in the ballpark.

I got 119whr km plug to wheel on my last run and that had good chunk of Regen in there and a relatively easy run.

135whr plug to wheel is the factory rated consumption on the window sticker.

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Mon, 28 Oct 2013, 15:40, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
acmotor
Senior Member
Posts: 3603
Joined: Thu, 26 Apr 2007, 03:30
Real Name: Tuarn
Location: Perth,Australia

Imiev measured data

Post by acmotor » Tue, 29 Oct 2013, 04:33

Kurt, your are quite patient on the road. I must admit to driving somewhat harder.
70km/h up/down hill ?   I'd be doing 90 at least up and 11X down.

Did you note the ambient temperature during charge, log the per cell charge voltages and temperatures ? Can you log the coolant pump run times ? I guess the coolant pump represents a reasonable energy usage.

I assume this was at 9A (2.2kW) charge, can you try next time at a 13A (3.3kW charge) if you are set up for that. It would be interesting to see an efficiency number for the onboard charger at the 3.3kW level.
iMiEV MY12     110,230km in pure Electric and loving it !

User avatar
carnut1100
Groupie
Posts: 334
Joined: Tue, 24 Feb 2009, 16:39
Real Name: Greg Milligan
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Imiev measured data

Post by carnut1100 » Tue, 29 Oct 2013, 05:28

Mine with the straight cord and no EVSE charges at a pretty consistent 2850-2900W.

Today I did around 50km of pretty economical driving then coming home the last 5km I put the heater on full blast.
Will see what consumption I got in the morning when I go to work...

User avatar
offgridQLD
Senior Member
Posts: 1825
Joined: Tue, 23 Jul 2013, 16:05
Real Name: Kurt
Location: Fleurieu Peninsula, SA

Imiev measured data

Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 29 Oct 2013, 12:46

The speed limit up and down that hill is 80kph and the local cops love to sit behind a tree and sting people rolling down to fast. Most ICE cars are bogged down doing 70 - 75kph anyhow so I just picked a number that would flow well with traffic.

It's funny the area at the top of the hill were we live is popular for weddings as they get all there photos taken looking out over the glass house mountains. You always see old classic old cars taking people up the range. A lot of them don't make it up the hill. One the other day sounded like it was seconds away from the engine giving its last rotation. With smoke chugging from the back and front and it became slower and slower. The newly weds had a concerned look on there face and the driver didn't look to happy. That 12% grade sure dose suck the life out of your car. I towed a 3ton excavator up it in the Dmax and turbo was whistling its guts out by the 3/4 mark.

I only have the stock 2.2kw charger the only access to the faster charger is a public charge point for me for now.

Temperature was stable as I charged the following morning after the pack had rested overnight. I would say a nice 25C max over the charge time.

Others have measured and reported the cooling pump consumes 70w

Looking closer at the Canion readings while charging it sits around around 1.7kw without the coolant pump running so 500w down on what the wall meter is showing. I have a feeling there is some load just having the car in charge mode I know there is about 200w showing just when the cars ignition is in the on position - not start/run.

To me the losses do seem to high though going by the 1.7kw reading though I would need to be proven otherwise. The consumption readings I see no reason why they are not accurate and follow what you would expect.

On a public charging point at the higher charge rate I noticed the same loss number in wattage. So it's not a linear measurement error.

Regarding that heater it has the potential to use 5kwh on full fr 1hr.

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Tue, 29 Oct 2013, 01:57, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
carnut1100
Groupie
Posts: 334
Joined: Tue, 24 Feb 2009, 16:39
Real Name: Greg Milligan
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Imiev measured data

Post by carnut1100 » Tue, 29 Oct 2013, 13:47

Reading this morning came in at 190 Wh/km.
There were three trips up my Hill in there though....rises from about ten metres elevation to 270 in about 5km with the last 800m being the worst rising around 150m.
First division on the power meter will barely hold 30.

User avatar
offgridQLD
Senior Member
Posts: 1825
Joined: Tue, 23 Jul 2013, 16:05
Real Name: Kurt
Location: Fleurieu Peninsula, SA

Imiev measured data

Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 29 Oct 2013, 14:55

Sounds like your location is contributing to your high numbers a I am sure a ice car would consume more fuel just the same.

Kurt

User avatar
carnut1100
Groupie
Posts: 334
Joined: Tue, 24 Feb 2009, 16:39
Real Name: Greg Milligan
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Imiev measured data

Post by carnut1100 » Tue, 29 Oct 2013, 20:03

Volvo 240 was running around 12-13 l/100

CometBoy
Groupie
Posts: 313
Joined: Fri, 20 Jun 2008, 02:59
Real Name: Bruce

Imiev measured data

Post by CometBoy » Thu, 31 Oct 2013, 03:09

What the?

Got a chance to measure the first w-h/km data today. The vehicle has only done 330km now but the results for this short run seem hard to believe!

I will check it out over the next couple of days when she does some longer runs.

But here are the first figures:
Charge cable used was the Voltec (ie GM Volt product). Peak amps about 9.4 amps and PF about .98 . Watt meter used was a Clever Watts MS-6118. The same one I have always used with the MightyBoy over the years and I trust its results. Drive consisted of a max speed of just under 70km/h mixed start/stop driving Brighton to Adelaide City return with a couple of fast starts from the lights but other than that normal city driving. All using “D” mode. Started with a full charge...

Total Distance Travelled – 26.2 kms

Power input from the wall to do a complete recharge – 2244.6 watts

So looks like 2244.6/26.2 = 85.7 w-h/km

Is this remotely possible? Regen does seem excellent on this MY-12 model but...

What have I overlooked??

Bruce

User avatar
offgridQLD
Senior Member
Posts: 1825
Joined: Tue, 23 Jul 2013, 16:05
Real Name: Kurt
Location: Fleurieu Peninsula, SA

Imiev measured data

Post by offgridQLD » Thu, 31 Oct 2013, 03:21

Well I grew up in Adelaide and spent a lot of time riding bikes around Adelaide as a teenager so I know its as flat as a pancake (comparing it to Brisbane) so that sounds about correct to me.

Take it for a drive to Hahndorf and then back to Adelaide that's about a 52km return trip and that would be similar terrain to what all my posted numbers are recorded in. I would say you would use about 7kw driving there and back about 52km or 135wh - km... give it a try if your wife lets you use it on the weekend.

And yes the Imiev is a very efficient EV

Having live monitoring through canion app I can see my instantaneous whr/km consumption and I am always shocked how little it is to hold a given speed on flat ground.


Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Wed, 30 Oct 2013, 16:46, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
offgridQLD
Senior Member
Posts: 1825
Joined: Tue, 23 Jul 2013, 16:05
Real Name: Kurt
Location: Fleurieu Peninsula, SA

Imiev measured data

Post by offgridQLD » Thu, 31 Oct 2013, 03:58

I just typed your trip into the online EV calculator and its showing 2.8kwh consumption for your trip 29.7km distance at 50kmh average speed.


The elevation gain /loss over the trip is only 40m Image In Brisbane you get that elevation gain just backing out of your drive way Image



Image

Image

Image

Actual total gains are not that huge in Brisbane just lots and lots of sharp short steep hills, For comparison this is what the 20km trip to the cbd and back from my house looks like on a elevation profile, I can get it down to around 100whr-km if its just 50-60 zones.

Image
Last edited by offgridQLD on Wed, 30 Oct 2013, 17:12, edited 1 time in total.

CometBoy
Groupie
Posts: 313
Joined: Fri, 20 Jun 2008, 02:59
Real Name: Bruce

Imiev measured data

Post by CometBoy » Thu, 31 Oct 2013, 04:25

Thanks for that, should be able to use the Canion App in a couple of weeks, got an email from Andy this morning saying the STN1170 orders will be shipped by the end of the week.

I guess I am comparing to the 700kg MightyBoy with no Regen. Always thought 115w-h/km was great.

Will try the Hahndorf trip, 7kw seems low to me given the climb and 100/110 km/h speeds. I show it as 35.2 km from our house via the freeway so about 70 km round trip. But yes, the longest and highest climb we have around here.

Bruce

User avatar
offgridQLD
Senior Member
Posts: 1825
Joined: Tue, 23 Jul 2013, 16:05
Real Name: Kurt
Location: Fleurieu Peninsula, SA

Imiev measured data

Post by offgridQLD » Thu, 31 Oct 2013, 04:41

Ok then yes forget that number then if its 70km return from your house with some 110 thrown in.

Kurt

User avatar
carnut1100
Groupie
Posts: 334
Joined: Tue, 24 Feb 2009, 16:39
Real Name: Greg Milligan
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Imiev measured data

Post by carnut1100 » Thu, 31 Oct 2013, 15:10

Image

Image

Screenshots from the FuelLog app showing power consumption.

User avatar
offgridQLD
Senior Member
Posts: 1825
Joined: Tue, 23 Jul 2013, 16:05
Real Name: Kurt
Location: Fleurieu Peninsula, SA

Imiev measured data

Post by offgridQLD » Thu, 31 Oct 2013, 15:23

180wh - km average sure looks like a lot of hills or a heavy right foot. Do you have off peek electricity available? As 28 Cents - kwh could be significantly reduced.

User avatar
carnut1100
Groupie
Posts: 334
Joined: Tue, 24 Feb 2009, 16:39
Real Name: Greg Milligan
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Imiev measured data

Post by carnut1100 » Thu, 31 Oct 2013, 18:44

No off peak sadly.
The lower tariff is only on hardwired hot water systems and heat pumps, not power points.

I live at 270m elevation and the last kilometre climbs over a hundred metres.
My trip home last night from my badminton match involved a 3 km climb from just above sea level to 400m then a drop down to 60m then a climb to 150 over about 4km followed by a 1 km climb to 270m.
My driving is not top grade hypermiling but I try and keep the needle around the Eco lettering, use N when on gentle grades, and rarely push the needle past the first 16kW mark on the gauge.
Climbing my Hill though needs a bit more throttle, first mark it will not hold 30 kmh....

User avatar
offgridQLD
Senior Member
Posts: 1825
Joined: Tue, 23 Jul 2013, 16:05
Real Name: Kurt
Location: Fleurieu Peninsula, SA

Imiev measured data

Post by offgridQLD » Thu, 31 Oct 2013, 18:56

From what you have just described of the of terrain. I am actually surprised your getting numbers under 200whr - km.

With hills climbing them at a low speed isn't going to save you any more energy over going fast. other than the difference you would see between the two on flat ground.

For example climb hill at 50kmh vs climb it at 80kmh , lets say the difference in consumption between the two speeds on flat ground is 50kmh = 50whr-km & 80kmh = 80whr - km so 30whr-km difference. That's all you will see between the two speeds no matter what the grade of the hill.

I actually find (not date to prove it though) that going up the hills a little faster is more economical to a degree within limitations. Rather than bogging the motor down with a single speed transmission. You gain a bit of momentum to.

I know it takes 1950wh to climb a 500m high range at 70kph . Tomorrow I will do it at 80kmh (I would have said 100 but 80 is the speed limit) and note the difference in consumption.

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Thu, 31 Oct 2013, 08:01, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
carnut1100
Groupie
Posts: 334
Joined: Tue, 24 Feb 2009, 16:39
Real Name: Greg Milligan
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Imiev measured data

Post by carnut1100 » Thu, 31 Oct 2013, 19:30

What was that calculator you were using to estimate the consumption on a particular route?
Would be interesting to compare to actual values...

User avatar
acmotor
Senior Member
Posts: 3603
Joined: Thu, 26 Apr 2007, 03:30
Real Name: Tuarn
Location: Perth,Australia

Imiev measured data

Post by acmotor » Fri, 01 Nov 2013, 02:03

carnut1100 wrote: ............
My driving is not top grade hypermiling but I try and keep the needle around the Eco lettering, use N when on gentle grades, and rarely push the needle past the first 16kW mark on the gauge...........


What are you saying ?... 'use N when on gentle grades' ??? It is not a manual ! just leave it in drive. It will only use the energy it needs there is no saving. The 'engine braking' of an AC electric drive is controlled by the accelerator pedal. If you back off and that results in engine braking then regen is occuring. You won't make it work any better than it is already set up. Remember, engine braking in an ICE is wasted energy. 'Engine braking' equivalent in an EV is energy recovery. If you are coasting on gentle grades then you will have your foot lightly and steady on the accelerator to hold your speed. The power meter will show zero.
It is also potentially dangerous to operate a PMAC motor with its drive VFD not active... although I guess mitsi have allowed for that. They do say in the owner's manual not to coast in N though.


iMiEV MY12     110,230km in pure Electric and loving it !

User avatar
offgridQLD
Senior Member
Posts: 1825
Joined: Tue, 23 Jul 2013, 16:05
Real Name: Kurt
Location: Fleurieu Peninsula, SA

Imiev measured data

Post by offgridQLD » Fri, 01 Nov 2013, 02:25

+1 on that,
           when in N you unload the drive line and upset how the car handles. I hate the feeling of driving a car in N as I can't modulate the load shift on the chassis and it just feel so wrong. As mentioned just use the accelerator peddle to modulate everything and the brake as the last resort if you need to stop.

Reading over your post again I would call that serious hypermileing. I just get in and drive it without even looking at the power gauge now. I just drive at the speed I need to go and flow with the traffic.

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Thu, 31 Oct 2013, 15:27, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Gabz
Senior Member
Posts: 580
Joined: Thu, 08 Aug 2013, 03:30
Real Name: Gabriel Noronha
Location: Maitland NSW
Contact:

Imiev measured data

Post by Gabz » Fri, 01 Nov 2013, 02:34

carnut1100 wrote: use N when on gentle grades,

Yes why would you use N at all in a EV unless your being towed ? (even then the book says tow with all 4 wheels of ground if possible)

Post Reply