Imiev measured data

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Simon
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Post by Simon » Sat, 21 Dec 2013, 18:56

The SOC is reading 90% so that's probably why the charge rate has dropped to 2.4Kw. Did you notice a higher reading earlier in the charge?

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Post by acmotor » Sat, 21 Dec 2013, 19:12

Gabz wrote: your forgetting AC to DC converter losses of 80-90%

Should that read 'AC to DC converter losses of 10-20%' Image
The point is correct though.
The CAN data appears to be the sum of cell top voltages and the current is the pack current. Either canion multiplies these for kW (or the CAN bus contains a kW number)

Mains 3.1kW x 80% = 2.48kW or thereabouts.   edit: into battery pack

I'm still wondering why a modern charger is not 95%+ efficeint given grid connect inverter efficiencies around 97%. It is the same silicon and less complex.

Is there a full breakdown of the CAN bus data stream on the net yet ? That would be interesting.   Image
Last edited by acmotor on Sat, 21 Dec 2013, 08:13, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by acmotor » Sat, 21 Dec 2013, 19:30

Just a heads up.
J tried the scantools MXII BT CAN scanner used ok in MY12's in a 2010 iMiEV and no data stream results. So there may be something different there.
Any ideas ?
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Post by g4qber » Sat, 21 Dec 2013, 19:32

From observation, the kWh meter on the bollard generally increases by 1watt per second
This works out to 3.6kWh

When the pack is nearing full this count up is reduced to 1 watt per 1.5 to 2 secs.

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Post by CometBoy » Sat, 21 Dec 2013, 20:00

Johnny, have a look at page 14 of the factory battery removal document.

Edit : See post by Adverse Effects (6 posts down) for the correct link to this manual.......

Sh*t, and I thought the guy was crazy in that video we spoke about earlier using water.

Bruce

Edit: If this helps here is a word Docx file with page 14....

Step_2B_battery_removal.docx      
Last edited by CometBoy on Sat, 21 Dec 2013, 17:13, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Gabz » Sat, 21 Dec 2013, 20:10

link doesn't work as it censors the word sh*t. in Mitsubish*techinfo

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Post by Adverse Effects » Sat, 21 Dec 2013, 21:16

WTF ? ? ?

[url=https://www.mitsubish*techinfo.com/epacarb/2012%20I%20Dismantling%20guide.pdf]Mitsubishi i-MiEV Dismantling Guide (2012)[/url]
[ Edited Coulomb: corrected URL from 4 posts down:
Mitsubishi i-MiEV Dismantling Guide (2012)
]

1) Soaking the vehicle in water

Step 1. Set up an easy set pool in the size of approximately 450cm X 200cm X 70cm

Step 2. Use a forklift or similar equipment to place the vehicle in the center of the pool.

Step 3. ★Open all windows, doors and the tailgate.

Step 4. ★Make sure to use water that does not contain salt (use tap water, well water or pond water) to prevent an aggressive chemical reaction and the excessive release of flammable hydrogen gas.

Fill the pool with water until a minimum required depth of 50cm [20 inch] is achieved.
Front and Rear tire height is about 50cm [20 inch]. (See illustration below.)
This water level is considered deep enough for the Main drive lithium-ion battery to be
completely submerged in water.
If the vehicle body is significantly deformed due to impact from a crash, make sure that the
Main drive lithium-ion battery installed under the floor is completely submerged in water.
Add additional water if necessary.
★Maintain this water level for at least 72 hours with the Main drive lithium-ion battery soaking
in water.

[ Edited Coulomb: Repaired bad Unicode chars in preparation for conversion to phpBB ]
Last edited by coulomb on Tue, 11 Jul 2017, 16:55, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by CometBoy » Sat, 21 Dec 2013, 21:25

Adelaide water would kill the complete EV!

I just can not believe the service manual would do it this way but I guess the pack is considered cactus anyway and not even sure they would want the casing back... most likely ALL off for recycling. Guess they know it's 100% electrically safe to handle!

I know some of the ex lease cars are getting new packs fitted by Mitsi before being sold...

Bruce
Last edited by CometBoy on Sat, 21 Dec 2013, 10:29, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Gabz » Sat, 21 Dec 2013, 21:42

they must still recycle them it's the only car which has in the manual if you wreck it Mitsubishi still want the batteries back. the water would remove the heat if you've shorted a battery.

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Post by acmotor » Sat, 21 Dec 2013, 22:14

RE: EV water torture..

Given that this procedure is intended to render the vehicle safe after a major vehicle accident when the ECU/BMU are not operative then it is probably a fair procedure. We are talking vehicle is a write off... just make the battery safe without needing to understand it.

It, or some similar proceedure, will be used one day on an EV.

Keep in mind that procedures like this are often written for folk who consider electricity to be witchcraft   and/or   in order to gain approvals for a technology there needs to be a doccumented safe handling procedure in the case of major crash. This one would work if actually required.

A garden hose in the pack air intake inside the iMiEV would also do the job. Just leave it turned on for a few days.

No mention of the disposal of the 5,000 litres of contaminated water ?





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Post by Adverse Effects » Sat, 21 Dec 2013, 22:39

i have worked out why the link wont work

i will add _ all over it so you can see it

www . m_i_t_s_u_b_i_s_h_i_t_e_c_h_i_n_f_o . c_o_m

see the word sh_i_t in the middle

its turning the "i" in to a "*"

this one will work

Mitsubishi i-MiEV Dismantling Guide (2012)

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Post by CometBoy » Sat, 21 Dec 2013, 22:55

Well Done!!

Always so simple when you look? So why does it replace the "i"?? Is it considered a "wild" or replacement character because I used the Sh*t later in the post?? Like all "i's" will be replace with "*".

Bruce Image

[Edited Coulomb: can't have Unicode smileys for technical reasons to do with the upcoming Web Wiz to phpBB conversion ]
Last edited by coulomb on Thu, 13 Jul 2017, 15:42, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Adverse Effects » Sun, 22 Dec 2013, 00:11

CometBoy wrote:Edit: If this helps here is a word Docx file with page 14....


it would help a lot more people if it was saves as a .DOC(free to all use format) not a .DOCX (microsoft only format)

when you go save or save as down the bottom you can save as doc instead

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Post by coulomb » Sun, 22 Dec 2013, 00:55

Gabz wrote: your forgetting AC to DC converter losses of 80-90%

Errm, that's efficiency of 80-90%. So losses would be 20-10% respectively. [ Edit: oops, I see ACmotor has mentioned this already,over the page. ]

It could also be that your dc/dc is taking some of the charger output, to run various fans, pumps, computers, instrumentation, the clock, and so on.
Last edited by coulomb on Sat, 21 Dec 2013, 14:02, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by coulomb » Sun, 22 Dec 2013, 01:23

g4qber wrote: Hi Kurt

Please explain why it says 3.1kW on the clipsal 15A power meter but only says
-2.4kW in the app
is the pack only accepting a 2.4kW charge?

Other possibilities: the Clipsal might be over-reading the mains power into the charger; it may be confused by the switching power supply (though it should be smoothed and near 100% power factor), and it may be designed for 10 A maximum (so accuracy may suffer above about 2500 W).

At the other end, 2.4 kW is pretty low for EV discharging, so accuracy may be low. For example, the power would be calculated by multiplying voltage (easy to get accurate) times current (may be measured by a hall effect device, which can have a significant DC offset, and may be affected by magnetic fields, even the weak field of the earth that affects compasses). Does it read zero kW when not charging and not driving? If not, you can compensate.

Example: when doing nothing, it says +0.3 kW; when charging, -2.4 kW. That's a difference of 2.7 kW (add them because the sign is different). Then 2.7 kW into the battery would mean a charge efficiency of 2.7/3.1 (presuming the Clipsal to be accurate), or 0.87 or 87%. If there is 200 W of load from the dc/dc (wild guess), then it's really 2.9 kW from the charger, for an overall efficiency (through the charger) of 2.9/3.1 = 0.936 or 93.6%.

That zero offset (which also drifts with temperature, and depends on stray magnetic fields) is one of the reasons we went for a resistive shunt in the MX-5. (I'm not saying that the iMiev uses a hall effect device; a quick search didn't reveal whether it does or not.)
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Post by CometBoy » Sun, 22 Dec 2013, 04:53

Off the topic but....

Adverse Effects, re Docx format....

Many involved in electronic punlishing actually like Docx and see it as a much better option. Docx was hated when released 6 years ago but the world has moved on and the advantages far outweigh the disadvantages. Especially in the epub area. Here is a good summary:

http://www.thebookdesigner.com/2013/04/docx-vs-doc/

And all the current open source Android office readers like Polaris Office fully support it. Plus the iPhone/iPad (with FastZip or your favorite app).

But take your point..... and will use pdf or doc if you want to keep old software users happy should it be needed in the future.

Bruce

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Post by g4qber » Sun, 22 Dec 2013, 05:16

I was wrong app does work on HTC one

Started from scratch
Ie rename / delete Btcan.db file

<edit 301213>
Last edited by g4qber on Mon, 30 Dec 2013, 04:46, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Adverse Effects » Sun, 22 Dec 2013, 05:18

<--- small business computer repair/installer/designer/point of sale installer and maintenance (and so on)

i but heads with this DOC and DOCX every day there are a hell of a lot of people out there that just dont want to upgrade there systems and software and when i am asked to end up spending a lot of time converting DOCX to DOC or PDF so it can be used by all

hell one of my clients is still running DOS 6.22 and EGIAL 4.17 database on a serial network and has never had a database corruption and i am guessing there arent many people left out there that still know how to run DOS6.22
Last edited by Adverse Effects on Sat, 21 Dec 2013, 18:20, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by g4qber » Sun, 22 Dec 2013, 05:24

Kurt,
I get crashes when I scroll through the screens. Could be a memory allocation issue?
the canmonitor service is still running so I swipe down & tap the yellow icon to relaunch the app.

even another reviewer has mentioned on the playstore that this app crashes.

I find that the app crashes if it loses BT signal
ie. after power off.

it is really great that the OBDII dongle is powered up when the i is charging.Image
Last edited by g4qber on Sat, 21 Dec 2013, 18:27, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by acmotor » Sun, 22 Dec 2013, 07:33

Re the power numbers earlier that coulomb commented on...

The clipsal power meter is on the money. I've looked at that. Maybe 1% error.

The current measurements are made inside the battery pack by an active current sensor (hall effect ? it is 4 wire connection including +5V supply ) with a coarse and a fine output to the BMU.... I'd not expect any appreciable error there. It is resolving at least 0.1A in 160A without drift according to the canion app when looking at operating currents. The fine range is looking at the accessories and onboard charging, the coarse at the motor ? Just guessing.

Good point re the maths when considering the other loads active during charging. Kurt raised that re the coolant pump (biggest load during charging, though ambient temperature dependent), but yes, need to look at these closely. That would make me happier if the charger itself was well over 90% efficient.   Image

I get the canion app crashes, but I was putting it down to incomming calls on the mobile... well they definitely kill it.

Looking for your wise words Kurt. Image

PS boring cell voltage there J. Image
Seems Mitsubishi have a favourite number and can consistently reach it.   Image
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Post by offgridQLD » Sun, 22 Dec 2013, 11:54

I'm 250km north of Adelaide camped along side the murry river (slow internet on iPhone) Got told to get off the forums and enjoy the family holiday lol .I will jump online later when I have my laptop and faster connection speed.

Good to see more people playing with the app. Remember if you think the effort the creator has gone to getting it to where it is now (not perfect but handy tool) it's worth making a small donation to him for his efforts. Perhaps we can get him to address some issues and add some features.

Kurt
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Post by acmotor » Mon, 23 Dec 2013, 00:07

A PV powered hideaway in the hinterland and you go camping on the Murray ?? Image It is nice down south though.
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Post by g4qber » Mon, 23 Dec 2013, 03:58

Image

40% regen

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Post by CometBoy » Mon, 23 Dec 2013, 04:00

Happy days.... took just under 2,000km but the pack is balanced now. Range seems better every day easily doing 100km with AC flat out on the flat Adelaide plains.

Image

And the conditions (SOC, etc) of this reading are as below...

Image

Also tested the hands free a good dozen times and no caniOn drop out at all. I'm using a fast tablet (Samsung Note 8) and the cheaper BT OBD2 CAN adapter - not the Scantool one. Seems around 400fps data rate.

I do have problems first connecting on occasion but generally good results after that first good pair.

All graphics screen are perfectly displayed.

_____

Forget....Adverse Effects, maybe I should use .TXT for your DOS clients!

I do take your point but I guess I look at the technologies we are currently trying to support and feel DOCX is better suited to the bulk of today’s users. Others are always resistant to change.

WHY? The .DOCX format is built around an open standard called Extensible Markup Language, or XML, that is used in many different modern web applications. XML language also uses web-standard cascading style sheets, or CSS, for formatting in the document, meaning that it will translate to other web-like formats, like eBooks, with higher degree of accuracy in a repeatable way.
______

g4qber great result! What were the driving conditions to get that 40%? On a MY12 model??


Bruce
Last edited by CometBoy on Sun, 22 Dec 2013, 18:08, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by g4qber » Mon, 23 Dec 2013, 06:39

2011 model.
I think it is a discrepancy
the regen can even start at 287% then gradually work its way down to around 30%

i tend to get crashes when swiping between screens.
this is on a Asus Google Nexus 7 1GB RAM, 16GB without rear camera.

BTW harvey norman is selling their 16/32GB model for $198.
sale ends Tuesday.

now I know why the volt reports approx 2kW charging, cos that is what is going into the pack.
volt charges at 14A.

hmm that's weird the trip page X axis doesn't seem to match the odometer reading.
says 700's on the X axis but 1911 on the odometer.
Last edited by g4qber on Sun, 22 Dec 2013, 19:55, edited 1 time in total.

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