Imiev measured data

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offgridQLD
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Imiev measured data

Post by offgridQLD » Mon, 18 Nov 2013, 16:42

I would say Adelaide would be one of the better places to get good service on a Mitsubishi given the large presents the company has (or did have?) in Adelaide. I always found it easy to find parts in stock and good service for Mitsubishi cars in Adelaide. (though it was many years ago)

Yes a larger data pool is needed.

On that note if there are any Imiev drivers in Brisbane that want to have a go at the cannon application. Just to check there cell balance and a few key data points. I am more than happy to Bring my tablet and OBD scanner to one of the monthly meetings or some other arrangement so they can give it a try.

Kurt


Last edited by offgridQLD on Mon, 18 Nov 2013, 05:56, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by CometBoy » Mon, 18 Nov 2013, 16:52

Likewise, anyone wanting to collect the data in Adelaide can PM me to borrow the needed bits.

Bruce

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Post by CometBoy » Thu, 28 Nov 2013, 14:20

Update on the new i-MiEV battery balancing...

Looks like it is just a matter of time to achieve a well balance pack like Kurts.

Image

Here are the results when checked this morning after a complete charge. So in 350 kms and a few charges, things have improved already.

This thing continues to impress. She has started using the ‘feathering touch’ of the brake to kick in what appears to be harder regen when slowing or stopping. Actually does help! Plus the brake lights are then switched ON. Certainly much better/safer in traffic as well. Not sure why we didn't know about doing this before - just slow learners!

Bruce

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Post by offgridQLD » Thu, 28 Nov 2013, 14:30

That's great, You have halved the balance gap already. It Will be interesting to see how close you can get it.

The feathered brake peddle sure dose up the regen. You can see it's effects on cannon very clear and I agree the brake light it a nice thing for the people behind you.

I think Mitsubishi have done a great job making this electric car so you can just get in it and drive it like any other car and you will get a nice balanced result.

By that I just put it in D and drive It like any other car. I don't pay to much attention to driving it like a electronics experiment to achieve max outcome and the results are still very pleasing.

Kurt
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Post by carnut1100 » Fri, 29 Nov 2013, 19:03

Wish the 2010 had the extra regen on braking....

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offgridQLD
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Post by offgridQLD » Sun, 08 Dec 2013, 20:38

I finally got around to ordering a clamp meter. I couldn't justify the cost of a fluke for my tinkering projects but I thought I would lash out a little than the real cheap ones and get a true RMS meter as some of the things I will use it for a PWM and it wasn't much more expensive. Asian brand but they got some reasonable reviews. The jaws are a little larger than I would have liked but not the huge crab claws that some have. Might even come in handy for quick measurements on my off grid system. It has a 40A and a 400A mode.

http://extech.com/instruments/product.a ... prodid=814

Kurt
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Post by offgridQLD » Wed, 11 Dec 2013, 14:01

My clamp meter came in the mail yesterday so I had a play on the Imiev. Testing the DC loads on the 12v lead acid axillary battery.

Ignition switched to accessories position 3.53Amps (I have deducted this base load from all my other readings)

Cabin fan on low 3.00 Amps, Medium 4.84Amps, high 9.09Amps, Boost 12.57A.

Parking lights 1.74Amps, low beam 10.54A, high beam 20.11Amps.

Radio - volume on 2/3 0.22Amps (perhaps the radio was consuming power even though it was off during the idle consumption test. The screen is still on and clock. Or perhaps it just consumes 3 watts (suspicious of that one) I will pull the radio fuse out and repeat the base line idle consumption test again to see if I get less than 3.53Amps.


It was interesting to see the imiev charge the battery from the traction pack when the ignition was turned to start after the load testing. It started charging the battery at 30amps and then shortly after ramped all the way down to 0.700Amps. Turning 12v loads on while the car is in start all loads were covered by the traction pack feeding the lead acid battery and providing a steady 0.700amps above the load on the battery. All very stable with little to no overshooting in any direction (the accessory battery will last a very long time)

Kurt
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Post by CometBoy » Wed, 11 Dec 2013, 14:14

Useful information – Thanks Kurt.

Will put a copy in my service stuff for future reference.

Btw, What is the actual DC current resolution (and maybe the lowest DC current that you can measure) on your new toy? Not the paper spec but under a real test.

The one I borrow is very average and doesn't come close to what is mentioned in the Tech Spec on the product.

I’m in the market for one as well.

Bruce
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Post by Johny » Wed, 11 Dec 2013, 14:18

offgridQLD wrote:All very stable with little to no overshooting in any direction (the accessory battery will last a very long time)
Kurt
Kurt, at what voltage do they hold the accessory battery with traction power on?

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Post by offgridQLD » Wed, 11 Dec 2013, 19:54

Bruce,
      All clamp meters even the big name - (expensive ones) have some degree of drift and limited accuracy. Particularly when your using a meter designed to read 1000 Amps and your trying to read say 100 ma loads.

That said for the kind of 12v battery measurements we might be doing in the 40 Amp resolution mode you should be able to expect perhaps 10 - 30 ma resolution on a good clamp meter. When measuring over 40 Amps in the 400 Amp mode then ma accuracy is of little concern. I'm happy if I am measuring a 3.000 Amp load and it shows 2.970 Amp or 3.030 Amps or perhaps bang on if your lucky.

A calibrated shunt is the way to go if you want reliable measurements at very low current. I will test this meter along side a calibrated shunt reader over the weekend as a reference point. Both devises reading the same load at the same time and get back on the results.

For now I filmed a little video and posted it on Utube. Just testing the meter on my teardrop camper applying a few loads (sub 1 amp)just to give some idea of what its like to work with and its consistency.

Johny,
      I also switched the meter to voltage mode and tested the Imiev battery in charging mode (ignition to run position) Showing voltages and voltage stability under loads. (It's at the end of the video).

Apologies in advance for The Blair Witch Project shaky filming, monotone dialog, repeating myself and generally just not knowing what I am talking about through out the videoImage

Link to video, Enjoy,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLsJiwT900c

Kurt

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Post by CometBoy » Fri, 13 Dec 2013, 13:22

UPADTE: Balance data from this morning.....

Image

So still looking better every week, certainly on its way to becoming well balanced. (Soooo jealous of Kurt's data!)

Looks like the car will be doing around 18,000km per year at the current usage. Given we live out of Australia for 4 to 5 months of the year that would come back to something like 12,000 km per year. So will be a very low mileage EV.

Bruce

Edit: Sorry Kurt missed your post about the clamp meter, will check it out.
Last edited by CometBoy on Fri, 13 Dec 2013, 02:23, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Johny » Fri, 13 Dec 2013, 14:36

offgridQLD wrote:Johny,
      I also switched the meter to voltage mode and tested the Imiev battery in charging mode (ignition to run position) Showing voltages and voltage stability under loads. (It's at the end of the video).
That's great Kurt. I am surprized that they hold the battery at 14.3 odd volts. Standby charge is usually around 13.6V and I have mine set to 13.7 as I thouight that standby better matched the 12V battery usage since the DC-DC are supporting it all the time traction is on.

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Post by acmotor » Fri, 13 Dec 2013, 14:48

That levelling is good to see Bruce. I think. If it matters quite that much ?
offgridQLD wrote: My last fill up I consumed 10.5kw and it took 12.5kw to refill and balance. 81% efficacy plug to battery.

Kurt.


Now I am still pondering this.
If the battery pack voltage is the sum of the cell top voltages (and not the voltage fed to VFD) in the canion data then the kWh consumed is out by a few %, namely the wiring, fuses and contactors etc voltage drop. I say if 'coz Kurt's logged data at say 160A seems too good to be true.
Is the kWh canion's calculation or the iMiEV's CAN data number ?
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Post by Johny » Fri, 13 Dec 2013, 14:56

That voltage drop can't amount to much though. The iMiev wiring is pretty heavy and most power is consumed at reasonably low current.

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Post by CometBoy » Fri, 13 Dec 2013, 16:30

Acmotor, re the pack balancing I think you are right and this makes little difference to anything once it gets to these levels.

Just that Kurt has set such a high standard and I WANT the same!!!

Not that it's a competition.....

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Post by offgridQLD » Mon, 16 Dec 2013, 14:46



With about 225kg of cargo/passengers. It takes 30kw to hold 70 kph up a 12% grade (car loaded up and heavy) It doesn't seem to have to much trouble accelerating more up the hill, well until a struggling ute doing 50kph pulls the pin.

lot of cars struggle on the last stretch of that hill as it really sucks the momentum out . Especially when you get stuck behind a bus or slow car and then have to try accelerating from 40kmh back up to speed under the load of the hill. I find the electrics really shine under this kind of test.

This is after the car has already driven 85km to get to the hill.

Kurt

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Post by Johny » Mon, 16 Dec 2013, 14:58

Gee Kurt I hope you let it idle a while to let those exhaust valves cool down after that throttle-flat-out climb.
Seriously though, it's a gutsy little car. Yours seems to have a very healthy pack.

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Post by offgridQLD » Mon, 16 Dec 2013, 15:06

At the top of the hill You can hold your hand on the motor. It's about as hot as a hot coffee cup. A big + of liquid cooled. I have to ask the Canion app developer to see if he can sniff out the controller temp & motor temp readings and add them to the app. I pulled over and checked motor temps the first time I did that climb. Now I don't bother.

I see A lot of cars at the top with the hoods up, usually automatics that have cooked or cars that don't get taken out of the city much and the owners think a Sunday country drive to the hinterland would be nice. The shortcomings of the car become apparent at the top of the climb. I always feel sorry for the people that have hired old cars for weddings and you se them all dressed up next to a broken down classic.Image

I have towed a tractor/slasher that was about 3 ton and a excavator that was a little more up it and it sure made the ute earn its keep on both occasions.

The little Imiev always surprises me. The guy in the ute had a WTF look on his face as I pulled out overtook him in the tiny little imiev. I made it up that hill and then another 15 or so km to our house total 104km with 22% SOC.

ps, you can see the glare in the dash that others have complained about (only around midday) so I think I front-top window tint strip will fix it.
Kurt
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Post by g4qber » Mon, 16 Dec 2013, 15:23

yes probably good way of imiev letting us know not to charge/drive it at that time.
other mitsu models have hoods on their speedos behind the plastic.

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Post by acmotor » Wed, 18 Dec 2013, 07:52

OK, joined the 21st century with canion and a BT OBD. Can't let you guys have all the fun. Image New toy, just out of the box. Image (S4 screen print)
First snippet is a display of battery status after 10 minutes on 2.2kW charge after a 80km run. Batteries at 34 degC av. SOC 45.5%. This is on my 44,544km battery pack.

Image

So how long before the novelty wears off being able to read the voltages of 88 cells live ? Image
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Post by offgridQLD » Wed, 18 Dec 2013, 14:45

Well the novelty wears off fast but the piece of mind knowing you can check all check all 88 cells when ever you like at home lasts for everImage

Nice balance for a older pack (Not that it's a competition Bruce) Image Perhaps that's because like myself your battery gets a 100% charge on a regular basses.


Do you have one cell group that's hotter than the others (cell group 64) It seems to be common for that cell perhaps there is some radiant heat from something next to its sensor.

Now you will be able to see the difference between soc% and what the 16 bar gauge reads.

keen to see what you make of your reading from it.

Kurt.
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Post by Johny » Wed, 18 Dec 2013, 14:54

It would be interesting to know if they as close as that when low on charge. Nice app. Image

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Post by offgridQLD » Wed, 18 Dec 2013, 15:03

One time and I don't plan on doing it again. I took my battery down to 12.5% SOC (that's just befor the turtle comes on) I had 10mv variation. I see 5mv variation at 22% soc and they are always 0mv 100% level when charged. (remembering that 5mv is the resolution of the gauge) To be honest I don't know if it's worth fussing about. The thing to watch for is stability/consistency . If one cell is a little off then its ok just as long as it doesn't start drifting more and more off over time until its out enough to be a issue.

Kurt
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Post by CometBoy » Wed, 18 Dec 2013, 15:26

Looks great acmotor! And after 44,000 plus Km.....

I'll get there soon (not that it's a competition)

Neat to monitor the regen especially on the later models. Ya you soon get over it but a useful tool to see what's happening.

Bruce

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Post by acmotor » Wed, 18 Dec 2013, 22:47

offgridQLD wrote:
Nice balance for a older pack


who is calling who old ? Image
This pack is only just run in and now getting into full swing Image

it is a far cry from lead acid or thundersags.

Cell temperatures vary from 32 to 38 deg. I'll grab a plot. BTW incoming calls drop the BT link.
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