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Post by Johny » Tue, 27 Aug 2013, 15:51

Kurt - just out of curiosity how accurate is this?
http://www.jurassictest.ch/GR/
Select iMiev then just enter the start address, including Australia. Hit enter then enter in the destination address. Unfortunately you can not change routes.

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Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 27 Aug 2013, 21:27

It's not to bad. The elevation profile looks good to me. The issue is you can only put one speed in. Over my trip the speed is all over the place 50 - 100kph. Putting a average of around 70kph gives similar consumption numbers.

Kurt.

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Post by offgridQLD » Sat, 31 Aug 2013, 19:17

Has anyone noticed recovery of battery pack after resting?

For example you pull up to your house with 5 bars on the SOC meter and come out 1hr later and you have 6 bars.

A resting battery's voltage can spring back some what. I didn't think the gauge was taking voltage into account so much though.

I have noticed it a few times.

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Sat, 31 Aug 2013, 09:18, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by offgridQLD » Sat, 31 Aug 2013, 20:48

We made the trip up the coast again today with a small side adventre to the trip adding about 2km to the trip.

Same results as last time 2 bars on the SOC meter and 9km on the RR gauge but this time the trip was 106km not 104km. I think i kept a more steady flow this time.

This time I weighed all the gear we had in the car.

Image

Most of the small bags had wine bottles in them and the fridge was full. Total weight 62kg

I am around 70kg my wife around 50kg and my daughter around 20kg. So just over 200kg of content all up. For a total loaded car weight of 1280kg.

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Sat, 31 Aug 2013, 11:01, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by acmotor » Sat, 31 Aug 2013, 21:20

Did you allow for a full tank of fuel ? Image

It is good that you are noting all the weight and POB.

Have you put a battery charger on the imax ? the battery will have gone flat if you ever get to use it again.

I still find that a head wind has the biggest affect on energy consumption. I'd like to fit an air speed indicator !
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Post by offgridQLD » Sat, 31 Aug 2013, 21:48

Well I wasn't sure If the 1080kg for the Imiev included one average persons weight. As sometimes it dose.I will have to take the Imiev to the rubbish dump next time its free green wast with a stick in the back. Just to get it weighed for free with me in itImage.


Image Its true The Dmax just sits around all week though it has always done that. It has a 200ah agm in the tray to start it if the cranking battery sits idle to long. We purchased the dmax just for towing, carrying long things on top and for our long distance camping trips around Australia.So 90% of its use is leisure.

We hope the fact that it only gets used for long trips. Usually 1000km + last one was over 10,000 and another 5000km trip at Xmass.We hope that the Diesel will last a long time. They tend not to like lots of short trips and idling. Given that its a 4wd, over 2 ton and shaped like a brick its 7.5 - 8lt- 100km consumption is ok.

Our old runabout 2.2lt 4cyl is online now for sale Image It really has no use at all.

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Sat, 31 Aug 2013, 13:50, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by acmotor » Sat, 31 Aug 2013, 23:00

Dmax ? I was calling it the imax. Image

Yep, a diesel 4x4 utility vehicle is the item to complete the transport equation !
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Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 03 Sep 2013, 20:48

I was reading another Imiev forum and found the following section of a post interesting.

Quoate: I do charge with a 12 KW charger directly into the traction battery by making a connection at the inverter where the pack cables enter. I have a 175 amp anderson connector mounted on the car to connect the charger which is a Manzanita Micro PFC-50B. To do this, you must place the car in the "ready" mode to get the HV contactors to close. As far as the car is concerned, you are driving down a steep incline and are in the regen mode. You won't see it on the dash display as the car would normally be in park, however if you move it into any drive position, you can see the display move almost half way into full regen---12 KW is delivering about 32 amps back to the traction battery. Even at that level you are only charging at less then 1C rate. When in park, the BMU is accurately recording "KW in" so the SOC indicator is working correctly. An additional benefit to this method is with the car in the "ready" mode, you can use the vehicle A/C to provide cold air into the pack (if your car has the battery warmer or QC option) during charging. The only downside to this is that I don't believe the battery balancers can work until there is a lower current input. When you charge normally, the charger current falls off and (I am again guessing) the balancers are switched on. The balancers can't shunt high currents, therefore can't operate at high charge levels. I also think that's why QC charging terminates at 80% or so. I never charge above 80% (voltage limited) with the 12 KW charger. I will only do this a couple of times before I do a full charge with the vehicle charger to allow balancing. I haven't had any problems to date. I you want to charge off a solar system and have a voltage regulator on it set so you cannot exceed a specified voltage---say 355 or so--then you could use this method. Just make sure that you balance the pack once in a while. Many people who don't charge to 100% aren't balancing and don't even know it.

I'm not sure how to put that info to use and I guess its nothing new But just the fact that as far as the car is concerned its just receiving Regen charge and is happy to do so is interesting.For bulk charging without having to go through all the handshaking business of the fast charging port or through the stock charger.

Kurt

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Post by Tritium_James » Tue, 03 Sep 2013, 22:46

Kurt,

Look for that guy to have a post in a couple of months where his car burnt his house down because he forgot to turn it off / the charger had a fault / etc etc. Charging in any way where the vehicle's BMS doesn't have control over the process is incredibly dangerous.

Yes, he's thought through the various nasties, but it only takes one screwup and the car is toast - he's bypassed several redundant safety systems.

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Post by acmotor » Tue, 03 Sep 2013, 23:06

OK, yes can be done with care, keeping an eye on the SOC.
Half regen is 8kW anyway.

But.......... Instant warranty voiding !!
And an Anderson is not IP67 or so that the original wiring / cable glands would have been. Once it is cut into and an Anderson added... Warranty gone, IP rating gone. Potential battery damage coming up if you don't pay attention.

And then why would you go that uncleaver way of connection when the i has a CHAdeMO connector !!!!!!! i.e approved and monitored and massively safer way to DC charge. (does that mean the i in question is without a CHAdeMO connector ?)

Just hang with the L2 AC 3.3kW charging until an opensource CHAdeMO hits the web !
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Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 03 Sep 2013, 23:35

Would be nice to see a photo to see what he had done. Spicing the cables dose sound like a nasty way to go about it. Unless he has opend up the controller and taped in there.Was unclear from his post. I don't like Anderson connecters at the best of times.

I would say that he was in the US and didn't have the fast charging port option.

Yes I was thinking the Regen gauge is 16kw.

I don't think his issue is over charging if the voltage is set low enough its not all human intervention. Though I agree is is taking out some of the redundancy and safety features. That said its safe for energy to pass through the same wires from the motor,controller and then battery under Regen.(as in how would the car differentiate between power from his charger and power from regen braking?) Are you saying that the pack is being charged in a unsafe out of control way during regen braking?

I would say he isn't bypassing all the safety features of the BMS just isn't utilizing the top balancing feature as he isn't getting there due to his low voltage settings on the charger.

I have been guilty of charging (much smaller ) lithium battery's (in the shed) without any BMS from a old PV charge controller for years without any issues with conservative settings.

Not saying I would do the same with my I.


Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Tue, 03 Sep 2013, 13:51, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by acmotor » Wed, 04 Sep 2013, 01:19

offgridQLD wrote: ....
Not saying I would do the same with my I.

Kurt
Wise man.
I think my warranty is more important to me than backyard DC charging. It is not as if I actually need it. Been there, done that with my conversion.

Apart from the poor IP rating of Andersons, there is a potential for in-rush to the charger caps if it was off when the Anderson was inserted. Well one would expect it to be so you weren't handling a live Anderson at 330V+.
The other big BMS factor is that the BMS has no less than 2 comms busses (CAN + Kline) to the MCU and ECU so it can control the regen as it often has to (>80% charge and any significant regen).

All this battery/charge management is part of CHAdeMO and with the safety smarts of no connect/break under current and no handling live connectors etc.

Voltage limited charging of lithiums without a BMS and the charger's ability to respond to a BMS is really just 'get away with it stuff'. I too admit to 12V non BMS charging, but that is not 330V !
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Post by offgridQLD » Wed, 04 Sep 2013, 14:04

There is a potential for in-rush to the charger caps if it was off when the Anderson was inserted. Well one would expect it to be so you weren't handling a live Anderson at 330V+.

I have to look in to a way to precharge the caps on my electric recumbent trike's Motor controller. It creates a nice snap/Arc when you plug the 60v lithium cobalt pack into it Image For now I have a big box plugs and swap them out periodically Image Perhaps a pre-charge resistor to slow the flow down a little.

Kurt

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Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 17 Sep 2013, 15:34

Stereo upgrade and OBD visual interface all in one.

I am keen to have a play with a little android app called Canion

]https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... nion&hl=en


Plugging a OBD-II Bluetooth-Adapter into the imiev and running the app on a android device gives you a lot of detailed info on the traction pack and a host of other parameters. Along with some handy bling tools to use to log your trips and charging.

My imiev has the taxi pack basic stereo and I wasn't keen on paying another $2000 for the factory gps/stereo system. My thinking is there is a lot of android based double din car stereos on the market now. Perhaps avoiding the real nasty ebay jobs but this one looks ok for around $600 http://e3io.com/parrot-asteroid-car-pc though there could be other better options around and I will have to make sure they are running the correct android operating system and are compatible with the BT adapter and app. I Zero experience with android devises.

My thinking is opting for the android based double din stereo would keep things nice and clean and integrated in the one package. Rather than having a android tablet stuck to your windshield.

Potentially for well under $1000 including the free app, blue tooth interface and android stereo. We could have similar fancy detailed driver assessable visual data like the say the Nissan leaf has.

Anyone used the Canion app?

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Tue, 17 Sep 2013, 05:49, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by offgridQLD » Fri, 20 Sep 2013, 19:28

After doing some more research on the android based double din head units. I came to the conclusion most of what is on offer via ebay is rubbish and just don't have the processing speed or screen resolution I need to run the Canlon app.


Plan B... Use a android tablet and custom mount it in the double din location. The 7 inch Nexus 7 has been used before in a similar insulation in ICE powered cars with success. After purchasing the V2 Nexus 7 tablet I can see why.Its a perfect fit for the stock double din enclosure of the Imiev. It wont take much work at all to get it installed and looking factory. The tablets almost to good to put in the car but the screen is razor sharp 1920×1200 resolution and bright. having a quad core possessor helps running multiple apps without getting bogged down. At just over $300 is not bad considering the specs, functionality and price over a typical car head unit with a screen.

I installed the Imiev Canlon program in the tablet and it looks great. Just have to order the OBD blue tooth scanner and it will be up and running. I will need to work on a inline audio amp to power the speakers in the car. I have a few options, headphone jack direct (I don't like this) or headphone jack to RCA (again not real good) Third option is a blue tooth capable 4 Chanel car amp and if one isn't available a will create one one way or another. 4th option is no use a single din bluetooth enabled stereo in the location in front of the gearshift lever and relocate the keyed switch that turns the passenger and airbag on or off and the two warning light that's in the single din dummy panel there.

Powering on and off the tablet needs a little bit of work but with the help of some free task apps and a modified 12v usb charger I should be able to get it behaving on and off with the imiev's ignition key.

A non glare screen film is another thing to add. The stock imiev location isn't to bad as it is set back some and the shroud extends over the sides and edges to shade it somewhat.

Functions I want the unit to have.

* Run Canlon ABD display app
* Music via MP3, Internet radio, Pandora
* Video, All digital formats
* Internet , basic email, forums, utube
* Reversing cam
* Hands free phone
* More than likely a host of other apps that might be handy in the car that can be added later on.

pics to come...

Image


Image


Kurt






Last edited by offgridQLD on Fri, 20 Sep 2013, 10:10, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by acmotor » Sat, 21 Sep 2013, 07:03

Sounds interesting, I think....

Factory NAV (Eclipse AVN726EA) has..
AM/FM radio (I use)
CD/DVD player video and music (I don't use)
SD card support (I don't use)
USB for MP3/MP4 via thumb drives / phone charging (I use both)
Bluetooth handsfree (I use)
Integrated connection through vehicle harness to lights/reverse/brakes/steering (dims screen, activates revering camera etc.)
Connectors and support for (though have to add yourself) reversing cam. (I have done)
NAV with TMC traffic updates live via FM radio.
...and for the anti technojunkie and fiddler.... a mode where touch screen is disabled while driving so you can't be distracted playing with the toy on the dashboard ! (OK, I don't use that feature Image )

Downside... price and ...
No support for Android/CE apps. (that I know of)
No Internet. (you will need a 3G account ?) just use your mobile 'phone.
Map updates cost.

Your tablet option is interesting if you can integrate it to the vehicle.
Re the app.... Volts and Amps and Wh/km are the only new items ?? Volts are stable so Amps trend same as power trend and you already have an analogue power meter (much easier to read than a small digital number).
Wh/km may be interesting, perhaps as a graph vs time ?

Mitsubishi standard OBD II scanner does not work with iMiEV (tried it) So is the one you are talking about different ??? Is it a MUT II ?

Image
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Post by offgridQLD » Sat, 21 Sep 2013, 15:43

There is more to the app than just showing amps and voltage.It can show you individual cell voltage for all 88 cells, A real time wattage consumption gauge (as in turn the lights or AC on and it shows the consumption in watts) So you know whats going in and out in more detail. The best part is the Logging of all data. Cycles and DOD along with Regen logging and a lot more.You will know where your at in SOC down to a 1% or 160whr resolution not 1kwh resolution that the 16 dash bars gives you.

I like the Imeve simple dash for everyday driving its great but I want all the other info to. I think its very handy to know whats going on and where things are going as the battery gets older. More as a service and logging tool than a dash display.

Have a good look at the link for all the features of the app.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... nion&hl=en

As for the Bluetooth obd scanner there are only two i know of that work

http://batman.homelinux.com/blog/stn117 ... i-adapter/

This is the one I purchased from the US should have it next week
http://www.scantool.net/obdlink-mx.html
Last edited by offgridQLD on Sat, 21 Sep 2013, 06:06, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by g4qber » Sat, 21 Sep 2013, 16:30

any suggestions to shroud the speedo from noon day sun reflection?

this reflection hasn't affected me much cos I don't drive at noon.
I tend to come out at night :D

"1. can't see speedo in noonday sun
viewtopic.php?title=the-imiev-experience&t=3031

in the past I use a nexus 7 to play movies and I rest it on the ledge in front of the sat nav.
i use the bluetooth audio streaming for sound as the nexus 7 has rather paltry speakers when compared with an iPad2
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Post by acmotor » Sat, 21 Sep 2013, 17:41

Ah OK, this app sounds interesting ! Image
Sort of Leaf like info overload but more so !
Keep us informed re the Bluetooth obd scanner. I guess it will also work with an android 'phone ?

Note. typical programmers.... NaN% .... if it is not a number then don't display anything !! Image
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Post by offgridQLD » Sat, 21 Sep 2013, 17:52

Yes it will work with a android phone. You need bluetooth and a reasonably good processor speed. I think it would work on most phones and tablets but perhaps not on a real old one or a cheap and nasty $69 phone or tablet.

Yes its more info than you need while diving. That said I don't like being blind to whats going on. Its the same with my offgrid system 99% of the time I don't need all the info but at times when I do its very useful.

As for the stock speedo getting washed out with the sun.I guess some kind of very dark window shade that you could suction cup to the window that the sun is coming in through. easy and cheap. Not sure if its legal to tint the dash screen and a shroud might look tacky.

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Sat, 21 Sep 2013, 07:56, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by acmotor » Sat, 21 Sep 2013, 18:23

So this obd is scan only ? It can't read speed, run PID and simulate accel pedal on CAN bus to be a cruise control ??? Now that would be useful.

Re imiev handling. Try following one in tight driving.... you'd be suprised just how quick it is ! Don't be mislead by the lack of noise.
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Post by offgridQLD » Sat, 21 Sep 2013, 18:50

to be honest I am not really up on all the obd tools side of things. I have never used one. It can read speed though and clear Fault codes. So it must have some kind of two way interaction.How limited it is i don't know. I'm not the best person to ask.

I did have my wife follow me once in the imiev. I was driving our sedan before we sold it. I kept having to slow down and drive like a grandma to keep her in the rear view mirror. Especially at traffic lights. I was tempted to call her on the phone and explain how to use the accelerator pedal[LOL. Could be her driving or could be the car. The cornering limit on the sedan was limited by how silly you wanted to be and how big a fine you wanted to get on a public road. With the imive its self limited by grip. Though the sedan did have full independent suspension and 205/50/16 grippy Toyo wheels and the advantage of a torque converter at the lights.

Again handling and performance is all relative. My daily driver for many years was a highly modified and lightened -750kg 1984 civic with around 200hp.Competitive Autocross, hill climb car.
nothing a set of R1 superbike carbs cant fix Image
Image

Stepping out of our diesel ute or say a something like clapped out 3 speed automatic Camry the Imiev will feel zippy and handle well.

Don't get me wrong I love the I and I like the way its a very relaxed drive, quiet,smooth and all that jazz.

Kurt   
Last edited by offgridQLD on Sat, 21 Sep 2013, 09:21, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by acmotor » Sat, 21 Sep 2013, 20:16

Yep, all realtive !

It will be good if some of those modified dino juice burners are preserved in museums for future generations to gaze quizically at. Image
It is a particularly good thing when a petrol head goes electric ! Image
...and yes, the iMiEV is kinda one extreme to the other.... with a pleasant outcome as you point out.

'my dad used to drive one of those old technology fossil fuel burners' will be the comment of future generations. Image
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Post by offgridQLD » Wed, 09 Oct 2013, 02:14

Just made a small video of the free android OBD app showing data from the Imiev.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... fMbQ6MpSsE

Kurt

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Post by Johny » Wed, 09 Oct 2013, 14:11

What a leap of information for the iMiev. It looks like a great app Kurt. Nice installation too!

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