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offgridQLD
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Post by offgridQLD » Sun, 25 May 2014, 01:41

I took a few quick pics of the I Miev early this morning near our house I was starting out on a 94km round trip from the sunshine coast hinterland to Caloundra and back again for today's ev display.

The sun was just coming up looking over misty valley. Glass house mountains behind.

I made it there and back again along with a short test drive during the day on the one charge with 35% SOC remaining driving at the posted speed limits.



Image
<img

Image

kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Sat, 24 May 2014, 16:24, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Malm » Sun, 25 May 2014, 03:05

That's an i-MiEV, right? What a great car. Most of the humans can't see how fantastic it is. And Mitsubishi surely know how to not sell a lot. In France, I think i can get one for the right price, with something like 5.000 km. Around 13.000/14.000 aussie dollars. Payed in 4 or 5 years with gas savings. I´m the nº1 fan of that car.

Well, I think I can handle two of them Image.

Forget the 20% degradation, with one 100% charge it used 15,28 kWh, but I tried a second charge, and for my surprise, toked more 0,51 kWh. 15,8 kWh in total, that's not 20% degradation, for sure.
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Post by offgridQLD » Sun, 25 May 2014, 04:04

"Most of the humans can't see how fantastic it is"

Yes, dam humans Image

Correct it's a 2012 Mitsubishi Imiev.

I'm sure the battery will degrade over time (all battery do)

I will just see how I go with my example. I can only try my best to look after the battery and give it a easy life. That way I am not to blame for its longevity as I have done all I can within practical limits.

Time will tell in the end if I find it acceptable or not over the years and many miles. For now I am just enjoying the car.

I agree it's a very simple little car but the more I live with it the more I have grown to like it's simplicity. Its fun to drive.

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Sat, 24 May 2014, 18:08, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by acmotor » Sun, 25 May 2014, 19:13

Nice pics Kurt. Image

I think one sweet spot for BEV at present is the users that drive basically a full charge in one trip (and are lucky that there is a match between trip and range). This is probably one value for money end of the scale. Fuel savings alone are quite significant. Minimal use and long life being perhaps another value point.

As a result though, I almost only ever charge to 100% , and from between one and 5 bars. That charge level sits there for between 0 and 5 hours. Typically 3 hours so full charge exists for 1/8 of the battery pack's life. I don't think there is much chance of reducing that so I hope that sort of full charge time is part of mitsubishi's design life.
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Post by offgridQLD » Mon, 26 May 2014, 02:30

It worked out that over the past 4 days I have driven the Imiev over 400km. two days slightly under 100km and two days slightly over. All from one charge each day and all recovered from off grid solar.

Actually I tell a lie. I topped up two bars roughly 2kwh today at the ev display but wasn't necessary just it was there so I thought why not. I more than made up for that 2kwh help with how enthusiastically I drove back up into the hinterland and AC on .

It was just a good prove of real world longer distance driving demands 100km trip each day several consecutive days in a row and recover it from battery stored off grid PV. The Aim was to be able to cover a full 16kwh EV charge each day + house loads.

Typically 30 to 50km a day would be our needs with the odd 80 - 100km trip thrown in perhaps once a week.

Kurt



Last edited by offgridQLD on Sun, 25 May 2014, 16:32, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Malm » Mon, 26 May 2014, 07:58

Me, some days I drive 5 km, other days something like 600 km. Lisbon is 5 hours from my house with two quick charges, Oporto I can go there with one charge, so I travel almost to all of the country with it. With free energy everywhere.
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Post by offgridQLD » Mon, 26 May 2014, 13:55

Unfortunately in QLD Australia there isn't a charging infrastructure worth noting a few random 15A power outlets no fast chargers.

So your limited to the range of one charge just over 100km or 200km return if you have a charger at your destination. I drive between two homes 104 km apart. This gives me some spread along the coast.

Though I don't find I need to travel anymore on a regular basis. My long trips are usually 2500km up to 10,000km and 600 - 1000km traveled each day so my ICE vehicle is used for them.

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Post by carnut1100 » Mon, 26 May 2014, 15:11

Only time I use ice now is when I need to tow a trailer or need a Ute. Then the hilux comes out.
Mine has done 11,500km in seven months.
My partner's one does almost 100km a day.
Between us we have saved over $3,500 so far, I have had mine seven months and hers five months.
The savings add up!

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Post by acmotor » Mon, 26 May 2014, 20:38

Ah, fast charges via CHAdeMO enabling long trips. That would be nice to try but with my nearest FC 2700km away that first step is a doosey.
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Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 27 May 2014, 02:09

Just popped out to the supermarket. Boy I wouldn't want to be driving a car that demanded premium unleaded! Say a high performance turbo that allready drinks fuel Image

Diesel seems to be more stable over the month and doesn't really have a cycle.

174.9!Image

Image

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Last edited by offgridQLD on Mon, 26 May 2014, 16:14, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Rodney » Tue, 27 May 2014, 02:45

Hi, it has been a while since I have been on this forum. However just letting people from Adelaide know that I have finally bought an i MiEV. I have had it for a week and done around 300Km already.
Rod.
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Post by Malm » Tue, 27 May 2014, 05:00

Congratulations. Try to keep it not to hot. In Australia, that's not easy to achieve, but not impossible. Look at mine, 12:00 in Portugal, one mouth to summer and:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9rt0y7v445z97 ... 120716.png

Portugal and Australia have a similar climate, that's why i'm here, i feel at home and I understand everything you say about the car.
Last edited by Malm on Mon, 26 May 2014, 19:01, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by offgridQLD » Mon, 11 Aug 2014, 16:50

acmotor wrote: The lights at night consumption doesn't add up I agree. Perhaps the cooler temperature at night has an effect too. Cooler batteries, denser air something but the night time difference is real in my experience.

Re battery info... I think this is all on the CAN bus anyway so just access that ? I agree though that the mitsi concept of 'you just don't need to know' is actually very good !

Ah yes, I put my e-jerry can in to boot on long runs....

<img src="uploads/24/ejerrycan2.JPG" />

Never actually used it but often put the power into the i at home to avoid drawing mains at peak power times.

I originally tried a 2500W inverter but it was only good for 1800W continuous so went to the 5000W unit. It supplies up to 3500W continuous. (usual over claim by manufacturers). The standard 10A (2.2kW) EVSE is fine and the inverter also works with 3.3kW EVSE that I have.
The 2.2kW EVSE takes around 50 minutes to transfer 12V battery energy to the i.

The capacity is 160Ah LiFePO4 x 3.2V x 4 = 2.048kW and measuring the power out to i with arlec power meter I get around 1.8kWh to inverter shutdown. Inverter is around 90% eff.
You need to ground the Neutral pin to earth pin at inverter so the EVSE OKs the power feed. (The EVSE contains earth leakage protection shutdown that tests for earth connection of neutral.)

This inverter is pure sine and heavier and more expensive than modified sine inverters. The latter may work as well since the i just rectifies the mains that comes in... however there is a pf correction circuit etc that may not appreciate the harmonics in the more square wave power ?

I recharge off any (regulated) 12V battery charger via the 50A anderson. edit:just out of sight, top RHS of cells.
The BMS shunts at 3.45vpc (13.8V). The inverter shuts down at 10.5V (2.6vpc) and the BMS just sounds the buzzer if a cell goes below 2.5V, but that doesn't happen. 12V arrangements are quite friendly for lithium cells.

DC drain is around 200A so just over 1C on the batteries.
The wiring (2x50sq) is an overkill as are the 350A andersons. This setup was left over from my 12V EV blue gemini experiment.
<a href="viewtopic.php?p=37348&t=3101&title=12vo ... ers#p37348" rel="nofollow">gemini</a>

Needs boxing up neatly... but maybe I'll go for 4kWh in the future ?

Image
edit:cyplin

Acmotor,
        The 65kg 200ah agm (2nd/duel battery system)in the back of my ute is finally toast. I need to replace it. So I got thinking there is no way I am going to replace it with lead again. So I am looking at perhaps a 180AH or 400Ah calb lifpo4 cells for a 12v replacement. I'm going to be using calb 400Ah cells on my house in the future so having a few extra on hand could be a good option.

That said I already have a 48v 3600w continuous duty pure sine UPS (yes its a commercial one designed for continuous use with large battery's and had large rear Anderson connections) so that in mind perhaps if it was pure E jerry can 48v with 100AH cells would be better (no good for the ute though) about $2500 though for 4.5kwh or so. 52kg though + heavy inverter would be 25kg+ so 75kg its like another adult in the car. I think the UPS is nice that I have it but a little heavy - bulky for the task

Perhaps there is a sweet spot for weight vs capacity gain. Personally I don't have a real need for 4.5kw though you never know. I'm more likely to just use it as my Imiev pack starts to degrade and the trips I do now that leave me with 15 - 22% SOC at the end. start to get to risky. One bar is roughly 1kw AC so perhaps 180 AH cells and gaining 2 bars is the sweet spot for me.

Though I'm the 4x400Ah calbs as 12v would tick all the boxes.400ah is good as Spare cells of the same capacity for house to get me out of a pinch. Good size capacity for the ute camping battery and compatible voltage. (they will see most of there use in the ute)...though a tad bulky for the Imiev at 56kg.

I have some pondering to do Image

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Post by bga » Mon, 11 Aug 2014, 17:47

Hi Kurt,
A solution may be to make the battery from 160 or 200AH cells, these are more compatible with the i-miev's size and carrying capacity. They won't mind being paralleled, although some fuses may be wise between the strings.

Cheers
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Post by offgridQLD » Mon, 11 Aug 2014, 18:01

Yes 180A is the option in the grey calbs. The main reason for the 400Ah is they would be A identical cell to the ones I will be using on my offgrid house ( when the flooded lead acid is finally toast) so having 4 identical spares to rob if one of the 16x 400Ah house cells went bad would be a handy backup.

+ 400Ah in lithium is one hell of a nice camping battery. we do a lot of camping where we run dual fridges charged and lots of other loads.

the dimensions aren't really a issue for 4x 400ah's

400Ah - 71 x 450 x 283mm and 14kg each.      

so a 12v brick of 4 cells would be 280mm wide x 450mm long by 283mm height. That would fit behind the back seat ok. But 53kg about 3kg more than my wife in the back seat not to bad.

I might mock up a ply box with the same dimensions and load it with 50kg of (what ever)and see how it feels in the back of the Imiev. I could use the two child restraint hooks to lash it down.

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Mon, 11 Aug 2014, 08:03, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by bga » Tue, 12 Aug 2014, 17:28

I was concerned about the lifting weight, 50kg is a bit heavy to manhandle in and out. My thought was two (or 3) battery boxes with Anderson connectors, docking into a frame.

A couple of bags of cement would about do it for weight.

It would make sense to use the child restraints, possibly in the form of a metal frame and/or box with mounting holes to match?

400AH@13.2V = 5280WH =~ additional 40km

Cheers

PS Like the pics of the i-miev in the wild!
Last edited by bga on Tue, 12 Aug 2014, 07:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by EV2Go » Tue, 12 Aug 2014, 18:41

offgridQLD wrote: Just popped out to the supermarket. Boy I wouldn't want to be driving a car that demanded premium unleaded! Say a high performance turbo that allready drinks fuel Image

Diesel seems to be more stable over the month and doesn't really have a cycle.

174.9!Image

<img src="https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3669/142 ... 2105_o.jpg" />

Kurt


Yes and that is only 95 not 98, my bike wont run on 95 without pinging :(

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Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 12 Aug 2014, 20:02

bga,
     Yes I see your point. While 50kg is not to bad a task every now and then. The battery would spent most of the time in the Ute. So when needed in the Imiev. I would be sliding it from the tail gate of my ute directly into the trunk of the Imiev. The floor is flat entrance (no lip) and high in the imiev. I will back the imiev up to the back of the Ute on the weekend and see how the two levels play out.I'm sure with some head scratching and time in the work shop I could built something to take all the human effort out of it.Though I just want to keep it simple.

Another option is just to spit the pack into two 25kg (2 cell bricks) with a large plug. that way I could have them side by side along the back of the seat. They are 450mm wide so 900mm width (don't have the car on me at the moment but I'm sure there is 900mm width to play with behind the seat. Then they would only be 142mm deep. Giving me some space behind them.

The same layout would work well in the ute to as I wouldn't loose so much tray depth having them the side by side.

As for the 400AH capacity I would say without working them to hard 4kwhr AC from them or roughly 4 bars replenished on the Imiev 16 bar fuel gauge 25% SOC potential gain.Based on 4000whr /135whr (average wall plug to wheel consumption = 30km extension.

About the expensive 95 - 98 fuel. Im so over petrol and diesel cars. they are inferior in every way. Just energy density ...long range, when you need it is there only advantage.Lucky 99% I don't need it. Never purchasing a dinosaur juice car again in my life.

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Tue, 12 Aug 2014, 10:12, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by bga » Wed, 13 Aug 2014, 01:50

The (no-so-squeezy) i-miev is definitely a far better drive than any of the ICE cars I use regularly. The only reason I keep the VZ station wagon is that it is good for trips and carrying big and heavy stuff, sort of like a covered ute.

I think that Tuarn was considering the idea of frauding the CHAdeMO port so that a bent sine wave inverter could be used to charge the battery directly without the i-miev charger.
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Post by acmotor » Wed, 13 Aug 2014, 03:31

The main holdup is a CHAdeMo plug.
Anyone got one laying around in their shed ??
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Post by 7circle » Wed, 13 Aug 2014, 06:52

@acMoter : 3D Printing would be good if you could trust the longterm insulation of the Voltages passing through the CHAdeMo pins.

Hi Kurt,

Was pondering the choice between:
4S:400Ah or 16S:100Ah or 4P4S100Ah

As you have a 48V/240vac sinewave inverter and your offGRID gear is 48V being able to have a 48V/100Ah Pack will let you use or test this gear.

It could live in parallel with the big pack as an option too.
It just needs an auto connect precharge/balance circuit.

You could run your Etrike or eBikes with a trailer pretty far off this pack too.

You can still configure the cells for 12V or a 4P 3.2V/400Ah to patch the offgrid bank.
I take it you have a powerful 12V/240Vac inverter for the 4WD when camping too, so you may not be needing to buy 12V/240vac inverter.

I was thinking that if 400Ah cells in the offgrid bank fail, you would likely use the extra cells as a temporary fix until you get a knew replacement. You would still want your portable pack for camping.

The 400Ah cells just seem to bulky to be portable. And best to not have cells sitting idle. Shelf life is always a depreciating effect.

Buying 20 x 400Ahr cells or 16 x 400Ah + 16 x 100Ah appears to be about the same price and weight.

Are they much cheaper than 0.70 $/Whr so $3.5K + inverter for 30km extender. You want to get value out of that.

Would be good as a low power hybrid pack for your 4WD, like the Freelander and many new cars have on the Alternator Controller.
or use the i as a pusher trailer .... but I digress. Image

7c

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Post by offgridQLD » Wed, 13 Aug 2014, 15:15

7c,
   thanks for your thoughts. Yes my offgrid gear is all 48v(though has to stay with the house the inverter alone is over 80kg monster Image )

The commercial UPS that I have its a bit of a tank to from memory its about 30kg could be a bit less. It two huge iron transformers in it and it's a bit of pig at idle about 175w idle consumption (though it seems to fluctuate up and down from about 20w - 175w so might be something I can modify on it to lower the idle consumption.Though the efficiency is fine for recharging the car as its only on for 1hr but no good as a camping inverter) So UPS although I have it already might not be the best road to steer down.

a lot of bulk could be cut out of the ups but its still heavy (large Anderson at the back) I was just testing it in the pic when i first got it and all I had laying around was 5Ah of 12S lipo. Plugged it into the small front Anderson and boiled the kettle then ran a blow heater for a while. Haven't touched the thing after that
Image


All my camping gear is 12v (was one 200AH AGM in the ute (now toast) and one 110ah AGM in the camper (still ok) with 240w of pv. I don't have a 12v inverter yet for the camper/ute package. So my thinking is perhaps purchasing a 12v inverter isn't a bad option as it would come in very handy for 240v power in the Ute and camper (as that's where the battery will stay 95% of the time)

The point of having extra 400AH cells that are very similar age and same size spec as the 16 x 400ah in the house bank. Is as a backup replacement cell they would tie into the bank well being similar age - batch. If the same cell are still available in the future I could just purchase a replacement but my thinking was adding a new cell to a old bank doesn't always work well. Though more than likely I wont have any need to rob cells any go through all that. Just trying to cover all bases.

My programmable charge controllers have the ability to switch between two banks . As in charge the house bank then change the small bank so that would be handy. Though the small bank would have to be in 48v config to do so. So that's one win for the 48v config option.Though it wouldn't tie into the camper/ute setup as easy.

I really don't think 4x400AH cells is that big for the Imiev. We carry a 40lt engel camping frige behind the back seat often and that's way bigger than 4x400ah Calbs and 2/3 as heavy. 4x400ah calbs are no bigger than say 1/2 a small microwave.

More pondering ...48v has some advantages ....perhapsImage

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Post by offgridQLD » Wed, 20 Aug 2014, 16:20

ACmotor,
        Im interested to know the weight of that 12v inverter your using on your E jerrycan setup... I'm guessing 15kg?

I had a play with the old 48v APC 3000 (2700w continuous) UPS on the weekend and it charges the imiev fine (94% efficiency at full load) but its Dam heavy. I could make it smaller by dimensions by trimming the case down but the two transformers in it make it one heavy beast.

I usually hate 12v when it comes to powerful inverters but the simplicity of 4 cells (less cell top balances and less expense in the BMS) along with it agreeing with my cars and camper vans pv & alternator voltage has me thinking 12v is the way to go for this E Jerry can / camping power pack.

I mocked up a cardboard box with the dimensions of 4x 400Ah Calb cells and it's not even 1/2 the boot floor space as a square block behind the rear seat. Though as a two x two side by side arrangement along the back of the rear seat is the a less intrusive layout. That would split the pack into two 25kg blocks. Not a big deal (all up about the same weight as two 7yo kids) Using the child restraint hooks they should be rated to hold at least 25kg each in a crash.

Kurt




Last edited by offgridQLD on Wed, 20 Aug 2014, 06:24, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by acmotor » Thu, 21 Aug 2014, 03:08

Just weighed the 5000W 12V inverter......   8.7 kg.    high frequency conversion with pure sine output.

My tests show it will only supply 3500W continuous but that covers the i at full 13A charge via the Charge-Amps EVSE.
Measuring input current and voltage vs output power on the Arlec power meter suggests 93.2% efficiency under load.

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Post by offgridQLD » Thu, 21 Aug 2014, 05:33

Thanks for that Acmotor. That confirms my thinking the Ups is a tank.

This is one time when a lightweight made in China product could have its advantages.

I will look into one (was it a eBay job?)

Kurt

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