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offgridQLD
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Post by offgridQLD » Sat, 08 Feb 2014, 04:49

"That Dunedin road is 35deg and only second to one in the US at 37deg so some googling says, but who is counting ? The steepest in Perth is probably 18deg and short (Mount St) so not much of a test. What is the angle on that Paddington road ? 25deg ?
Some vid of an i hill start and accelerate up would be interesting Kurt.
"

It's that last 15m or so on that Dunedin road where it gets steeper that you really feel it. Well in a 2.8 ton camper-van anyhow the pots and pans start to move around in the back Image

I'm not sure what the one is in Paddington QLD its only short 50m or so but its steep. It was 5 years ago when I drove the Dunedin road but thinking back in comparison I would say the one in Paddington would be 28% at a guess not sure. I will take my Iphone and test it on Sunday its only 3km up the road.

I am just uploading the video to Utube now though it dons't look as steep in the video as real life.I will link to it when its ready.

Link to utube video street in Paddington QLD.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArGxaUw2oFc

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Fri, 07 Feb 2014, 18:26, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by acmotor » Sat, 08 Feb 2014, 06:23

That puts us in Perth in the flat earth society. Image
Do you have the canon log to go with it Kurt ?
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offgridQLD
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Post by offgridQLD » Fri, 14 Feb 2014, 15:28

I noticed this Imiev that was displayed at a motor-show of some kind.It came up when doing a search for 2014 Imiev.

I like the mag wheel/tyre combination really fills the guards. That or its been lowered or a combination of both. Rear view mirrors look different to.

Image[/IMG]

comparing the above Imiev to a stock Imiev below. It looks like the one above used at a show has a body kit. Look at the arch over the wheels in comparison to stock.
Image
Last edited by offgridQLD on Fri, 14 Feb 2014, 04:45, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by acmotor » Fri, 14 Feb 2014, 17:30

Two tone spoiler zones, modified wheel arch, wing indicators moved to rear vision mirrors, antenna broke off, keeless entry version. The ride is probably lower with the 32kWh battery pack. Image

So where was this displayed ??
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offgridQLD
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Post by offgridQLD » Fri, 14 Feb 2014, 17:53

Some motor show in the US I think.

Kurt
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Post by adelaide-ev » Fri, 14 Feb 2014, 17:56

acmotor wrote: The ride is probably lower with the 32kWh battery pack.


Yes please....and a 6.6kW on board charger. Image

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offgridQLD
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Post by offgridQLD » Fri, 14 Feb 2014, 18:32

Just looking at my own Imiev. Steering wheel turned full lock to the left. You only have enough space to slide your little finger between the outside of the wheel and the front of the inner guard on the front of the right wheel. The plastic part that covers the back of the driving/fog light protrudes out into the wheel arch.

So as it is you couldn't increase the rolling dia of the wheel/tyre package more than a few mm if you don't want things to rub at full lock. That or remove that section of the inner guard. (it is a separate small section that can be removed individually).

I wouldn't want to increase the rolling dia of the wheels on the Imiev as I feel its over geared as it is being a single speed transmission. Take off (in the first few meters) would become even more sluggish.

Often the cars used at motor shows are not fully functional but look cool to attract people to the car. Like a hamburger from M never looks like the picture Image

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Post by jonescg » Fri, 14 Feb 2014, 18:52

Hey Kurt,
Did you work out your average Wh/km for 100 km/h?
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Post by offgridQLD » Fri, 14 Feb 2014, 20:20

No I haven't yet last week I didn't log my trip home I will try and remember this Sunday to log the trip as separate log. (Just set a reminder on my phone so i remember)

It's 38.8km all up on the freeway from entry point to exit at 100kph. I will start canion logging when I enter the freeway and stop it as I exit it. I will sit on GPS speed 100kph not dashboard speed. 3% error.

I just pinpointed the start/stop spots on the map using the app http://www.jurassictest.ch/GR/ I find it is usually quite accurate. using 100kph as the speed over the 38.8km trip. It had my consumption down as 187 whr km and the same trip at 110kmh it was 213whr km. I also did it swapping around the start/stop point both directions to cancel out any slight elevation gain/loss and the numbers were within 1% each way so negligible on what direction you run it.

I would say this trip is a typical freeway. so your looking at 18.7kwh for 100km at 100kph

I will confirm this Sunday

AC motor..can you try the Jurassic pc app pinpointing a section of the freeway you drive regularly in WA and set the speed at 100 kmh and see what the whr-km shows.

Kurt

Last edited by offgridQLD on Fri, 14 Feb 2014, 09:50, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Troglodyte » Sat, 15 Feb 2014, 21:01

A trailer full of batteries is still better than old mate from Mackay driving his Toyota to Brisbane with a dirty great generator in tow !!!

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Post by g4qber » Sun, 16 Feb 2014, 15:53

hi Kurt

for the imiev is it 3 or 4 passengers? does one include driver as a passenger?

http://www.jurassictest.ch/GR/
is great
Last edited by g4qber on Sun, 16 Feb 2014, 19:00, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by offgridQLD » Sun, 16 Feb 2014, 16:04

The numbers I mentioned above where simulated results using online range calculator. I had the fields set to default for the Imiev so just one passenger. The numbers do sounds a little high but typically I have found the calculator to be quite close to real world results.

After lunch I will be doing the same test live in the Imiev with two adults and one child + luggage. It's 35 deg C so I will have the AC on to.

Will post results later today.

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Sun, 16 Feb 2014, 05:10, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by offgridQLD » Sun, 16 Feb 2014, 21:03

Sorry to answer the question . Not sure if the driver is considerd a passenger in the calculator can you set it to zero (not at my PC) number of passengers makes little differances on a flat freeway at a constant speed .

Kurt

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Post by offgridQLD » Sun, 16 Feb 2014, 23:16

Ok I have some consumption data for Imiev constant 100kph run.

The original plan was to log the full freeway run from entry to exit just under 40km total distance. The issue was the first few km on the freeway I couldn't do 100kph very slow due to people rubbernecking to look at a guy on a motorbike making a mobile call Image

So once I passed that silly distraction . I started the canion logging once I reached 100kph and did my best to keep at 100kph for a distance of 30km.

The aircon was on Automatic (climate control setting) two adults + one child and some luggage, I would say same weight as 3 adults. Temp was about 35C outside.

Despite the fact I was in the fast lane my speed varied from 98kph -103kph and a few 130 and speeds in between just to get around people that were dribbling along in the fast lane at 95kph. Fortunately the average over the 30km worked out almost spot on 100kph Image

You can see from this graph my speed over the 30km (very hard to keep a steady 100kph with erratic drivers in both lanes. Don't worry about the average of 103kph as the graph shows a little more than the 30km test stretch.But the average was almost spot on 100kph.

Image[/IMG]




My average speed over the 30km section was 100.5kph -(GPS) speed. Consumption was 122wh/km Pic edited to blank out people in reflection.

Image[/IMG]


So under the above conditions on the Bruce highway. I would consume 12.2kwh to travel 100km distance at 100kph

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Sun, 16 Feb 2014, 12:52, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by jonescg » Mon, 17 Feb 2014, 00:21

That's much better than I have been hearing, but at the same time if there was a 20 km/h headwind you would be using considerably more.

Well done!
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Post by offgridQLD » Mon, 17 Feb 2014, 00:42

That's it we dont get wind that's worth talking about in SEQ. I think if I had a empty or quiet freeway rather than a busy one and could just sit spot on 100kph steady I would use less. But things are unprdictable. I would say today was reasonably typical.

One might think that with a 16kwh battery you could easy do 100km at 100kph based on 122whr/km but you need to keep 20% in reserve for a max 80% DOD so that wipes off 3.2kwh bringing usable capacity to 12.8kwh. So sure you can do 100km at 100kph perhaps even with a little head room if its well planed.

The issue is on a fast charge freeway your only charging to 80% SOC knocking the usable capacity down another 3.2kwh now we are down to 9.4kwh usable capacity after a fast charge.

At 122wh/km with only 9.4kwh to work with your down to 77km range unless you want to dip lower than 80% DOD. I know I don't as a rule of thumb.

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Sun, 16 Feb 2014, 13:51, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by jonescg » Mon, 17 Feb 2014, 00:51

If you leave home with 100% SOC, you can clear 100 km easy. It's the next charge that will be a bit less, but the 80% figure is rather arbitrary - I suspect it stems from the fact that the asymptotic charge/time relationship means after a reasonable amount of time (20-30 min) you're not able to put much more power in than a powerful AC charger could, so you might as well bump off at 30 min, which is typically about 80% SOC. Charging will always be quicker when the battery is more empty.

I played around with the Tesla website where you change a stack of variables like passengers, high speeds, wind, AC, heating... ad the 85 kWh pack still gave at least 250 miles range Image
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Post by offgridQLD » Mon, 17 Feb 2014, 01:02

I wouldn't say you can clear 100km at 100kph easy! Todays numbers show I would have had .6kwh in resurve before 80% DOD.

Sure you could dip lower into that bottom 20% but the fuel light comes on at 80% DOD and I don't like to go lower.

Regarding the Tesla I'm sure you will be pumping a lot more than 12.2kwh into it at the end of the 100km at 100kph, you might need to sit there for double the time before you can head off again

Kurt
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Post by acmotor » Mon, 17 Feb 2014, 06:09

Isn't that 122Wh/km from battery not wall ? Canion logged.
The number we should be talking is 150 to 160 Wh/km from the wall.
The concensus on the US forums is that the iMiEV pack new is 16.5kW/h from the wall for -- to full.
That comes back to 100km at 100km/h
Kurt is right, that is not reasonable expectation as reserve capacity is too low.

I'm all for increased EV range but Chris, if you wish to cater for present EVs then charge stations need to be closer together on 100km/h runs.

BTW, if the Jurassic app doesn't include wind speed and direction then it is out by as much as 50% at 100km/h.
100km/h with 25km/h headwind just isn't the same as a tail wind. You can shift between 100 and 200Wh/km from the wall.
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Post by offgridQLD » Mon, 17 Feb 2014, 12:07

All that measuring from the wall does is take charging losses into consideration.live consumption from point A to point B as a portion of a trip is best measured live from the battery .

So in this instance we were trying to see the consumption rate at 100kph over a set distance to get some kind of average and not to fussed about charging losses as they don't come into play when your sucking the energy out of a limited pack size on the road. Wall to wheel consumption is important but not really useful out on the road it has no impact on range it only has a impact on total efficacy once home.

As an fare fetched example the imiev could have a on board charger that's 50% efficient so judging range on wall to wheel would be way out using 16kwh as battery's capacity.

Regarding the wind yes true but around south east QLD 99% of the time the wind is very insignificant. I know some parts of the country are windy though . Tazy can be a shocker I remember my wife not being able to open the door of our hire car the wind was that strong.

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Mon, 17 Feb 2014, 04:00, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Johny » Mon, 17 Feb 2014, 14:39

offgridQLD wrote: All that measuring from the wall douse is take charging losses into consideration.live consumption from point A to point B as a porsion of a trip is best measured live from the battery .
I agree Kurt. Battery to wheel is a way better way to determine range for a given pack. It also make it easier to compare different brands/types of cars highway efficiency. Also make s it easier to test modifications and/or conditions. 122Wh/km for 100km/h - I'm impressed.

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Post by Johny » Mon, 17 Feb 2014, 14:45

Just reading another thread Kurt where you stated you were running roof racks. I'd forgotten that. Were they on for your 122Wh/km run?

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Post by offgridQLD » Mon, 17 Feb 2014, 15:05

No roof racks were not on for that log.

I was running them all the time for a few weeks and only noticed about 1 or 2% change in whr/km over my regular 104km trip. I think average over the trip home was around 101-103 whr/km and without was 98 100whr km.

the plan was just to keep them on all the time but because I wasn't using them all the time I took them off as there is a slight advantage in wind noise at freeway speeds (not much they are a quiet rack in comparison to most)

Kurt.

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Post by acmotor » Mon, 17 Feb 2014, 16:24

Sorry to disagree guys. Plug to wheel is what counts otherwise you are putting your head in the sand.
You can look at it in another way... The approximately calibrated, as Xavier admits, canion current measurement is a comparative guide on one vehicle and not across all EVs.
In the end, it is plug to wheel that is the universal comparative measurement for EVs. Please don't go down the path of a make and model only measurement. You still need to recharge the battery pack and it is the overall vehicle efficiency that counts.
I understand the desire for an instantaneous measurement. If you need to, then calibrate that up to a real world Wh/km from the plug, then you can compare with other EVs. For instance, it may be that DC fast charging is far more efficient than the on board AC. Another reason the manufacturers fit CHAdeMO and limit the AC charger size.
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Post by Peter C in Canberra » Mon, 17 Feb 2014, 16:56

acmotor wrote: ...Plug to wheel is what counts otherwise you are putting your head in the sand...

I would agree for many purposes but for some questions, such as were being asked here, it is relevant to know the battery to wheel efficiency.
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