i-MiEV Range *no discussion*

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offgridQLD
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i-MiEV Range *no discussion*

Post by offgridQLD » Wed, 23 Oct 2013, 04:13

It dose sound a little low but hard to say as I get the feeling your location is reasonably hilly (cant remember last time I was in Tazy was over ten years ago) but hills eat range and you don't gain back anywhere near the energy in regen as what it takes out to climb them. The lights don't really use anything you will notice.

Perhaps you could look into getting a OBD scanner and running canion app on a android tablet or phone. It would be handy so we could see a detailed log of your trip with elevation, average speed and consumption it would weed out all the variables and soon paint a clear picture on your battery's health.


Kurt

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Post by carnut1100 » Wed, 23 Oct 2013, 05:07

Already got the app, got a power meter on the way (had to get it online as local places only had rubbish..) so I will use that with the FuelLog app to track consumption, and I'm saving for a decent obd unit.
I'm keen to log that data too....

I live at 270m elevation so yeah, hills are a factor.

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Post by acmotor » Wed, 23 Oct 2013, 05:47

Kurt, I must admit to being uncomfortable with some of the data canion logged. Perhaps I'm just suprised at how good the iMiEV battery is.... but the suggestion that the pack voltage (measured where ?) only droops by <10V in 335V with 160A (>3C) load sounds too good to be true. Wiring, terminals, contactors, fuses could almost account for this on their own. Is it really that good ? Image
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offgridQLD
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Post by offgridQLD » Wed, 23 Oct 2013, 14:23

acmotor wrote: but the suggestion that the pack voltage (measured where ?) only droops by <10V in 335V with 160A (>3C) load sounds too good to be true.
Remember the starting voltage before the jump in load to 160A and then measure voltage drop was a voltage measured all ready under load. For example driving at 80kmh 1C load then flooring it creating a 3c load. It didn't jump from resting voltage to 160A load.

I'm use to dealing with lipo battery's on my projects that are rated at up to 90C continuous and 150c burst (though a little optimistic marketing hype) I have tested small cells at 40C so seeing terminals melt into a ball of plasma before the voltage drops.Image If your use to battery's like the yellow (thunder sag!) then I'm sure the Imievs battery's are impressive.

That said by know means am I saying all the data is correct. Though its just relaying what the cars monitoring system is telling it and that system should have a reasonable idea of whats going on. My view is to measure it and try and prove what is accurate or not by cross checking it with other known data and not use the dash displays as any kind reference. As I am sure they are dulled down to be idiot proof or at least simple and conservative. Kind of like trying to use your gas cars fuel gauge to see exactly how many lt of fuel are in your tank, not easy.

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Wed, 23 Oct 2013, 04:08, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Johny » Wed, 23 Oct 2013, 14:42

I wonder if the total pack voltage is the sum of all the cell top measurements. That eliminates wiring, contactors, fuses and interconnects.

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Post by offgridQLD » Wed, 23 Oct 2013, 14:56

It wouldn't surprise me if it was. The app can display individual cell voltage for all 88 cells. Actually it would be crazy not to measure voltage at the cell as total pack voltage isn't really that important its what each cell is doing that the Imiev's monitoring system needs to know and know accurately.

The resting voltage of the pack at the time of the large load would have been around 350v - 355v so the 10% drop to 320v isn't out of the question for good cell. Especially as it was only 3c for a few second peek. Hold it for 5 min and it could be a different story.

Kurt
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Post by Johny » Wed, 23 Oct 2013, 15:01

350V to 320V works out to 0.34 V/cell. With a delta 100A step that's 3.4mΩ. Sounds about right for a good quality 50AH cell.

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Post by acmotor » Wed, 23 Oct 2013, 16:46

I see what you are suggesting johny, I agree with the sum of cell top voltages not pack voltage, however the graph of voltage is clear...

Image

Point of interest is centre of graph above T in time.
The starting voltage at the 160A load point is not 350 or 355V.
If the load (as would occur in driving) had dropped to zero for a moment, the reading did not rise to 355V (the pack is partly discharged after all). So the voltage is the 335V as shown so a drop of 10V during the fun gives 10V/160A = .0625ohm / 88cells = 0.7mohm per cell. Amazing !

Another concern is how does 170A (is it ?) of regen occur. i.e. 3x that displayed on the dashboard energy meter ? Not saying it doesn't, just wanting to check more before getting excited.
I can't feel such change in regen (3x) in driving beyond the dashboard meter.

Ok, so it may all be just so much better than I imagine, but more checks first.
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Post by offgridQLD » Wed, 23 Oct 2013, 17:01

Well you know the 160A load must be reasonably accurate after all it is roughly a 50kw motor. and 320v x 160A roughly 51kw and I had my foot to the floor accelerating to that speed.

Suddenly letting off the accelerator (perhaps even slightly touching the brake I cant remember) at 130+ kmh the inertia of the cars weigh at that speed absorbs a lot of the (seat of the pants feeling of Regen) Regen 170A at 60kmh and your ass will lift of the seat.

I'm not rooting for canion either way. I like discussion that gets to the bottom of things.I will say the dash display doesn't paint the full picture.

Lets take this discussion to the Imiev measured data thread I started.
viewtopic.php?title=imiev-measured-data&t=3870
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Post by g4qber » Sun, 08 Dec 2013, 17:10


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Post by g4qber » Tue, 10 Dec 2013, 20:44

http://www.motoring.com.au/advice/2011/ ... blog-25586

Range reality
88km
Or 65-70km with heater on

2010 imiev
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Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 10 Dec 2013, 20:53

That's funny, I must have ended up with the special addition Imiev model that has a 120km real world range Image


I just got back from a 65km round trip with AC on medium all the way that included some very aggressive driving and a good chunk of freeway. I wasn't holding back in the fast lane and several blasts to 130kph to merge safe onto the freeway.

Used 1/2 the battery capacity on the gauge Image

Kurt
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Post by acmotor » Wed, 11 Dec 2013, 05:01

My best is 87km warm day freeway/country definite strong tail wind no aircond on 8 bars. 8.7kWh from power point to recharge. ( I have done the same run in winter cold with heater on and headwind with only 2 bars left.
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Post by g4qber » Fri, 13 Dec 2013, 16:37

http://www.smartgridsmartcity.com.au/Ab ... hicles.pdf

"
The practical range of an i-MiEV is about 90 kilometres, in fact it is
surprising but most times I drive it other than at freeway speeds, the range works out to be
about 90 kilometres and this matches the advice given in newspaper and other reports,
making Mitsubishi’s 160km range seem unrealistic. If driven at freeway speeds of about
110km/h, the range reduces to about 60 kilometres or less
"

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Post by Johny » Fri, 13 Dec 2013, 16:48

That dude has a steep driveway. A shortcoming of direct drive that acmotor has eluded to as well. Not an issue IMO but it's interesting that someone actually had it stop them.

"Have you found any deficiencies with driving an EV?
Answer:
One interesting deficiency with my EV is that whilst my EV can get up my driveway when moving forward with a full load and its maximum four passengers, it can not do the same in reverse, it is lucky to be able to reverse up the driveway with two passengers. With three passengers the car slows then stops reversing up the driveway."

Hmmm. Does the iMiev limit torque in reverse?
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Post by offgridQLD » Fri, 13 Dec 2013, 17:04

g4qber,
        I'm not sure how they were driving but I have a lot of logged data that would prove the 90km practical 80% DOD? To be to short. I just drove 105km with 22% soc and I was loaded to the hilt and went a bit silly at the end of the trip 95 - 100kph up the range 12% grade. I have logged data and even a video this time to back it up.

How can the freeway range be just 60km or less. It only consumes 100 - 130whr at 100kmh.

Perhaps there is just something wrong with that particular imiev.

Kurt

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Post by Gabz » Fri, 13 Dec 2013, 17:31

i got 95km with 3 bars remaining from full. I'm not that great at recording as much data as you guys.

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Post by offgridQLD » Sat, 14 Dec 2013, 04:14

Reading more of the data in that smart grid trail. I don't agree with any of it. They are quoting 199.59wh km for one driver no passengers and a 80km range Image

Today I reached lands borough from Brisbane 80km distance showing spot on 50% SOC, carrying myself, my daughter, 40lt compressor fridge loaded with food (powered from the traction pack), two 100 meter long rolls of 6mm2 solar cable and one 50m roll of thick 50mm2 cable..its heavy!, two bags of luggage and big bag of non perishable food. 10kg of bbq brickets and few other things I cant remember off hand. It adds up to A lot of extra weight. I just drive at the speed limit and not to aggressively yet I average 100wh - km thats 1/2 what they are suggesting in the report with just one person driving no luggage.

Then there is there data on battery deterioration. 7.5% PA I'm sure there would be a few member here who would have noticed that by now. 2 year old car that was getting 100km safe range now only getting 85km safe range. I don't think so.

Kurt
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Post by Gabz » Sat, 14 Dec 2013, 13:07

Newcastle drivers have lead foots and it's not exactly flat. The ausgrid trial has done a reasonable job in promoting EVs (failed in creating charging points they where all better place) even after the trail all ausgrid employees where eligible to trail the i-miev for 3 months. it was the recommendation of 2 of their employees that help me decide to buy one.
Most complained about the price and no cruise control.

anyway the title of the thread says no discussion. Image

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Post by g4qber » Tue, 24 Dec 2013, 18:44


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Post by g4qber » Tue, 24 Dec 2013, 20:08

147km on range-o-meter

Image

after greenmount hill test.

viewtopic.php?title=imiev-measured-data ... 870#p48315
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Post by g4qber » Mon, 30 Dec 2013, 16:31

meet the turtle - tartaruga
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-IGctenit4

also for the record 220km in imiev
Mitsubishi i-MiEV range record (English sub) - 220 km on a single charge - Autó Pult
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqSLNX3WlHY

love the AC/DC "back in black"
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Post by acmotor » Tue, 31 Dec 2013, 00:38

Johny wrote:
Hmmm. Does the iMiev limit torque in reverse?


MY12 IMiEV does 17km/h max in reverse. I'm not aware of a torque limit. I've backed it up car ramps.
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Post by carnut1100 » Tue, 31 Dec 2013, 18:25

Mine cuts out at 21kmh.
The only torque limit is the same as going forwards, up to 15-ish kmh torque is a bit low, like soft start.

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Post by g4qber » Wed, 01 Jan 2014, 17:09

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/2 ... ort-1-Year#

range reality

R > C + 2E + 5
Where R = Range, C = Commute, E = errand
In other words, your EV needs enough juice to do your daily commute, handle two typical errands, and reserve a cushion of five miles to avoid anxiety on the way home.
Last edited by g4qber on Wed, 01 Jan 2014, 06:10, edited 1 time in total.

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