Elation Bikes - anyone used their kit?

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eLation
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Elation Bikes - anyone used their kit?

Post by eLation »

Hi *Steve*

Thanks for feedback on n'lock.

There should be no slack and agree that maybe bike shop did not tighten correctly; as you have been able to 'fix'.

Cable length is a trade off on practicality.

You can remove the key when lock is engaged. What you do is just file off the lug on the outside of the cyclinder. This will allow you to remove once locked. I suggest only one key so that if you change your view after doing this, you still have the other key to revert to.

Rather than see you go away empty handed for your feedback I will send you a 38T ring to replace the 48T on the motor driven chain ring. This will lower the drive ratio and lift motor speed to match what appears to be your higher than 'normal' pedal cadence.

Would be good if you can post feedback on your thoughts after trialing. As already stated in an early post this was discussed at length by another rider. His results was that the original supplied rings did better suit after some trials. But that was his view, yours may be totally different.

This is the reason I chose to use standard gear rings; the ability to get standard gears and tailor to your needs.

Cheers
Allan

(*steve*)
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Post by (*steve*) »

Thanks Allan. I'll certainly give it a try and give you whatever feedback I can.

dman
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Elation Bikes - anyone used their kit?

Post by dman »

As posted in another forum that seems to have gone quiet.

Regarding the following volt meters, that are cheaper than the Cycle Analyst:
Hobby King Watt Meters

Do they help at all? You really need proper predictive instrumentation.

How do they connect to the elation system if we are interested?

These guys also look to have a nice guage display on some of their bikes:
Ebike guage

The other day for my test I managed to get the red light on the controller, then very soon after the system
shutdown. I would have travelled about 25km's with almost no pedalling (and a very frozen face :) ).

I assume I should just stay in a much lower gear - I was at the upper end of my gear range - but
didn't realise until it was too late. I wasn't far from home, so it was a good test.

Edit: Also, the guide that comes with the kit recommends keeping the throttle at 20-30% for most of the ride. I have found that the motor hardly moves up until the throttle is at 80 - 100%. If I'm not sitting on the bike and testing it, the motor starts to move at about 20-30% throttle.

Edit: Thanks, fixed the links.
Last edited by dman on Mon, 02 Aug 2010, 18:36, edited 1 time in total.
Elation 200w mtb that will allow me to earn a living

(*steve*)
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Elation Bikes - anyone used their kit?

Post by (*steve*) »

Wow! It would really be cool if those URLs weren't abbreviated. Image

edit: Thanks dman
Last edited by (*steve*) on Tue, 03 Aug 2010, 06:50, edited 1 time in total.

(*steve*)
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Post by (*steve*) »

I just discovered that the controller seems to have a significant quiescent current draw on the battery.

Before I installed the kit, the battery was charged and left sitting for 2 weeks or so. At the end of this time is was (as far as I could tell) still fully charged.

Last Thursday I went away, having accidentally left the controller switched on. I noticed it when I went to ride the bike again on Monday. After a few minutes of use the yellow LED came on.

It seems that the yellow light and the LEDs on the end of the pack are set for similar voltages as I noted that one of the red LEDs was extinguished on arrival at work. I only used the system while climbing one particularly large hill, and it was tricky to keep the LED green. By the time I got home a second red LED on the pack was extinguished.

So 2 things:

1) it confirms (if any confirmation was necessary) that the fuel gauge display on the battery pack is only useful near the end of charge on the battery.

2) There is obviously a significant quiescent current drawn by the controller (I would estimate it is in the order of 80 mA -- I may measure it later)

Questions: (things for me to ponder) Does switching off at the battery pack have the same effect as switching off on the throttle control?

(*steve*)
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Post by (*steve*) »

OK:

Battery switch off - 0 mA
Battery switch on, throttle switch off - 27 mA
Battery switch on, throttle switch on - 48 mA

48 ma doesn't sound like much, but it corresponds to 1.25 Watts at the typical open circuit voltage (26.5V)

So it's not surprising that the battery discharges.

I was surprised about the relatively high current even with the throttle switch off. I guess it means I'll be turning off the power at the battery pack from now on.

(*steve*)
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Post by (*steve*) »

Just fitted an alternate ring to the bike. 38T looked very small compared to 48T and I didn't have a chain that would fit without breaking it. Fitted an old 44T ring until I have the time to make the 38T one work properly.

Have to ride 20Km tomorrow, so I'll be able to give it a bit of a go and see how a *slightly* smaller gear works.

pedly
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Post by pedly »

Read on other forum.
Elation V3 to be released at ausbike 21/8, melb showgrounds.

The elation v3 will be fitted to machine, together with a hub motor to measure performance of each type of system.
P

dman
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Post by dman »

Did anyone see this kit on the ABC New Inventors last night?

http://www.abc.net.au/tv/newinventors/txt/s2982354.htm
Elation 200w mtb that will allow me to earn a living

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Johny
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Post by Johny »

dman wrote: Did anyone see this kit on the ABC New Inventors last night?
http://www.abc.net.au/tv/newinventors/txt/s2982354.htm
No, but just watched it. It looks very useful for people who don't want to go the whole electric bike experience. I like it.
Easy link: http://www.abc.net.au/tv/newinventors/txt/s2982354.htm

eLation
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Post by eLation »

Hi All

I just thought I would provide an update after receiving a call today from a person refreshing my memory of a number of accusations made in July.

Firstly, one of the "gentleman" who was quite critical about our stock issues never purchased a system (as he admitted). He made a number of slip ups that left him caught out about his postings. To this day I still dont know his motives, but would not be surprised if linked to an oppposing retailer.

Next the "wet motor affair" copied here for refresher:
"9PSI:
In relation to motor: You say you dried controller, had no effect so then dried motor and it worked (for a while)??? The controller is tightly integrated INTO the motor so I am at a loss to understand how such a feat can be achieved/claimed!!!

If you bothered to contact me and advise I would have said send motor back and I will check and address as required. Since I am sure who you are (I don’t hide behind online name) and so know when you purchased your system, it would be COVERED UNDER WARRANTY. But you have a bee in your bonnet about me not giving you commercial information and so decided to criticize unfairly in public.

Please feel free to email me and I will send a returns form. Once motor is received and reviewed a new one will be sent."

Not a word has been heard from this person since, even though I offered to negate his disassembly of motor. I offered to provide FULL warranty of motor, but he 'decided' not to take it up, after being so confident of his 'findings'.

I hope people who read this posting now read between the lines and see that forums can be as misinformative as they can be infomative.

On a positive note, the version 3 is getting a lot of interest.

Allan
www.elationebikes.com.au

naughtee
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Post by naughtee »

eLation wrote: Firstly, one of the "gentleman" who was quite critical about our stock issues never purchased a system (as he admitted). He made a number of slip ups that left him caught out about his postings. To this day I still dont know his motives, but would not be surprised if linked to an oppposing retailer.


i'm assuming you're referring to earlier posts that i made alan? (with the "gentleman" comment you assume i am male?)

if so, we've already gone over this, here i'll just cut and paste my previous response...

"i am not critical of the elation system, i am critical of my experience dealing with your 'company' (as i said), i commented on the experience i had attempting to buy one, not the system"

i did not "admit" i had not purchased your system, it was stated upfront.

i attempted to acquire one of your units, however after enduring double dealings with your distributor and many wasted months of my time, i was very happy to walk away (on principal) and buy a system from a grown-up business, one that understands the importance of providing a decent service (which there are quite a few).

regarding the repeated (and rather serious) accusation that i have a financial gain by criticising your business... this is simply untrue, i will ask you to stop making those accusations... unless of course, you regard purchasing a system through another retailer as being "linked" to them?

i would be careful inviting people to "read between the lines" as the sometimes rude, indignant and arrogant tone of your posts may come across in a negative light (again, not good for business).



"To this day I still dont know his motives"

we've gone over this as well alan, i'll cut and paste for you from a previous response i have made...

"i only posted this now, as i managed to forget all about the drama until a friend wanted to buy a system and was asking around, it seems a mutual friend of ours has a work buddy who has had a very similar experience to myself, reading through his email it all came back and i felt i should let you know"

simple as that alan, i rely on others to post up their experiences so i can research my purchase decisions online and that was mine.



you claim...

"He made a number of slip ups that left him caught out about his postings."

such as? what do you refer to here alan?

"caught out"...

are you are insinuating i lied about my experiences with your company and i lied to undermine your business to benefit myself somehow... wow!


eLation
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Post by eLation »

I stand by comments made. You deciding to hide behind anonymity makes it so ease to say as you please. It way too easy to do nowadays.

I am glad you at least was able to find an ebike. The more out there the better.


eLation
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Post by eLation »

PS. I meant to add, that I have no further interest in your motives. Time AND SUPPORT has justified my earlier posts. Not to mention the clicks to my site from this forum from these posts :):):)

Enjoy your ride,

(*steve*)
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Post by (*steve*) »

If anyone is interested at all, the slightly smaller 44T ring suits me very well.

I am still going to try the 38T ring, however I've not had time yet :-(

On another issue, I discovered on a long ride with my wife (who doesn't have power assist) that the throttle LED turns off after some period of inactivity. I haven't checked the time it takes to do this, nor what the current drain is when it appears to be off, but I will. I think this feature may have been what fooled me into not turning everything off a couple of months ago.

eLation
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Post by eLation »

Hi Steve

As you are finding with eLation you can further tailor the system to suit specific needs; ie. change ring sizes.

You are right about the throttle LEDs, it goes into stand by mode. To be honest I had forgottone about that feature and did not document it - my bad.

I hope all is well.

Allan
www.elationebikes.com.au

De-Lation
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Post by De-Lation »

Hi Elation,

While I can sympathize with the point you are making and I won't comment on the examples in particular, the main problem is in customer relations. For example, Im my case, and I should stress that was some time back, I was annoyed that when my kit arrived, sans controller.
I understood that these things can happen and left it at that.

My feelings were that I should have been given an apology for the inconvenience and perhaps to have expidited the processing and shipping the missing part with something faster than a four week delivery time.
(What I got was repeated questions to the query of "Shouldn't I have a controller in the kit? I dont seem to have a controller"). If I didn't get a controller, a simple "sorry, well send one to you asap" is a real good start and didn't cost you anything. Sending the package express post might, but hey isn't that fair enough if you're at fault and the customer has been waiting for ages?

As a customer, should not be made to be felt like its my problem which is not conducive to return business or strong endorsement.
I was inspired by the product as seen in new inventors but I was even more shocked when after market support seemed distanced and somewhat lacking in enthusiasm. On a positive note, I've been using my bike for years and I love what it can do (all be it with a home made 20AH liFePo battery)

So yes, in many ways you have a product that sells itself particularly to anyone au fait with bike mechanics but it could sell itself alot more better with just a little bit of sugar, even if it means dealing with "unreasonable customers", your reach will be better still.

Cheers

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Post by naughtee »

thank you DeLation for posting your experience, i know of at least another with a similar experience.

"As a customer, should not be made to be felt like its my problem which is not conducive to return business or strong endorsement. "

you are being very nice here DeLation, not only does allan make you feel like it is your fault, he'll also accuse you of all sorts of nasty business if you attempt to let others know about it (see our previous interaction above).

when asked to substantiate these claims he'll smugly announce he's doing fine from the links from this forum and does not need to.

happy riding, again, for anybody considering an electric bike, i'd recommend looking about for other systems with real support, the elation system is by no means unique (unlike the sales experience ;).

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Post by De-Lation »

Actually I kind of hope that in the long term, elation continues to expand, the reasoning here is that expansion leads to more staff, ultimately, if a good customer policy is in place with people dedicated to handling customer service. Alan could free himself to do what he loves the most; continuing developement of his product, particularly in areas such as improved clutch strength in the chainwheel system (thats my personal area of concern)and better chainwheel rings (because BOTH sets were wrinkled like doyles and I didn't have the stomach to complain and wait for resolution and the metal was well soft enough to de-bend them so that the chain could track).
Hey I've had many a fun journey on my bike and I hope those parts hold out and give me many years more service :) Image

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Post by naughtee »

yes i totally agree, i've already suggested DeFlation hire a sales representative (and some anger management assistance to boot). he should be as far away from the client as possible.

DeFlation bikes must have a decent product to survive such woeful client handling!

i should also thank them as after my experience with them, i simply bought a $500, 500w front wheel hub with lead acid battery system, she worked a treat, after half a year or so, i spent another $500 and upgraded the battery system... which arrived immediately however was faulty. the proprietor helped me ascertain the issue was a damaged battery and simply replaced it no questions asked (not hard is it allan). the system to date is simple, fast and fun.

at the risk of being accused of financial gain by doing so (again), i can happily recommend Matthew Timmins www.solarbike.com.au, honest and professional.

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Post by De-Lation »

Has anyone compared the difference between riding a hub motor vs chain driven? Given a hub system is really only effective along a certain rev range and the obvious torque limitations, in real life how does the experience differ?
One thing I can share is, I recently climbed this hill of biblical proportions which involved gearing all the way down.
This bloke watering his garden laughed and jokingly stated "that's a lot of pedalling for not much movement". I had to laugh, I was pedling away but what I really appreciated was that the motor still hauled my arse over that hill and in the end in no time at all, I was probably moving at around 8kph and it was hauling around 100kgs and that does not include the bike. The other positive was the battery (courtesy of Li Ping) that has so much to give.
My tour that day was only about 40k but it was mostly hills around seacliff (SA) and morphett vale where there are many great bike tracks.
Oh yeah, and still had oodles of juice in that battery. I might need to throw in a few pickies of my rig some time :)

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Post by woody »

I've only ridden hub motor. (Big Crystalyte x5304)

I think with a chain drive and gears the advantage would be you could size the motor to give you the legal amount of power, but with a hub motor to get the torque you need down low to get up hills, you need a huge one, and hence have gone over the legal power limit by 10-20 times...

Also having a 10kg hub affects the dynamics of the bike quite a lot, especially picking up the back wheel.

Disadvantage would be the noise.
Planned EV: '63 Cortina using AC and LiFePO4 Battery Pack

(*steve*)
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Post by (*steve*) »

I've been riding to work and home all winter :-(

Bear in mind that I've not ridden a bike with a hub motor.

My earlier issue with the gearing is (I think) significant with hub motors. You need to ensure that the gearing is appropriate to your riding style.

The original ring that the motor drove was too small. This meant, at my normal cadence, that the motor was well above the speed at which it could offer any real assist.

Switching to a larger ring brought the motor's peak power to the bottom end of my normal cadence range. This means that the motor tends not to give maximum power, but provides more assistance as I slow down. I find this to be a great combination because it sort of automatically provides more assist on hills.

I did promise to try a larger ring again, which should bring the max power more in line with my normal cadence, but I haven't done it yet. The main impediment is that it requires I cut a new chain and I just haven't had the inclination to do that.

The chain drive is certainly noisier. It certainly seems noisy to me while riding. I occasionally meet another rider who has a huge rear hub motor (he normally approaches me from the rear and passes me). I think of him as whispering death because I can't hear anything at all until he says "Hi Steve" (which if I don't see his shadow approaching, scares the crap out of me).

With a chain drive you have one more chain to look after (or to come off -- which has happened only once) and I suspect that you have more issues with water. The additional chain also is another source of grease on your leg because it sticks out further than the main chain.

This winter I have found the major problem to be water. Twice the motor stopped giving any real power and I assume it was due to water getting in. I can't imagine that this is any good for the motor and I am preparing myself for having to replace the motor at some stage due to this.

The combination of motor and battery makes the bike weigh a lot more, but I haven't noticed any real handling differences. I guess I weigh a lot more anyway.

I suffer from Achilles tendonitis, and that is aggravated by anything that places a large load on my Achilles tendons (i.e. riding up steep hills). Essentially it means I have to remain seated or risk a flare-up. The motor allows me to ride, something that was pretty much impossible (unless I wanted to ride like a granny).

If there's someone in Perth who has a bike with a reasonably large (*cough* illegal *cough*) hub motor who'd like to try out something with a chain drive -- I'd be interested in trying out a hub motor...

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Post by De-Lation »

Hehe, while tempting, I'm definitely sticking to the 200W limit and I have to say, using a chain drive system with all the gears available, it has so much to give in terms of torque and speed, It's kind of like driving a truck if one was to use nothing more than a quick push off. you shift through lots of gears but pretty soon find yourself moving at a nice pace.
I do love the design of the BionX system which uses a rear hub motor..pity you can't get them in OZ

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Post by (*steve*) »

Yesterday I discovered a problem that would not affect a hub motor.

My chain broke :(

Fortunately a relatively quick fix once I got home (walking)

The tool kit I carry now includes the chain breaker.

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